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Bluetooth primer and phone information

 
Old 12-05-2003, 08:45 PM
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Nokia 6310i is truly hands free but does not send info to the display
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Old 12-06-2003, 01:08 AM
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With my SE T616, the HFL recognizes and links up with the phone as soon as I get into the car - I don't have to touch the phone at all. The little phone icon shows up on the center dashboard display, and if I have the MID set to display the HFL page, the signal strength and battery level appear automagically. In other words, it works precisely the way you would expect it to work.
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Old 12-06-2003, 09:19 AM
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Which ones specifically are truly hands-free and which ones require connection?

Jon
I'm not sure I understand the question. These are all Hands-Free phones. It is just that some (the T68i and the N-gage I think are the only ones) will drop the Bluetooth connection after the pairing process only. If you do a "Select Phone" command from the HFL or select the Connect menu item from the phone they will connect. Again this is ONLY just after pairing. All other times they will connect automatically. Not sure why these phone do this, it is just what they chose to do.
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Old 12-06-2003, 10:16 AM
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You have to understand that someone like me who has never had a BT phone isn't really understanding this stuff because I have no context.

When you say they drop BT connection after pairing... I don't know what this means. My assumption is that I then need to re-establish a BT link every time the phone gets near the car so I can make a call. If this is not the case, I don't know when you "reconnect" the BT connection after it's initially dropped.

You see? Confusing.



Originally posted by Maxfli
I'm not sure I understand the question. These are all Hands-Free phones. It is just that some (the T68i and the N-gage I think are the only ones) will drop the Bluetooth connection after the pairing process only. If you do a "Select Phone" command from the HFL or select the Connect menu item from the phone they will connect. Again this is ONLY just after pairing. All other times they will connect automatically. Not sure why these phone do this, it is just what they chose to do.
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Old 12-06-2003, 10:36 AM
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You have to understand that someone like me who has never had a BT phone isn't really understanding this stuff because I have no context.

When you say they drop BT connection after pairing... I don't know what this means. My assumption is that I then need to re-establish a BT link every time the phone gets near the car so I can make a call. If this is not the case, I don't know when you "reconnect" the BT connection after it's initially dropped.

You see? Confusing.
Ok, let me see if I can simplify. If you had a 'smart' headset that included a keypad, there would be a wire between the headset and the phone, right? Bluetooth replaces the wire. The pairing process replaces the human putting a plug into a socket and requires a human response on both ends of the virtual wire (the 4 digit number you manually enter at both ends). This prevents any BT device from randomly connecting.

Does that help?
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Old 12-06-2003, 10:59 AM
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sfintel,

Nope. Not at all. Thanks for trying though.

I understand Bluetooth as a concept and a technology. But I've never used it. So, I totally understand that you need to pair devices together to form an ad-hoc secure network.

What I DON'T understand is this disconnect/reconnect language being used on this thread.

In my mind, once paired, there is no longer any need to set anything on the phone ever again. The car and phone should automatically see each other every time the phone is within 30 feet of the car. Period.

But, I read on this thread that there are 'disconnects' and you have to go to the bluetooth menu of the phone to reconnect. I don't know what this is, or if you have to do it every time, or what.

This seems to differ phone to phone, which makes it all the more confusing.

Jon

Originally posted by sfintel
Ok, let me see if I can simplify. If you had a 'smart' headset that included a keypad, there would be a wire between the headset and the phone, right? Bluetooth replaces the wire. The pairing process replaces the human putting a plug into a socket and requires a human response on both ends of the virtual wire (the 4 digit number you manually enter at both ends). This prevents any BT device from randomly connecting.

Does that help?
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Old 12-06-2003, 11:06 AM
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
But, I read on this thread that there are 'disconnects' and you have to go to the bluetooth menu of the phone to reconnect.
I've got a Bluetooth phone (Siemens S56), and I'm not sure what 'disconnects' are either. I did have my PC lose its pairing information for the phone, which of course interfered with my ability to sync Outlook with the phone, but the car and phone have stayed paired since I originally configured them.

I have had the phone be unable to sustain the link when its battery was low, but a recharged battery brings it right back.

Mike
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Old 12-06-2003, 12:51 PM
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
sfintel,

Nope. Not at all. Thanks for trying though.

I understand Bluetooth as a concept and a technology. But I've never used it. So, I totally understand that you need to pair devices together to form an ad-hoc secure network.

What I DON'T understand is this disconnect/reconnect language being used on this thread.

In my mind, once paired, there is no longer any need to set anything on the phone ever again. The car and phone should automatically see each other every time the phone is within 30 feet of the car. Period.

But, I read on this thread that there are 'disconnects' and you have to go to the bluetooth menu of the phone to reconnect. I don't know what this is, or if you have to do it every time, or what.

This seems to differ phone to phone, which makes it all the more confusing.

Jon
Getting back to the wire replacement analogy, imagine that each device can spit it's own wire back out for reasons only known by the programmer. I'm sure there's some logic that would explain why some phones 'spit their wire out' but I can't guess what that would be. I've seen a few rare occasions there this has happened to my SET616, but I've always written this off to some interference that garbled the message between the phone and the HFL (i.e. 'a short in the wire' to use my analogy). Perhaps some phones have poorer Bluetooth transcievers... Who knows?
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Old 12-06-2003, 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
You have to understand that someone like me who has never had a BT phone isn't really understanding this stuff because I have no context.

When you say they drop BT connection after pairing... I don't know what this means. My assumption is that I then need to re-establish a BT link every time the phone gets near the car so I can make a call. If this is not the case, I don't know when you "reconnect" the BT connection after it's initially dropped.

You see? Confusing.
Yes I see. You are correct that every time you come near the car (provided the car is running) a Bluetooth connection is made. This is called the ACL.

What I am referring to is the initial setup proceedure (called Pairing). When you first wish to use the phone with the HFL you have to go through this procedure. Most phones will maintain the ACL after the Pairing is complete. The T68i and, it appears, the N-Gage will drop the ACL after pairing. So the user needs to reinitiate the ACL ONLY if he wishes to use the HFL with the phone immeadiatly after pairing. All other times the link is created automatically when the two devices come together. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-06-2003, 01:57 PM
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Yes, it does. So, this 'bug' or 'feature' is a one-time only event. So, then, do all compatible phones will automatically ACL after the initial pairing is complete?

Jon

Originally posted by Maxfli
Yes I see. You are correct that every time you come near the car (provided the car is running) a Bluetooth connection is made. This is called the ACL.

What I am referring to is the initial setup proceedure (called Pairing). When you first wish to use the phone with the HFL you have to go through this procedure. Most phones will maintain the ACL after the Pairing is complete. The T68i and, it appears, the N-Gage will drop the ACL after pairing. So the user needs to reinitiate the ACL ONLY if he wishes to use the HFL with the phone immeadiatly after pairing. All other times the link is created automatically when the two devices come together. Hope this helps.
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Old 12-07-2003, 02:42 PM
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I've seen quite a few posts regarding the Nokia 3650 works with the HFL, but does not display signal strength, battery level & incoming call #. I believe the 3650 (& maybe some other Nokia phones) only support Headset Profile, hence no display of the info, since these aren't needed with headset. Can anyone confirm?
Also is Bluetooth 1 = Headset profile; Bluetooth 1.1 = Hands Free Profile?
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Old 12-07-2003, 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by jshih57
I believe the 3650 (& maybe some other Nokia phones) only support Headset Profile, hence no display of the info, since these aren't needed with headset. Can anyone confirm?
I can confirm that this is not the case. If a phone (or other BT device) supports the headset profile but not the hands free profile, even if you manage to pair the device with your TL's HFL, you won't be able to do anything useful with it. You can satisfy yourself that this is true by taking a phone like the Motorola 270C, which meets the BT 1.1 specification and has the headset profile but not the hands free profile, and trying to use it - it doesn't work. The same thing is true of my laptop computer with a Belkin bluetooth dongle: I can pair it with the HFL, but that's as far as I can go.

The HFL needs the hands free profile not only to display the signal strength, battery level, and incoming caller's phone number, but also to tell the phone which number to dial when you place a call. None of this functionalty is supported under the headset profile.

As to why the 3650 does not show the signal strength or battery level, I can only assume this is due to a flawed implementation of the HFP in that particular phone (and in that particular version of the phone's firmware). Perhaps a bug report to Nokia is in order here?
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Old 12-08-2003, 09:39 AM
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Motavar,

Thanks for the phonescoop.com tip. Great site!:worship:
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Old 12-08-2003, 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Yes, it does. So, this 'bug' or 'feature' is a one-time only event. So, then, do all compatible phones will automatically ACL after the initial pairing is complete?

Jon
This is true for the Acura TL. I cannot say for other BT carkits.
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Old 12-08-2003, 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by jshih57
I've seen quite a few posts regarding the Nokia 3650 works with the HFL, but does not display signal strength, battery level & incoming call #. I believe the 3650 (& maybe some other Nokia phones) only support Headset Profile, hence no display of the info, since these aren't needed with headset. Can anyone confirm?
Also is Bluetooth 1 = Headset profile; Bluetooth 1.1 = Hands Free Profile?
This is not a Bluetooth problem. Display of the battery and signal info was left out of the Hands-Free Profile's first release. However some phones chose to support it anyway (some did not). Later releases of the Hands-Free Profile WILL include the battery and signal indications (as well as some others).

As for the versions Bluetooth has what is called a "CORE" specification which is NOW at version 1.2 (recently, was 1.1). This CORE specifies all of the low layer functions and the application layers are defined by the various "profiles". Hands-Free Profile is currently at 1.0. This IS TO SAY that HFP 1.0 IS compatable with CORE 1.1 (users won't have to worry at all about this). In the CORE 1.0 ONLY the Headset Profile was defined Hands-Free did not yet exist. Clear? (yeah, like mud)
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Old 12-10-2003, 11:23 PM
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Able to set it up, break out the Champagne!

You know what they say about Men and directions. Well I am one of those Men. I don't have the time, like to take the time or look forward to reading "manuals". This time after practically freezing to death learning to speak "Navigator" I figured I would read and follow the directions on pairing my phone to HFL. Amazing what happens when you do just that, read and then apply the directions. Within 15 minutes I was talking hands free with my phone. I recommend the Siemens S56. I have Cingular and while the choices were slim, this is the one to get. Just my $.02.
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Old 12-10-2003, 11:47 PM
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NOPE - The P800 is NOT compatible.

First, read this. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blueinfo/message/1229


The problem is in the profile. The P800 used the "Headset Profile" which is not compatible with the in car system.

Other SE models use the HFP (Hands Free Profile) which is compatible.

I also called Sony Ericsson and got the same answer. I tried pairing my P800, and it paired OK, but the system does not work.

Anybody wanna buy 800 bucks worth of phone/pda/accessories?

I'm getting a T68i, and I'm ultra disappointed about this because I love my P800.
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Old 12-11-2003, 11:31 AM
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Re: NOPE - The P800 is NOT compatible.

Originally posted by nickademus
First, read this. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/blueinfo/message/1229


The problem is in the profile. The P800 used the "Headset Profile" which is not compatible with the in car system.

Other SE models use the HFP (Hands Free Profile) which is compatible.

I also called Sony Ericsson and got the same answer. I tried pairing my P800, and it paired OK, but the system does not work.

Anybody wanna buy 800 bucks worth of phone/pda/accessories?

I'm getting a T68i, and I'm ultra disappointed about this because I love my P800.
I would strongly recommend the Z600 is you like the Sony phones.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:18 PM
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I finially got a phone that I like that also works with my TL. Got a T630 today and so far so good. It even shows the signial and battery life. Well, I'm gonna miss my 6600 and P900, they will be on ebay within the week.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:21 PM
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Can I ask where you got the T630? From what I see it's not supposed to be available yet.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:26 PM
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http://www.gsmphonesource.com/produc...tomer/home.php

I always get my phones from here. The phone is a chinese version. So the the manual is in chinese, but the phone itself has an Engish language setting.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:31 PM
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I would have gotten the new nokia 6820, but I had problems with my nokia 6600 and I didn't want to run into those same problems.
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Old 12-11-2003, 02:48 PM
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If anyone does buy a phone from this site, don't forget to tell him Kay sent ya. I'd really appreciate it.
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Old 12-12-2003, 10:17 AM
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Anyone here ever heard of Quadraphonic sound?

Probably not. You know why? It was good technology that was never standardized. Record companies, and stereo manufacturers didn't know which "type" of Quadraphonic sound to produce. The market blew up.

Sound familiar? Hands Free Profile; Handset Profile These electronics are to expensive to have to throw away when some new version comes out.
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Old 12-12-2003, 10:56 AM
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Originally posted by nickademus
Anyone here ever heard of Quadraphonic sound?

Probably not. You know why? It was good technology that was never standardized. Record companies, and stereo manufacturers didn't know which "type" of Quadraphonic sound to produce. The market blew up.

Sound familiar? Hands Free Profile; Handset Profile These electronics are to expensive to have to throw away when some new version comes out.
Not a matter of having to "throw away when a new version comes out". Newer version of profiles are completely backward compatible.
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:12 AM
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Is that right? So why can't I use my SE P800 with this car?
Do I throw away the phone or the car? Apparently they ARE NOT compatible...............Read the whole thread.
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:17 AM
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Hang on folks...

The issue here isn't Bluetooth... it's the communications and marketing of Bluetooth.

Bluetooth has several modes of operation. The problem is, manufacturers aren't specifying clearly the type of modes their phones support!

Ideally, all BT phones would support all modes (profiles). But they don't.

The "hands free profile" is the Bluetooth mode that is required to make it work with the TL. Many phones only support other profiles.

Manufacturers have to realize that they need to be more specific with what kind of Bluetooth they support. It's not all or nothing with Bluetooth.

This does feed into the current problem with technology and mainstream consumers: most new technologies are too complex to explain in a bullet point.

Jon

Originally posted by nickademus
Is that right? So why can't I use my SE P800 with this car?
Do I throw away the phone or the car? Apparently they ARE NOT compatible...............Read the whole thread.
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:49 AM
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Very well stated Jon. I realize Bluetooth technology is a good thing. I am an extremely technical person, and had my P800 doing wheelies, getting the most out of the technology.

From a consumer standpoint, (mainstream or not) if you buy a phone with bluetooth connectivity, it is only logical to assume that means it can "connect" to other devices that use bluetooth.
Of course, most likely those other devices would be things that make sense, such as headsets and hands free systems.

I think you're absolutely right in stating that manufacturers aren't specifying clearly. In fact, I doubt you can find bluetooth profile type on any manufacturer's website.

But this whole thing still puts consumers in the position of making sure for example that their phone and headsets are compatible.........no problem for most of us, only to find out that some new systems are not compatible with them. Understandable I guess, but frustrating nonetheless. The SE P800/P900 phones represent some of the latest and best mobile phone technology available today. I would understand if you couldn't use these phones to buy a coke from a bluetooth coke machine, but not to be able to use a handsfree system because HFP and HSP anren't cross-compatible? I don't understand this.

I realize I may be beating a dead horse here, but we have stimulated some interesting converstation in this thread, even if most of it was from replies to my rants.
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:54 AM
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We need to impress upon the manufacturers that, with the introduction of the TL, they need to be more percise in their brochures as to what aspects of Bluetooth they support!

Indeed, if Acura were on the ball, they'd already be reaching out to the big guys to have them say "Acura TL compatible!" in their advertisements

We're still in the early stages (the bleeding edge can hurt sometimes), so there is obviously some confusion about bluetooth capability and compatibility.

Acura has done a good job of having a list on-line of compatible phones. They need to make sure they keep it up to date as new phones emerge. They even setup a website just for this purpose:

http://www.handsfreelink.com

So, that's a very good start for Acura!

Jon
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Old 12-12-2003, 11:55 AM
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Hmmm, I just went to handsfreelink.com to see that they have updated the list already!

Kudos Acura!

Jon
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:19 PM
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Originally posted by nickademus
Is that right? So why can't I use my SE P800 with this car?
Do I throw away the phone or the car? Apparently they ARE NOT compatible...............Read the whole thread.

Yes these are not compatable. The P800 uses the HEADSET profile. The car has the HANDS FREE profile. These are two different types of devices.
What I said was that NEW Hands-Free Profile releases WILL be compatible with previous HAND FREE devices (not headsets).
There is a major difference between these two completely different profiles. Did some one tell you that the P800 supports Hands-Free?
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Old 12-12-2003, 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by nickademus
Anyone here ever heard of Quadraphonic sound?
I used to have about a half-dozen quadraphonic LPs. In fact, I should dig them out of the closet and burn them onto a DVD and play them in my TL!
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by kay
I finially got a phone that I like that also works with my TL. Got a T630 today and so far so good. It even shows the signial and battery life. Well, I'm gonna miss my 6600 and P900, they will be on ebay within the week.
I'm down to either the Z600, the T630, or the 6600 Nokia.
I figure the 6600 should work with the car as ALL Nokia phones use HFP. Kay, can you tell me why you're getting rid of it?
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:26 AM
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SE T616 vs Siemens S56??

AT&T Wireless has the T616 for free and the S56 for $30 (contract required). I've seen lots of positive comments about the T616. What about the S56? Anyone?
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:29 AM
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Read the fine print, and compare the rate plans. You could pay for the phone in 1 month with overage and "out of major metro" area calls.
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Old 12-13-2003, 10:46 AM
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You can pick about any rate plan they have, local or national. Requires 2 year contract.
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Old 12-13-2003, 11:01 AM
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Re: SE T616 vs Siemens S56??

Originally posted by nfnsquared
AT&T Wireless has the T616 for free and the S56 for $30 (contract required). I've seen lots of positive comments about the T616. What about the S56? Anyone?
I own the S56 and it is one of the best phones that I have ever owned. It works great with the car, paired up in no time. The guy at the store told me that the software is compatible with MS outlook so I can transfer my contact info from my pc to the phone and vice versa. It also has speaker phone which, for me, is crucial for checking voice mails.

The only problem I had with it was that in the phonebook you have to list different numbers for the same person separately, but if you use the address book instead of the phonebook as your default contact list the problem is solved.
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:31 PM
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I don't have experience with Siemens S56, but I briefly had a different Siemens GSM phone and it sucked big time in the area being able to pick up and hold weak signals. I had a lot of drop-outs until I returned the phone and got Nokia 6200.
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Old 12-13-2003, 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by nickademus
I'm down to either the Z600, the T630, or the 6600 Nokia.
I figure the 6600 should work with the car as ALL Nokia phones use HFP. Kay, can you tell me why you're getting rid of it?
I would certainly stay away from the 6600. It has problems in working with the TL. Nokia has promised a fix but won't say when.
The Z600 works quite well. As does the 6310i from Nokia.
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Old 12-13-2003, 01:02 PM
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Re: SE T616 vs Siemens S56??

Originally posted by nfnsquared
AT&T Wireless has the T616 for free and the S56 for $30 (contract required). I've seen lots of positive comments about the T616. What about the S56? Anyone?
I would opt for the T616. The S56 has some internal problems. It will sometimes display "INTERNAL BLUETOOTH ERROR". Siemens has said it has to do with their power save mode. They have provided instructions on how to disable power save mode.
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