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Bluetooth primer and phone information

Old 11-08-2003, 06:34 PM
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Bluetooth primer and phone information

What is bluetooth? - Bluetooth is a standard developed by a group of electronics manufacturers that allows any sort of electronic equipment -- from computers and cell phones to keyboards and headphones -- to make its own connections, without wires, cables or any direct action from a user. Bluetooth is intended to be a standard that works at two levels:

It provides agreement at the physical level -- Bluetooth is a radio-frequency standard.

It also provides agreement at the next level up, where products have to agree on when bits are sent, how many will be sent at a time and how the parties in a conversation can be sure that the message received is the same as the message sent.

The companies belonging to the Bluetooth Special Interest Group, and there are more than 1,000 of them, want to let Bluetooth's radio communications take the place of wires for connecting peripherals, telephones and computers.

Ok so what cell phones work with my TL? - To work with the TL the phone needs to support bluetooth 1.1 specification and also have a wireless or hands-free profile. The car uses this profile to use the settings of the phone.

Ok so again what phones work with my TL? - There are only a small number of compatible phones are the market currently. Here is a list.

SonyEriccsson
T68i (discontinued model)
T61c
T62u
T610/616 (soon defunct model, has some echo issues)
P800

Siemens
S56

Nokia
3600
3650
N-Gage
6310i

Models that will be available soon and should work with the car:

SonyEriccsson
Z600
T630
P900

Nokia
3620
6820
6830
6320
7700

Panaonic
x70

Motorola
v600
v500

What cell phone companies have phones that support bluetooth? - Currently the major companies that have phones that support bluetooth are the companies that offer GSM support. That would be AT&T Wireless, T-mobile and Cingular in the US. Verizon and Sprint users are SOL for the forseeable future.

Might want to sticky this one.
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Old 11-10-2003, 09:55 AM
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Re: Bluetooth primer and phone information

Originally posted by chadr
To work with the TL the phone needs to support bluetooth 1.1 specification and also have a wireless or headset profile.
Don't you mean hands-free profile? Or will the TL use the headset profile, as well?
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Old 11-10-2003, 10:04 AM
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Nope you are correct I edited the post accordingly. Someone should sticky this thread since this gets posted about 9x a day.
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:21 PM
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Can someone sticky this so less questions are posted about it?
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Old 11-13-2003, 03:29 PM
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thanks done!!!!
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Old 11-13-2003, 08:08 PM
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Does anyone else own a nextel phone??

I am curious as to whether the Jabra system will work with the bluetooth system in the TL




-Chad
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Old 11-13-2003, 10:49 PM
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If you mean the external bluetooth solutions that plug into the phone and then allow you to use a headset they will not work with the TL. The TL has to have the hands-free profile to work.

Far as nextel goes to the best of my knowledge they have no bluetooth phones.
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Old 11-13-2003, 10:56 PM
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that's what I was afraid of. Hopefully Nextel will try and compete with the other cell providers once the 2 way feature gets more popular.

-Chad
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Old 11-14-2003, 12:30 AM
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How to Exploit the New Cell-Phone Rules
Thu Nov 6, 4:58 PM ET

By Aleksandra Todorova

THERE ARE JUST 17 days until wireless (news - web sites) local number portability goes into effect. It's definitely something worth talking about.


The Federal Communications Commission (news - web sites) wireless number portability mandate, which will allow cell-phone users to take their phone numbers with them when they switch carriers, begins on Nov. 24 for the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas. The rest of the country will be covered by May 24, 2004.


Cell-phone companies have plenty of reasons to be worried. "Consumers will be in a better bargaining position because this was the last hook carriers had over their users," says Alan Keiter, president and founder of MyRatePlan.com, a consumer-information Web site for wireless and long-distance plans. "They will be less tolerant of flaws in the carriers' networks and customer service because they won't be as tied to one carrier." [more...]

-r
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Old 11-14-2003, 07:38 AM
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I spoke with a SprintPCS representative at my local BestBuy the other day who told me that the Sony T608 would be released before Christmas and would be supported. I was also warned NOT to buy one from the Internet, etc, unless it had the Sprint logo, since even CDMA phones are provider-tuned, so to speak. Has anyone else heard anything?

The above mentioned article is really good and a recommended read. I will not be jumping ship immediately anyway, as I feel, like other markets, that the cel-phone industry will be dumping prices after Christmas, so I'll wait for the after Christmas sales!
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Old 11-14-2003, 07:58 AM
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Well SE announced that it was pulling the plug on CDMA phones so I don't know if the t608 will ever see the light of day. We actually have Verizon to thank for SE dropping CDMA support.
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:52 AM
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Re: Bluetooth primer and phone information

Originally posted by chadr

SonyEriccsson
T610/616 (soon defunct model, has some echo issues)
This begs the question: which phone(s) work BEST with the Hands Free Link? Which one has the best sound quality, glitch-free operation, good reception, best feature set, etc.?

It's a given that a bunch of people are going to be switching providers and/or buying new phones in order to take advantage of the Hands Free Link, this info will be of great interest to a lot of people.

Anyone?
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:58 AM
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How can I set up a HandFreeLink Phonebook entry for accessing voicemails? E.g. that will send a string of pauses (#), mailbox number, then password.

Haven't been able to figure this one out yet.
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Old 11-14-2003, 11:05 AM
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fuque - honestly I don't know. I believe the Nokias have been tested to work well and the t68i was reported to work well. The 610/616 are known to have bluetooth echo issues in general, not just with the TL.

In my case I am going to look at the z600 from SE and the v500 from Motorola. I have heard good things about the x70 from Panasonic as well. I am sure the t630 SE will resolve the issues as well but it will not be available until early next year.

mbidwell - no idea. I don't have a TL or a phone yet so I can't even work on figuring out the answer. It is entirely possible that the TL is not capable of that or simply that we haven't figured it out yet. When actually have a TL I will work on figuring it out. My car is supposed to arrive in the next several days so I am hoping to be able to play soon.
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Old 11-14-2003, 12:47 PM
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The 610/616 are known to have bluetooth echo issues in general, not just with the TL.
I have the T616 and don't have any echo problems with either the TL or two different bluetooth headsets that I've tried.

--Steve Fintel
'04TL/6MT/Silver/Ebony
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Old 11-14-2003, 12:51 PM
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Yeah doesn't seem to be a 100% thing on the echo but has been reported numerous times on this and other forums.
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Old 11-14-2003, 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by mbidwell
How can I set up a HandFreeLink Phonebook entry for accessing voicemails? E.g. that will send a string of pauses (#), mailbox number, then password.

Haven't been able to figure this one out yet.
Not a great solution, but what I've done is store an entry named "Voice Mail PIN". After I dial voice mail, I hit the talk button and say, "send Voice Mail Pin".
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Old 11-14-2003, 04:42 PM
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I have the SonyEricsson P800, and I tried pairing the phone up with the TL during my test drive but it wouldn't work.

I followed the instructions that came with the car, and put my P800 on the "discoverable" mode. My phone detected the TL's signal and the "hands-free link" device appeared in the list. It seemed at this point that the phone was paired up.

However, when I selected the "Call" voice command, the TL's system said "No phone detected". I had made sure that my P800's bluetooth status was on. Tried this a few times and eventually gave up. It seems to me that either the car's system was faulty, or my P800 doesn't have the Hands Free Profile as Chadr indicated.

Anyone have a suggestion as to what the problem could be?
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Old 11-14-2003, 04:57 PM
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sonus - hmm dunno why yours wouldn't have worked. Far as I know people are using the p800 with the TL. I would make sure you have the latest software for the p800 and give it a try in another TL. Bluetooth as far as I can tell doesn't have all the bugs worked out of it yet. Seems like a promising technology but it is still pretty new in larger applicatins like this.
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Old 11-14-2003, 05:09 PM
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Chadr

Thanks for your feedback. Maybe it was the car...I'll have to test it again. Btw, I called SonyEricsson, and they said that the P800 doesn't have the Hands Free Profile needed for the TL. However, the customer rep didn't sound too sure about this.

Guess I'll try again...I hope it really works as this was one of the features that got me excited about the TL!
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Old 11-14-2003, 05:55 PM
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Sonus - hmm it is entirely possible that it does not have the needed profile. I thought I recalled someone saying they had one and it was working properly but my memory is not what it used to be.

Since we are really still in the infancy of the whole Bluetooth thing it will be awhile before we have really good conrete info on it.
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by sonusfaber
I have the SonyEricsson P800, and I tried pairing the phone up with the TL during my test drive but it wouldn't work.

I followed the instructions that came with the car, and put my P800 on the "discoverable" mode. My phone detected the TL's signal and the "hands-free link" device appeared in the list. It seemed at this point that the phone was paired up.

However, when I selected the "Call" voice command, the TL's system said "No phone detected".
I would recommend going through the pairing procedure on your phone with another Bluetooth device, such as a Bluetooth headset, before attempting it in the TL. From what you've posted, it doesn't sound like you ever paired the phone with the HFL - specifically, you said nothing about entering the 4-digit PIN, which would be required before the pairing would succeed.

On my 270C, it will explicitly ask me if I want to pair with the other device, and I will have to enter the code. It is unmistakable when a link is established - my phone says "Connection established" when you first link up, and the word "Bluetooth" appears on the main screen as long as you remain connected.

BTW, when I first I tried pairing my 270C with one of the TL's at the dealership, the salesman had a small brochure with pairing instructions for 4 or 5 phones. The instructions in the brochure were slightly different than those on the Acura web site. The brochure seemed to be more correct, which is the opposite of what I would have expected.
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Old 11-14-2003, 10:47 PM
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I should get my TL next week and I will try to test it with my P800 and will let you know if I succeed. BTW I was told by a BMW owner that P800s won't work on those cars, so maybe it doesnt have the Hands-free profile. On the other hand if you look at the P800 Accessories on the SE website, you will see the Handsfree Car HCB-30 as an option. Please let us know if you suceed.
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Old 11-15-2003, 01:12 AM
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Cool

Got my TL and successfully paired my Nokia 3650. It works great and the sound quality is great. The only issue is that when I go to the Hands Free Link option on the multi-information display there is no signal strength or battery level displayed. I dont know what the matter is there... But the HFL work great otherwise...
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Old 11-15-2003, 08:52 AM
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Regarding the P800, Acura.ca lists the P800 as a compatible phone. Actually it differentiates it from the T68i which is listed with the Nokia 6310i as a supported phone. Does anyone know the difference between a supported phone and a compatible phone? Here is the Acura.ca link:
http://www.acura.ca/AcuraEng/Innovat...chFeatures.htm
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:26 AM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by fuque
[B] From what you've posted, it doesn't sound like you ever paired the phone with the HFL - specifically, you said nothing about entering the 4-digit PIN, which would be required before the pairing would succeed.

I forgot to mention in my initial post...I did go through this process. Entered the 4 digit PIN, and the P800 accepted the code. This was when the HFL device showed up on the P800.

However, when I used the call command, no phone was detected by the car.
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by 00TLOwner
I should get my TL next week and I will try to test it with my P800 and will let you know if I succeed. BTW I was told by a BMW owner that P800s won't work on those cars, so maybe it doesnt have the Hands-free profile. On the other hand if you look at the P800 Accessories on the SE website, you will see the Handsfree Car HCB-30 as an option. Please let us know if you suceed.
I actually have the HCB-60 headset, and it works with my P800. However, I think this uses the Headset profile, which is different from the Hands Free Profile that the TL requires.

It's strange that Acura's Canadian website lists the P800 as compatible whereas the US website doesn't list the P800 at all.

I might try to test drive the TL again today and see if it works on a different car.
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Old 11-15-2003, 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by sonusfaber
I forgot to mention in my initial post...I did go through this process. Entered the 4 digit PIN, and the P800 accepted the code. This was when the HFL device showed up on the P800.

However, when I used the call command, no phone was detected by the car.
Do you have a Bluetooth card or dongle for your PC? The one I have has a bunch of Bluetooth service profiles available, including the headset profile. Since I don't yet have a TL, I've been using my PC as a surrogate to figure out how to get a headset connection working.

By playing around, I figured out there is an extra step: once the pairing is done, I have to establish a connection. Apparently the pairing process just sets up the authentication (i.e. which devices are allowed to talk to which other devices). To actually do something, you need to establish an active connection. On my 270C, the word "Bluetooth" appears on the LCD when a connection is established.

To establish the connection, I go to the "Hands Free" menu and select "Scan All." It comes back with a list of Bluetooth devices, and I select my headset from the list and click the "Link" button. The headset sees the request from my phone to establish the link, and waits for me to either grant or deny the link request. Once I tell the headset to grant the request, the link is up and I can use the headset to make calls.

If your phone is anything like mine, the Bluetooth functions are poorly documented, and the instructions are confusing or just flat out wrong; my phone's manual described menu options that don't even exist on my phone! It might take a bit of experimenting to figure out how to get all of this working.
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Old 11-15-2003, 02:59 PM
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On my SonyEricsson T616, once the phone is paired, it automatically finds the HFL. This works for calls originated on HFL ("Dial 888-555-1111") or incoming calls. If I originate a call on the handset, I need to transfer the sound to HFL. This can be done either on HFL (say "Transfer") or using the transfer function on the phone.
-
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:06 PM
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Originally posted by sfintel
On my SonyEricsson T616, once the phone is paired, it automatically finds the HFL. This works for calls originated on HFL ("Dial 888-555-1111") or incoming calls. If I originate a call on the handset, I need to transfer the sound to HFL. This can be done either on HFL (say "Transfer") or using the transfer function on the phone.
-
I didn't know you could transfer the sound to HFL through the handset. I wonder if this is a T616-specific feature (I have a Siemens S56)? How do you do that?
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:11 PM
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I'm not impressed with the voice control capability of the HFL. It misinterprets voice commands ~70% of the time.

Are other 04TL owners experiencing the same problems?

Does anyone know if there is a control module that can be replaced?
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:22 PM
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The HFL requires that your syntax be perfect. For example if you are looking to get a chinese restaraunt you say:

Find nearest chinese restaraunt?

However if you say

Find closest chinese restaraunt?
Find chinese restaraunt?
Find THE nearest... etc

It will not work properly. In my testing with it as long as I was using the correct syntax it worked remarkabley well, however even the slightest deviation will cause it to act oddly. Also, background noise seems to make a big difference so having the windows open makes a big difference.
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Old 11-15-2003, 09:28 PM
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Originally posted by chadr
The HFL requires that your syntax be perfect. For example if you are looking to get a chinese restaraunt you say:

Find nearest chinese restaraunt?

However if you say

Find closest chinese restaraunt?
Find chinese restaraunt?
Find THE nearest... etc

It will not work properly. In my testing with it as long as I was using the correct syntax it worked remarkabley well, however even the slightest deviation will cause it to act oddly. Also, background noise seems to make a big difference so having the windows open makes a big difference.
Thanks, but I'm referring to the HFL commands, not Navi.

HFL misinterprets the simple one word command "transfer" most of the time.
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Old 11-15-2003, 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by Sparky
I didn't know you could transfer the sound to HFL through the handset. I wonder if this is a T616-specific feature (I have a Siemens S56)? How do you do that?
I can't say if that's specific to the T616. I just know it works. What doesn't work is transferring the call directly from HFL to a Bluetooth headset.
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Old 11-16-2003, 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by sfintel
I can't say if that's specific to the T616. I just know it works. What doesn't work is transferring the call directly from HFL to a Bluetooth headset.
-
Could you be specific on how you transfer a call from the handset to the HFL with the SE T616 (without using the HFL "transfer" voice command)?

The "transfer" voice command gets misinterpreted most of the time so I'd love to know how to do this with my handset.

Thanks.
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Old 11-16-2003, 10:15 AM
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Originally posted by Sparky
Could you be specific on how you transfer a call from the handset to the HFL with the SE T616 (without using the HFL "transfer" voice command)?
While in a call, hit the joystick button and you'll get a menu. The second choice down is 'Transfer sound'. Select that and all of the devices the phone has paired with that are capable of accepting the sound (in my case, that's HFL and a BT headset) are shown. Scroll to the appropriate device and hit Select. What does not work is transferring directly from one BT device to another even though the phone appears to support it.

I've noticed that under the same in-car conditions (windows closed, fan on low) there are times when HFL is very accurate and other times when it isn't. It seems tied to an entire 'session' (key on). During a session where recognition is poor, I haven't yet tried turning the key off and then back on (i.e. reboot). Next time I will.
.
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Old 11-16-2003, 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by sfintel
While in a call, hit the joystick button and you'll get a menu. The second choice down is 'Transfer sound'. Select that and all of the devices the phone has paired with that are capable of accepting the sound (in my case, that's HFL and a BT headset) are shown. Scroll to the appropriate device and hit Select. What does not work is transferring directly from one BT device to another even though the phone appears to support it.

I've noticed that under the same in-car conditions (windows closed, fan on low) there are times when HFL is very accurate and other times when it isn't. It seems tied to an entire 'session' (key on). During a session where recognition is poor, I haven't yet tried turning the key off and then back on (i.e. reboot). Next time I will.
.
Thanks for the info above. I don't think my Siemens S56 has the 'transfer sound' feature, but I wish it did.

I agree that there are times when it (HFL) is accurate and others when it is most frustrating. Most of the time it is the latter.
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Old 11-16-2003, 06:08 PM
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I agree, Sparky. NAV is usually fairly accurate for voice rec. However, HFL voice recog. sucks!
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Old 11-16-2003, 06:52 PM
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One Last Glimmer of Hope

I stopped by another dealer today to give one last try at linking my 270C to a TL. One of the salesmen there told me he'd gotten a phone "just like mine" to link up for another customer just the other day. He told me that when he selected "Await Link" he got a 60-second countdown, and that after a few seconds the phone discovered the HFL in the car and everything successfully linked up. I know for a fact that there is a newer version of the firmware for the 270C than what I have - could it be that the latest version of the firmware supports the Bluetooth hands-free profile?

:wow:

P.S. When I click "Await Link" on mine, instead of a 60-second countdown, mine just aborts back to the menu after a second or so. Looks like a firmware bug to me, so I'll definitely try to get it upgraded - I've got nothing to lose at thios point.
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Old 11-16-2003, 10:52 PM
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fuque - that is interesting. It would be nice to see the 270c work even though it is a brick of a phone. I really wish Verizon would just get their act together and release bluetooth capable modern phones.
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