Top Speed
03-10-2007, 05:11 PM
#1
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Top Speed
Just curious if any of you guys have taken your TLs to the track? How fast did you take it and how does it handle at that speed? What tires? Upgrades? I mostly wondering what speed a stock TL tops off at. Theres a track close by my house but I'm scared to test out the car until I buy some new tires. I tried searching for threads about this but cant find any, if there is already can I get a link? Thanks.
03-10-2007, 05:14 PM
#3
I did that in the states but now that I am in Germany I drive consistantly around 130-150. I have quite a few mods though, performance nad suspension wise. It handles just great, never really been nervous or anything yet.
BTW it is electronically limited to 150mph gauge reading. Which is where 5th gear redlines, or roughly 5150rpm in 6th
03-10-2007, 06:52 PM
#4
Team Anthracite
i took my auto 225 km at 3rd gear...
i think it is limited to 240km/h... reason being.. when reading the manual..
max speed in gear (5AT)
4th gear - 240km/h
5th gear - 240km/h
lol
wow... nice guage.. but still not used to that.. i am used to my 06 guage =)
i think it is limited to 240km/h... reason being.. when reading the manual..
max speed in gear (5AT)
4th gear - 240km/h
5th gear - 240km/h
lol
wow... nice guage.. but still not used to that.. i am used to my 06 guage =)
03-10-2007, 08:42 PM
#6
Originally Posted by TLFourplay
I did that in the states but now that I am in Germany I drive consistantly around 130-150. I have quite a few mods though, performance nad suspension wise. It handles just great, never really been nervous or anything yet.
BTW it is electronically limited to 150mph gauge reading. Which is where 5th gear redlines, or roughly 5150rpm in 6th
03-10-2007, 08:48 PM
#7
Team Anthracite
Originally Posted by Hardtimes
governed at 130 in the auto 152 in the six speed. this is per my local acura rep. i could not find anything to back this up, but he swears by it.
i got 225km/h on my auto.. so like 140mph
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03-11-2007, 01:15 AM
#8
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Hardtimes
governed at 130 in the auto 152 in the six speed. this is per my local acura rep. i could not find anything to back this up, but he swears by it.
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his
.
03-11-2007, 03:00 AM
#9
Originally Posted by Xpditor
As I said in another thread: that is total bullshit.
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his .
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his
.
03-11-2007, 03:56 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Xpditor
As I said in another thread: that is total bullshit.
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his .
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his
.So are you saying there is no governer in the 3rd gen TL? Cause I thought I was pretty cut and dry when I said there IS. I know for a fact at least that the Type-S is DEFINITELY governed at 150mph gauge reading. TRUST ME. I hit it daily on the autobahn. See, threads like this piss me off cause everyone brings to the table speculations when they dont actually know dick, like that acura dealer. If you dont know just say you dont know. 5th gear hits the red line right at the top speed limiter. If I am in 6th gear and hit it the car will very noticeably cut the fuel off so it doesnt go past it. I will make a video to show.
03-11-2007, 08:39 AM
#12
AZ Community Team
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...2004172540.pdf
According to Road & Track (typically a very reliable source for car data and info), 5th and 6th gear in the 2005 TL 6MT are electronically limited to 147MPH.
According to Road & Track (typically a very reliable source for car data and info), 5th and 6th gear in the 2005 TL 6MT are electronically limited to 147MPH.
Originally Posted by Xpditor
As I said in another thread: that is total bullshit.
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his .
The 3rd Gen TL is not governed in either auto or 6 speed. There is a rev limiter that won't let you go over red-line in any particular gear. Red-line in top gear is near 200 MPH so I don't think you have to worry about that kicking in. It won't go that fast.
Many, many people have reported top speeds in excess of 150 MPH in the 5AT. A few say they ran out of room in the high 140s.
And, I will repeat: there is no mention of a speed governor that I can find in either the Owner's Manual or the Acura shop manual.
So, you Acura rep is either talking about another generation of TL or else he's talking out of his
.
03-11-2007, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TLFourplay
So are you saying there is no governer in the 3rd gen TL? Cause I thought I was pretty cut and dry when I said there IS. I know for a fact at least that the Type-S is DEFINITELY governed at 150mph gauge reading. TRUST ME. I hit it daily on the autobahn. See, threads like this piss me off cause everyone brings to the table speculations when they dont actually know dick, like that acura dealer. If you dont know just say you dont know. 5th gear hits the red line right at the top speed limiter. If I am in 6th gear and hit it the car will very noticeably cut the fuel off so it doesnt go past it. I will make a video to show.
03-11-2007, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TLFourplay
So are you saying there is no governer in the 3rd gen TL? Cause I thought I was pretty cut and dry when I said there IS. I know for a fact at least that the Type-S is DEFINITELY governed at 150mph gauge reading. TRUST ME. I hit it daily on the autobahn. See, threads like this piss me off cause everyone brings to the table speculations when they dont actually know dick, like that acura dealer. If you dont know just say you dont know. 5th gear hits the red line right at the top speed limiter. If I am in 6th gear and hit it the car will very noticeably cut the fuel off so it doesnt go past it. I will make a video to show.
03-11-2007, 10:35 AM
#15
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by TLFourplay
So are you saying there is no governer in the 3rd gen TL? Cause I thought I was pretty cut and dry when I said there IS. I know for a fact at least that the Type-S is DEFINITELY governed at 150mph gauge reading. TRUST ME. I hit it daily on the autobahn. See, threads like this piss me off cause everyone brings to the table speculations when they dont actually know dick, like that acura dealer. If you dont know just say you dont know. 5th gear hits the red line right at the top speed limiter. If I am in 6th gear and hit it the car will very noticeably cut the fuel off so it doesnt go past it. I will make a video to show.
It is true (according to the Owner's Manual) that red-line in 4th (and, I presume, 5th in a 6MT) is about 147-149. The Owner's Manual warns not to shift the auto from 5th to 4th at speeds over 149 MPH. Why would they say that if it were not a possibility?
I think, with the auto, some people may be topping out at 149 or so in 4th, the rev limiter kicks in, and the car does not shift into 5th either because it is in manual mode or the transmission kick-down switch is being pressed because the throttle is floored.
Top gear is very "long". The mathematical red line in top gear of either auto or manual (I calculated it once) is around 200 MPH. We all know that won't happen. Top gear is for better gas mileage; not for performance.
If owners of 6MTs are reporting that they are getting a cut-off of fuel around 149, that is valuable input.
What I am saying is that, in other top speed threads (SEARCH is your friend), many members report the low 150s for a top speed saying that it just didn't have any more in it..... not that it cut out. They also noted that it took a long time to get up there..... that is, a long, empty, straight, rural road.
I would also note that an individual car's top speed is subject to variances in manufacturing and is also subject to: temperature, elevation, air density, state of tune, state of air filter, tire pressure, tire condition, road condition, road grade, wind direction and strength.
For example, a car that can do 150 at sea level, with a normally aspirated engine, will not do 150 at 5,000 feet.
Also, a car that is drag limited to 150 could go 160 with a 10 MPH tail wind.
As to the magazines? I consider them helpful but definitely not infallible. They have made mistakes before and will again. Remember recently that Acura's own press release on the 2007 had several major errors in it including the horsepower rating of the TL-S.
Bottom line: I'm passing along what other owner's have reported and also telling you that I have thoroughly read the Owner's Manual AND I have scanned the LARGE Acura shop manual and I could not find a mention of a speed governor anywhere. If one exists, I can't find it. Only a rev limiter WHICH would perform the same function but it is REV limiting- not speed limiting. That said, the rev limiter would not allow you to exceed about 149 in 4th (AT) or 5th (MT). Then, you have to shift.
Ron A. also has a Shop Manual and is pretty familiar with it. Perhaps he will join us and share his observations and/or research.
I am making note of the experiences a few of you have had with a feeling that the engine is cutting out.
TLFourplay, your experience is valuable as you get the opportunity to test it on the Autobahn (in the real world). Does your fuel cut out in 6th when you try to go over 150 or has it run out of power to go faster?I understand that, if you shift to 5th at 149, the fuel will cut off because you are at the red line and the rev limiter kicks in. But what happens in 6th?
03-11-2007, 11:30 AM
#16
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150ish
I can agree with the autobahn man.... took my 2004 TL Auto up to 150 mph on Ocean Pkwy here on long island late at night 2 years ago i decided not to keep going tho for fear of deer and cops.... but it definitely still had some balls left. it would make sense for it to be limited at 150ish though- a lot of cars (ie BMW, MB are electronically limited here in the states to 155mph or 130 depending on the model)
and i just traded it in for a new 2007 TL-S auto and i have taken that car up to 150mph on Rt 135 here on long island. again, didnt push it passed 150 because now the cops are ALL over that road.
i can say this: the 2004 TL Auto was bone stock and felt very stable flying at 150. the 2007 S Auto feels even better! it's suspension is stiff and tight and feels like the shit is on rails.
but no more speeding for me... i already got pulled over on my way to work for supposedly doing 90 in 55. (as an aside, i know that i wasnt doing any more than 75 cause i was in cruize control so i dont know where he got that # from)
long story short... i believe our autobahn friend that it's probably limited right around 150mph i believe the Car and Driver mag said that the 147 is as estimate. so 147-150ish sounds accurate.
maybe in a few months when i get enuf balls to speed again... i'll see if i can push it past 150 and i'll let y'all know.
and i just traded it in for a new 2007 TL-S auto and i have taken that car up to 150mph on Rt 135 here on long island. again, didnt push it passed 150 because now the cops are ALL over that road.
i can say this: the 2004 TL Auto was bone stock and felt very stable flying at 150. the 2007 S Auto feels even better! it's suspension is stiff and tight and feels like the shit is on rails.
but no more speeding for me... i already got pulled over on my way to work for supposedly doing 90 in 55. (as an aside, i know that i wasnt doing any more than 75 cause i was in cruize control so i dont know where he got that # from)
long story short... i believe our autobahn friend that it's probably limited right around 150mph i believe the Car and Driver mag said that the 147 is as estimate. so 147-150ish sounds accurate.
maybe in a few months when i get enuf balls to speed again... i'll see if i can push it past 150 and i'll let y'all know.
03-11-2007, 12:20 PM
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If I remember correctly... the picture tlfourplay posted is on a dyno. I have a dyno run set up for next week.
As i stated I was not speaking from experience and maybe i shouldn't have spoken at all, but when i do my dyno run i will gladly post the results as mine is a type s auto (i know i know)
just a thought? would it be possible that an east coast emissions car would be different from a west coast car? I know there are two different emission types for the two coasts but i do not know if there are different performance parameters due to the emission standards?
As i stated I was not speaking from experience and maybe i shouldn't have spoken at all, but when i do my dyno run i will gladly post the results as mine is a type s auto (i know i know)
just a thought? would it be possible that an east coast emissions car would be different from a west coast car? I know there are two different emission types for the two coasts but i do not know if there are different performance parameters due to the emission standards?
03-11-2007, 01:13 PM
#19
AZ Community Team
Reline in 5th gear for a 3G TL 6MT is ~161MPH. I have never seen any manufacturer list their speed governers in their owners manuals (including MB and BMW and they both have them also). I've read my wife's Honda Pilot has a 120MPH speed limiter in the ECU and I don't doubt my TL has one either. It's not something most manufacturers brag about but for a variety of reasons they put thme in most modern vehicles.
Originally Posted by Xpditor
I, personally, have only gone a little more than 125 in my 3G 5AT so I cannot and do not speak from my experience. I am merely summarizing what other members have reported in several similar threads.
It is true (according to the Owner's Manual) that red-line in 4th (and, I presume, 5th in a 6MT) is about 147-149. The Owner's Manual warns not to shift the auto from 5th to 4th at speeds over 149 MPH. Why would they say that if it were not a possibility?
I think, with the auto, some people may be topping out at 149 or so in 4th, the rev limiter kicks in, and the car does not shift into 5th either because it is in manual mode or the transmission kick-down switch is being pressed because the throttle is floored.
Top gear is very "long". The mathematical red line in top gear of either auto or manual (I calculated it once) is around 200 MPH. We all know that won't happen. Top gear is for better gas mileage; not for performance.
If owners of 6MTs are reporting that they are getting a cut-off of fuel around 149, that is valuable input.
What I am saying is that, in other top speed threads (SEARCH is your friend), many members report the low 150s for a top speed saying that it just didn't have any more in it..... not that it cut out. They also noted that it took a long time to get up there..... that is, a long, empty, straight, rural road.
I would also note that an individual car's top speed is subject to variances in manufacturing and is also subject to: temperature, elevation, air density, state of tune, state of air filter, tire pressure, tire condition, road condition, road grade, wind direction and strength.
For example, a car that can do 150 at sea level, with a normally aspirated engine, will not do 150 at 5,000 feet.
Also, a car that is drag limited to 150 could go 160 with a 10 MPH tail wind.
As to the magazines? I consider them helpful but definitely not infallible. They have made mistakes before and will again. Remember recently that Acura's own press release on the 2007 had several major errors in it including the horsepower rating of the TL-S.
Bottom line: I'm passing along what other owner's have reported and also telling you that I have thoroughly read the Owner's Manual AND I have scanned the LARGE Acura shop manual and I could not find a mention of a speed governor anywhere. If one exists, I can't find it. Only a rev limiter WHICH would perform the same function but it is REV limiting- not speed limiting. That said, the rev limiter would not allow you to exceed about 149 in 4th (AT) or 5th (MT). Then, you have to shift.
Ron A. also has a Shop Manual and is pretty familiar with it. Perhaps he will join us and share his observations and/or research.
I am making note of the experiences a few of you have had with a feeling that the engine is cutting out. TLFourplay, your experience is valuable as you get the opportunity to test it on the Autobahn (in the real world). Does your fuel cut out in 6th when you try to go over 150 or has it run out of power to go faster?
I understand that, if you shift to 5th at 149, the fuel will cut off because you are at the red line and the rev limiter kicks in. But what happens in 6th?
It is true (according to the Owner's Manual) that red-line in 4th (and, I presume, 5th in a 6MT) is about 147-149. The Owner's Manual warns not to shift the auto from 5th to 4th at speeds over 149 MPH. Why would they say that if it were not a possibility?
I think, with the auto, some people may be topping out at 149 or so in 4th, the rev limiter kicks in, and the car does not shift into 5th either because it is in manual mode or the transmission kick-down switch is being pressed because the throttle is floored.
Top gear is very "long". The mathematical red line in top gear of either auto or manual (I calculated it once) is around 200 MPH. We all know that won't happen. Top gear is for better gas mileage; not for performance.
If owners of 6MTs are reporting that they are getting a cut-off of fuel around 149, that is valuable input.
What I am saying is that, in other top speed threads (SEARCH is your friend), many members report the low 150s for a top speed saying that it just didn't have any more in it..... not that it cut out. They also noted that it took a long time to get up there..... that is, a long, empty, straight, rural road.
I would also note that an individual car's top speed is subject to variances in manufacturing and is also subject to: temperature, elevation, air density, state of tune, state of air filter, tire pressure, tire condition, road condition, road grade, wind direction and strength.
For example, a car that can do 150 at sea level, with a normally aspirated engine, will not do 150 at 5,000 feet.
Also, a car that is drag limited to 150 could go 160 with a 10 MPH tail wind.
As to the magazines? I consider them helpful but definitely not infallible. They have made mistakes before and will again. Remember recently that Acura's own press release on the 2007 had several major errors in it including the horsepower rating of the TL-S.
Bottom line: I'm passing along what other owner's have reported and also telling you that I have thoroughly read the Owner's Manual AND I have scanned the LARGE Acura shop manual and I could not find a mention of a speed governor anywhere. If one exists, I can't find it. Only a rev limiter WHICH would perform the same function but it is REV limiting- not speed limiting. That said, the rev limiter would not allow you to exceed about 149 in 4th (AT) or 5th (MT). Then, you have to shift.
Ron A. also has a Shop Manual and is pretty familiar with it. Perhaps he will join us and share his observations and/or research.
I am making note of the experiences a few of you have had with a feeling that the engine is cutting out.
TLFourplay, your experience is valuable as you get the opportunity to test it on the Autobahn (in the real world). Does your fuel cut out in 6th when you try to go over 150 or has it run out of power to go faster?I understand that, if you shift to 5th at 149, the fuel will cut off because you are at the red line and the rev limiter kicks in. But what happens in 6th?
03-11-2007, 02:20 PM
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......... and race track is a bad place to test the car's "top speed". Most race tracks have curves and hair-pins so how the hell are ya gonna go for a top speed. it is 10,000,000,000 % completely impossible. Even the large oval track sucks. The best place to test out for top speed is autobahn in Germany or Nardo in Italy. They took a Jaguar XJ-220 to the track in Nardo and went for 220 mph, HA HA....
03-11-2007, 02:27 PM
#22
Team Anthracite
Originally Posted by meowCat
......... and race track is a bad place to test the car's "top speed". Most race tracks have curves and hair-pins so how the hell are ya gonna go for a top speed. it is 10,000,000,000 % completely impossible. Even the large oval track sucks. The best place to test out for top speed is autobahn in Germany or Nardo in Italy. They took a Jaguar XJ-220 to the track in Nardo and went for 220 mph, HA HA....
407 at like 2am... no cars!
=)
03-11-2007, 02:40 PM
#23
Senior Moderator
Re: Speed governors.
The reason some cars have them has to do with legal liability and tire ratings.
Recently, I rented a 2007 Cadillac DTS. It was governed to 111MPH. The fuel shut off when you hit 111 and a message came on the the MID telling you it did. They DO talk about it and announce it.
Different models of German cars are speed governed because of some German safety laws which, I believe, also have to do with tire ratings.
You can understand why a manufacturer could have a problem if they made a car that could go 165 but only put tires on it rated for 110 MPH.
The tires on our TLs are "W" rated for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. They are expensive, high-speed performance tires (even though many people don't like the stock tires). In fact, many marques like Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW use the very same tires on some of their hot cars.
So, there is no reason (based on tire ratings) for Acura to govern the speed of the TL as long as it runs out of "steam" at about 150-152. There's still plenty left in the tires.
My informed belief (but I remain open to contrary evidence) is that the 3G TL is drag limited to 152 MPH on a straight, level road at sea level and that there is NO top speed governor other than nature and the laws of physics.
The reason some cars have them has to do with legal liability and tire ratings.
Recently, I rented a 2007 Cadillac DTS. It was governed to 111MPH. The fuel shut off when you hit 111 and a message came on the the MID telling you it did. They DO talk about it and announce it.
Different models of German cars are speed governed because of some German safety laws which, I believe, also have to do with tire ratings.
You can understand why a manufacturer could have a problem if they made a car that could go 165 but only put tires on it rated for 110 MPH.
The tires on our TLs are "W" rated for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. They are expensive, high-speed performance tires (even though many people don't like the stock tires). In fact, many marques like Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW use the very same tires on some of their hot cars.
So, there is no reason (based on tire ratings) for Acura to govern the speed of the TL as long as it runs out of "steam" at about 150-152. There's still plenty left in the tires.
My informed belief (but I remain open to contrary evidence) is that the 3G TL is drag limited to 152 MPH on a straight, level road at sea level and that there is NO top speed governor other than nature and the laws of physics.
03-11-2007, 04:03 PM
#24
AZ Community Team
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtest...-tl-page3.html
I supose Car and Driver and Road & Tarck could both be wrong but I doubt it, according to Car and Driver the speed governor is 152MPH in the TL.
You are correct about the tire ratings and legal liability but BMW and MB imposed their speed governers together in a gentlemen's agreement in the 90's to restrict the top speed when the HP numbers were creeping upward every couple years.
On the Bridgestone EL 42's they are OEM on 3 and 5 series BMW's but no Ferrari uses them. Not sure about MB, they seem to have the vast majority of their OEM tire agreements with Continental, Michellin and Dunlop.
I've never seen any formal anouncement from Honda or Acura on any speed governor on any of their vehicles. But now-a-days I suspect almost all their current vehicles with the probable exception of the S2000 and NSX have speed limiters. Our TL with 258HP and it's low Cd and medium frontal area should have no problem getting up to 160 if their was no speed limiter.
I supose Car and Driver and Road & Tarck could both be wrong but I doubt it, according to Car and Driver the speed governor is 152MPH in the TL.
You are correct about the tire ratings and legal liability but BMW and MB imposed their speed governers together in a gentlemen's agreement in the 90's to restrict the top speed when the HP numbers were creeping upward every couple years.
On the Bridgestone EL 42's they are OEM on 3 and 5 series BMW's but no Ferrari uses them. Not sure about MB, they seem to have the vast majority of their OEM tire agreements with Continental, Michellin and Dunlop.
I've never seen any formal anouncement from Honda or Acura on any speed governor on any of their vehicles. But now-a-days I suspect almost all their current vehicles with the probable exception of the S2000 and NSX have speed limiters. Our TL with 258HP and it's low Cd and medium frontal area should have no problem getting up to 160 if their was no speed limiter.
Originally Posted by Xpditor
Re: Speed governors.
The reason some cars have them has to do with legal liability and tire ratings.
Recently, I rented a 2007 Cadillac DTS. It was governed to 111MPH. The fuel shut off when you hit 111 and a message came on the the MID telling you it did. They DO talk about it and announce it.
Different models of German cars are speed governed because of some German safety laws which, I believe, also have to do with tire ratings.
You can understand why a manufacturer could have a problem if they made a car that could go 165 but only put tires on it rated for 110 MPH.
The tires on our TLs are "W" rated for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. They are expensive, high-speed performance tires (even though many people don't like the stock tires). In fact, many marques like Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW use the very same tires on some of their hot cars.
So, there is no reason (based on tire ratings) for Acura to govern the speed of the TL as long as it runs out of "steam" at about 150-152. There's still plenty left in the tires.
My informed belief (but I remain open to contrary evidence) is that the 3G TL is drag limited to 152 MPH on a straight, level road at sea level and that there is NO top speed governor other than nature and the laws of physics.
The reason some cars have them has to do with legal liability and tire ratings.
Recently, I rented a 2007 Cadillac DTS. It was governed to 111MPH. The fuel shut off when you hit 111 and a message came on the the MID telling you it did. They DO talk about it and announce it.
Different models of German cars are speed governed because of some German safety laws which, I believe, also have to do with tire ratings.
You can understand why a manufacturer could have a problem if they made a car that could go 165 but only put tires on it rated for 110 MPH.
The tires on our TLs are "W" rated for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. They are expensive, high-speed performance tires (even though many people don't like the stock tires). In fact, many marques like Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW use the very same tires on some of their hot cars.
So, there is no reason (based on tire ratings) for Acura to govern the speed of the TL as long as it runs out of "steam" at about 150-152. There's still plenty left in the tires.
My informed belief (but I remain open to contrary evidence) is that the 3G TL is drag limited to 152 MPH on a straight, level road at sea level and that there is NO top speed governor other than nature and the laws of physics.
03-11-2007, 04:43 PM
#26
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yea even this video shows that it is governed to 152. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vG3IrBjgGR8 I say it's awefully fast. 
03-11-2007, 11:22 PM
#27
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by meowCat
yea even this video shows that it is governed to 152. http://youtube.com/watch?v=vG3IrBjgGR8 I say it's awefully fast.
All the vid shows is that, as he says, "Topped out" at 152 which is something I think we all agree on.
That doesn't mean it is speed governed. He also says he's in 5th gear which, in the 6MT, we know is rev limited to about 150.
So..... it's an interesting and fun video (thank you) but it doesn't settle anything.
03-11-2007, 11:36 PM
#28
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
On the Bridgestone EL 42's they are OEM on 3 and 5 series BMW's but no Ferrari uses them. Not sure about MB, they seem to have the vast majority of their OEM tire agreements with Continental, Michellin and Dunlop.
The EL42s are OEM standard equipment on: Jaguar S-type, Infiniti G35, Q45, BMW X3, X5, 7 series, 3 series (as you mentioned), Nissan Maxima and Altima, Lexus LS460, SC430, GS430 and several other sport/luxury sedans and coupes. I think the 350Z uses them, IIRC. None of these cars cuts corners when it comes to performance. The EL 42's, for all the complaints, are not cheap tires.
On top of that, Acura is the only one who specially orders them with "W" rating for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. Most of the others are T, H, V, or Z. Acura spends more money for that rating than the other marques are willing to do.
Now, low profile performance, high speed tires have their downside: noise, flat spots (sometimes), quick wear, which people not accustomed to them will complain about. They expect the same cushiony ride as big balloon tires and high mileage with hard rubber compound.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
03-12-2007, 02:33 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Xpditor
TLFourplay, your experience is valuable as you get the opportunity to test it on the Autobahn (in the real world). Does your fuel cut out in 6th when you try to go over 150 or has it run out of power to go faster?
I understand that, if you shift to 5th at 149, the fuel will cut off because you are at the red line and the rev limiter kicks in. But what happens in 6th?
I understand that, if you shift to 5th at 149, the fuel will cut off because you are at the red line and the rev limiter kicks in. But what happens in 6th?
5th gear redlines right at the top speed governer of (gauge reading) 150mph. If I am in 6th gear on the bahn and go from say 130 on up it continually accelerates until a rather violent shutoff at (gauge reading) 150mph. If I stay on the gas in 6th after I hit it I can "bounce" off of the governer for as long as I want at about 3 second intervals. That is what I will make a video of and post.
Originally Posted by Hardtimes
If I remember correctly... the picture tlfourplay posted is on a dyno. I have a dyno run set up for next week.
03-12-2007, 08:37 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by bf17738
I can agree with the autobahn man.... took my 2004 TL Auto up to 150 mph on Ocean Pkwy here on long island late at night 2 years ago i decided not to keep going tho for fear of deer and cops....
03-12-2007, 09:01 AM
#31
AZ Community Team
EL42's only go up to 18" in rim sizes from Bridgestone, all current production Ferrari's have 19" rims (19" on the rear of a 612, 19" on all four wheels on the F430, and none of the widths are anywhere near what a 599 would need). I could be wrong but I doubt any current Ferrari rolls out of the Maranello factory with any all-season tire.
Ferrari tradtionally has run their production cars with the same OEM brand tire as their F1 team uses so currently they are on Bridgestones. Not sure which ones but the last time I looked over a new F430 it had the RE050 on it. Ferrari also typically demands specially made OEM tires for their vehicles so the RE050's for the F430 I saw more than likely are a special version.
The EL42 nomenclature I believe is sort of a catch-all for Bridgestone OEM fitment. They are OEM for everything from Chrysler and Honda minivans, to G35 to Lexus SC430's to BMW SUV's. So I do not know for certain but suspect that these are actually several different type designs but all adhere to the same EL42 marking for some marketing reason at Bridgestone.
Ferrari tradtionally has run their production cars with the same OEM brand tire as their F1 team uses so currently they are on Bridgestones. Not sure which ones but the last time I looked over a new F430 it had the RE050 on it. Ferrari also typically demands specially made OEM tires for their vehicles so the RE050's for the F430 I saw more than likely are a special version.
The EL42 nomenclature I believe is sort of a catch-all for Bridgestone OEM fitment. They are OEM for everything from Chrysler and Honda minivans, to G35 to Lexus SC430's to BMW SUV's. So I do not know for certain but suspect that these are actually several different type designs but all adhere to the same EL42 marking for some marketing reason at Bridgestone.
Originally Posted by Xpditor
I have seen them on Ferraris when I was at the factory in Marinello last year. They are also on some Maserattis and Aston Martins but, more often than not, they use the Potenza models like the RE030 (as used on the 6MT) and RE050, and the S02 and S03 which is used on the NSX and S2000.
The EL42s are OEM standard equipment on: Jaguar S-type, Infiniti G35, Q45, BMW X3, X5, 7 series, 3 series (as you mentioned), Nissan Maxima and Altima, Lexus LS460, SC430, GS430 and several other sport/luxury sedans and coupes. I think the 350Z uses them, IIRC. None of these cars cuts corners when it comes to performance. The EL 42's, for all the complaints, are not cheap tires.
On top of that, Acura is the only one who specially orders them with "W" rating for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. Most of the others are T, H, V, or Z. Acura spends more money for that rating than the other marques are willing to do.
Now, low profile performance, high speed tires have their downside: noise, flat spots (sometimes), quick wear, which people not accustomed to them will complain about. They expect the same cushiony ride as big balloon tires and high mileage with hard rubber compound.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
The EL42s are OEM standard equipment on: Jaguar S-type, Infiniti G35, Q45, BMW X3, X5, 7 series, 3 series (as you mentioned), Nissan Maxima and Altima, Lexus LS460, SC430, GS430 and several other sport/luxury sedans and coupes. I think the 350Z uses them, IIRC. None of these cars cuts corners when it comes to performance. The EL 42's, for all the complaints, are not cheap tires.
On top of that, Acura is the only one who specially orders them with "W" rating for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. Most of the others are T, H, V, or Z. Acura spends more money for that rating than the other marques are willing to do.
Now, low profile performance, high speed tires have their downside: noise, flat spots (sometimes), quick wear, which people not accustomed to them will complain about. They expect the same cushiony ride as big balloon tires and high mileage with hard rubber compound.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.
03-12-2007, 11:03 AM
#32
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by Legend2TL
The EL42 nomenclature I believe is sort of a catch-all for Bridgestone OEM fitment. They are OEM for everything from Chrysler and Honda minivans, to G35 to Lexus SC430's to BMW SUV's. So I do not know for certain but suspect that these are actually several different type designs but all adhere to the same EL42 marking for some marketing reason at Bridgestone.
It probably has to do with basic design and tread patterns.
The Ferraris I noted in Italy were in the parking lot- registered vehicles (or demos) so that doesn't tell us much.
Interestingly (to me) was that the top brass at Ferrari were driving (or being driven in) Masseratti with heavy police motorcycle escorts.
03-12-2007, 11:51 AM
#33
MP90 uninstalled
The 2G and 3G TL are RPM and speed governed! All this speculation is simply ridiculous. It appears some of you just like to type or have nothing better to do. I am still laughing at the redundant speculation after time and time again it has been stated that the car has a speed limited fuel cut off of 149 mph. Those of you who have never hit the limit or don’t own one shouldn’t even be typing. I have hit the wall in both 3G AT and MT. Even in my CLS the car pulls like crazy till 149 and simply falls flat on its face just like it did when I drove the 3G TL's. Without the 149 fuel cut out the cars could easily achieve low 160s. The discrepancy between people who have done it seeing 148, 149, 150, 151, and 152 is simply speedo error or observer error. The first reason for the limit is a price break on policies given to auto makers on specific makes by insurance companies which the consumer sees thus encouraging the purchase of the car. The other reason is the tires limits. Its been that way for years and applies to most cars. If you still want to argue just ask one of the guys with a supercharged TL. There should be more than enough power there for at least 175mph and I assure you they will all tell you it still wont break 149. Jim.
03-12-2007, 12:04 PM
#34
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My car may not count as stock, but after the hondata prototyping, all my gears got stretched, and I hit over 160. The tl does not feel stable above 160, speed governer is there for a reason. The ass end got REALLY light, and just a little bend on the freeway made my ass end squeal. Not to comforting @ 164 mph-
03-13-2007, 02:38 AM
#35
Originally Posted by jproy
The 2G and 3G TL are RPM and speed governed! All this speculation is simply ridiculous. It appears some of you just like to type or have nothing better to do. I am still laughing at the redundant speculation after time and time again it has been stated that the car has a speed limited fuel cut off of 149 mph. Those of you who have never hit the limit or don’t own one shouldn’t even be typing. I have hit the wall in both 3G AT and MT. Even in my CLS the car pulls like crazy till 149 and simply falls flat on its face just like it did when I drove the 3G TL's. Without the 149 fuel cut out the cars could easily achieve low 160s. The discrepancy between people who have done it seeing 148, 149, 150, 151, and 152 is simply speedo error or observer error. The first reason for the limit is a price break on policies given to auto makers on specific makes by insurance companies which the consumer sees thus encouraging the purchase of the car. The other reason is the tires limits. Its been that way for years and applies to most cars. If you still want to argue just ask one of the guys with a supercharged TL. There should be more than enough power there for at least 175mph and I assure you they will all tell you it still wont break 149. Jim.
Thanks man, you read my mind. Thats why every time I say 150mph I put in qoutations (gauge reading). If we really wanted to get specific about it we could put our navigation into diagnostic mode where it shows gps mph. Either way I will make a video on the autobahn this weekend. Lol even after that I am sure there will be all those jokers who have never hit the top speed governer speculating that there is no limiter. Some people
03-13-2007, 10:21 AM
#36
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
I feel compelled to try this. Not to argue the point, because between word of mouth and those magazine articles, it seems fairly assumable that it is governed.
I just want to be amongst the people who have actually tried it so if I ever do have something to say about it, it will be from experience. I also agree that policy is best - speaking from experience!
To TLFOURPLAY: Damn! Your Type-S is a badass looker AND performance modded? Shit! I want my car to be like your's when it grows up...
I just want to be amongst the people who have actually tried it so if I ever do have something to say about it, it will be from experience. I also agree that policy is best - speaking from experience!
To TLFOURPLAY: Damn! Your Type-S is a badass looker AND performance modded? Shit! I want my car to be like your's when it grows up...
03-13-2007, 10:48 AM
#37
2003 NBP TL-S
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
Re: Speed governors.
The reason some cars have them has to do with legal liability and tire ratings.
Recently, I rented a 2007 Cadillac DTS. It was governed to 111MPH. The fuel shut off when you hit 111 and a message came on the the MID telling you it did. They DO talk about it and announce it.
Different models of German cars are speed governed because of some German safety laws which, I believe, also have to do with tire ratings.
You can understand why a manufacturer could have a problem if they made a car that could go 165 but only put tires on it rated for 110 MPH.
The tires on our TLs are "W" rated for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. They are expensive, high-speed performance tires (even though many people don't like the stock tires). In fact, many marques like Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW use the very same tires on some of their hot cars.
So, there is no reason (based on tire ratings) for Acura to govern the speed of the TL as long as it runs out of "steam" at about 150-152. There's still plenty left in the tires.
My informed belief (but I remain open to contrary evidence) is that the 3G TL is drag limited to 152 MPH on a straight, level road at sea level and that there is NO top speed governor other than nature and the laws of physics.
The reason some cars have them has to do with legal liability and tire ratings.
Recently, I rented a 2007 Cadillac DTS. It was governed to 111MPH. The fuel shut off when you hit 111 and a message came on the the MID telling you it did. They DO talk about it and announce it.
Different models of German cars are speed governed because of some German safety laws which, I believe, also have to do with tire ratings.
You can understand why a manufacturer could have a problem if they made a car that could go 165 but only put tires on it rated for 110 MPH.
The tires on our TLs are "W" rated for sustained speeds of 165 MPH. They are expensive, high-speed performance tires (even though many people don't like the stock tires). In fact, many marques like Ferrari, Mercedes and BMW use the very same tires on some of their hot cars.
So, there is no reason (based on tire ratings) for Acura to govern the speed of the TL as long as it runs out of "steam" at about 150-152. There's still plenty left in the tires.
My informed belief (but I remain open to contrary evidence) is that the 3G TL is drag limited to 152 MPH on a straight, level road at sea level and that there is NO top speed governor other than nature and the laws of physics.
03-13-2007, 11:20 AM
#38
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Originally Posted by Xpditor
Back in your litter box, Kitty.
All the vid shows is that, as he says, "Topped out" at 152 which is something I think we all agree on.
That doesn't mean it is speed governed. He also says he's in 5th gear which, in the 6MT, we know is rev limited to about 150.
So..... it's an interesting and fun video (thank you) but it doesn't settle anything.
All the vid shows is that, as he says, "Topped out" at 152 which is something I think we all agree on.
That doesn't mean it is speed governed. He also says he's in 5th gear which, in the 6MT, we know is rev limited to about 150.
So..... it's an interesting and fun video (thank you) but it doesn't settle anything.
It don't matter it's electronically limited, governed, or drag limited. It all boils down to 152 physical mph. Same damn thing, just worded differently.
Also, the 149 mph applies to the "2nd gen" TL's, not the 3rd gen. 2nd gen is not equal to 3rd gen.
03-13-2007, 07:10 PM
#39
~Da Nocturnal Cheetah~
I was checking out posts for more info on this curious debate, and found this:
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/boiler-room-style-151824/
Check out post #17. The response to it is below by 2004 TL:
Originally Posted by crzygosu87
WHOOAA ... WHAT THE? 2004 TL your TL came up with those numbers in your signature with only those mods???? That sounds too good to be true @___@
2004 TL response:
Well you are right, I do have a MT. I responded to this question previously on another thread as to how I acheived these numbers with my mods, and the answer is getting the clutch/tire slip just right while timing the engine revs perfectly. Tire temp and road surface need to be optimal, and in most places this is not the case. I think that the lay driver would get numbers about 2-4 tenths slower in most cases, but I have tested my car many times and have seen almost the exact performance within a few .01 everytime. This is pure technique in handling the clutch and feeling the car. I have raced professionally before so I mastered this years ago on the track.
__________________
2004 TL Mods:
Comptech RSB
AEM Cold AIr Intake
UR Underdrive Pulley
Pro Cats
255/40/17 Nexen N3000 tires
Certified 289 whp, 257 ft/lbs tq
0-60 mph 5.24 sec
0-100 mph 13.38 sec
1/4 mile 13.74 sec @ 104.1 mph
Top Speed (Radar Confirmed) 158.2 mph @ 5,900 rpm
Lateral G - .96 average
If you read this starting from the page I pasted above, he says he is telling the truth and is firm about it. On this thread, however, I read that it cuts you off at 152 mph. Is this guy telling the truth? Is the method he said he used possible? Not arguing anyone's point on this, and I fully intend to find a way to open my car up just for the sake of having done it once. Can someone shed some light on this?
https://acurazine.com/forums/ramblings-12/boiler-room-style-151824/
Check out post #17. The response to it is below by 2004 TL:
Originally Posted by crzygosu87
WHOOAA ... WHAT THE? 2004 TL your TL came up with those numbers in your signature with only those mods???? That sounds too good to be true @___@
2004 TL response:
Well you are right, I do have a MT. I responded to this question previously on another thread as to how I acheived these numbers with my mods, and the answer is getting the clutch/tire slip just right while timing the engine revs perfectly. Tire temp and road surface need to be optimal, and in most places this is not the case. I think that the lay driver would get numbers about 2-4 tenths slower in most cases, but I have tested my car many times and have seen almost the exact performance within a few .01 everytime. This is pure technique in handling the clutch and feeling the car. I have raced professionally before so I mastered this years ago on the track.
__________________
2004 TL Mods:
Comptech RSB
AEM Cold AIr Intake
UR Underdrive Pulley
Pro Cats
255/40/17 Nexen N3000 tires
Certified 289 whp, 257 ft/lbs tq
0-60 mph 5.24 sec
0-100 mph 13.38 sec
1/4 mile 13.74 sec @ 104.1 mph
Top Speed (Radar Confirmed) 158.2 mph @ 5,900 rpm
Lateral G - .96 average
If you read this starting from the page I pasted above, he says he is telling the truth and is firm about it. On this thread, however, I read that it cuts you off at 152 mph. Is this guy telling the truth? Is the method he said he used possible? Not arguing anyone's point on this, and I fully intend to find a way to open my car up just for the sake of having done it once. Can someone shed some light on this?