mlody

I used to have ’04 TL 6MT and I sold it because of the multitude of problems. I still frequently visit the site, as I am hoping to give the TL a second chance. I have been thinking about getting a brand new one this time, but it looks like the TL is one of the rare cars, that almost nothing has been fixed/corrected over the years, which kind of disappoints me.



For me to pay premium to have ~10 miles on the odometer and have better color selection is not worth $5000-7000 more knowing that my car will have the same problems as the used one).



The TL is in the 3rd year and the problems still exists:

- rattles everywhere (windows/center console)

- rear suspension tire wear

- same crappy tires

- crappy paint matching on most colors

- dash fades

- cheap leather (butt prints still exists, but not that visible as on ’04)





The only thing I can think of that were addressed for the new models are – subwoofer noise, memory seat and somehow butt prints, but the fixes exist for the earlier models as well so those owners aren’t left behind.



It seems that TL with 20K Acura certified makes a lot more sense. At this mileage the only thing needing replacement are tires (which a lot of people replace when getting the brand new car anyway). The car will have similar warranty and most of the problems taken care of already.



How many people gone through the same and decided to pick up the used certified TL vs. the brand new one? If I had known that the brand new TL has the above problems addressed, it would be no contest, but still it looks like it is a lottery for most people as they getting the same crap on ’06 as people were getting on ’04 and ’05.

I would be really upset to find out that after paying premium price, my brand new TL has the same problems than the old one had.I am still not too convinced to pay the premium price for the new car knowing that all the problems will exist and start bugging me the day I drive the car of the lot.

How many people moved up from '04 to '05/'06 model to find out that the car isn't any better?

Sorry for the rambling; I love the car, but Acura’s attitude kind of bugs me.

sangwl

i love this site, but its just funny from being on other sites, this site seems to be the RANT/VENT site on all problems dealing with the TL.

i have an 05 TL and i have roughly 15,000 miles, with no problems so far.

i would just say that with the first year model of the 3rd gen TL, you're bound to have problems.

if your planning on getting another one now, your obviously still in love with the car. Just get one.

not one car maker out there makes a perfect car.

sang

soopa

I don't know, I've had my TL for 7 months now and have not had a SINGLE problem. It's the best car I've ever owned.

You can't believe everything you see here, some people, most people, are just never happy. 90% of the users on our site never post anything until they're having a problem or thinking they're having a problem.

In reality though, for every problem... there's 100 people with issue free cars. You just never hear those stories.

Again, I have a 2005 TL and abso-fucking-lutely love it. It's the best Acura ever made, IMO... and I've owned several.

Like I said though, if you're one of those people who looks for issues (I used to be one myself) you won't rest until you find one... and then you'll be miserable.

Look on the bright side of things and you'll realize the TL is top-notch. I'd challenge you to find another car on the market with a higher build standard.

I have friends with 30-45k Audi's, BMW's, Lexus's, and Mercedes... I wouldn't trade with a single one of them. They all have rattles, they all have spent at least 1 day out of their first year of ownership in the shop. No car is issue free... but the TL is damn close.

soopa

It's just something with the crowd THIS car attracts.

We never hosted a forum for another model with sooo much complaining... yet... every other Acura (and I've owned most of them) is pale in comparison to the 3G TL.

Ya'll should feel really lucky for owning such a fine car.

I can't imagine what we'd be hearing from this crowd if you had the misfortune of buying a 2G CL... you have no idea how good you have it.

mlody

yes, I still love the car, but I hate to drop $35000 on it and not even get $25000 worth of quality in the car. this is what really bugs me the most.

soopa

Well, that's blasphemous... IMO.

The TL is a BARGAIN at $35,000. I'm not saying that because I own one or own the site. There are plenty of cars we cater to here at AcuraZine that I don't feel the same way about.

However, I know, that any reasonable person should recognize the great value in build quality, features, design they are getting for a relatively low sum of money considering the price of any comparable competition.

Nevertheless, if you feel this way, I doubt you will ever be happy. My suggestion would be to buy something else. Don't buy a TL. You'll forever second guess yourself.

Buy something else... drive it for a year. Then come back and take a ride in a 2006/07 TL... and maybe then you'll realize why I appreciate this car.

mn2trance

Do you plan to keep this car until the wheels fall off or just trade up whenever something bigger and better comes along? If it's the former, then you wouldn't care about the "problems" that this car may have. Unless it poses a safety concern, then you have every right to demand a better build car.

My car is my daily driver and I'm approaching 15K miles on it in my 8 months of ownership. It has been flawless thus far, aside from the failed HFL, which was replaced under warranty. From my experience, I would definitely say that this car is very much worth getting brand new. If you can get a great price on it, it'll benefit you even more!

neuronbob

mlody, I think the TL deserves a second look, new. I agree that the quality for this car can be hit or miss. It is clear that the later models are less moody than the newer. Even so, I bring up, again, my very early 2004 TL that has had only minor issues. I still have no rattles at 43.7 k miles other than the subwoofer (which I guess I'll get to eventually). My current plan is to keep the car as long as possible, something I haven't done for a few years; this is the first car I've kept past 40k miles in six years.

BTW, I stopped buying used years ago in order to avoid problems that go along with used cars. I don't care about the depreciation that much, the relative lack of issues is worth the extra cost to me. "Low mileage used cars"=multiple issues, as we've seen on this site.

chfields

I am considering purchasing an 07 TL, that is what brought me here. I am, however, very concerned about the fact that alot of people here seem to think it is acceptable for a $35,000 car to have issues such as rattles, cheap tires, dash fade, cheap leather,etc.

We own a 03 Honda CRV ($20,000 new) that, other than cheap tires(wore out after 15,000 miles) hasn't had a single issue, even my 10 year old Saturn SC2 has been trouble free for the last 8 years I owned it, however, it does now have 1 rattle in the dash when the engine is cold, but once it warms up it goes away.

Am I'm being unrealistic to expect a $35,000 car to be free from defects, when both my $12,000 Saturn(used) and $20,000 Honda CRV(new) are defect free??

datmrman

Please check out the Consumer Reports thread on the TL. Not everyone has problems.

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131205

chfields

I saw that and it shows Body integrity: Seals, weather stripping, air and water leaks, wind noise, rattles and squeaks. rated as poor

chfields

In all fairness, that report is only up to the 05 and I'm looking at the 07. I'm hoping they will have these issues addressed by then, or at least I'm one of the lucky ones who gets one of the trouble free ones.

Ken1997TL

I agree with Adam (Soopa) 100% on this. I also have a 2005 TL with NO problems. I did extensive test drives in several TLs just so I could be sure I got one that drove properly and didnt have any rattles.

Ken1997TL

I dont see how. There are much better seals on my '05 TL than on my '97 or '03 TL. Weather stripping is superior. No air or water leaks. Far less wind noise. Rattles and squeaks are non-existant. Body integrity is far superior, less twisting and bending will over time make it the superior car after 10 years. Build tolerances are much stricter as well.

My '97 with nearly 140,000 miles has an occasional wind noise in cross winds (due to frameless windows) Its a GREAT car after that many years. Its held up well and my '05 indicates it will hold together even better.

Two things are at play here in my opinion:

a) A very small percentage of 3rd gen TL owners have cars that are bad and are VERY vocal about it

b) People are VERY fussy and use stethoscopes to hunt for rattles

neuronbob

Fixed. Nothing wrong with c), that's why we're here, to share pride and, when necessary, solutions to problems.

leedogg

All it says is that its rated average for 05, (we're not even talking about the 06 model). This could merely be the rattling issue some people were commenting on. Still, its average not poor. Other cars would dream of only having one 'average' rating, 2 'better than average' ratings, and the rest excellent.

chfields

I am very familiar how forums work as I am on one for computer parts. I have seen people complain about problems they have on their equipment, yet never had that issue with mine. What amazes me most about this particular car/forum, other than 1-2 people, everybody who has issues still thinks the cars are great.......I have no doubt I'll be getting one, I just have to wait til Christmas time...Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

1995hoo

It doesn't mean that TL owners have necessarily had problems with all of those issues. Rather, it's defining "body integrity" to indicate that these are the sorts of complaints that would be weighed in determining the rating for "body integrity."

I have an '04 6MT and have had minimal issues. An occasional rattle, but usually only on rough roads, and they've been pretty much unnoticeable since I replaced the EL42s with Pirellis.

I view this site as being like many others on the Internet—a great place to find tips for your car, but any reviews must be taken cautiously. I find that Internet review sites tend to be weighted towards the negative because it's the people who have a complaint who are more likely to be motivated to speak out, and also because it's easier to criticize something than it is to write a positive review (I think so, anyway). But unlike many other sites, most of the people here who post negative comments tend to post well-reasoned negative comments (e.g., "I don't like the EL42s because they lose grip too quickly in the wet" rather than "The EL42s are crummy and I hate them"). Ultimately I think that with ANY car there are going to be some people with more problems, some with fewer, and that's why reliability ratings are said to be an attempt to reflect the average!


-----------------------

1995hoo

You should read the last issue of Road & Track, which had an article on a user survey they took regarding the Mini Cooper. They said that the owners had reliability issues but almost universally loved the car. Perhaps it isn't as unique to the TL as it may seem!

---------------------

chfields

I believe these are probably the exception, rather than the rule. I think that survey would have been different if the customers paid $35,000 for the Mini Cooper instead of $18,000.
I do understand that quality manufacturers, whether cars, computer components,etc, are going to have issues, but the overall quality is what keeps the consumers loyal. Thats why I buy Honda/Acura cars/suv, Nvidia video cards, MSI motherboards, etc...

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

IMO, the TL is one of a few cars that is actually worth the new price. Compare the TL with other cars of the same MSRP in the market and the TL is actually one of the best value. Performance, toys, build quality.

Sure, Lexus ES330 may have better built quality and less rattle, but performance?
Lexus IS25/350 might have superior handling, but at what price?
Infiniti G35 I say is pretty close as far as straight line performance, but the interior design and material are still 2 steps behind the TL's.
BMW 3 series and Audi A4 are so expensive when you want to make them comparably equipped as the TL.
Mercedes C-class? If you moan and whine about TL's problems, you don't even want to know C's issues. This is a Mercedes that's not worthy of the Mercedes' badge.

Even MSRPs to so-called economy cars are nearing $30k mark. Look at Accord V6 with Nav, Mazdaspeed6, and others.

My $0.02. BTW, I have been owning an 05 TL for over 13 months and I haven't had to visit the dealer for any issue. Sure, I have some rattles and squeaks, but nothing major. Everything works as advertised.

My point, folks. You get what you paid for, so don't set your expectation higher than the $$$ value. You paid for a hell of a fine, good value, good packaged car. There's some cost cutting here and there, sure. If you want the TL to be built with Lexus-like materials, have a comfort level like Lexus ES330, have Mark-Levinson's quality stereo, come with RWD and BMW's razor sharp steering and handling, go straightline quicker than a Lexus IS350, look as sexy as a G35 coupe, it would be stickered at $45k or even more.

Like soopa said, this car is a bargain.

chfields

My point, folks. You get what you paid for, so don't set your expectation higher than the $$$ value.

If I pay $35,000 for a car, I expect the quality to be alot better than a $20,000 car.

BTW 06 G35 sedan w/navi MSRP is $38,000

simont53

Wot he said !!!!

kennyc

paging gainful on the white courtesy phone!

SebringSilver

I don't get it.

If the TL's such an awful car, why are so many people buying them?

Gunsnroses316

i have an 04TL AM with 19500 miles on it , i bought it last year oct with 16K miles on it, no problems with it till date. Firstly i got a steal deal on it, and secondly ITS FREAKIN EXCELLENT , I JUST LOVE IT.

Brettg

We have about 9000 miles on our 2005 TL with the 6MT, and have not had a single problem or rattle with it so far.

The wife and I are very pleased with the car.

Brett

ttliang

mine is an 04 with no major problems or rattles.


think about this people. acura sold almost 90000 TL last year alone i think. that itself is incredible enough. now if we can find 100-200 unlucky people who got rattles or some problems out of that 2005 90,000 cars to post here in a few threads, i swear whoever read them would think that TL is the worst car in the whole damn world. it's just not the case.

just imagine this

i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles
i have rattles

now I am tired of typing, u are tired of reading and the rest of the world thinks TL sucks. count it. that's just only 12 complaints out of who knows how many out there. let the numbers talk to you a bit.

"you can fool all people some times. you can fool some people all the time. you CAN'T fool all people all the time."

mlody

Finally someone here shares my concerns.

First, I am doing Honda a favor for checking the TL one more time, even though my ’04 pissed me the most out off all cars I have own and it was the most expensive car. That TL was lower quality than my ’99 Civic with 115k miles on it and couple other cars I had in the past.



If Honda can spoil one with a good quality product for $15-20k, why in the heck is unrealistic to expect the same or even better from $35k Honda car? How stupid is to say that I would have to shell out $45k for a rattle free car and with $35k car I have to compromise, while my freaking $20k Accord and RSX are bullet proof?


I will keep waiting for '07 - just curious what changes the TL will receive and then I will make a decision.

Brettg

If you go to any lists where the cars really have problems, real problems, not rattles, you understand its dead here, with only a fow odd minor things to complain about.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=39

Read some of the issues and responses there.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2427439

The above thread is interesting.

On my 2003 passat, I had problems on day 2, and they just kept coming, and in 2 years the car was a real mess when I traded it in on the TL.

47,000 bad fuel pumps, the car dies whenever it decides to, on vacation, 400 miles from home, late at night in a bad area, in the rain, etc.

Sensors failing, oil use, oil leaks, alarms, CV joint boots lasting 40,000 miles on average, etc.

The TL is a dream.

Brett

03CoupeV6

I hate VW with a fiery passion, Brett.

acurasofla

You should keep your Honda and forget TL. It's not for you. BTW, my '04 TL is almost 2 years old and remains problem-free and flawless.

your_mom

I bought a certified used '04 a couple of months ago.

I have 3 rattles in the usual places.

The seats get buttprints.

The dash is fading.

None of these impede the forward progress of the car, so I don't care.

frank69m

Man, quit your complaining. I have a 330i with only 27k that rattles and I had to replace the water pump....and it was like $8,000 more....:-) .No car is perfect....Even my Toyota had some rattle issues which i addressed.

frank69m

Actually, price the fully loaded Accord EX v6 with Nav vs. the TL....I think you will be surprised with how close they are in features and price? Then you might say, hey, Accord is still cheaper, why not get it? Well, prestige and a longer base warranty?

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

If you compare the TL with a $20k car (MSRP), don't you think that the TL has much better, uh, almost everything? Compare it to a 2006 Civic EX Auto without navi, that costs almost $20k. I have driven such car, and IMO, the TL feels like it's worth at least twice that of the Civic costs.

If you want, compare it to say a 2006 Camry LE, which has 2.4L 4 banger with auto transmission. It costs a touch over $21k. If you feel that your TL isn't built with better quality and more expensive materials than the Camry is, I don't know what to say.

How much difference is in "a lot better"? If you buy a $35k car and expect the car to have materials twice as good as a $20k car, that's an unfair expectation.

chfields

Well, when a $20,000 car has 30,000 miles and no issues and a $35,000 car with 10,000 miles has rattles, butt prints etc....Thats a problem......

As stated earlier, there is a small percentage of people having these issues and it doesn't seem wide spread, but is still cause for concern.

I know there are kids on here that got their cars given to them by mommy and/or daddy and others who can pay cash without blinking, but I'm a working man and $35,000 is alot of money, so I want to be damn sure that I get the best bang for my buck. I will own this car for a minimum of 10 yrs, if not longer.

As far as the VW goes....I wouldn't drive one if it was given to me......

03CoupeV6

I'm afraid that's probably true - the Camry may be boring, but it is EXTREMELY well built.

mlody

The good things about TL get overshadow by poor quality, design and assembly. Maybe the TL looks better/feels better when not driven, but drive it and even stupid Civic has a better made doors that do not shatter and windows that do not make noise when rolled half way down.

With closed eyes, shut both door (TL’s and Civic’s) and tell me which one makes more luxurious sound? For sure you would pick Civic!!!!



Tell me what is better in your book? A leather sofa for $1500 that is made of decent leather and it is solid, or a premium sofa for $3000 that feels like all legs are going to fall apart and squeaks each time someone sits on it?



I will wait for more ’06 owners to leave some feedback about the TL, and then I will decide what to do, perhaps’06 or ’07 isn’t that bad quality wise.



Having a bullet proof $20k car, I guess it is wrong to expect the same from $35k car?

Let's hope that Acura plans to do some decent updates for '07 to make it worth wait (like they did for TSX) Time will tell.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

chfields:
I hope you're not implying that my parents gave me the car or that I'm so loaded and dropping $35k on a car is nothing. Anyway, I totally agree with you that a $35k car should have no issues. May I ask, what $20k car that you kept on mentioning?

mlody:
I don't think I really have to say that I prefer a $1500 sofa that is built better than an overpriced one. If I prefer the latter, I'd have bought a C320 or something.

I think you had an exceptionally bad built TL and/or tested an exceptionally better-than-average built Civic. Like I mentioned, I helped a friend of mine buying a Civic. She wanted my opinion, so test drove the car, an EX and an LX, both auto. I drove the TL to the dealership, so I indirectly could compare the Civic to the TL as well.
To tell you the truth, I think the Civic is an excellent car, but better built than the TL? Please.... I don't even think the Civics are actually worth the prices.

The doors feel thinner, lighter, and definitely don't feel as solid as the TL's doors. The door map pockets are flimsy that they actually flex if you push or pull them a bit.

The paint on the front fenders are so thin and uneven, you might think the fenders have been repainted. You could even see the base coats under the color, because the paint is so thin. You feel the rough spots on the edges where the fenders meet the hood. The hood is also the same thing.

The black trim around the windows are not plastic coverings like the TL's or 96-00 Civic's, not even paint, like my 95 Accord's, but it's black tapes!! Yeah, you read it right, black trim tape. You can see the seams when the tapes meet at the corners of the window frames.

The interior door panels are mostly hard thin plastics, padded only the top portion of them. The TL's door panels are almost 100% soft padded plastics or leather covered. A few sections are hard plastics, like around the speakers and where they meet the dashboard sides.

I'm not sure what you meant with "doors that do not shatter and windows that make noises when rolled half way down". I don't think I have this problem, but please clarify.

03CoupeV6:
my GF has an 04 Camry LE. I chose this car for her, expecting Toyota's reputation for material and built quality. It's a very solid car, mind you, but it doesn't exactly meet my expectation. The car is not without rattles and they started early. It has about 40k miles right now, and it has rattles on the left B pillar, by the seat belt anchor. The rear seat creaks when the car hits bumps, unless someone sits in the back. I can go all day on this. The car doesn't even have courtesy lights on the doors, something I overlooked.

I'm not sure why some people keep on complaining about minor stuff. My cousin also drives an 04 TL 6MT with nav and we are satisfied with our cars. We still think today that the TL is a good value, good performing car. Maybe we're just lucky that our cars were built on a Wednesday, in summer, right after a pay raise at the plant. Who knows.