swedrows

i am going to be changing out my transmission fluid in my '04 TL today and have a question. i know the popular method is the 3+3, but when you pull the drain plug, do you have to monitor how much drains out of the transmission, or does only about 3 quarts drain out?

by doing the 3+3 method, aren't we simply mixing old fluid with new, and essentially leaving a mix of old and new fluid in the tranny since the new fluid does not magically keep itself separated from the old fluid by doing the 3+3 method??

thanks in advance!

ggesq

iTrader: (1)

http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B080100.PDF

From the 3G Garage:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/rr-journals-atf-drain-refill-3g-garage-c-012-a-556044/

LaCostaRacer

I just changed my ATF last weekend for the first time at 22.5K. I have a different take on the 3x3 idea and will just change the ATF sooner and skip doing the 3x3.

If you look at the magnetic drain bolt you'll that there is lots of metallic material on this bolt- at least the first time anyway. By changing around 20K, I'm essentially doing a 3x3 at 60K anyway and not wasting as much fluids. I have issues dumping ATF that is only 15 minutes old doing the 3x3.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

the best way to get all the old fluid out is 3x3....i did my tranny flush and this is what i did....

1>drive the car onto the ramp
2>take the drain bolt out and let the fluid run
3>loosen the fill bolt
4>clean drain bolt with some new fluid
5>when the fluid stops running replace bolt
6>open the bolt in the hood to fill new atf
7>clean the bolt with some new fluid
8>put in the 3 quarts
9>drive car off the ramp and take it for a little spin
10>drive in all gears for about 2-3 mins
11>repeat steps 1-10....2 more times

so by the time you are done you will use up 9 quarts.....i then did a drain and refill (only once, using 3 quarts) in the next 5000 miles.....

hata_61

i'm not a big fan of the 3x3 either. i just change my fluid at every oil change. then i dont have to waste fluid thats only 5 min old.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I save a lot of time and money as I'm waiting 'til 100K to do the change.

ducati748R

I would get a pan/bucket that already has measurement markings. You could also mark them yourself to mitigate any chances of overfilling or underfilling the tranny. Either way, make sure you put back what you take out and double check the fluid level with the dipstick. I'm not a fan of the 3x3 method either, instead I change the fluid more often. The key is to start when the vehicle is new...

Lazer187

iTrader: (1)

do what i did and take it into a oil change place and have them suck out all the old atf fluid, so its all done at once costed me 40 cash but retail was like 80

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ its not recommended to Suck out the old fluid and put new fluid in because you just sucked out the old fluid but not the metal shavings inside the tranny.....

drain and refill at every oil chance or 3x3 every 30K miles....

mglax13

iTrader: (3)

I have an '08 with a bit over 4000 miles and 20% oil life left on my break in oil, so that first oil change is just around the corner. Do you recomend that I change the ATF already at what will be around 4500 miles? This would just be a drain and refill, right?

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

yes...it would just be a drain and refill....

3x3 is for people who do the tranny fluid change after 30K - 50K miles.....just a drain and refill every oil change and you and your tranny should be in great shape even after years.....

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

i did mine a month ago. i first did 3x3 since it was the first one but now i plan on doing a drain and refill every 10-15K miles. i use Acura ATF Z-1.

ross7778

Just did a drain and refill today. I have 40,000 on my 2005 and after doing the change, the trans shifts a lot smoother now. Has anyone else noticed this after changing your ATF fluid?

smithlua

So do the Acura dealerships (or can Honda) do the 3x3 as well?

Majofo

are you serious?.. I started researching oil analysis on Z1 after even 12k miles. The aluminum & iron content starts to climb, the color starts turning dark and the flash point drops up to 30 points in those few miles. I talked to a local Master Tech and they won't touch a transmission with 100k miles that has never been changed. While many Honda products have rigored the test of time & wear.. I wouldn't risk it with these transmissions. Look at the 2G design.. they even redesigned the 3G A/T in 07 and have scrapped the M/T because of the issues it has.. Mine went out around 80k miles.. the previous owner probably never changed it, but also probably ran the crap out of it as well.. just beware that the cheap & easy way may end up biting you in the ass.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Never had a trans failure in the millions of miles I've driven and the TL has the 7yr 100k warranty. The trans fluid is 100k unless driven under severe conditions, and then you're looking at 60K. Once again, the color is not an indication of the quality as the red dye will dissipate after use and the color change is perfectly normal.

To me it’s similar to the 3-5,000 mile oil changes that people abide by, and not the MID. Hey, if people want to change the ATF every oil change, or 20K, or whatever, that's their prerogative. I'm just abiding by the recommended schedule from Acura.

I’ll let you know if the trans dies.

01tl4tl

did they raise the trans warranty on gen3 to 7-100?
or is that a CPO car warranty turbo?

Gen2 had a court case raise their trans warranty to 7yrs+9months/109k miles

01tl4tl

turbo- how many miles on the TL? not millions?!?

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

CPO-63k Purchased @ 32K.

NE14RoxCJ

My Maintenance Minder has told me to change mine twice since I got the car @ 74k miles. Where do you see a change interval of 100k?? I wouldn't let ANY trans go that long without changing the fluid unless it already had. Then I wouldn't change it at all. Just wait for the trans to fail and hope I had saved enough cash from skipped maintenance to foot the bill.

Majofo

once the trans gets used to running on crap.. it won't run on anything else.

LaCostaRacer

I compromise and change my ATF every 20k. By the time I get to 60K I will have done a 3x3 effectively but not wasted lots of 5 minute old fluid. I also get the benefit of seeing how much shavings are on the drain plug sooner than the normal 30-60k interval for a little piece of mind. I would hope the shaving amount degrades over time, but I guess I'll see when I hit 40K. There was a lot at 20k.

As I understand, the 3x3 method is only necessary when some incompatible ATF was used in a emergency situation. I haven't seen any reference in the Service Manual about having to do it on a regular basis. I think the recent information regarding replacing the AT sensors is a better long-term idea than a 3x3 for most people.

I can certainly understand why a dealer wants a customer to pop for the 3x3 because they can make some extra profit on the service.

TLAdvanced

iTrader: (4)

I just ordered 9 quarts of Amsoil synthetic ATF. I currently have 20K on my 07 TL-S and plan on doing the 3x3 this week before my 1K mile journey up to PA.

handy911

I called Honcura in Glendale, CA to find out about the 3X3 transmission fluid change today. But, he doesn't seem to think that it's necessary.

I am pretty sure that he's an expert, or may be I just didn't mention it very clearly. He said he would replace the fluid with 3 quarts for $30.

Anybody brought their car to Honcura for this service?

01tl4tl

must have been the service writer who is NOT a tech
the fluid alone cost 8 bucks a qt- so 6 bucks labor is a steal!!

honda/acura says the 3 qt drain and refill is ok
they only say to do a full change if you added other brand of fluid- dex3

Acura dealers have a new method with running the car on the lift and simulating the in between drives- to change out all the fluid

their tech department came up with the new method for the newer cars with a differant trans but it would work for gens 2 and 3 ok

idkjai

Hmmm is there a difference in changing MTF compared to ATF.
Also, are there gaskets or oil pans that I have to purchase.
This will be the first time I change the transmission fluid.

Jiggy2dmax

iTrader: (1)

Although that would be preventative maintenance, I think it would border on being compulsive. IMHO, changing your transmission fluid at every oil change is just a waist of money and time. The 3x3 at every 20-30k is more than good enough for preventative maintenance IMHO.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

engine takes 2.3 quarts.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

i put in 2 quarts and the third bottle up to the 600 line on the side.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ i use some new ATF fluid to clean the bolts out....also while draining the old fluid, towards the end i tend to put some new fluid in and watch it come out.....

then i tighten the bolts and I have around 2.5-2.6 quarts left which i pour right into the tranny

LessisBestmakingendsmeet

Amsoil ftw!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

am sticking to genuine acura ATF !!! cars got 110K miles and dont really wanna switch or experiment now LOL !!!!

I hate cars

This stuff is badly oxidized in as little as 15K. It's a very, very bad fluid, just about any off the shelf fluid would work better. I would feel pretty safe going 100K provided it was a top quality synthetic and you had decent filtration. That was the original plan with the Amsoil, cooler, and filter. We'll see if I can stick it out or not.

I hate cars

Yes, but what's the difference in a 1x3 every oil change (7,000 miles) or a 3x3 every 20K?

In the end, it's the same except you freshen up the fluid continuously with the change every oil change. Honestly, the best solution is to use a good synthetic that won't cost you more than the Z1 anyway and change it at a conservative 50K.

bigpayback

Im thinking about doing the 3x3 using Amsoil. Can I mix Sync with the regular Z1 fluid that i have in there now. I brought TL CPO in 2006. It's a 2004 with 66k miles.

Elegant TYPE S

iTrader: (2)

I hate cars.. what fluid and regimen are you using?

I hate cars

It's funny you ask. I just had to do another drain and refill of the Amsoil ATD even though I was going to push it to 100,000 miles or somewhere close. My shift quality was going down and the fluid was black but with no metal or clutch material in it. I couldn't figure out why a premium synthetic went black in 30,000 miles, especially with a cooler. I swapped it out and the shift quality returned. Then I remembered 20K miles ago when the axles were replaced, they drained and refilled with Z1 even though I had a gallon of the Amsoil in the back seat that I told them to use.

So I guess the answer is that with good filtration (magnefine filter), a cooler, and a premium synthetic fluid I was planning on pushing it to 100K depending on how the magnefine filters looked when cut open.

myron

iTrader: (4)

my tranny fluid was changed 20 000km ago by the acura dealer (using standard honda tranny fluid I am guessing) and my shifting was smooth. but now from time to time I am having problems with my 3rd gear. This happenes maybe once a month where it's a little hard to get it into the 3rd gear. Do you think it's time for me to do 3x3 with GM Syncro fluid? I just wanna take every precaution to protect my transmision. And how often do you think I should change it (km wise not time wise)?

Majofo

I believe the 3x3 method is suggested for A/T's only because of the full / sump capacity ~7.7qts vs. M/T ~2.5qts, where the A/T you can only drain ~3qts at a time so filling once is changing out ~2/5th's, so doing a 3x3 increases the ratio of new fluid vs old.. You should definitely use GM Sync if you're not on it.. as for change interval?? idk.. I have an A/T..

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Just by rule of thumb, I go 30k mi. in between changes. So in km, that would be between 48k-50k. Of course, this would be 1x3, assuming you did the 3x3 with the GMSMFM fluid already.