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'07 TLS street use, no racing. Data seems to suggest either Hawk HPS street pads or Brembo composit. The brembo seems to be the OEM replacement pads from Acrua.
Any experience with either one or is there something better out there?
The general consensus is the Brembo pads are pretty dusty but stop real well. Having read numerous posts on the subject here and on other sites, Akebono seems to be the most popular aftermarket pad.
I believe I read somewhere here on this forum the dealer OEM/Acura Brembo pads are the good Ferodo Italian organic (and high dust) pads, the aftermarket Brembo pads are the cheapie Chinese made ceramic ones.
There are roughly three camps here regarding pads for the Brembos:
1.) Use OEM
- Dust like a mofo
- Stop like a mofo
- Pricey as a mofo
- some challenges with squeaking
2.) Use Duralast CMAX
- No dust
- price is great
- last a long time
- don't have nearly the initial bite as the OEM pads
- available at your local Autozone
3.) Use some other performance oriented pad
- well...this I don't know as much about
- some dust, some don't
- prices are probably still less than OEM
- performance will be in between the CMAX and OEM
I think it all comes down to your primary use case, budget, and how much effort do you want to put into research and obtaining the pads. For a basic daily pad that will never see track use, is affordable, doesn't dust, and comes with lifetime warranty...it will be hard to ever beat the CMAX pads. I just replaced my first set this winter and got the replacements for free once I brought back the original pads.
I am not sure if the CMAX became the Duralast Gold or the Duralast MAX truthfully. Based on description, I am guessing Gold since I was under the impression they were ceramic and not metallic. I really don't know. I just know I walked into Autozone, gave them my phone number, they matched up my previous purchase and placed an order for replacement pads which arrived 2 days later to my house. They did not have any in stock at that store which is why it was shipped. I paid for that order which was then refunded when I brought back the old pads.
i won't buy anything other than akebono. they stop amazing and have almost no dust at all. i have convinced about 10 people to make the switch and 9 out of 10 became akebono customers for life
Another vote for Duralast. I used Duralast pads with Brembo blank rotors on my 3G. Definitely better than the Akebono pads and Centric rotors on my 4G.
I'm having a little trouble wrapping my mind around why dust is such an important factor when choosing brake pads.
Y'all attending the concourse d'elegance with white glove tests every day or something?
Not being snarky at all, so forgive my forwardness here. But...why TF does it matter if they dust? Is this some sort of psychological block?
Originally Posted by oscarcat
'07 TLS street use, no racing. Data seems to suggest either Hawk HPS street pads or Brembo composit. The brembo seems to be the OEM replacement pads from Acrua.
Any experience with either one or is there something better out there?
What defines better? I think people are just going to toss out answers based on what they currently use, without saying "its better than (x) because of (reason)"
It doesn't seem as if 1 particular pad is favoured for some sort of reason. Just seems like maybe a few people shop at the same chain.
Are you getting any useful info based on your original question?
I'm having a little trouble wrapping my mind around why dust is such an important factor when choosing brake pads.
Y'all attending the concourse d'elegance with white glove tests every day or something?
Not being snarky at all, so forgive my forwardness here. But...why TF does it matter if they dust? Is this some sort of psychological block?
Dust is a huge factor with some brake pads; the OEM pads on my BMWs wre so dusty my beautiful alloy wheels would literally turn nearly black after only a week or so of driving.
The dusting is an issue just because I can wash my car, drive it one day, and the front rims will be covered brake dust that looks like arse. Now...if I washed my car every day or two it would not be an issue. But I wash my car every couple of weeks and having black front rims and silver rear rims looks funny.
As for why the love of the Duralast pads? I really don't know. They have been talked about for many years on the forums, seem to be decently reviewed, priced very nicely, and come with a stupidly generous warranty....so why not? All of these other options...well...I don't know what specific model anyone is talking about nor can I go to my local parts store to attempt to pick up. I am generally not an Autozone customer...I am generally an O'Reilly customer due to location being waaaaay closer to my house. If I had found as many good reviews of the Wagner pads or what ever their house brand is now, I would have just gone there for my pads like I have for previous cars.
I have counter points explaining my viewpoints. Please don't take them as anything except a way to create discussion.
Y'all definitely welcome to your opinions...but hear me out.
My standing points are that only like 0.00001% of the world has places where a car stays clean for more than a few days. When you wash the car...you probably also wash the wheels. Or don't wash em. F&$k em. Either way.
I buy brakes because I want them to stop the car. Brake pads do like 2 things. They stop cars. And they create dust. If one of those things is missing...so is the other.
Originally Posted by horseshoez
Dust is a huge factor with some brake pads; the OEM pads on my BMWs wre so dusty my beautiful alloy wheels would literally turn nearly black after only a week or so of driving.
Well...have you ever had a set of low dust pads that stopped the car as well, though? Honestly?
Originally Posted by Jackass
The dusting is an issue just because I can wash my car, drive it one day, and the front rims will be covered brake dust that looks like arse. Now...if I washed my car every day or two it would not be an issue. But I wash my car every couple of weeks and having black front rims and silver rear rims looks funny.
As for why the love of the Duralast pads? I really don't know. They have been talked about for many years on the forums, seem to be decently reviewed, priced very nicely, and come with a stupidly generous warranty....so why not? All of these other options...well...I don't know what specific model anyone is talking about nor can I go to my local parts store to attempt to pick up. I am generally not an Autozone customer...I am generally an O'Reilly customer due to location being waaaaay closer to my house. If I had found as many good reviews of the Wagner pads or what ever their house brand is now, I would have just gone there for my pads like I have for previous cars.
Well...why not buy dusty front and rear pads? Wheels will match...and you'll have a different coloured set every day lol.
Sure...the duralast ceramics come with a lifetime warranty. I kinda see it as duralasts come with a life sentence of mediocre stopping. With no possibility of parole.
You live in a magical place where cars stay clean for weeks....why are you worried about your wheels being dusty? Idk...different strokes, I suppose.
Originally Posted by sockr1
dust = covering wheels i paid money to see
if i can get the same or similar stopping power, i'd go the low dusting one every time.
i absolutely love my akebono pads and won't ever buy different.
ehhhh same or similar is the key word(s), though. Akebonos are good *for a ceramic*. Hell, I even kinda liked my friend's ProACT's. But...no doubt...even a peasant grade semi-metallic has remarkably better feel than the royalty grade Akebono.
I feel like ceramics advertise something like "ULTRA LOW dust, super high life, have some vague and probable likeliness to stop your car...at some point after you hit the pedal. Maybe". Idk...doesn't do anything for me.
I want the car to stop good AF. Within some reasonable parameters of corrosion and noise...that's all I care about in terms of brake pads.
I guess I consider any info helpful, but I get your point.
What I am sensing is that carbon, metallic or semi-metallic might wear faster and dust more but a little better stopping capability.
DuraLast does make a semi-metallic for the Brembos, but I have not heard any feedback on that one. I am willing to put up with a little dust if it gives me better stopping.
Well...have you ever had a set of low dust pads that stopped the car as well, though? Honestly?
Yes, in fact I have; the main difference is the (high dust) OEM organic pads were typically kind enough to the rotors to allow for a 2:1 (rotor:pad) replacement ratio where the low dust high performance pads would typically eat they rotor down far enough after one set of pads they couldn't be reused. Given I always replace my rotors with new after every brake job, I could care less about rotor life.
Yes, in fact I have; the main difference is the (high dust) OEM organic pads were typically kind enough to the rotors to allow for a 2:1 (rotor:pad) replacement ratio where the low dust high performance pads would typically eat they rotor down far enough after one set of pads they couldn't be reused. Given I always replace my rotors with new after every brake job, I could care less about rotor life.
You went from Organic to Semi Metallic then?
I thought BMW OEM pads were semi metallic? no?
Originally Posted by oscarcat
I guess I consider any info helpful, but I get your point.
What I am sensing is that carbon, metallic or semi-metallic might wear faster and dust more but a little better stopping capability.
DuraLast does make a semi-metallic for the Brembos, but I have not heard any feedback on that one. I am willing to put up with a little dust if it gives me better stopping.
I remember one of the chains had a semi metallic pad that looked like it was a re-branded Bendix pad.
I'm using Bendix MKDIQ semi metallics and I'm very happy. They do dust moderately. Nothing insane...but its definitely noteable.
100 (mostly highway) miles.
aaaannd 50 around town miles following those 100 hwy miles lol.
My view on stopping power differences between pads.
- most any pad can create as much friction as the next to be able to overwhelm the available traction from a given tire
- for a non-tracked/flogged vehicle, very unlikely to get noticeable stopping distance differences between them
- between CMAX and OEM, there is for sure a big difference in initial bite, but overall they both will stop the car in roughly the same distance when needed
- this entire conversation is just like talking about best oil, best air filter, best tires, best brand of wax, best treatment for the dashboards...1732 different opinions
- everyone has to take into account what features are important to them, read the 1732 opinions, then make your own opinion and make your purchase...then share said opinion to make it 1733
My view on stopping power differences between pads.
- most any pad can create as much friction as the next to be able to overwhelm the available traction from a given tire
- for a non-tracked/flogged vehicle, very unlikely to get noticeable stopping distance differences between them
- between CMAX and OEM, there is for sure a big difference in initial bite, but overall they both will stop the car in roughly the same distance when needed
- this entire conversation is just like talking about best oil, best air filter, best tires, best brand of wax, best treatment for the dashboards...1732 different opinions
- everyone has to take into account what features are important to them, read the 1732 opinions, then make your own opinion and make your purchase...then share said opinion to make it 1733
Initial bite is an extremely important aspect.
You can put oiled tiles between the caliper and rotor...and with enough pressure, you can overwhelm the traction of the tyre. They'll perform in an on/off type of fashion (no modulation).
So...no, stopping distance will not be the same between a pad with good initial bite and modulation and a general use ceramic.
The object is to create friction quickly and with more control (modulation).
My quandary is that it seems that...to quite a few people...what happens when you push the pedal is less important than having low dust?
Or are people really under the impression that a parts store ceramic will actually stop the car as well as a semi metallic??
If I mash the pedal, my car comes to a stop. Initial bite is pointless to me for day to day driving. Where it becomes more important is when you are attempting to better modulate braking forces when closer to the limits of currently available traction. Also to note...what's the issue with parts store ceramic vs Internet store ceramic? Don't ya think parts stores carry semi-metallic as well.
If I were concerning myself with every single bit of possible grip/performance, I wouldn't be running GT tires either. Everything is a trade-off and/or compromise in life....everything.
If I mash the pedal, my car comes to a stop. Initial bite is pointless to me for day to day driving. Where it becomes more important is when you are attempting to better modulate braking forces when closer to the limits of currently available traction. Also to note...what's the issue with parts store ceramic vs Internet store ceramic? Don't ya think parts stores carry semi-metallic as well.
If I were concerning myself with every single bit of possible grip/performance, I wouldn't be running GT tires either. Everything is a trade-off and/or compromise in life....everything.
Well...I was only discussing threshold braking and extreme situations because I was responding to your comment about mashing the pedal and braking distances.
If what you want is for the pad to perform like OEM...then...buy OEM.
If you want to improve one way or the other, then look elsewhere...but a good recommendation is possible if there is a definition of better.
I was just saying that low dust comes at the price of brake feel and brake performance, as well as some other things.
Initial bite from the brake pads feels really good during daily driving. That adds to the driving experience in the same way as good steering feel or a good suspension feel does.
Initial bite and modulation also help the car stop better in panic situations or in bad weather where tyre traction is low.
If low dust is more important to you...then that's fine. I said already, different strokes....
The thing is, low dust and initial bite and/or braking efficiency are NOT mutually exclusive.
What commonly available pad has low dust AND the other two things?
There's true engineered ceramic pads that need to mate with special rotors. But we're talking about "better" pads for a TL here. And nobody's suggested using a more advanced ceramic pad. I see Akebono and Duralast, mostly.
I used Axxis ULT Ceramic High Performance in my BMWs; they dusted far less than the OEM pads, had better stopping power, and a better initial bite. I do not know if they are available for the TLs, with or without the Brembo brakes.
With the extreme amount of mile's I've got on this car, I'm going though tires and pads about every 18 months. For the last 400k, I've stuck with Autozone Duramax CMAX or whatever their top of the line pad is called- swap them out and get a free pair due to warranty. Cheap and work extremely well. I use Centric rotors due to cheap and very well built and the park shoes are Wagner Z782- hickup on those however, unless you buy parking brake shoes from Acura for a butt load of money, you'll have to modify the ones you get from everywhere else- not hard, just a pain.
i won't buy anything other than akebono. they stop amazing and have almost no dust at all. i have convinced about 10 people to make the switch and 9 out of 10 became akebono customers for life
I went with the Akebono pads for the front brakes on my '06 Base based on your recommendation. They stop really well and have almost no dust! So count me as one of your converts.
I used Axxis ULT Ceramic High Performance in my BMWs; they dusted far less than the OEM pads, had better stopping power, and a better initial bite. I do not know if they are available for the TLs, with or without the Brembo brakes.
I've not tried them, so I can't comment. Glad you liked them.
I went with the Akebono pads for the front brakes on my '06 Base based on your recommendation. They stop really well and have almost no dust! So count me as one of your converts.
Do you mind dropping the part number for the akebono pads?
02-05-2018, 03:14 PM
Everything is a trade-off and/or compromise in life....everything.
