big mike 13

after a while about thinking about it... i narrowed it down to these two choices..
i have a Black TL and i want the best shine possible.
either Klasse AIO, SG and P21s or AIO and Souveran??
both will have a Swirl Remover used beforehand and both applied by hand.. can anyone help me here?? thanks!

also, i bought my car used and theres these raised lines in my paint, which im guessing is from the previous owner using touch up paint. is there anyway to make it even out? and where would something like this be done at (my uncle does body work for Honda, would he be able to do it?) thanks!

Hawhyen51

It's a matter of preference as to which combo would be best. Check the Wash and Wax forum for more info. You can also go to Detail City or Autopia and are just two of the numerous sites available for info and products..... Post some pix when you finish and let the forum know what products you used.

Vicman17

I used Klasse AIO/SG on black and it worked really well. I found that Klasse AIO is best applied with an orbital buffer with a nickel-sized amount per panel and "lubed" by a QD spray like Showtime or Meg's #34. Without the lube, it tends to dry up fast. My Mom's black Acura was clayed, prepped (using ColorX), then Klasse AIO. I then used Klasse SG by hand and have 3 coats of it spaced about 12-hours apart. I topped it off with Meg's #26 HTYW and the black looks like it's WET. I heard P21S is a good match for Klasse. Souveran too, but these are a bit on the expensive side. A friend of mine uses Pinnacle wax on top of Klasse on his Boxster (gray metallic) and has been happy with the combo for years.

Road Rage

Need more info: Does your car sit in a garage, or is it at least covered?

generally, for daily drivers, I sacrifice ultimate shine for durability and protection.

I have AIO and P21S and Zymol in my stable, and have used Pinnacle Souveran. The P21S goes on my S2000, which is in a heated garage, and never sees rain, let alone snow. The paint gets cleaned 3 times/year with 3M Imperial Glaze, followed by the P21s. It is a great wax, with high clarity, and no polymer clouding or "silvery" effect.

Polymers can leave a silvery haze on black cars. especially Euro paint systems - no one really seems to know why.

Good info at:
www.carecareonline.com

I also like Zymol Carbon. The Pinnacle products are fine, esp the paintwork cleaner, which is effective and very mild. But Pinnacle has got a little bit full of toself, and its good value vs. price has been superceded by the snobby Zymol approach, of constantly developing mroe and more expensive versions of the same stuff.

For my TL, which has a car cover, and a reserved spot in an indoor garage at work, I use the 3M Show Car Wax, with its fluropolymer/acrylic resins and polysiloxane, in a high Carnauba content wax (it is fine to do the whole car then remove the wax, unlike the Zymol one section at a time hassle).

For my wife's Outback, which gets left out all the time, seldonly washed by hand, and sees all the bumps and grinds of Soccer Mommy Land, the Klasse AIO 4 times ayear applied with the Porter Cable and a mild cutting/buffing pad (Meguiar's crimson) cleans well, leaves a good shine, and stands up to the abuse wuite well.

big mike 13

^^hey thanks a lot, i really didnt understand which you suggested, but i dont use a cover and my car is outdoors at all times... hope that helps.

insmanblue

I also heard that Klasse AIO and P21 is a great combo. I talked with someone who is very knowledgeable and suggested to me for the winter go with the Klasse AIO and the Klasse Glaze for durability. I have an anthracite TL and the AIO and Glaze together is a great combination. It provides a deep shine on dark colors. When it becomes summer I will use the P21 over the AIO. On my last car I got caught up with the Zaino craze. What a cult following this product has. I put on the waxes, clearners and polishes as per directions and I was dissapointed with the results. No deep shine at all. Zaino is waaay overrated.

Mr Hyde

I live in NYC & also use Klasse.

For the upcoming winter, I would just go with AIO & SG; thats it. They will protect the car well, and give great results. If you have time put on multiple coats of SG. ideally you buff off a coat, but wait at least 24 hrs before you put on the next one. So if you wash & wax(AIO + SG) this weekend, and have time for another wash & wax later on, just throw on another coat of SG.

The toppers of P21S, and souveran give you a little extra pop in your shine, but they are only worth using in the summer. They dont last long, and durability is not as much of an issue in the summer since the weather will allow you to just toss on another coat at anytime.

big mike 13

aight cool... i guess ill go with the AIO and SG for now..



would those applicators be good enough?? or should i just buy them seperately.

also can anyone tell me the difference between the Sonus Acrylic Spritz and the Glanz, im thinking the Glanz helps protect it more while the spritz is only for shine?? which one should i go with or should i go with another QD?

i also was wondering, when i bought my car, i bought it used... theres a lot of raised up lines on the car from what im assuming is touch up paint, is there anyway i can level it out on the surface of my car??

thanks a lot!

Road Rage

The kit is fine - this is not like restoring a 1000 year old art masterpiece.

I thought my answer was clear, and you and the others came to the right conclusing. For a car that has to brave the elements full-time, acrylic/silicone polymers are the way to go.

big mike 13

can i apply a swirl mark remover by *hand* (hand fills, polisher removes, correct)?
or will AIO remove it. thanks a lot

Vicman17

AIO may fill or remove very minor scratches but not all of them. Store shelf swirl remover stuff like Mother's Scratch and Swirl remover or Meg's ScratchX are meant to be used by hand. Meg's pro stuff (beige bottles) like the Mirror Glaze #9 Swirl Remover can be used by hand but preferably by machine to get better results. They have "diminishing" abrasives that smooth the edges of the swirls, break down and fill the minor ones then polish the finish to make it look even.

Road Rage

I have found that nothing beats a machine, and the products made for a machine. polishing is a function of a number of factors:
heat
product capability (I mean the polish/glaze/compound, etc)
speed (repeating the polishing action fast)
the pad used (polishing, cutting, etc.)

That said, unless you know what you are doing and know the products you are using, you can get into real trouble when trying to remove paint defects (swirls, spider-webbing, small scratches, etc). With a small surface defect, one can almost completely remove it. For defects that are into the clear, the objective is to minimize them, by filling the defect and/or removing its sharp edges, so it does not reflect the light as much.

I have had much experience over the years, and can tell in a few seconds how to deal wqith a defect. In many cases, I can go from an aggressive "cutting" compound to progressively less abrasive ones, ending up with a glaze that fills and polishes and "wets" the finish with oils. Sometimes, to speed thing sup, I will wet sand with 1500, then 2000, and then start with a medium cutting material, and so on until I get to the polish/glaze/wax topcoating.

Defects that go into the basecoat are beyond polishing - one nees to touch up the area, or do a serious sand/repaint.

If you are too aggressive, you can damage the clearcoat - and that is that - serious rework is required.

Griot's has a good system. What they udnerstand is that experience counts - they have found the right combo og polishes, pads, and machine.

Whatever you do, the basics never change:

1) Use a machine that lasts, so you can learn its action, and benefit from your experience using it - what works, what does not. I use a Porter-Cable
2) There is no such thing as "random orbital" action - such polishers reduce the repetitive motion, but you will find they still tend to move on one direction or another more often than not.
3) Once you find the polishes/compounds, etc that work, stick with them - then you will know when they have set up, and will not keep polishing when they have dried up - stop too soon and you do not get ther full benefit of the material - wait too long and you can burn the finish
4) Keep siliconed materials (pads, towels especially) away from non-siliconed materials if re-painting is planned, or if the paint finish is new. Glazes like 3M's have no wax or silicone in them.

What do i use?

I use the Porter Cable with the Velcro fastening backplate, set uup for small (6-8") pads.

I use 3M polishes and glazes from their professional line. I know their characteristics, and have found that they are always at the leading edge of technology - a well-run, outstanding firm with great R&D resources. Since I work in R&D for a Fortune 5 company, I am pretty adept at gauging a company's know-how.

I use Meguiar's pads (6.5") of various types. I know their action, like the rounded edges, and am not a fan of the "waffled" pads.

I buy most of my stuff from www.carecareonline.com Te prices are good, they stock a lot of material, ship promptly, and have never messed up. They have lots of good sense and knwoeldge posted ont heir website, free for the taking. I recommend it.

I also have bought from proper car care - they do a fine job as well.

dashotgun

check out http://autopia.org/ it is a detailing forum and great bunch of car folks I have done my supra in the aio sg and ps21 great results I ahve heard that souvrain is better on a dark car. Since your car is used you may want ot buff it with 3m smr( swirl remover) but to get good results you need a random orbit buffer like the porter cable Note this is an 11 year old car