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ILX: 693 RLX: 80
TLX: 1,903 . . . . lowest monthly sales # . . . . ever. Let's see if MMC can fix decline.
Jan 2016 vs Jan 2017 (U.S.)
Acura TLX = 2,239 --> 1,903 (-15.01%)
Audi A4 = 1,474 --> 1,959 (+32.90%)
BMW 3 series = 3,287 --> 4,032 (+22.67%)
BMW 4 series = 1,832 --> 1,944 (+6.11%)
Buick LaCrosse = 4,057 --> 1,307 (-67.78%)
Cadillac ATS = 1,067 --> 974 (-8.72%)
Cadillac CTS = 1,013 --> 691 (-31.79%)
Infiniti Q50 = 2,914 --> 3,206 (+10.02%)
Infiniti Q60 = 132 --> 732 (+454.55%)
Lexus IS = 2,178 --> 1,423 (-34.66%)
Lexus ES = 3,400 --> 2,171 (-36.15%)
Mercedes C Class = 6,236 --> 5,079 (-18.55%)
Nissan Maxima = 4,415 --> 3,738 (-15.33%)
The decline of the TLX is pretty much expected given it's getting a facelift soon.
But I'm quite surprised by both Lexus IS and ES.....I don't recall seeing such low numbers for these cars for a long time. The ES has always been a pretty strong seller as it caters to a certain demographic. And the IS just got its facelift, has a striking design, nice interior, good handling, etc. And relatively peaking it's not all that expensive too.
Originally Posted by AZuser
QFT
Overall sales for Jan 2017 vs Jan 2016 are down 10.2% (down 10.71% if you exclude NSX since it didn't exist in Jan 2016), yet Acura says "sales remained fairly steady."
MDX sales are down 8.4% yet Acura says "light trucks demonstrating continued strength."
lol I doubt any manufacturer would say "our sales suck and they keep on falling and we don't know what to do."
It's all BS talk.
Originally Posted by TacoBello
Is anyone shocked to see Mercedes moved over 6000 C class sedans, last month? Now that is impressive, especially for a car at that price point.
I think it went from 6000 units in Jan 2016 to 5000 units in Jan 2017.
Others like oonowindoo have mentioned before that leasing is very popular with MB and BMW.
Originally Posted by RPhilMan1
Holy CR-V!
But ouch ILX and TLX. Acura is in trouble, and there's no solution in sight.
lol the ILX has been in that sort of shape for a while. And it's gonna be replaced soon. There's no real solution in the near future. Gotta wait for the real precision concept stuff to show up. Then we will know more.
Is anyone shocked to see Mercedes moved over 6000 C class sedans, last month? Now that is impressive, especially for a car at that price point.
Looks like they moved 6000 in 2016 and 5000 in 2017. Given that in Jan the auto industry as a whole moved over 1 million cars...that's about 0.5% so not too unexpected per se....Benz is a big household name and many people equate it as the status symbol for success and probably not uncommon for people to buy one to realize their dream no matter if the car is to their own taste or if they do any serious competitive comparison across the others.
Originally Posted by iforyou
But I'm quite surprised by both Lexus IS and ES.....I don't recall seeing such low numbers for these cars for a long time. The ES has always been a pretty strong seller as it caters to a certain demographic. And the IS just got its facelift, has a striking design, nice interior, good handling, etc. And relatively peaking it's not all that expensive too.
Indeed. In general the American public is buying luxury cars less and less and the trend is holding true to this year as well.
WSJ just updated their Car Data Center and overall luxury car sales are down almost 6%. So it's an industry wide hit.
Link here: Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com
The decline of the TLX is pretty much expected given it's getting a facelift soon.
But I'm quite surprised by both Lexus IS and ES.....I don't recall seeing such low numbers for these cars for a long time. The ES has always been a pretty strong seller as it caters to a certain demographic. And the IS just got its facelift, has a striking design, nice interior, good handling, etc. And relatively peaking it's not all that expensive too.
lol I doubt any manufacturer would say "our sales suck and they keep on falling and we don't know what to do."
It's all BS talk.
I think it went from 6000 units in Jan 2016 to 5000 units in Jan 2017.
Others like oonowindoo have mentioned before that leasing is very popular with MB and BMW.
lol the ILX has been in that sort of shape for a while. And it's gonna be replaced soon. There's no real solution in the near future. Gotta wait for the real precision concept stuff to show up. Then we will know more.
While it might be true for other brand or other models, but i highly doubt people are waiting for the facelift TLX to cause low sales #s.
IS has not been selling "well" for a while if you compare where they should be. I think they need the Siracha edition to spice things up.
As weird as it might sound, it seems the Germans are expanding their marketing shares even when their cars are considered less reliable and more expensive than Japanese luxury brand.
Looks like they moved 6000 in 2016 and 5000 in 2017. Given that in Jan they moved over 1 million cars...that's about 0.5% so not too unexpected per se....Benz is a big household name and many people equate it as the status symbol for success and probably not uncommon for people to buy one to realize their dream no matter if the car is to their own taste or if they do any serious competitive comparison across the others.
Indeed. In general the American public is buying luxury cars less and less and the trend is holding true to this year as well.
WSJ just updated their Car Data Center and overall luxury car sales are down almost 6%. So it's an industry wide hit.
Link here: Auto Sales - Markets Data Center - WSJ.com
I blame Acura for pulling the entire luxury segment down.
Reliability isn't much of an issue for newer German cars, as they are still under warranty, and as mentioned, leasing is very popular. They also market their "free maintenance".
You wash your hands clean of the car after a few years at most anyway, what does reliability matter? But as mentioned by several Car Talk members, their MB and Audi products have been very reliable for them, much more so than their previous Acuras. Acura hasn't offered anything that lures them back in, so...
Yea, the sedans, even, non luxury ones, are suffering.
I didn't mean to say that people are waiting for the TLX face lift. My point is that the existing TLX is so out of date and in needs of updating that no one is really checking it out anymore an hence its sale is declining fast.
Yea, German car reliability has improved. It's just that when you need to replace parts, those parts are in general more expensive. I guess if you can afford the car, then you can afford for those replacement parts though, unless you are buying used.
Yea, the sedans, even, non luxury ones, are suffering.
I didn't mean to say that people are waiting for the TLX face lift. My point is that the existing TLX is so out of date and in needs of updating that no one is really checking it out anymore an hence its sale is declining fast.
Yea, German car reliability has improved. It's just that when you need to replace parts, those parts are in general more expensive. I guess if you can afford the car, then you can afford for those replacement parts though, unless you are buying used.
1 small correction: TLX was already outdated when it was released.
This is why Honda NEEDS to release the reigns off Acura, and allow them to actually become the company they want to be.
It seems Acura has a hard time keeping sales up, or beating records that were set a decade ago, as they are always playing second fiddle to Honda. It's fine if Acura and Honda want to share some stuff... but Acura needs to differentiate itself from Honda in a major way, and even exceed Honda in a noticeable way.
Gotta wait for the precision concept stuff....meaning, next gen models.
In the near future I don't expect many changes for Acura models. These are the "smart luxury" models that didn't work out well but they are entering their final years. Jon Ikeda in 2015 said the focus for the brand will be on sedans. So we will see if that holds true.
I meant they need their own frame (at least one), and not just rely on rejigged versions of the Accord for two of their vehicles, a rejigged civic for another, etc. Somehow differing powertrains, not just write "Premium recommended" on the gas cap to differentiate two near identical engines between Honda and Acura, be daring and build a coupe or convertible of their own, dabble with a v8, dabble with rwd, just do something different than the exact same as Honda already has, but with some tweaks.
The precision concept design is one thing. But looks won't separate the two. The "entry level" brands like Honda have now caught up to the "premium level" brands like Acura, and it seems people aren't necessarily sold on just minor upgrades from the "entry" to "premium" levels.
Unless they decided to bring in a longitudinal platform, nothing is going to change. Last time I heard, the next gen TLX will once again share it's plank with Accord and Civic(!!!).
I meant they need their own frame (at least one), and not just rely on rejigged versions of the Accord for two of their vehicles, a rejigged civic for another, etc. Somehow differing powertrains, not just write "Premium recommended" on the gas cap to differentiate two near identical engines between Honda and Acura, be daring and build a coupe or convertible of their own, dabble with a v8, dabble with rwd, just do something different than the exact same as Honda already has, but with some tweaks.
The precision concept design is one thing. But looks won't separate the two. The "entry level" brands like Honda have now caught up to the "premium level" brands like Acura, and it seems people aren't necessarily sold on just minor upgrades from the "entry" to "premium" levels.
Originally Posted by justnspace
and how many times, has acura came out with a cool ass concept only to dumb that shit down?
you think the PCP concept will be exactly what they show?
history tells us otherwise
Originally Posted by MSZ
Unless they decided to bring in a longitudinal platform, nothing is going to change. Last time I heard, the next gen TLX will once again share it's plank with Accord and Civic(!!!).
Been hearing a few different rumours - one is that they are working on a longitudinal FWD platform - the Audi route. The other route is bring back that RWD platform that they were working on 9 years ago.
As for engines, think they are working on a 3.0 or 3.5TT. Some say it might even be on the facelifted TLX Type S. I personally think all the TLX will get is the 2.0T from the CTR.
The key is that Honda must put resources into the brand. Everyone in Acura knows what the brand needs - dedicated platform, powertrain, attractive exterior, nice interior, high end unique features, Honda reliability, etc. The issue before is that Honda wasn't willing to commit money.
Been hearing a few different rumours - one is that they are working on a longitudinal FWD platform - the Audi route. The other route is bring back that RWD platform that they were working on 9 years ago.
As for engines, think they are working on a 3.0 or 3.5TT. Some say it might even be on the facelifted TLX Type S. I personally think all the TLX will get is the 2.0T from the CTR.
The key is that Honda must put resources into the brand. Everyone in Acura knows what the brand needs - dedicated platform, powertrain, attractive exterior, nice interior, high end unique features, Honda reliability, etc. The issue before is that Honda wasn't willing to commit money.
It's clear the Honda brand is all the attention. The Civic and the Accord bury their contemporaries, but the caliper brand is full of uninspired efforts.
It's clear the Honda brand is all the attention. The Civic and the Accord bury their contemporaries, but the caliper brand is full of uninspired efforts.
But... but... the marketing guys tell me it's "that kind of thrill".
1 small correction: TLX was already outdated when it was released.
why TLX was outdated?. it is the quietest and most fuel efficient car in its class in real world driving. I was comparing some used BMW3 and TLX prices and TLX holds value much better.
It's clear the Honda brand is all the attention. The Civic and the Accord bury their contemporaries, but the caliper brand is full of uninspired efforts.
yea, that'st he current situation. When you look back several years ago though, both brands were full of uninspired efforts, just think about the 2012 Honda line up - aging Pilot, Ridgeline, and Odyssey, the average 8g accord, the horrible 9g Civic redesign, etc. Gradually Honda fixed the whole Honda line up, and I think it's safe to say the most current Honda models are very competitive, if not class leading.
Based on what Jon Ikeda is saying, the focus is now with Acura. In the next few years when the next generation of Acura models come out, we will see how those models will do.
That's good to hear, but it's unfortunate for the enthusiasts and brand loyalists who are turning away in the mean time. It's a little late to be reacting now. I guess better late than never.
The ILX and TLX are laggards in every respect compared to its competition. Middling power train, bland design, and lack of interior premium finish. My 05 TL feels more upscale than the current TLX and that is a shame. I've had TLX loaners and it is filled on the inside with plastic trim/finish seen on its Honda brands. There's not enough differentiation between an upgraded Accord or Civic vs a TLX or ILX.
That's good to hear, but it's unfortunate for the enthusiasts and brand loyalists who are turning away in the mean time. It's a little late to be reacting now. I guess better late than never.
I hear ya. In hindsight, the turning point was the economy collapse - when Honda cancelled the HSV and its Acura Tier-1 plans in 2010 or so. I guess we probably wouldn't be having this conversation if those plans weren't scrapped as we would have a V10 supercar and RWD V8 Acura sedans.
I can understand scrapping the hsv when the economy tanked... but not moving the brand up scale?
The economy tanked in 07/08. The upscale 4G was released in 09. Yeah, sales were lacking... but I highly doubt it was because they moved upscale. I'm sure it had an effect to a degree, but if anything, it was the polarizing looks of the 4G that hurt sales. And acura still doesn't get that.
If you look around, one of the biggest TLX complaints is that it isn't more upscale and that it is a downgrade from the 4G. It sounds like people want more.
It's like acura used the poor sales of the 4G to quash any plans of improving the other models... yet again, it was the polarizing looks that hurt the car the most. Who in their right minds wants to pay 50k for a car they don't aesthetically love? Cars are supposed to evoke human emotion. If a car evokes an "ugh... that's ugly" emotion, someone's not doing something right.
Also, now that I think about it- scrapping the HSV was a dumb idea also. Put it on Hold? Sure. Return in a few years, make changes as necessary, but fly with it. The notion of completely scrapping the project and starting from scratch again was a bad idea IMHO.
The economy actually tanked in late 08, early 09. I know...because that's when I graduated from University and had a tough time looking for a job.....
The 4G would be before the Tier-1 plan - but it's definitely a step up compared to the 3G TL, shame about the look though.
Yea, now that when you come to think of it, Honda totally overreacted to the financial downturn. I mean, the 2012 Civic was another prime example. The plan was to build a cheap Civic as Honda thought people would be willing to give up some quality for better pricing.....
I would imagine Honda still has some HSV and FR sedan test mules around. I wouldn't completely rule it out that they are looking into bringing the RWD platform back. V8 is probably a no go though as I'd imagine the focus would be on a 3L or 3.5L TT V6.
What are you talking about, iforyou? The 4G TL was the first (and final) foray into the tier one market. At least that's what I've heard countless times on here.
Also, didn't the HSV rely on a V10, not a V8?
also, the economy was already in full swing shit by 2009. I think 2008 is when it did go down... Maybe near the end of 2007, but definitely 2008.
so I assume there's likely 2-3 years of vehicle development prior to it being released... That means that if the 4G was Acura's one and only foray into the tier 1 segment, they began working on it in 2006-2007.
What are you talking about, iforyou? The 4G TL was the first (and final) foray into the tier one market. At least that's what I've heard countless times on here.
Also, didn't the HSV rely on a V10, not a V8?
also, the economy was already in full swing shit by 2009. I think 2008 is when it did go down... Maybe near the end of 2007, but definitely 2008.
so I assume there's likely 2-3 years of vehicle development prior to it being released... That means that if the 4G was Acura's one and only foray into the tier 1 segment, they began working on it in 2006-2007.
By Tier-1, I believe people are referring to models having its own chassis, powertrain, with really nice interior and stuff. The 4G TL's interior is very nice for its price range, and was finally given SH-AWD. But it was also sitting on the global midsize platform like the Accord, while using basically the same J series with some tweaks. In contrast, Audi models, despite being FWD based, have their own platform, and a V8 or 3.0 SC/Turbo engine available, compared to a regular VW.
May be we can call the 4G TL as semi Tier 1 as it seems to be noticeably nicer than the 3G TL.
Yea HSV was V10. But Acura was also devloping a RWD platform and V8 engine...but doesn't matter now as they were all cancelled...lol.
Honda is now selling more in China and first time pass Hyundi. Yeh has completely disappeared.
Eh. Hyundai's product offerings in China are on the older side and they are lacking production capacity in crossovers.
Have new models on the way, as well as a new plant in China dedicated to building crossovers.
Can just as easily point out that H/K sales in Europe are booming (73,333 sales for Jan.); otoh, in a growing market, Honda sales dropped 7% to 11,302.
Btw,how are Acura sedan sales doing?
When the G70 and Stinger hit the lots, TLX sales (which have already been dwindling) should see a further drop off.
And forget the Stinger - with the addition of the G70, the Genesis sedans should handily outsell the Acura sedans and that's despite being at a higher price-point to boot.
American Honda continues record pace in February for total vehicle and truck sales
Honda CR-V raises the bar again, breaking February record with a 26.3 percent jump
Honda HR-V also nets a February record, gaining 28.6 percent
Acura RDX has its best-ever February, rising 6.1 percent as it continues to pace division
American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported total February sales of 121,686 Honda and Acura vehicles, an increase of 2.3 percent over February 2016 and a new record for the month. American Honda trucks also set a February record, rising 12.2 percent on sales of 63,989. Total Honda Division sales as well as Honda truck sales also set new February marks, with total Honda Division sales gaining 4.3 percent on sales of 110,822 and trucks up 15.3 percent on sales of 56,419 units. Acura Division sales were down 14.9 percent, with 10,864 vehicles sold in February.
Honda
The Honda Division continued its record sales streak into the second month of the year, gaining 4.3 percent on sales of 110.882 units to set a new February benchmark. CR-V and HR-V repeated strong January performances, driving Honda trucks to a February record as well. The Fit also gained in February while Civic and Accord held their own in a market tilting toward trucks.
Honda trucks set a new benchmark in February, gaining 15.3 percent on sales of 56,419.
CR-V and HR-V drove truck sales, both setting new February marks; CR-V sales were up 26.3 percent on sales of 31,898, and HR-V up 28.6 percent with 6,354 units sold.
Accord and Civic continue to swim against the tide, with sales cresting 23,000 and 27,000 units, respectively.
"The new CR-V is exceeding our own expectations with production and deliveries now fully up to speed," said Jeff Conrad, senior vice president and general manager of the Honda Division. "It's clearly hitting a sweet spot in the market and complemented by HR-V at the entry level."
Acura
Acura sales continued recent trends, with the RDX enjoying its best-ever February. NSX also remained steady, showing no signs of the winter doldrums that can affect ultra-performance cars. And after a strong first outing at Daytona in January, the NSX GT3 racecar goes to the legendary 12 Hours of Sebring in search of endurance racing glory later this month.
Acura's popular RDX set a new February record, gaining 6.1 percent on sales of 4,029 vehicles.
Continuing a steady production and sales pace, 46 NSX supercars were sold in February.
02-01-2017, 03:22 PM
RLX: 80
Feb
