BradE

Just any FYI, as of the 2011 model year, Honda is discontinuing Z1 as their ATF spec. The new fluid is ATF DW-1. I haven't seen any specs yet, or if if it's going to be backwards compatible for older Z1 spec'ed vehicles.

Guess they have finally seen the light. I hope this version uses better base stock that can hold up to the heat (Z1 can't) and they don't load it down with tons of friction modifiers.

YeuEmMaiMai

odd that people say that fluid is crap since all of their older transmissions before the newest 4at and all the 5at models have absolutely no issues. No transmission fluid stands up well to heat when it reaches 315F or hotter (as it does in the 5at where the 3rd gear clutch pack has low oil lube anyways......

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

We'll see!

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Amsoil or redline type F FTW

I cant see how honda would not load this fluid with friction modifiers since it seems like they cater to an older crowd who prefers comfort over performance.

slcxow

interesting? you have the source?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Don't know about that as some of the shifts are pretty harsh with the Z1, and some say that aftermarket ATF smooths out the shifts?????

New Automatic Transmission Fluid

A new automatic transmission fluid is used starting in
2011 models. ATF DW-1 is the new automatic
transmission fluid that helps improve low temperature
performance. Do not use any other transmission fluid
in 2011 models.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

^Well I guess it comes down to your definition of smooth. The amsoil type F that Im using right now provides a quicker and snappier shift under wot. During normal cruising and moderate acceleration, the type F fluid performs similar to z1 in that you cant feel the shift occur.

The shifts with z1 seem to become harsh overtime because the fluid breaksdown much more rapidly then amsoil or redline.

speedy4ever

iTrader: (1)

i dont think they are gona discontinue ATF-Z1 just yet. the new ATF DW-1 is intended to be used in 2011 models, but knowing honda they will probably start to phase out ATF-Z1 and start using ATF DW-1 as a replacement.

this is the message honda sent out to dealerships

A new ATF will be available for 2011 models in mid-July. Honda ATF DW-1 is the new transmission fluid that helps improve low temperature performance. Initial shipments will be arriving at your dealership soon. Please begin using ATF DW-1 on all 2011 AT models. For AT models 2010 and older, you can continue using Honda ATF-Z1. Future communications will be sent regarding the supply of ATF-Z1 and ATF DW-1.

VQPower37

interesting ... i might switch back to honda fluid if this new fluid is proven to be as good as the redline d4

BradE

I would seriously doubt it. OEM's aren't going to use a group V ester based ATF, it's simply too expensive.

NetDiver

+1
If Honda wanted to give us high quality fluid, they would have made a deal with Redline, Motul or any other reputable company to begin with, and given us a quality fluid repackaged as OEM. I bet, that the new AT fluid is being reformulated just to save money. Anyway, that's just my opinion.

I hate cars

From Honda's description it sounds like a low viscosity fluid meant to conform to yet another mpg scheme where we trade wear for that extra .00005mpg. It will probably be similar in viscosity as Redline D6 and Dextron VI. Of course its a safe guess it will be loaded with cluch wearing friction modifiers. The only good thing is it will likely require a better base oil to get acceptable wear.

Majofo

Interesting..

I hate cars

Actually, Redline can sit at 315F all day every day with no issues.

The fluid is causing the slippage which is causing the extra heat which is cooking the fluid. It's a viscious cycle.

You're welcome to explain how heat is generated in the clutch packs without slippage occuring in the first place.
Definately one of the low viscosity fluids. I would not want to run one of these in an already touchy Honda 5at. If the new fluid had a lower viscosity when cold but did not thin out as much as it warmed up to give the same final viscosity I would be all for it. But if it's following in GM's DexVI foot steps the final product is going to be thinner at all temps.

About the harsh shifts on Z1. I had them too but they're a different kind of harsh and I recognized it as not good right away. The Z1 gives it a bump shift. The shift begins, the FM loaded fluid does not have the dynamic friction to complete a clean shift so it basically slips as the shift begins and locks in all at once causing a harsh shift.

With the D4 and Racing fluid, you actually don't really feel the shifts. They're very quick and positive. You can watch the tach drop quicker but no actual harshness like you feel with the Z1. It's because the clutch application is more linear throughout the shift instead of slip and then grab. You actually get a quicker shift yet not as harsh as Z1.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Any confirmation on backwards compatibility?

I hate cars

Still waiting on your explanation on heat generated in the clutchpacks. You've been spewing all kinds of crap with absolutely no basis or technical argument for what you say so I'm holding you to it.

fsttyms1

well in the 2g trans problem half the problem is because not enough fluid can get to the clutchpacks there by causing excessive heat and wear. In my experience with my 5 failures fluid type doesnt matter in those situations (i tried amsoil and it lasted less than 20k miles)

fsttyms1

And i am in no way saying the honda fluid is good stuff as i prefer the friction modified syncromesh from GM over the honda fluid in my manual trans

russianDude

from all the googling I did on internet, it seems that this new fluid is mainly to improve MPG in freezing temperatures. It was mostly designed to get better numbers on MPG to compete, no where do they claim that it provides more protection. In fact, usually all these MPG improvements reduce wear protection.

mcflyguy24

Nice 3k posts there russiandude.

russianDude

yeah, can't believe I am still here after 10 years since joining. Next car will be Lexus ES350, I need to diversify

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

manual >....

Legend2TL

I just did a single flush/fill with the new DW-1 in my wife's 2003 Pilot which had previosuly used Z1 for it's fluid. No real change either way noticed. Typically I do a single flush/fill every ~10K miles. Vehicle has 170K miles with 3rd Gear counter shaft recall mod.

I hate cars

Why bother with this crap fluid? If you want one that meets the new viscosity specs but with a far superior base oil and far superior friction characteristics, go with the Redline lightweight racing fluid. Buying any Acura transmission fluid is a complete waste of money.

I hate cars

Hopefully you're talking about an auto?

Legend2TL

I went through the whole aftermarket fluids with my 1989 Legend, all the aftermarket fluids I tried made awful shifts. The locking torque converter also had alot of problems. After going back to Z1 the shifts went back to normal.

Legend2TL

No MT on a Pilot, only AT

I hate cars

I should have read your post more carefully. I missed the Pilot part and just saw your TL in the sig.

In the 3G, there's no reason to ever use Z1. The non FM racing fluid produces better shifts than stock, no TC shudder, and much less wear. Several of us have been doing it for quite some time. I'm on 94,000 total miles and 74,000 with an aftermarket fluid.

Tosh1

Just curious do you prefer Redline over Amsoil? I have been running Amsoil for about 15K now and have been very happy with it trying to keep my 02 TLP from having another transmission breakdown.

It seems like 50/50 with those two companies on preference..

fsttyms1

Trying Different fluids to keep it from failing isnt going to help. Fluid was not the problem, getting an adequate amount to the clutchpacks was the problem. I had 5 failures. One of them i used different fluid (amsoil), had a trans cooler, changed it every oil change still failed.

I hate cars

I ran Amsoil for 50,000 miles in my TL. It's a good trans fluid but I prefer their ATD over the ATF.

The reason for going with Redline is the better base oil and much, much better customer service and tech.

Redline gave more consistant shifts from cold to hot.

Redline will protect better with it's higher shear strength and film strength. The ester base oil will hold up to extreme temps longer.

crazyjkz

A moderator from www.elementownersclub.com posted this which recently came from Honda:

"The latest info from Honda as of September 3rd:

A new ATF is now available for all Honda vehicles. Honda ATF DW-1 was developed with the intention of improving low temperature fuel economy. DW-1 is capable of maintaining a lower viscosity at lower temperatures resulting in less energy required to move the vehicle during the warm-up period. High/normal temperature viscosity remains the same as the current ATF-Z1.

APPLICATION:
Factory Fill - All 2011+ MY Honda vehicles will come with ATF-DW1.
Mixing - Automatic Transmissions currently filled with ATF-Z1 can be filled or topped off with ATF-DW1. Mixing the two fluids will not negatively affect performance.
Storage - Dealers using bulk storage systems can mix the new ATF-DW1 with the old ATF-Z1 if necessary. However it is recommended that the existing stock of ATF-Z1 be depleted before refilling with ATF-DW1 as mixing the two does deplete the performance advantages of the DW-1."


I'm definitely glad to hear that the new DW-1 synthetic ATF will maintain the same viscosity as the Z1 under normal operating temps yet still have a lower viscosity at the lower temps so that it shouldn't increase wear on the clutchpacks and should provide no less overall protection than the Z1. As a matter of fact Honda has already stated:

The key benefits for the Honda ATF DW-1 are:

Low Temperature, Lower Viscosity:

- Better lubrication

- Reduced friction at low temperature

- Improved fuel economy

High Temperature, Stable Viscosity:

- Maintains film thickness

- Improved protection against breakdown

- Full synthetic, high film strength

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Legend2TL

^ Thanks for the info, I did a single drain/fill with the DW-1 a couple months ago and was wondering what the official word was on mixing Z1 with the DW-1. It did cost slightly more per quart (<$1 difference) but for full synthetic it's worth it.

I hate cars

Sounds like a move in the right direction. But still, for that price I would go with a true synthetic. More than likely they're playing the marketing game and it's a grp III dino marketed as a synthetic.

So the positives are higher film strength, better base oil, and improved low temp flow. If only they addressed the FM level. Hopefully the FM level is lower than Z1. Because of the unknowns I will stick with a non FM ester based fluid for about the same price.

It really pisses me off that Honda took all these years to develop a marginally better fluid after all of these failures. And rest assured, this fluid is only out there to help meet stricter fuel economy standards, not to help with the 5at issues. I love how they market it as protecting better when in reality it's to satisfy CAFE.

loulinjai

I just got back from the dealership with 3x 1L bottles of DW-1. The parts guy was nice and we chatted for a few minutes. He told me DW1 is fully capable with Z1 (as already stated).

He told me DW1 is a full synthetic, while the Z1 was a semi synthetic. DW1 has more additives. I haven't done the drain and fill yet, but I don't expect much of a difference in feel with the new fluid.

I noticed that Z1 caused minor vibration when the fluid was cold (when driving within the first few km in -35oC weather). Hopefully DW1 will improve on this issue.

I hate cars

Z1 is a dino. DW1 is a semi syn. I still don't know why anyone would pay the price for this stuff when you could run a real fluid for the same price.

More what additives? I bet the parts guy couldn't tell you to save his life.

Every fluid is compatable with every fluid so no surprise there.

Nothing against you, it's against the parts guy.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

Gm juice FTW

I hate cars

Not in the 5at.

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

I hate cars

That's ok. I just gave someone advice that his problem might be torque convertor realated on a 6mt lol.