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I don't see why the sales numbers for Acura are necessarily a bad thing. Even though it's a down market right now, they can assess what is working, what's not, and what they want to do in the future to change for the better. It is pretty evident that the focus on environment and gas mileage vs. performance has alienated part of the customer base. Value is really the only major marketing point for them at this moment, with the TLX coming in at $5k - $10k under its competition.
I just hope that Acura has a good check and balances system; that they don't live in a bubble in Torrance, believing that everything they design is gold. I think Ikeda will get it back on track by 2020.
Unfortunately Acura embraces change with all the speed of a government bureaucracy. It only took a decade to listen to customers and journalists, and forums and remove the hideous beak. The MMC might be just enough if they include a hybrid and sports model and update the navigation and perhaps improve the rest of the interior although the exterior is just lipstick on a pig. (and poorly applied lipstick by someone with a bad case of the shakes on a really bumpy road).
They are in SoCal so your criticism isn't allowed in their "safe space" as those are considered microaggressions. They are giving Marek a trophy today for showing up.
I just hope that Acura has a good check and balances system; that they don't live in a bubble in Torrance, believing that everything they design is gold. I think Ikeda will get it back on track by 2020.
Too late - that bubble formed almost 10 years ago & has had a lot of time to solidify.
Well to be fair the TLX sold more cars than the Lexus IS which sold 1423 units.
I guess then to be fair we could look at Mercedes which sold 6,453 c class cars is a hell of a lot more than TLX - I'm not sure where this logic(?) is going but I'll play along. Just waiting for the usual "in this economy" or sure but submergible lotus cars are at an all time low...
Yeah....I know. I just hate it when people compare sales numbers and ignore that either the cars don't match or they trade one for two...ie....TLX = TL (and forget that it also replace TSX). I am like you, I hate the sales numbers game. The only truth is that Acura sales are down.
The idea is that both Lexus ES and IS were down 35% ish.
The ES, IS and TLX are unique in their own ways, but are also competing within the same market at around the same price level, with the Lexus being slightly more expensive.
I believe the IS was brought into the discussion because for many, that's the kind of car that people want the TLX to be like - RWD, bold styling, nice fit and finish, high quality interior, turbocharged engine, smooth 8AT, good features, cheaper than German cars, better handling than 3 series, Japanese reliability, etc. It checks a lot of boxes.
ES is a very nice car on the inside. I'd consider one if it had AWD. I wasn't too impressed by the IS. Lots of stitched leather but the door looked like it came straight out of a Camry. Plus I despise that Enform system with the whole mouse thing and no dealers option their inventory with the Mark Levinson sound system so they all have the base speakers.
The 6-speed in the IS300 seemed very long on the tooth, and you can tell that when you drive it. Seems like the car would really benefit from the 8spd in the 200t. But the looks of that car in F-Sport are awesome IMO, it's polarizing to some but I love how bold it is and really stands out from the competition.
Tested an IS 200t F Sport today. While the computer speedometer is cool and everything, I was really disappointed with the interior and the lack of memory settings. It was significantly less comfortable than the A4 I tested.
Another month, another drop in sales. The MDX is also starting to take a large hit, no longer the big kid on the block with the Pilot now around. The ILX is a lost cause, too much better value out there!
Yeah, but you're not looking at the whole picture. Many other manufacturers sedans that are in the same segment have suffered for another month also. The trend, at least to me, points to mid size sedans suffering as a whole. Not all. But many.
Also, the TLX is getting "old". As such, that's why the MMC version is coming out in a few months.
This downward trend for the TLX seems to follow a rather normal pattern, at least to me.
Another month, another drop in sales. The MDX is also starting to take a large hit, no longer the big kid on the block with the Pilot now around. The ILX is a lost cause, too much better value out there!
Eventually, the RLX will be Acura's best selling sedan!
The MDX is getting a little long in the tooth and is in a fiercely competitive segment; one in which a three row Lexus RX is on the horizon. Note: while some may crosshop the Pilot, that and the MDX are dynamically different vehicles; Pilot will definitely impact Odyssey sales though.
I just hope that Acura doesn't screw up the redesigned 4G MDX.
Yeah, but you're not looking at the whole picture. Many other manufacturers sedans that are in the same segment have suffered for another month also. The trend, at least to me, points to mid size sedans suffering as a whole. Not all. But many.
Also, the TLX is getting "old". As such, that's why the MMC version is coming out in a few months.
This downward trend for the TLX seems to follow a rather normal pattern, at least to me.
Soory.
This. No matter your feelings about the TLX, you have to look at the segment as a whole.
Overall SUV sales are up, but car sales seem to be declining unless an all new model (not mid cycle refresh) was released which almost always helps sales. With gas prices where they are, and SUVs getting as fuel efficient as cars were years ago, the shift is inevitable.
Yeah, SUV's are doing well but month to month it looks like all the TLX "competitors" auto sales increased over January & many over February last year. The Q-50 moved 1000 more units than the TLX in February & even the 4 series continued to outsell the TLX.
Think Honda really needs to get the new 2018 out & perhaps do an early release like they did with the old one especially if they have more to offer with a S model..
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-03-2017 at 12:39 PM.
I think the best comparison would be Accord, Toyota Camry Q-50, 3 and 4 series, Lexus ES 350 and the Mercedes C - I'd say these are the most comparable units. There is no way to match the exact price but these tend to attract comparable buyers. Comparing sales of the Acura to a BMW 7 series or a Hyundai Elantra or a Rolls Royse. Sure they are all sedans but not exactly the same niche. I'll be glad to post the actual comparison of those but first I'll wait for someone to say I'm considering a F22 instead of a TLX so your comparison is too much of a generalization...
Wasn't really curious about the TLX, had a feeling that it would stay the same. All of Acura's sedans are old, need major new blood!
The thing that surprised me is the MDX, it's new and in a hot segment. The RDX is older but doing ok. Go figure lol
Honda had production capacity issue as the MDX, Odyssey, RIdgeline, and Pilot were all coming from the Alabama plant. In January, Honda announced that the MDX will be moved to the East Liberty plant, joining the RDX and CRV. I'm not sure if the move has been made yet, but my understanding is that the Alabama plant couldn't produce all these vehicles fast enough.
Also, while the MDX is one year newer than the RDX, it's still the same basic design since May 2013...which is almost 4 years ago.
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Yeah, SUV's are doing well but month to month it looks like all the TLX "competitors" auto sales increased over January & many over February last year. The Q-50 moved 1000 more units than the TLX in February & even the 4 series continued to outsell the TLX.
Think Honda really needs to get the new 2018 out & perhaps do an early release like they did with the old one especially if they have more to offer with a S model..
I'm not sure about "all" the TLX competitors enjoyed increased sale...unless we are excluding BMW 3 series, Lexus IS, Cadillac ATS, and Lexus ES.
Yeah, SUV's are doing well but month to month it looks like all the TLX "competitors" auto sales increased over January & many over February last year. The Q-50 moved 1000 more units than the TLX in February & even the 4 series continued to outsell the TLX.
Think Honda really needs to get the new 2018 out & perhaps do an early release like they did with the old one especially if they have more to offer with a S model..
Not sure where you are getting your numbers, but despite what you imply, TLX sales are also up in Feb (400+) compared to January just like with the "competitors" who were either static, or up as well. Also most of the competition (C, 3, ES, IS, ATS) is NOT up over Feb last year, but down just as the TLX is which is what myself, Taco, and many articles out there are saying regarding sedan sales in the class. The exceptions seem to be the all new A4, and the Q50 which is selling quite well.
The 3 series, and C Class rule the roost worldwide in the class. No one needs to be approaching their numbers here or abroad to be considered selling well. 4 series sales numbers are about as relevant as X3 sales numbers.
3 Series sold 5024 in FEB 2016 & 5094 in Feb 2017 according to good car bad car.. I included the 4 series because historically going back to when the 3 series was created it was part of the 3 series till BMW made a marketing decision to split off the 2 door cars into even numbers series & 4 door cars into odd number series. Granted the 4 series pricing starts about $10K over the TLX but that was true of the coupe & convertible even when they were included as part of 3 series. You can exclude them it you want because there is a hole in the TLX product line with no TLX 2 door.
As for what other cars I chose to include they are labels that get the most play here when someone moves on & is looking at cars. Cars like the ATS get very little to no mentions here while Audi & Infiniti do. If you want to throw in the C class no problem the main 'C' is up over January & up over FEB 2016, The CLA is up from JAN & up over last FEB
The 3 series is up 70 cars or 1.4% while the C Class is up a whopping 43 cars or 0.7% Most people who aren't arguing for the sake of arguing would say the segment for the most part is down, or flat as I did (maybe I wasn't clear referencing the Feb stats which I had already seen) The A4 and Q50 are very much higher, but everything else is pretty much following sedan sales in general (down or static) which for some reason you don't want to acknowledge.
The 3 series is up 70 cars or 1.4% while the C Class is up a whopping 43 cars or 0.7% Most people who aren't arguing for the sake of arguing would say the segment for the most part is down, or flat as I did (maybe I wasn't clear referencing the Feb stats which I had already seen) The A4 and Q50 are very much higher, but everything else is pretty much following sedan sales in general (down or static) which for some reason you don't want to acknowledge.
Up is up & down is down. Statement was on month to month. Speaking of down is down the TLX dropped a whopping 620 cars Feb to Feb.to 2671. If I was in the business think my druthers would be to be up 1.4% & sell 5094 instead of down 21% selling 2671 cars.
The segment may be down but some vendors are weathering it a lot better than others. No matter how many ways it gets skinned ACURA has still not figured out how to sell that is basically a good car. I hope they don't just bury their heads in the sand with a "the whole segment is down so what do you expect from us."
6 out of 10 models experienced sales decline vs Feb 2016.
Sorted by biggest losers.
Nice work! This was very representative of the competitors - instead of just saying the whole market or yes but if you compare it to this one car or that one car. I think the 4 series would be a competitor but I could be wrong. Likewise although they aren't in the same "class" I think the accord and camry might be cars people in the TLX group might consider as an alternative. I realize there are going to be people who consider a ford F150 or a Winnebago but probably these would be more outliers whereas the others probably a decent percentage might be in that group.
Didn't expect to see the IS that low. The ATS is really dying.
Cadillac is on its way out. It's the anti-Acura. Acura only does small trucks (and the TLX is a fine offering). Cadillac's small trucks are all sub-standard. They make solid sedans, but no one buys them because that market simply isn't as important in North America.
Funny thing is... I think Cadillacs are good cars. They look nice and they have a lot going for them. The issue? Their pricing. They are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. I have no idea why GM felt the need to jack their prices up to BMW/MB levels, for a brand that isn't selling at BMW/MB levels.
In Canada, a loaded CTS-V can break 110k. A loaded ATS-V can break 95k. That is insane. In looking at dealer inventories, almost none of them are base models either. Most were optioned out in the upper middle, to upper upper range. No wonder people aren't buying.
Also, someone on AZ recently bought a very nice ATS, at a fraction of what a new one was going for. It had almost no miles on it, yet was discounted a good 45%. If that isn't a good indication that Cadillacs are overpriced, I don't know what is.
Nice work! This was very representative of the competitors - instead of just saying the whole market or yes but if you compare it to this one car or that one car. I think the 4 series would be a competitor but I could be wrong. Likewise although they aren't in the same "class" I think the accord and camry might be cars people in the TLX group might consider as an alternative. I realize there are going to be people who consider a ford F150 or a Winnebago but probably these would be more outliers whereas the others probably a decent percentage might be in that group.
Thanks! Yea, when you look at this, the TLX is doing ok. But I think Acura is also putting quite a bit of money on the hood. May be someone can confirm.
BMW decided the 4 series is its separate model. But then, when you look at my list, you'd notice almost everyone is doing that too. For instance, A4/A5, IS/RC, Q50/Q60. Then you've cars like the TLX, S60, ES, and MKZ that don't have a coupe version.
Originally Posted by Saintor
Didn't expect to see the IS that low. The ATS is really dying.
Yea, the IS has been doing quite poorly for months now. And ATS...just see below...lol.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
Funny thing is... I think Cadillacs are good cars. They look nice and they have a lot going for them. The issue? Their pricing. They are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. I have no idea why GM felt the need to jack their prices up to BMW/MB levels, for a brand that isn't selling at BMW/MB levels.
In Canada, a loaded CTS-V can break 110k. A loaded ATS-V can break 95k. That is insane. In looking at dealer inventories, almost none of them are base models either. Most were optioned out in the upper middle, to upper upper range. No wonder people aren't buying.
Also, someone on AZ recently bought a very nice ATS, at a fraction of what a new one was going for. It had almost no miles on it, yet was discounted a good 45%. If that isn't a good indication that Cadillacs are overpriced, I don't know what is.
Yea, their MSRP is pretty crazy. But Caddy also offers incentives. But it's probably not quite enough....
6 out of 10 models experienced sales decline vs Feb 2016.
Sorted by biggest losers.
Since this site has a number of active TLX fans it would have been nice to have added the Canadian numbers in. TLX was up in Canada in Feb 2017. When added to the US numbers the TLX had 2671 cars sold. That adds 11% to the TLX Feb number
Last edited by BEAR-AvHistory; 03-07-2017 at 07:26 PM.
Funny thing is... I think Cadillacs are good cars. They look nice and they have a lot going for them. The issue? Their pricing. They are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overpriced. I have no idea why GM felt the need to jack their prices up to BMW/MB levels, for a brand that isn't selling at BMW/MB levels.
In Canada, a loaded CTS-V can break 110k. A loaded ATS-V can break 95k. That is insane. In looking at dealer inventories, almost none of them are base models either. Most were optioned out in the upper middle, to upper upper range. No wonder people aren't buying.
Also, someone on AZ recently bought a very nice ATS, at a fraction of what a new one was going for. It had almost no miles on it, yet was discounted a good 45%. If that isn't a good indication that Cadillacs are overpriced, I don't know what is.
Yeah, but GM is always discounting those cars. Only the clueless walk in there and pay full price. Even when the TLX was new, they were discounting the ATS by several thousand off sticker from what I recall. This was back around 2014, and I thought I remember de Nysschen saying he wanted to end the crazy discounting Caddy/GM was known for because a luxury mark shouldn't be discounting like that. I still love the way that car looks, though. I almost bought one.
I believe TLX numbers aren't good even though some of the competitors are experiencing low numbers as well. The issue is that Infiniti always sold less cars than Acura in NA. This year, Infiniti is beating Acura by pretty big margin. This is alarming and not a good sign at all.
What I find even more alarming from Acura is their pure sales tactics. A fellow member, donkiboy, reported that prices have increased mid-cycle and incentives decreased for the 2017 TLX. I don't know about you but if a model is not selling well and will be soon replaced with a MMC, I'd expect discounts to accelerate. Why the bloody hell would somebody pay more for new VS used if nothing changed from 2016 to 2017. The competition is heating up and Acura is slowing down. I see even less ads on TV from them now.
I just noticed the A5 Sportback, beautiful car and well worth a look in my books ... not to mention the MASSIVE amount of new/refreshed sports sedans to be released soon. Acura has no more mojo for people to come in for now, maybe SUVs if some don't know about the new CR-V and Pilot lol.
Honestly, the Q50 has had some fairly aggressive incentives over the past year or so. Although nearly a year ago now, my local Infiniti dealer quoted me some numbers on a Q50 AWD (3.7) which was nearly in line with that of the 16 TLX V6 FWD that I ultimately picked up. Acura definitely wasn't giving me similar numbers for the SH-AWD model.
Yeah, but GM is always discounting those cars. Only the clueless walk in there and pay full price. Even when the TLX was new, they were discounting the ATS by several thousand off sticker from what I recall. This was back around 2014, and I thought I remember de Nysschen saying he wanted to end the crazy discounting Caddy/GM was known for because a luxury mark shouldn't be discounting like that. I still love the way that car looks, though. I almost bought one.
We did buy one - 2014 ATS 2.0T Luxury - mainly the wife's car. Paid nowhere close to MSRP and think it's one terrific automobile, wife absolutely loves it. However, as has been mentioned, sales never were great and resale value also not great. Doesn't matter much to us since we keep our cars for at least six years.
I guess we just have a knack for buying non-popular cars. We don't care much what others do, we usually buy what makes sense to us.
Up is up & down is down. Statement was on month to month. Speaking of down is down the TLX dropped a whopping 620 cars Feb to Feb.to 2671. If I was in the business think my druthers would be to be up 1.4% & sell 5094 instead of down 21% selling 2671 cars.
The segment may be down but some vendors are weathering it a lot better than others. No matter how many ways it gets skinned ACURA has still not figured out how to sell that is basically a good car. I hope they don't just bury their heads in the sand with a "the whole segment is down so what do you expect from us."
Thank you for stating the obvious. However the numbers, and this are a FAR, FAR cry from
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
it looks like all the TLX "competitors" auto sales increased over January & many over February last year. .
but keep on arguing whatever it is you are trying to argue
but keep on arguing whatever it is you are trying to argue
OK will do. Bottom line is the TLX numbers suck, don't look to be getting any better. So far HONDA does not look to be doing anything about it.
Remember the days when the numbers were posted & we talked about how bad the TL was beating everybody in the segment instead of now how the numbers really don't suck that bad compared to Cadillac?
OK will do. Bottom line is the TLX numbers suck, don't look to be getting any better. So far HONDA does not look to be doing anything about it.
Multi-part causes:
1. Not enough separation from Accord, which is one of its main competitors.
2. Many cars in this segment look alike; not enough styling dynamics.
3. TLX is underpowered.
4. Acura needs a clear vision of who it wants to be and stop being a chameleon in the sun; all things to everyone.
Sort those out and Acura will lead this class of vehicle.
02-02-2017, 10:05 AM
. We don't care much what others do, we usually buy what makes sense to us
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