TLProspect

I am going to be purchasing an random orbital buffer soon and want to get:

1)An abrasive polish that will take out minor white scratches and moderate, noticible swirls marks

2)A sealant for protection of the paint afterwords (had heard great things about Klasse AIO, but I didn't know if the cleaning properties would be detrimental after polishing with an abrasive polish or compound?)

3)A wax to go on top of the sealant for the extra depth and shine. Is this really beneficial and how do I go about doing this (how long do I wait after I have applied the sealant, etc.)?

Now I know I will also be using a clay bar to take contaimenents out of the paint. I just wanted to get recommendations on which products to buy for my 3 needs listed above, and what steps I go in for detaliing the car (is it wash, clay, polish, sealent, wax?) and can I apply the sealent and wax both with the buffer?

I know it's a lot of questions but I really want to get it right and restore the beauty in the paint- plus I trust the recommendations here.

smr2112

I just did my wife's ML350 so here is some fresh experience. I used
the following yesterday - wash car first with a good soap -
not dish washing liquid.

1 - Meguiars Quick Clay with a 2nd bucket of soapy water and sponge as lube
2 - Klasse AIO with a cheap RO Polisher to apply, remove by hand
3 - 2 coats of Klasse SG on and off by hand. Separated by 12 hours

All 3 of those were great and the car looks awesome. As a first time user
of Klasse I can say I'm totally sold. It was the easiest wax experience I've
ever had. It took me all day, but was well worth the time.

To clay, I washed the car, rinsed, made a 2nd soap bucket with a
microfiber sponge used to follow around the car as I clayed. I used
a half-dollar piece of clay and used very little. 2 pieces this size did
the whole car. The paint on this car was very good, so it was easy,
but don't skip any steps and you won't be sorry. I'd say use the
polisher only for putting on the AIO with a foam bonnet and it
benefits from the extra polishing action since it is a polish. The rest
can be done by hand with microfiber towels. It's so easy to use,
it's not worth getting carried away with the RO Polisher.

The polisher I used was a $25 6" hand held Vector polisher from
PepBoys. I was a little skeptical, but for as little as I'd use it,
figured I'd take a chance, I just had to buy a good foam bonnet
for it - it did great and was worth the cheap price.

The AIO took out the light swirl marks, I was surprised, but they
were light ones. The AIO isn't abrasive at all. If you're paint is
really bad, I'd use something more intense.

Vicman17

Before you apply a sealant like Klasse, fix the swirls and paint defects first, 'coz you'll lock those in if you apply the sealant on bad finish. Claying just makes sure that the paint is thoroughly cleaned before anything else, but remember that a clayed car has zero protection so you have to apply the sealant right after claying.

You can't go wrong with the Meguiar's Professional line. They have a guide on the label that gives you an abrasion rating from light, moderate to heavy. Try #83 Dual Action Cleaner Polish (DACP) or #9 Swirl Remover 2.0. Both have abrasives that break down on the finish (needs longer application and best applied by machine). A friend of mine swears by #9 using a foam pad of an RO polisher.

Another good product is Meg's ColorX which is a cleaner and polish in one for light swirls but not as good a cleaner as #9.

Once you get the clearcoat evened out and polished, you can do the Klasse AIO, then 2-3 coats of the SG. smr2112's method seems pretty good. I have had good success with 3-4 coats of SG topped off with Meg's Pro #26 Yellow Wax (pure Carnauba). Cleaner waxes even the ones that say "carnauba" has mild abrasive and it will remove whatever you previously used on the paint. Pure Carnauba without the "cleaner" properties add more gloss to the already impressive Klasse. Remember that wax wears off the finish after a few weeks, so having it on top of a good sealant just adds an extra layer of protection besides the extra gloss.

I lent my old Black and Decker 6 1/2" polisher to a co-worker who did his pickup truck. After claying and using Meg's #9, he had 2 coats of NXT (first machine applied and second by hand) then a coat of his leftover Meg's #16 paste (an old product). His truck (dark blue) shines like it's wet. Much better than just with the wax alone.

Remember to wash the foam pads with Dawn soap in-between uses and dry thoroughly (or better yet have several bonnets handy).

Also, use the products sparingly. 2 light coats are much better than a single heavy one.

Our Pros exceldetail and Residual Freedom offer great advice on this particular forum.

TLProspect

Well my TL has noticible paint blemishes, scratches (not fingernail deep, but noticible) and moderate swirls, so I need something abrasicve.

Also, since using the clay bar means the car has "no protection" and you said that I should apply the sealent immediately after, does that mean I should abrasive polish before using the clay bar on the car??

Vicman17

Clay bar removes "dug-in" contaminants that cannot be removed by polishing or using a paint cleaner alone. IMO claying should be the first step in prepping the finish. These particles may cause even further scratches to the paint/ clearcoat. I think cleaning the surface with the clay strips the paint of previous waxes and polishes but exposes the bare surface that would yield to better results when you use the abrasive polish. You may find the finish "squeaky clean" after claying then it can only get better after that.

Try a small area first and see the results of claying, cleaning/ polishing, wax. I test mine on the rear pillar behind the rear door, and that now seems to be the best looking part of the car.

My steps would be:

1. Claying- cleaning the surface and preparing it to be polished

2. Cleaning- removing defects and scratches (like using ScratchX)

3. Polishing- bringing the shine out of the clearcoat/ surface

(both 2 and 3 could be done one step with ColorX, SR 2 #9 or DACP #83 Klasse AIO has cleaners that can remove very minor swirls and scratches)

4. Sealing- locking in the shine and protecting the finish

(Using Klasse SG or Wolfgang DGPS)

5. Waxing- adding an extra layer of protection over sealant and provide extra "water beading" (Mother's Phase 3, Meg's #16, #26 HTYW, P21S/ S100 or even Gold Class)

You can do away with waxing for now as it can be done anytime after. A product like Klasse SG will stay there for months and can be topped off with wax once it's cured.



I heard Meg's has a money back guarantee and they can recommend another product if one doesn't work for you.

lokman

I agree with the advice given above, and I will second the use of Meg's #83 DACP. Some additional tips: when polishing, always start with the less abrasive products and then go to more aggressive ones if required. Unfortunately, this sometimes means buying a whole lot of products that take up $$$, so instead I use different foam pads to control the level of abrasiveness. I have a cutting pad (more abrasive) and a polishing pad (less abrasive) that I use with DACP on a Porter Cable random orbit polisher and it works fine for me.

And a quick question for the others on this thread: after polishing, is it important to wash the car again before applying sealant or wax to ensure proper bonding to the paint?

Vicman17

I wish I had a PC polisher too with job specific pads, it will make the work much more worthwhile.

Anyway, for me I never hesitate to wash. After claying / polishing, I wash a section at a time and then apply sealant as I go. So I begin with the roof, wash it, squeegee it dry with a CWB then proceed with the sealant, then the hood/ trunk and so on. This way I know I don't miss anything.

I think Meg's #9 is less abrasive than #83 DACP but easier to remove and these products are worth keeping for problems down the road. You can even try Deep Crystal #2 ($5.00) which is even less abrasive than #9, but you probably would get better cleaning with ColorX. ColorX is great used with the ordinary RO polisher cause it hazes pretty good and easy to wipe off with a MF towel.

If you do it a section at a time, it's much more gratifying 'coz you see the car slowly getting better (which may even lead you to do the second coat of SG (best results is SG layers spaced a day apart).

Maybe exceldetail can comment 'coz he has good experience with these products.

TLProspect

I would probably need the most abrasive of the products to remove the scratches.

Does anyone have any experience with Menzerna? I saw their products on Autopia and Classic Detail websites and was interested in their Intensive Polish.

ResidualFreedom

Nope, you're fine. From my experience, I will apply sealant or an AIO (cleaner, another polish, and a sealant) directly on to the surface after the polish.

One thing I can't stress enough is, get a good polisher!!! I reccomend the portercable 7424 (there is another code for the same porter cable polisher, it has different attachments, but considering the attachments suck and I get Lake Country pads and velcro backing plate, it is the exact same polisher. It will save hours and hours of labour, and the results will be far greater than typicl results achieved by other dual-action-random-orbital polishers. Trust me....I have two polishers that I've used under 5 times because they are just not powerful enough to do anything...one is a Symonize 10" orbital polisher...crap!!! The thing has no power at all, when you touch it to the surface of the car it stops spinning and just shakes your hands, lol


I'm heading out to Home Depot now, I'll post later on the steps for cleaning the car, swirls and all.

exceldetail

TL, always clay prior to polishing. This will also help to remove and residue which may have "stuck around" after claying. Without a PC, results will sort of be limited, theres no sense in using a agressive polish if you cant take full advantage of it, such a Megs 83. I would start with Meg's #80 and see what you can do with that. Also use a cotton applicator as oppossed to microfiber, cotton has some additional bite. Make sure you use straight application and removal lines to deter further swirling. You may not be able to reach your level of satisfaction by hand, but you can minimize the vertical "light catching edge" of the swirl itself. This may hold you over until your willing to purchase a PC.
You will be ok, not sealing immediatley if you keep it in the garage. or even outside, just go overit with a MF before sealing or waxing. Try not to drive it though !

TLProspect

I said in my original post that I am getting a PC I forgot to say that it would be a 7424, the only one I would consider after reading posts here!

carcar

I would also consider the Menzerna FMJ (Full Molecular Jacket) sealant. Apply it with a PC 7424, and if you have swirls, do Final Polish II and their Glaze for great results. The great thing is that it last up to 7 months!

carcar

TOGWT

Quote: Does anyone have any experience with Menzerna? I saw their products on Autopia and Classic Detail websites and was interested in their Intensive Polish.

~One mans opinion / observations~

Menzerna products were formulated to be used with the heat of a HS rotary polisher, having said that they can be used with a random orbital polisher.

Menzerna Intensive Polish- can be used as a spot compound to remove 2000 grit swirls, scratches and paint defects or as a whole panel compound to restore dull, oxidized or chalky finishes.

Menzerna Final Polish II- this polish can be used after compounding or anytime as a preparatory step to waxing. Removes old wax, minor spider webbing and creates a clean, smooth, highly reflective surface

Menzerna FMJ- the initials stand for Full Molecular Jacket. FMJ is an advanced, water-based, polymer paint protectant incorporating the latest in German super-polymer technology. It is not in the strictest sense a wax, as it contains no Carnauba wax, bee’s wax or German Montan waxes.

Don't allow Menzerna polish to ‘dust’, work while it is still wet. If you find it beginning to dust, re-apply a small amount or wet the pad with some water."

~Hope this helps~

Knowledge unshared is experience wasted
justadumbarchitect / so I question everything/ Jon

TLProspect

Would this work?

1) Wash the car with dawn to take off wax currently on car
2) Clay
3) polish with an Porter Oribital Buffer, yellow cutting foam pad, and abrasive polish (can someone recommend a really effective, but not harmful abrasive polish (I had thought Menzerna Intensive Polish, maybe there is something better?
4) Maybe a glaze with the buffer?
5) Sealant
6) Wax for effect

How does this sound? Any other advice, and recommendations?

MikeDDynamics

If you are looking at the PC as a choice, also look at the Cyclo. We've used our in our shop for over 8 years, almost 24/7 without any problems.

TLProspect

Could anyone comment on this process? Sound good or not?

BTW, thanks for the tip about the Cyclo, looking at all of my options

Vicman17

I'd skip the Dawn soap thing. It will remove the waxes but will damage some of the non-painted surfaces like the rubber seals, etc.

Claying should remove the waxes/ polishes and other stuff that's on the paint.

MikeDDynamics

Vicman17 is correct that Dawn will dry out the rubber parts of your car if used constantly. You are safe if you don't use it on every car wash and if it is used only to strip the old wax and detailing products off your car's paint prior to detailing it (gives you a fresh start). Subsequent washes between full details should be done with a quality car wash shampoo.

Here is what I added to the sticky thread on Proper Washing Techniques on car wash shampoos:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95408

"First, we need to choose an appropriate car wash shampoo. Most of the over-the-counter soaps to stay away from contain solvents, sodium, or harsh detergents that will erode the wax. Dishwashing and laundry detergents are inappropriate because of their high alkaline content (I still have people insisting that it's ok to wash their car with Dawn every week. My reply to that is "Would you wash your dishes with car wash?). The finest shampoos are biodegradable, pH balanced, and will not strip your car's wax nor dry its vinyl and rubber. Some of the better shampoos also contain natural oils to reduce the possibility of minute scratches by suspending small particles above the surface and water softeners to prevent those dreaded water spots. Even microscopic dust particles take on the characteristics of sandpaper when rubbed across your car. Realizing this, by the way, should dispel the old-timer belief that it is best to wash using only plain water (in the "old days" some hot rodders put a few drops of vegetable oil in the car wash to give it lubricity). A quick way to test the lubricity of a shampoo is to rub a small amount of it between your fingers - it should feel very slippery."

Also, your listed steps are correct. Depending on your claying method, you may want to re-wash the clayed surfaces after claying. Also, sometimes you will find fine polishes and glazes to be synonymous.

You should also add an instant detailer to clean and prep the surface between detailing steps (i.e. don't want to have left over compound on your paint when you are polishing or glazing). Between details, also use an instant detailer after washing your car to prolong the sealant/wax protection and to remove water marks left over from washing. Some ID's have sealant or wax in them.

Hope that helps and pm me if you have any ?'s.