Honda: Development and Technology News
#321
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
What is wrong with you people?
I have found in the past half hour IRREFUTABLE PROOF that there is an apparent problem with Nissan's engines. I could cite sources, but I would rather jsut tell you how your EGO is so big (it may even surpass mine! <GASP!>) that you fail to accept this IRREFUTABLE PROOF and/or you failed to do your research CAREFULLY.
READ EVERY WORD..., my SUPERIOR intellect and EGO prevents me from being a "fanboi", especially since I am OBVIOUSLY not biased, and CAN support my statements with unbiased sources, but I won't do you a favor and provide these sources...DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK!!!
.
Besides, I just violated parole and might be
LOCKED DOWN!
mrdeeno, I am going to print out many of your posts from this and the other thread that was closed and distribute them to my colleagues. You will be immortalized as an exemplar of "myopic IQ megalomania" or in colloquialism "a complete asswipe."
Remember, dumb is dumb but dumb doesn't know it.
#322
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Hey, all I know is that we were having a good discussion for awhile.
Then mr. "I AM SOOOO SMART AND YOUR EGO IS TOOOOO BIG AND I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BENEATH ME" comes along and everything goes to shit.
And if you were over at the RL threads at all, this is not the first time.
Yet he's the one reporting ME to mods and saying things like
And this with only 24 posts under his belt!
I'm all for bringing this thread back on topic because we were having a good discussion before...but this guy's posts is just too hilarious to not bash.
Then mr. "I AM SOOOO SMART AND YOUR EGO IS TOOOOO BIG AND I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BENEATH ME" comes along and everything goes to shit.
And if you were over at the RL threads at all, this is not the first time.
Yet he's the one reporting ME to mods and saying things like
And this with only 24 posts under his belt!
I'm all for bringing this thread back on topic because we were having a good discussion before...but this guy's posts is just too hilarious to not bash.
Second, every single person in this thread can go to the other thread that was closed and review your comments and my comments and come to the same conclusion that everyone in that other thread came to. That YOU started the personal attacks and not-so-subtle innuendo. Some of the other people were just trying to be polite to your ascerbic behavior. And YOU KNOW THIS. Yet you continue to purposefully obfuscate the truth, which is also your nature. Checkmate.
mrdeeno, I'm curious, what is your definition of low character? Does it involve an aspect of dumb and/or an aspect of conniving? Mousetrap.
#323
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Hey, all I know is that we were having a good discussion for awhile.
Then mr. "I AM SOOOO SMART AND YOUR EGO IS TOOOOO BIG AND I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BENEATH ME" comes along and everything goes to shit.
And if you were over at the RL threads at all, this is not the first time.
Yet he's the one reporting ME to mods and saying things like
And this with only 24 posts under his belt!
I'm all for bringing this thread back on topic because we were having a good discussion before...but this guy's posts is just too hilarious to not bash.
Then mr. "I AM SOOOO SMART AND YOUR EGO IS TOOOOO BIG AND I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BENEATH ME" comes along and everything goes to shit.
And if you were over at the RL threads at all, this is not the first time.
Yet he's the one reporting ME to mods and saying things like
And this with only 24 posts under his belt!
I'm all for bringing this thread back on topic because we were having a good discussion before...but this guy's posts is just too hilarious to not bash.
Anyways, yes it's tempting. But if you continue, it'll just keep going and going (until someone gets banned ), or worse, the thread gets locked. Please think of the children.
#324
Originally Posted by phile
@ you getting reported
Anyways, yes it's tempting. But if you continue, it'll just keep going and going (until someone gets banned ), or worse, the thread gets locked. Please think of the children.
Anyways, yes it's tempting. But if you continue, it'll just keep going and going (until someone gets banned ), or worse, the thread gets locked. Please think of the children.
#325
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Originally Posted by phile
@ you getting reported
Anyways, yes it's tempting. But if you continue, it'll just keep going and going (until someone gets banned ), or worse, the thread gets locked. Please think of the children.
Anyways, yes it's tempting. But if you continue, it'll just keep going and going (until someone gets banned ), or worse, the thread gets locked. Please think of the children.
Aiight, he's not worth it.
But I DO have to point out that he's taking my sarcastic comments seriously, which makes it even funnier
#326
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
mrdeeno, I am going to print out many of your posts from this and the other thread that was closed and distribute them to my colleagues. You will be immortalized as an exemplar of "myopic IQ megalomania" or in colloquialism "a complete asswipe."
Remember, dumb is dumb but dumb doesn't know it.
dude, no way! I get to be a celeb!
ALL SHALL BOW DOWN TO ME!!!
Last edited by mrdeeno; 04-13-2006 at 07:08 PM.
#327
Originally Posted by mrdeeno
Hey, all I know is that we were having a good discussion for awhile.
Then mr. "I AM SOOOO SMART AND YOUR EGO IS TOOOOO BIG AND I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BENEATH ME" comes along and everything goes to shit.
And if you were over at the RL threads at all, this is not the first time.
Yet he's the one reporting ME to mods and saying things like
Then mr. "I AM SOOOO SMART AND YOUR EGO IS TOOOOO BIG AND I DON'T NEED TO EXPLAIN ANYTHING TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE BENEATH ME" comes along and everything goes to shit.
And if you were over at the RL threads at all, this is not the first time.
Yet he's the one reporting ME to mods and saying things like
I think the continuing problem for you, mrdeeno, is that earlier you assumed I was just another idiot but now you realize definitively the pecking order of where my cognitive abilities are relative to yours. I have accused you of unfounded bluff and fluff arrogance, and even you understand this to be true of yourself. Because it is a fact that I am smarter than you, which you now realize, I can then reassure you that my responses to you (and Steve) are objective and justified and have nothing to do with my Ego. Yes, I may have an Ego, but I haven't subjected you to it and I haven't used it in inappropriate ways. I have merely subjected you to objective truth.
I'm enjoying this thread a lot because I can tell the moderator knows your ways very well. I'm here to get some good information and have some friendly conversation without any ulterior motives. I'm not here to get subjected to your Nissan fanboi nature and vested interests, which you clearly know you possess.
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-13-2006 at 07:28 PM.
#331
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
This is a mistruth.
Witness a C5 LS1 6spd Vette which gets 22 mpg overall with 360 lb-ft of torque on tap. An S2000 with 200 lb-ft less torque still only gets 22 mpg overall. Or more recent, a VW GTI with the 2.0T FSI engine. It's conservatively rated at 200hp/207tq and gets 27 mpg combined. A new Civic Si is rated at 197hp/139tq and gets 26 mpg overall. The VW/Audi engine is also a bit cleaner. It makes ULEV II in Cali spec, vs LEV II for the Si.
Witness a C5 LS1 6spd Vette which gets 22 mpg overall with 360 lb-ft of torque on tap. An S2000 with 200 lb-ft less torque still only gets 22 mpg overall. Or more recent, a VW GTI with the 2.0T FSI engine. It's conservatively rated at 200hp/207tq and gets 27 mpg combined. A new Civic Si is rated at 197hp/139tq and gets 26 mpg overall. The VW/Audi engine is also a bit cleaner. It makes ULEV II in Cali spec, vs LEV II for the Si.
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
T The unfortunate result of tuning engines for maximum peak horsepower at high RPM is that you tradeoff torque and powerband characteristics in the lower 75% of the rev band where you spend 99% of your time driving. If you have a close ratio manual tranny and a race track where you can drive 9/10ths or faster then this sort of all-out peak HP powerband is fine. But on the streets and even 1/4 mile tracks it's far from optimal, which answers the question above as to why Honda is really the only company out there that tunes their engines the way they do.
#332
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
So why do we tend to compare Honda engines based on HP rather than displacement? First, HP is ingrained into our society (just like standard scores for the SAT are ingrained into our brains when we should instead be focused on percentile scores). Second, and very importantly, within each market segment, Honda puts in engines with less displacement than competitors in that segment. People are really focused on comparing cars (e.g., RL vs. GS vs. M) and price, and when you do that you're forced to compare an Acura 3.5L V6 to a 4.3L V8 and 4.5L V8. When you do this, and considering Honda pushes the peak HP for any given displacement to at least close to that of their competitors' HP, you're going to see an even greater discrepancy in torque. So Honda engines, for a given market segment) will appear to be close to the lead (but never quite there) in HP and quite a bit behind in torque..
I've seen people be taking in by the lawn mover hp wars, where they buy the biggest hp engine they can find, but don't seem to even think if there is any difference in the usable torque band...
Hopefully with honda's newly developed v6/v8 engines, we'll start to see an increase in displacement AND torque...
EDIT: I've always noted that BMW's seem to be biased towards torque rather then hp... the opposite of honda's fixation with hp rather then torque.
#333
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Originally Posted by GreenMonster
So why does honda tune their engines so that max hp is at a very high RPM and tradeoff low end torque ??
Most of their engines have sufficient torque/hp in real world normal driving conditions.
#334
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Originally Posted by GreenMonster
So if it's so easy for chevy to do that with an ancient pushrod design, then how come Honda can't do the same ?? One would think that honda could do better then chevy at least when it comes to engine design Gotta be a reason for it.
Another thing to think about is that these companies have different goals and strategies. One company try to be a HP/Torque/Displacement king, while another tries to be the most technologically advanced, even if there may not be real world differences.
OT: Ahhh, beer was good. What time is it now? Quarter 'til sleep!
#335
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
So if it's so easy for chevy to do that with an ancient pushrod design, then how come Honda can't do the same ?? One would think that honda could do better then chevy at least when it comes to engine design Gotta be a reason for it.
Originally Posted by GreenMonster
So why does honda tune their engines so that max hp is at a very high RPM and tradeoff low end torque ??
I remember thinking in the early 90's, with Honda engine technology being superior, how would the other carmakers, especially American carmakers, compete against Honda. Well we now know the answer is to increase HP by adding displacement or FI. Almost the entire industry except for Honda has jumped on this bandwagon. Even Mazda has turbocharged its MZR inline-4 and inserted it across the lineup in the Mazdaspeed 6, Mazdaspeed 4, and CX7.
So what's Honda doing? I think they're just biding their time patiently BECAUSE they can afford to do it. However, I sense Honda understands the HP war isn't going to end any time soon and will in fact get even worse and that things aren't the same as they were back in the 90's. This time, the rest of the industry has found an effective crack or niche. Problem for the rest of the industry is increasing displacement and employing FI isn't really about technology; if they can use that, so can Honda. One indication that Honda realizes the stakes are different this time around is they are finally using FI and a V8 seems like a certainty. But even though Honda will probably bring out a V8, I bet they will keep the displacement a little bit lower than competitors (and a lot lower than the American companies). I predict Hondas will soon have HP at the top of each class while appeasing their engineering Ego by achieving it with less displacement. Why do I think Honda is finally going to jump into the HP game? Not because of Nissan but because of Toyota. Honda is absolutely obsessed with the unstoppable Toyota machine. To Honda, Toyota is the evil empire and Honda will not and can not let Toyota get any farther away.
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-14-2006 at 07:46 AM.
#336
Senior Moderator
I can see the "doing more w/ less" philosophy at work... Like you said, honda resisted the jump to a v6 in the accord back in the 90's, and it looks like the same forces were at work that discouraged honda developing V8's (for street legal vehicles) until now...
I kinda like the idea of a small displacement v8.... The ridgeline will need a v8 eventually anyways, so developing a v8 makes sense.
Oh, and on the toyota front, maybe the rumors of a "new" supra might push honda development of these new v6/v8 engines further...
Oh, and for those of you who didn't know, Soichiro Honda used to work for Toyota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda#Company_history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soichiro_Honda
I kinda like the idea of a small displacement v8.... The ridgeline will need a v8 eventually anyways, so developing a v8 makes sense.
Oh, and on the toyota front, maybe the rumors of a "new" supra might push honda development of these new v6/v8 engines further...
Oh, and for those of you who didn't know, Soichiro Honda used to work for Toyota
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda#Company_history
Soichiro Honda began by manufacturing piston rings in November 1937. He quickly became a sub-contractor to Toyota, and then expanded into other engine parts.
in 1937 he moved into piston-ring manufacture, setting up Tokai Seiki Heavy Industry (TSHI). In 1948 Honda sold TSHI to Toyota for 450,000 yen (worth about US$1 million in 2003 terms).
#337
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
Why do I think Honda is finally going to jump into the HP game? Not because of Nissan but because of Toyota. Honda is absolutely obsessed with the unstoppable Toyota machine. To Honda, Toyota is the evil empire and Honda will not and can not let Toyota get any farther away.
it's bcus of nissan...i also thought toyo was the one that said they weren't going to get in the hp war
btw, i think its a lil too late for honda to catch toyo
#338
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
really? why do u think toyota jumped in the HP game?
it's bcus of nissan...i also thought toyo was the one that said they weren't going to get in the hp war
btw, i think its a lil too late for honda to catch toyo
it's bcus of nissan...i also thought toyo was the one that said they weren't going to get in the hp war
btw, i think its a lil too late for honda to catch toyo
In my gut, I feel it may be too late for Honda to catch Toyota, but that's how it always is for the tiny little human brain. Precedence allows my thinking to go beyond my tiny little box. Precedence tells me that I grew up in the 70's and 80's thinking Russians were the devil but now we love them, that the POS Hyundai Excel that you could buy for $4000 in the 80's has turned into a bunch of cars that most people might actually be proud to own (maybe not quite yet), the Japanese economic machine actually buckling, and Chrysler and Nissan meeting disaster and rebounding (Chrysler actually twice). Even back in the late 80's, I predicted China might one day become the world's super power while others laughed at me. The truth is the US gov't is most worried about China today. Anything can happen, especially if you're super competent. If someone's going to catch Toyota, I'll put my money on Honda instead of Nissan. Nissan has too many cracks right now as a result of expanding so fast and stretching its limited resources that it may catch up to them soon (from recent articles btw, not from my ass).
#339
Three Wheelin'
I've actually read this whole thread (dang) so let me see if I can confuse it further...
I'll admit, from the get go, that I'm a Honda fan to begin with, but I'm also a realist. It just doesn't make sense that Honda would resort to VTEC and assorted engine engineering magic in order to get a similar amount of power, as for example Chevy, who resorts to among other things the simple trick of bumping up displacement to get more hp (for EXAMPLE, an LS2 in the 'vette).
Now I do know (and one of the reasons I will be a Honda fan for life) is that the company is 110% commited to being the most environmentally friendly auto company out there. And I think that herein lies the reasons as to why they continue to engineer and reengineer small displacement engines rather than just stick a super large V8 with uber tall gearing in an S2000 and call it a day.
I also think that another reasons is vehicle dynamics, but I will be honest and say that I'm treading on risky ground with this one, since I'm not too familiar with the size(dimensions)/weight of a F20C (00-03 S2000) vs. an LS2 as in a C6 vette...
Environment:
I remember that one of the major things that reviewers (I've been doing some research on S2ks since I'm lookin into pickin one up soon) mentioned about the S2000 when it first came out was that although it revved to a searing 9k rpm, it still qualified as a LEV (Low emissions vehicle). A quick look at the Greenhouse Gas Emissions for an 2000 S2000 (first year) on fueleconomy.gov says that it puts out around 8.1-8.2 tons of emissions a year. Comparing that to a MY 2000 Corvette, the Corvette pushes out around 8.5 tons a year. A slight difference, but for an environmentally focused company such as Honda, I think it makes all the difference. I also happened to speak to a prospective seller of an S2000 a couple of days ago, who had owned 2 Vettes previously. He said that fuel economy between the two vehicles wasn't too different, and that in his real world driving experience, the S2k had a greater edge in the city, netting him around 21mpg usually, whereas te Vette would usually get 14-15mpg. However on the hwy, he would get around 28-29mpg in the S2k, but said that he managed better still sometimes on the Vette, where he got 31mpg on a trip to Key west. It must be mentioned however, that the Vette kinda "cheats" when it comes to city mpg, because it forces you from 1st to 4th due to the "skip-shift" feature if you don't rev high enough in 1st.
I also compared an 2004 Acura TL (auto) to a 2004 Infiniti G35 (auto) since we seemed to have a lot of the Nissan gang rootin for the hometeam on this thread! Turn out that the a TL puts out approx 7.9 tons in GG emissions whereas the G35 puts out 9.3 tons. That seems like a much more significant difference to me. Gas mileage also seems to be markedly superior for the TL in both city and hwy.
Dynamics
I've done some rough preliminary research on this and from what I've read, I gathered two things. A fully dressed F20C weighs approximately 150lbs less than a fully dressed LS1 and although both might have the same height, the LS1 is significantly wider. I know Honda wanted a 50/50 distribution on the S2k, and thus mounted the F20C further back behind the front axle. I personally think that Honda would rather resort to a smaller engine such as the F20c so that they could place it further back and also not have it weigh as much. Again coming back to my conversation witht the owner of the S2k who previosuly owned 2 vettes, he said that although the vette would stick like glue, it never possessed the same nimbleness and light footed feel of the s2k. He also commented that throtte response on the s2k (at least at high rpms) was a touch mroe responsive.
I have yet to compare the VQ35 and the J32, but I wouldn't be surprised if the case was the same with those two.
I guess in conclusion, I've succeeded in confusing the thread further and even confusing myself. Hopefully, the ^ is somewhat useful, because I really don't/can't believe that Honda would engineer and re-engineer a smaller displacement engine, if bumping up the displacement and or adding cylinders (easier solutions) would satisfy their targets.
I'll admit, from the get go, that I'm a Honda fan to begin with, but I'm also a realist. It just doesn't make sense that Honda would resort to VTEC and assorted engine engineering magic in order to get a similar amount of power, as for example Chevy, who resorts to among other things the simple trick of bumping up displacement to get more hp (for EXAMPLE, an LS2 in the 'vette).
Now I do know (and one of the reasons I will be a Honda fan for life) is that the company is 110% commited to being the most environmentally friendly auto company out there. And I think that herein lies the reasons as to why they continue to engineer and reengineer small displacement engines rather than just stick a super large V8 with uber tall gearing in an S2000 and call it a day.
I also think that another reasons is vehicle dynamics, but I will be honest and say that I'm treading on risky ground with this one, since I'm not too familiar with the size(dimensions)/weight of a F20C (00-03 S2000) vs. an LS2 as in a C6 vette...
Environment:
I remember that one of the major things that reviewers (I've been doing some research on S2ks since I'm lookin into pickin one up soon) mentioned about the S2000 when it first came out was that although it revved to a searing 9k rpm, it still qualified as a LEV (Low emissions vehicle). A quick look at the Greenhouse Gas Emissions for an 2000 S2000 (first year) on fueleconomy.gov says that it puts out around 8.1-8.2 tons of emissions a year. Comparing that to a MY 2000 Corvette, the Corvette pushes out around 8.5 tons a year. A slight difference, but for an environmentally focused company such as Honda, I think it makes all the difference. I also happened to speak to a prospective seller of an S2000 a couple of days ago, who had owned 2 Vettes previously. He said that fuel economy between the two vehicles wasn't too different, and that in his real world driving experience, the S2k had a greater edge in the city, netting him around 21mpg usually, whereas te Vette would usually get 14-15mpg. However on the hwy, he would get around 28-29mpg in the S2k, but said that he managed better still sometimes on the Vette, where he got 31mpg on a trip to Key west. It must be mentioned however, that the Vette kinda "cheats" when it comes to city mpg, because it forces you from 1st to 4th due to the "skip-shift" feature if you don't rev high enough in 1st.
I also compared an 2004 Acura TL (auto) to a 2004 Infiniti G35 (auto) since we seemed to have a lot of the Nissan gang rootin for the hometeam on this thread! Turn out that the a TL puts out approx 7.9 tons in GG emissions whereas the G35 puts out 9.3 tons. That seems like a much more significant difference to me. Gas mileage also seems to be markedly superior for the TL in both city and hwy.
Dynamics
I've done some rough preliminary research on this and from what I've read, I gathered two things. A fully dressed F20C weighs approximately 150lbs less than a fully dressed LS1 and although both might have the same height, the LS1 is significantly wider. I know Honda wanted a 50/50 distribution on the S2k, and thus mounted the F20C further back behind the front axle. I personally think that Honda would rather resort to a smaller engine such as the F20c so that they could place it further back and also not have it weigh as much. Again coming back to my conversation witht the owner of the S2k who previosuly owned 2 vettes, he said that although the vette would stick like glue, it never possessed the same nimbleness and light footed feel of the s2k. He also commented that throtte response on the s2k (at least at high rpms) was a touch mroe responsive.
I have yet to compare the VQ35 and the J32, but I wouldn't be surprised if the case was the same with those two.
I guess in conclusion, I've succeeded in confusing the thread further and even confusing myself. Hopefully, the ^ is somewhat useful, because I really don't/can't believe that Honda would engineer and re-engineer a smaller displacement engine, if bumping up the displacement and or adding cylinders (easier solutions) would satisfy their targets.
Last edited by vishnus11; 04-14-2006 at 01:00 PM.
#340
I read an article a few years ago about Honda's obsession with the development of superior engineeering. For an NA engine of any given displacement, they wanted to develop technologies to push the envelope in terms of HP, mpg, rpm. reliability, emissions, including the development of new materials. The article said this drive for perfection was both a positive and a negative, the latter because it could take attention and resources away from other areas. Honda's thinking was that if you produce superior engineering and simply focus on that, people would buy.
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-14-2006 at 01:20 PM.
#341
Honda/Acura knows what they are doing. They maximize the potential of their engines so therefore do not necessarily need to shoot for a bigger displacement. In todays world, with all the technological advances it is not necessary to increase displacement to get more power and reliability. Honda has obviously proven that. Most manufacturers are sold on the fact that most of the American market is attracted to tons of horsepower/torque and large displacements. Honda on the other hand builds cars and engines that they know will be reliable and very efficient and still have good power. Reliability is a big thing with them. So all you folks disagreeing with Honda to come out with a V8 engine, hate on. They are doing what they do because they are smarter than most automotive manufacturers who are just pushing power and displacement to please some customers for a short term whereas Honda is trying to build reliable engines for thier true fans and consumers that they know will return to purchase another vehicle because they were pleased with the service of the previous one. So as they say "having less sometimes is more" and if having less sometimes means more, then us TRUE Honda/Acura fans don't want to be right.
#342
Originally Posted by y2kardell
So as they say "having less sometimes is more" and if having less sometimes means more, then us TRUE Honda/Acura fans don't want to be right.
#344
So you mean in response to the expression "more is always better," we want to be wrong; however, in response to the expression "having less is sometimes more," we want to be right.
#348
Team Owner
um.. why do i have a feeeling that the new TL or the new coupe is gonna be 300+HP and FWD again??
#349
Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
I read an article a few years ago about Honda's obsession with the development of superior engineeering. For an NA engine of any given displacement, they wanted to develop technologies to push the envelope in terms of HP, mpg, rpm. reliability, emissions, including the development of new materials. The article said this drive for perfection was both a positive and a negative, the latter because it could take attention and resources away from other areas. Honda's thinking was that if you produce superior engineering and simply focus on that, people would buy.
They may have accomplished that with their I-4 engines, moving ahead of the comp. in those areas, but unfortunately when it came to the sixes, there were more big dogs involved, one being BMW- m3, 3.2l, 333hp@7900rpm. And then BMW did the same damn thing with their new v10, pushed the envelope so far that it may even reach the new NSX.
#350
Team Owner
Originally Posted by heyitsme
They may have accomplished that with their I-4 engines, moving ahead of the comp. in those areas, but unfortunately when it came to the sixes, there were more big dogs involved, one being BMW- m3, 3.2l, 333hp@7900rpm. And then BMW did the same damn thing with their new v10, pushed the envelope so far that it may even reach the new NSX.
Agree.
S2k's I4 is the shit...
But when it comes to 6... doesnt matter I6 or V6...they are good enough to compete but not the best.
Best I6 should be E46m3 and best V6 is VQ
#351
The VQ is a very sweet engine, but its still interesting Toyota comes out of nowhere with a more powerful 3.5 v6 with di on their first try. Their lead will most likely end after the intro of new G-series, but still.
#352
That M3 engine you mention IS SWEET, but there's nothing that impressive or special about the VQ. Let's not propagate myth. Let's just admit it's all about what Honda CHOOSES to do.
#353
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
That M3 engine you mention IS SWEET, but there's nothing that impressive or special about the VQ. Let's not propagate myth. Let's just admit it's all about what Honda CHOOSES to do.
the VQ has been awarded every year since it's been out.....u want to "admit" its all about wat honda chooses to do? IMO, they're the company that haven't done $hit
btw, i have a good feeling u're just yanking ppl's chain
#354
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Originally Posted by MaximaPower
the VQ has been awarded every year since it's been out.....u want to "admit" its all about wat honda chooses to do? IMO, they're the company that haven't done $hit
btw, i have a good feeling u're just yanking ppl's chain
they pick VQ because of the more usable power at lower rpm, and a silky smooth engine
and J30 wins because it still pumps out 244hp even with regular gas and efficiency and VTEC power
#355
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
the VQ has been awarded every year since it's been out.....u want to "admit" its all about wat honda chooses to do? IMO, they're the company that haven't done $hit
btw, i have a good feeling u're just yanking ppl's chain
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-15-2006 at 01:17 PM.
#356
Originally Posted by MaximaPower
its all about wat honda chooses to do? IMO, they're the company that haven't done $hit
btw, i have a good feeling u're just yanking ppl's chain
btw, i have a good feeling u're just yanking ppl's chain
Obviously, you did not do your research when you bought the Maxima. What year is your Maxima? And how do you like your billet grille? Perhaps you and mrdeeno can build a custom billet grille for his M45. That should make his M45 even more "classy."
#357
Oh man, so the guy owns an '05 Mustang now? Ok, you have to believe that I'm not trying to jump on this guy on purpose, but I hate the new Mustang with a vengeance. That is an absolutely atrocious car inside and out. The engine is fine. I would NEVER EVER buy that POS. That car has flaws and unnecessary compromises built into it on purpose from DAY ONE. Purposely engineered flaws is another reason that I simply can not take a chance on Nissan at this time. Perhaps in the near future but not at this time, no way. An accurate metaphor is that Nissan is the Chevrolet of Japanese cars. Yes.
Remember, dumb people don't just do dumb things. Dumb people do dumb things over and over and over and over.
Remember, dumb people don't just do dumb things. Dumb people do dumb things over and over and over and over.
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-15-2006 at 01:58 PM.
#358
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
Age: 46
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Originally Posted by Cog Neuro Sci
OF COURSE IT IS TRUE. It really is about what Honda chooses to do, knuckleheads. That is an objective, truthful statement that you just don't seem to want to accept. That is one of the easier factual statements one can make in this big and uncertain world. Therefore, it sounds like you are a Nissan fanboi.
Obviously, you did not do your research when you bought the Maxima. What year is your Maxima? And how do you like your billet grille? Perhaps you and mrdeeno can build a custom billet grille for his M45. That should make his M45 even more "classy."
Obviously, you did not do your research when you bought the Maxima. What year is your Maxima? And how do you like your billet grille? Perhaps you and mrdeeno can build a custom billet grille for his M45. That should make his M45 even more "classy."
This guy says that the engine that Honda chose NOT to build is superior to anything any other company can produce for any given displacement. Kinda like virtual-mag-racing!
Then he goes on to tout his many sources from years back, but has always failed to produce a single source saying its a waste of his time and we should do our own research.
He also fails to support any of his baseless assertions with any kind of reasoning or evidence (thank GOD you're not a lawyer!), but likes to brag about how intellectually superior he is.
Then he goes on to call people "knuckleheads" and makes personal attacks and calls people who don't drive honda's "fanboys". And he has the gall to tell us that OUR egos are too big?!?
and he reports ME to the mods?!?
This is just TOO funny!
#359
Here we go again. Your words are always ego versus ego. My words are always about the topic, about the issue itself. Indeed, 99.9999999% of the world's population does not live by this tenet, including all fields of science. Still, the scientific process of discovering truth and reality is worthy; it is the PEOPLE who screw things up. However, science is the only process I know that is self-correcting, regardless of how screwed up the people behind it are.
Your play on words, mrdeeno, is cliche. You sound like a typical humanities/pre-law major, although it appears you are actually a dime a dozen engineer. Still the semantics game is pervasive in all domains. I am a master of cutting through that, btw, as you already know. You also know I NEVER play semantics. Your wordplay is at such a mundane level to me but I realize how you can influence and manipulate young and uneducated fanbois.
Your comment about Honda engines that don't exist. Uh, they do exist, just not for the cars you were in the market for. Bingo. The production V8 isn't out yet but the Formula 1 V8 engine is producing the most HP. Precedence shows that Honda engines in whatever class outperform their competitors for any given displacement. When they don't, it is because Honda has purposely held back, e.g., SOHC instead of DOHC, etc. The great amount of precedence provides GREAT REASON to conclude that Honda engines CAN BE superior in any given class, if and when Honda chooses to do that. The amount of precedence is so great that there is REASONABLE DOUBT that another car company, especially Nissan, can match Honda's engine wizardry.
Your second comment about the mags is all about bluff and fluff, yet again. I have simply recounted the incredibly numerous independently convergent mag statements over the last 5 years. FACT. PERIOD. Because I don't have the will to spend the time to find all the sources again or I can't (my old mags are thrown away, some mags I read at the bookstore) does not weaken those statements. And here we have a great opportunity to illustrate something I stated before about you and most other people in this world. You play games about words, using semantics and attacking my WORDS. Essentially, you've acquired the risk that I'm bluffing or saying shit, and this is what has backfired on you many times already with me. Instead, what you should be doing is focusing on the validity BEHIND THOSE WORDS. I did not make up what all those mags said. I didn't make up one single thing. I simply report what I have read, and from where I stand, I am 100% correct. Now you can (1) search for those articles and when you find the truth of what I report (because you would), then you can (2) argue against them, not me. Your liking for the phrase "failed to" is actually very very common and dumb. I call these semantics "lawyer's words." The phrase is not very meaningful because it doesn't distinguish between could not, refused to but could have, or unnecessary to. Listen dude, if you continue with semantics, it will not work with me, as you should know by now. Focus on the SUBSTANCE, not semantics.
I have determined what no other scientist in the world has. If we focus on peoples' words, then our egos will want to attack, challenge, and compete against the ego (or person) behind those words. Even scientists do this all the time. Instead, what we should be focusing on is testing the validity of the IDEA behind those words. Focus on WHAT those words are trying to say independently of the language itself (the language itself is strewn with prosodic elements that include hints of our own ego), which would most probably cause your ego to focus on the WHO behind those words. This complex interaction of language and ego is a fundamental essential reason for SHITHEADS, which include 99.9999999% of the world's population. Thank you, mrdeeno, for allowing me to share some philosophy. If I were a lawyer, God and all things that are good and without vanity would thank me. Actually.
Do you realize how dumb you are? And I'm saying this from strong inferences that I'm able to make BEHIND the words you say, the truth and reality BEHIND telegraphed by your words. Independently, when I focus on the WHO behind your words, I conclude that I would like to do a BIG SMELLY SHIT ON YOUR FACE.
Your play on words, mrdeeno, is cliche. You sound like a typical humanities/pre-law major, although it appears you are actually a dime a dozen engineer. Still the semantics game is pervasive in all domains. I am a master of cutting through that, btw, as you already know. You also know I NEVER play semantics. Your wordplay is at such a mundane level to me but I realize how you can influence and manipulate young and uneducated fanbois.
Your comment about Honda engines that don't exist. Uh, they do exist, just not for the cars you were in the market for. Bingo. The production V8 isn't out yet but the Formula 1 V8 engine is producing the most HP. Precedence shows that Honda engines in whatever class outperform their competitors for any given displacement. When they don't, it is because Honda has purposely held back, e.g., SOHC instead of DOHC, etc. The great amount of precedence provides GREAT REASON to conclude that Honda engines CAN BE superior in any given class, if and when Honda chooses to do that. The amount of precedence is so great that there is REASONABLE DOUBT that another car company, especially Nissan, can match Honda's engine wizardry.
Your second comment about the mags is all about bluff and fluff, yet again. I have simply recounted the incredibly numerous independently convergent mag statements over the last 5 years. FACT. PERIOD. Because I don't have the will to spend the time to find all the sources again or I can't (my old mags are thrown away, some mags I read at the bookstore) does not weaken those statements. And here we have a great opportunity to illustrate something I stated before about you and most other people in this world. You play games about words, using semantics and attacking my WORDS. Essentially, you've acquired the risk that I'm bluffing or saying shit, and this is what has backfired on you many times already with me. Instead, what you should be doing is focusing on the validity BEHIND THOSE WORDS. I did not make up what all those mags said. I didn't make up one single thing. I simply report what I have read, and from where I stand, I am 100% correct. Now you can (1) search for those articles and when you find the truth of what I report (because you would), then you can (2) argue against them, not me. Your liking for the phrase "failed to" is actually very very common and dumb. I call these semantics "lawyer's words." The phrase is not very meaningful because it doesn't distinguish between could not, refused to but could have, or unnecessary to. Listen dude, if you continue with semantics, it will not work with me, as you should know by now. Focus on the SUBSTANCE, not semantics.
I have determined what no other scientist in the world has. If we focus on peoples' words, then our egos will want to attack, challenge, and compete against the ego (or person) behind those words. Even scientists do this all the time. Instead, what we should be focusing on is testing the validity of the IDEA behind those words. Focus on WHAT those words are trying to say independently of the language itself (the language itself is strewn with prosodic elements that include hints of our own ego), which would most probably cause your ego to focus on the WHO behind those words. This complex interaction of language and ego is a fundamental essential reason for SHITHEADS, which include 99.9999999% of the world's population. Thank you, mrdeeno, for allowing me to share some philosophy. If I were a lawyer, God and all things that are good and without vanity would thank me. Actually.
Do you realize how dumb you are? And I'm saying this from strong inferences that I'm able to make BEHIND the words you say, the truth and reality BEHIND telegraphed by your words. Independently, when I focus on the WHO behind your words, I conclude that I would like to do a BIG SMELLY SHIT ON YOUR FACE.
Last edited by Cog Neuro Sci; 04-15-2006 at 04:28 PM.
#360
Suzuka Master
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Lower Nazzie, Pa
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And I'm sure Nissan COULD produce engines that would kick any Honda engine's ass in any given displacement also. and i'll just back that up using your argument...they just chose not to.
Pleez...
fanboi, don't boooother me.
fanboi, don't boooother me.
fanboi, don't boooother me.
Hey cog neuro sci, you should change your name to 1sickfanboi!
Pleez...
fanboi, don't boooother me.
fanboi, don't boooother me.
fanboi, don't boooother me.
Hey cog neuro sci, you should change your name to 1sickfanboi!