The Green Hornet

Here are the results of my inquiry, for those interested. I sent an identical Email to four companies: Meguiar’s, Mother’s, Zymol and Pinnacle (I’m sure there are more, but I have a life). I asked them about the durability and shine of Carnauba wax and inquired about other brands that do not use wax or oils in their products but I didn’t use names. I will not include the names of people whom I received responses from, only their company. I will say that I don’t think these companies have anything to gain by lying. All of them have been in business for a long time (25 years or more) and have established reputations at Concourse events around the country, if not the world, and I’m sure they won’t lose a bit of sleep if 15 or so people think they are lying and decide to switch brands.

Meguiars answered me on their support line, saying that paint has to be “fed” to keep its’ luster, and that waxes will last anywhere from 1 to 3 months depending. They also said that with any product, the more you keep it up, the easier it will be to maintain. I may have taken several hours to do my car the first time, but I can guarantee that it won’t be nearly as difficult from now on.

Pinnacle responded by saying that the higher Carnauba content in a wax, the deeper the shine will be. They said that their product will last up to 3 months, and that it should, on average, take you 30 minutes to apply. They said that if you want protection to last longer than that, you must switch to a synthetic product, which will last longer but generally won’t produce as deep a shine.

Zymol sent me a letter back saying that most importantly, a car’s paint has to breathe. If you are using any type of sealant, it can seal paint so thoroughly that the paint underneath can dry out. They also said that in their testing, they have gotten Carnauba to last as long as 6 months, but it varies depending upon the conditions you are driving in.

Mother’s actually called me back. I first asked about Carnauba’s longevity. He answered honestly by saying that it varies anywhere from 2 days to 5 months again with many factors involved: What is the weather like in your area? Is your car garaged and if so, for how long during the day? Did you just have an acid rainstorm? How often do you wash it? What about road salt or sand in winter? He did say that a good rule of thumb is around 2 months. I asked about the “gloss enhancers”. What this person told me was that there is no “true” gloss enhancer. If you have a freshly painted panel with nothing on it, and the reflectivity is 100, ANYTHING you do from that point will take away, if ever so slightly, from that LEVEL of gloss. That is not to say that you can’t improve the gloss of an oxidized panel, but you can’t go back to ground zero unless you have a buffing wheel and some paint. He also said that there are so many factors involved in your results. The condition of the paint, the types of products you use, the ability/knowledge of the person doing the work, etc.

My personal consensus is as follows: Carnauba doesn’t last forever…we all know that. And none of these companies are pretending that it does. But I think it’s safe to say that on average, it’ll last 60-90 days. A lot depends upon the factors I have mentioned. A car in Los Angeles isn’t going to take near the beating of a car in, say, Cleveland, Ohio. Something else to keep in mind: These companies are SELLING A PRODUCT and therefore have a vested interest in putting their best foot forward and being ready with all the answers. I was in the Securities business for several years and you know what? Michael Milken was a helluva persuasive individual and had all the answers as well. And we all know what happened there.

Hope this was informative.

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2001 CL Type S, Nighthawk Black, Parchment Interior, Non-Nav, Rear Wing, Tint

MikeS 18

I think I am missing the basic question. I think that what you are asking is does the traditional waxes or derivatives of the traditional waxes compare or not to the claims of the "non-waxes" like Zaino - I am not a Zaino groupee but I think that Zaino is not really a wax, right?

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CL-S #22,299 Black/Parchment/Nav, spoiler, door & fender guards, wood trim, PIAA 19169 & 9005, V1 w/remote, trunk & winter mats, no headers, no sway bars, no springs, no CAI, no money! (but I got a nice new kitchen!)

The Green Hornet

Well, that's only part of it. Many have questioned the durability of Carnauba wax, stating that it can last as little as a week. In extreme cases, I suppose that might be true. But I've been using Carnauba for years with excellent results, so I didn't buy that "lack of durability" scenario completely.

We've heard an awful lot about Zaino in this forum, so I thought it would be interesting to find out what other companies had to say about their products. I'm not a "Zaino groupie" either *laughing* And to be honest, I have no clue what's in it, which I suppose is part of the rub, but I'm fairly certain it is some sort of synthetic polish.

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2001 CL Type S, Nighthawk Black, Parchment Interior, Non-Nav, Rear Wing, Tint

MikeS 18

By the way, nice choice on your CLS colors

I started the spring cleaning yesterday with a Dawn wash and a little testing of the clay bar. I have a '79 MB 450 SEL that I try some of these materials on - its green, no clearcoat so it is pretty hard to screw that paint up - also, its Mercedes and a dream to wax - nice paint.

Anyways, the clay bar'ing seemed to be straightforward and then I am alternating between Meguiar's glaze and the 3M glaze - I think the 3M is better at removing the small hairline scratches on the black. I swear that the snow falling off the car scratches the paint

Then I am using Megiar Yellow wax - liquid. I like it. I would use Zaino but I have enough invested in the Meguiar now that I am too cheap to throw it out - have to use it up first.

I might post a link to the car talk forum for the Zaino heads to contribute in explaining the stuff. I think there is something in the smell of Zaino that brainwashes them...

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CL-S #22,299 Black/Parchment/Nav, spoiler, door & fender guards, wood trim, PIAA 19169 & 9005, V1 w/remote, trunk & winter mats, no headers, no sway bars, no springs, no CAI, no money! (but I got a nice new kitchen!)

Bill97Z

Hey, interesting...thanks for the info.....

I have a few comments.....

The statement about carnuba is false. The shine has nothing to do with the amount of carnuba in the product. Carnuba in itself is a hard, yellow, dull, brittle wax. The most carnuba that can be in a product is under 10%....any more than that, and it would be too solid and hard to work with. Carnuba comes in bricks and has to be melted into a companies formulation. What gives the shine is the oils. EVERY carnuba wax has to contain some type of oil or shine. The more carnuba...the longer the durability...the more oil...the better the shine. I could produce the same shine with house hold kitchen oils and or pledge......of course there would be no durability........

The Green Hornet

Thanks. I like the Parchment interior better than the Black. When you get the black interior, they use the Ebony woodgrain which doesn't look so hot to me. I like the way the brown woodgrain contrasts with the light brown leather.

Mercedes does have excellent paint. An ole' buddy of mine used to detail cars for Hollywood Mercedes-Benz about 20 years ago. He got to visit one of their factories (I believe in Stuttgart) and said that the R&D area for paint was like an operating room.

I use the Meguiars products too (Gold Class) and I'm very pleased. I waxed last weekend and this weekend clean up was a breeze. I think it took me all of 30 minutes.

"Zaino heads" *laffin*

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2001 CL Type S, Nighthawk Black, Parchment Interior, Non-Nav, Rear Wing, Tint

MikeS 18

I'm gonna call them out...Buckle up!

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CL-S #22,299 Black/Parchment/Nav, spoiler, door & fender guards, wood trim, PIAA 19169 & 9005, V1 w/remote, trunk & winter mats, no headers, no sway bars, no springs, no CAI, no money! (but I got a nice new kitchen!)

eclipse23

Zainos, IMO, and I have been through the ringer of almost all the polishes, gives the best ShowCar finish. I don't know about length and durability but DAMN, you can't beat a great Zainos shine. I would say 6 months is about how long Zaino's works for but don't quote me. Best thing about Zainos is that when you call the support line you talk to the guy who developed it, now that's standing behind your product IMO. Everything from my tire shine to leather conditioner is from Zainos, the only non-Zaino product I use is Armor all for very specific spots.

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01' Acura CL Type-S
Piaa 19169 Bulbs
Valentine1 Pig Detector
CompTech Exhaust 4/16
XEPHYR CAI (Yahoo!)
Founding Member of the NO SCRATCHED RIMS CLUB

01'Acura Integra GSR

spiroh

I have never tried Zaino, but I'm VERY happy with my setup. I use 3M Glaze, and Blitz wax.

Spiro

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Black/Black 2001 CL-S
RED AEM CAI
Polarg M6 Roadlamps

The Green Hornet

spiroh: 3M and Blitz are great products. When I still lived in LA, they used to sell a really high quality Carnauba around called Harley's. Ever heard of it? I haven't seen it in years, but still have a can in the garage.

MikeS 18: Actually, I just went into this 'cause I wanted to get input from various companies so folks could be informed. BUT...I have my popcorn and Kevlar vest ready!! *laffin*

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2001 CL Type S, Nighthawk Black, Parchment Interior, Non-Nav, Rear Wing, Tint

vuduvida

What sold me on Zaino products was the loyal following it had from the Corvette crowd. I was dreaming of buying a Vette before I bought the CL-S so I followed their newsgroup and forums (corvetteforum.com). I just couldn't get over how many people loved this stuff so when I got the CL-S, I got the entire product line from Zaino. As they recommend, I clayed the CL-S, applied the polishes and there's now no looking back for me. It really is good stuff. I'm sure Mequires (et al) are very good products also I'm sold on Zaino.

If you want to see some true fanaticism, take a quick look in the Car Care Products section at:

http://corvetteforum.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

mrdeeno

i use to use meguiars, but switched to zaino to see how much the zaino people were exaggerating...they weren't exaggerating much.

i'm convinced too that zaino is a tad better than meguiars...as longevity, i have no idea...i travel so my car is usually covered in a garage.

fastdriver

When I first stumbled on the polish/wax topic in Edmunds.com back in the summer of 1998, I couldn't believe what everyone was saying about this Zaino. I never heard of it. I was a long time user of Meguiars products also and was quite pleased with the results, but not with its longevity. The more I read about Zaino, the more curious I got. I thought the claims sounded like an infomercial at first. Then I said to myself- could ALL these people be lying about the results. The pictures were incredible. So, I ordered the Zaino products and have never looked back! I think the shine, durability and longevity are fantastic.

I like a clean and shiny car, but I am not a fanatic despite what some of my friends think. My previous 99 300M looked incredible with the Zaino and I never even clayed it because I didn't know about clay then. If you click on the links below, you'll see what the 300 looked like with the Zaino. It was NOT at all difficult to keep it looking that way either. Now with my new CL-S, the shine just keeps getting better and better. I have 4 coats of Z-2/Z-6 and 1 of Z-5/Z-6. I plan to do more. With the 300, I could apply the Z-2 and have it wiped off in about 45 minutes. I expect the CL will be less time since it's smaller. There's no white residue, no swirls and no haze to contend with. People's heads really do turn when I drive by. I know they're not looking at me!

When you run out of your regular wax/polish, give Zaino a try. I know you won't be disappointed. As someone said above, if you have a question, just e-mail or call Sal. He's always available to answer any and all questions.

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fastdriver
2001 San Marino Red w/parchment interior.
[*]No nav.[*]No spoiler.[*]Lojack[*]Three coats of Zaino so far! That red is gleaming![*] Number 34331.[*]Built 3/01.[*]Bought 3/28/01
fastdriver's CL without Zaino!
fastdriver's CL with 3 coats of Zaino and the last two with 4 coats of Z-2/Z-6
fastdriver's previous cars. The 300M has Zaino.
Accept mediocrity and that's all you'll ever get!

The Green Hornet

That's my intention. I have a decent supply of Meguiar's left, but when it's gone, I'll probably order up some Zaino to see for myself if the hype is really worth it.

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2001 CL Type S, Nighthawk Black, Parchment Interior, Non-Nav, Rear Wing, Tint

MikeS 18

I have been spending alot of time on the autopia site where the real detailers hang out. A couple of things I have learned:

Zaino is one system that some people swear by. It appears the conventional wisdom there thinks that this is best used on silver and white cars - light colors. Many feel that on a dark car, you get reflection but not as much depth as other protocols.

They generally don't like 3M Imperial Hand Glaze as it is a scratch filler. They like products like 3M Perfect It Swirl Mark Remover. This contains a slight abrasive and fixes the scratches; not just cover them up for a bit.

For the dark cars, Klasse All in One and then Klasse Sealant Glaze is loved by many. I am in the process of trying this now - one panel done and it is really nice - nicer than any of my Meguiar products. By a long shot.

Then for the wax, Blitz Grand is the favorite. Souveran is the top shelf stuff but it is about $70 per can - GEEZ!

Oh, the other thing is that they love the Miracle Towel (microfibre) for polishing/buffing. One guy has spend $350 on towels alone so this is serious detailing...

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CL-S #22,299 Black/Parchment/Nav, spoiler, door & fender guards, wood trim, PIAA 9005, Polarg M6, V1 w/remote, trunk & winter mats, no headers, no sway bars, no springs, no CAI, no money! (but I got a nice new kitchen!)