Acuramon

I used to own a 1st Gen TSX about 3 years ago then an EX-L 7th Gen Accord before buying my 3rd Gen TL (I missed the Acura feel). Here are a few observances between the TSX and the TL that kind of have me baffled.

Okay, the TL is supposed to be a step up from the TSX and both these generations span the same years. In most regards the TL is an upgrade, especially the engine and, IMO, the suspension. But why, if the TL is an upgrade from the TSX did Acura not initially make the TL's mirrors with integrated turn signals until 2007? My 2004 TSX had them already. Ditto with the factory fog lights. None for the TL until 2007 while the TSX had them from the start (I think they were an option, mine had them). Also the stereo. The 1st Gen TSX came with a 360 watt stereo which was the best factory unit I ever heard at the time. The TL comes with a 225 watt unit that sounds adequate but also kind of muffled as if the tweeters aren't that good. Also, the TSX had a set of speakers in the front and rear doors whereas the TL only has them in the front. The TSX has 2 subwoofers vs. the TL's 1.

Not bellyaching or anything as I really like my TL much better than my old TSX. However, these things just kind of left me scratching my head a little. Why give the lower end car all the extra goodies while leaving them out of the more expensive model? Maybe I'm looking at the two cars wrong and the TSX was never intended to be the lower end car, just one aimed at a different audience (?).

I know there are some very knowledgeable people on this forum, some who even work for Acura. Any insight on these differences? My apologies in advance if this is a subject that has been discussed before...I admit I didn't do a very thorough search.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

The tsx sound system is definitely not better than the TL's. The rears are two 6x9's(not a subwoofer) on the tsx, which produces higher spl but doesn't hit very low notes. The TL has an 8" subwoofer which hits lower notes and sounds much better. The tweeters on the TL definitely aren't bad though, I think it sounds better than the tsx in every way.
The tsx, in my opinion, has louder highs and moderately loud 6x9's which might make an untrained ear think it's better.
Audio experts might give a better explanation, but that's my

The TL has 5.1 surround sound which is pretty cool when I play movies on my stock screen. Gives the movies a much more realistic sound. TSX does NOT have this feature, nor does it have a center speaker.

The LED side mirror isn't really a big deal, some people don't even like them.

The tsx doesn't have as many features as the TL. Like I've stated above, the LED side mirror is a non-issue and the sound system is definitely not better

Couple (+) points for TL:
tilting mirrors in reverse
memory seats(tsx didnt get this until 2006)
bluetooth(tsx didnt get this until 2006)
cool blue mirrors
optional nav traffic
brembo brakes on 6mt
better handling stock for stock(6mt only)
a more reliable J series engine
one click auto passenger front window
backup camera(only for 07-08 TL)
LSD(6mt TL only, 6mt tsx does not have LSD)
aux input(only for 07-08 TL)
bixenon projectors
power lumbar adjustment
carbon fiber accents
sidemarkers
LED taillights

Couple things (+) for tsx off the top of my head:
more aftermarket parts since it was sold in japan(unlike TL)
hondata(TL didnt get this until 2013)
MUCH faster responding manual mode(compared to TL)
fold down rear seats

fcuked

when my system was stock it sounded better than my buddies 2006 tsx.

I upgraded my entire system but the tweeters because I think they sound pretty damn good.

I personally can't stand mirror turn signals, I think it ruins the car lol.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

Oh also, the TL sunroof button is 1 touch whereas in the tsx you have to hold it, and the rearview mirror has automatic dimming. I think for tsx that comes as a factory accessory that must be purchased separately. And the TL has active noise cancellation and speed sensitive volume

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the 2004-2006 TL's did have factory fogs, but just not located on the lower bumper.
they are integrated into the head light assembly.

not sure what fogs have to do with being an "upgrade" if all the acuras come with them...



I'm glad I dont have blinking side mirrors!!

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

This is not an uncommon thing. Besides my Type S, I am into Jeeps as well and the exact same thing is happening over there. Guys on the Grand Cherokee forums are baffled because other lower end vehicles in the Chrysler line up get all the "goodies" before the flagship Grand Cherokee. Things like LED tail lights. The Jeep compass had them starting in like 2011, but the Grand Cherokee STILL does not have LED tail lights. The Dodge Dart got the huge 8.4" uconnect navigation while the new Grand Cherokee still used the old school smaller nav up until 2013 that was used in Chrysler vehicles starting in 2008.
So they are all good questions and make people wonder how could the lower end model have some upgrades over the higher end vehicle. Usually you just have to wait for the mid cycle refresh like what happened with all the changes and upgrades starting in the 2007 TL. Or in another case the Grand Cherokee didnt get all the pimp shit until the mid cycle refreshed 2014.

Acuramon

Definitely have to disagree on the TL's sound system being better than the TSX's. Surround sound is nice but having spent considerable time with the TSX, I would say it has both better highs and lows which I enjoyed. 360 watts beats 225 watts in this instance, IMO. I'm a bit of an audiophile and the overall sound was nicer. I never felt a desire to upgrade the system in the TSX but like fcuked did, I'm thinking of doing that for my TL.

As far as the integrated lights on the mirror, I agree it's a matter of preference. I just find it strange that it wasn't offered at least as an option on the TL while it is standard on the TSX. I think the folks over at Acura must have looked at it as an upgrade since they eventually added them in 07.

I should have clarified that 04-06 the TL does come with fogs. I meant fogs on the lower bumper. Again, Acura eventually put them there. Not saying that's an upgrade just saying that to many people, as evidenced in the number who have modified their 04 - 06 TL's, it's a better look.

Paperboy, good catch on the 1 touch sunroof button. I'm not sure about the auto dimming mirror on the TSX. Mine came with it but I bought used so it may have been an option when new.

I know there are a lot of things the TL has that the TSX doesn't and I am not trying to bash the TL at all. So no need to get defensive. Like I said, I like the TL by far over the TSX. Those few things just made me wonder.

Acuramon

Seems peculiar to me but I guess they know what they're doing. The more I think about it, I guess auto makers have to put a few things in their lower end models to keep them appealing as well. Maybe some marketing strategy to keep people interested in both their entry level and flagship models until the next redesign is done.

main70072

I've had both as well, and do agree that the while TSX's sound system sounds larger, it feels a little "busy" in the driver's seat. The TL's system sounds much clearer IMO. Things that I do miss about the TSX are the foldable rear seats, and the trunk opening lever on the interior w/ power button on the trunk lid itself. The TL is limited to the power trunk which will make opening the trunk much more difficult in the event of a totally dead battery.

Now aside from that, the TL of course has more power. A few things that have not yet been mentioned... the TL has better leather, rear vents, and a dim yellow light inside the center console.

Acura_Dude

Probably irrelevant to the thread, but I like how Honda kept the similarities between the two cars (design language). The 1G TSX looks like a little sibling to the 3G TL. The headlights have similar shapes (same with the 4G and 2G TSX). It's the little things I've noticed from time to time.

BTW wasn't the 3G TL the first to offer LED taillights in the lineup and as far as I know it's the only one to have bi-xenon HIDs. I don't know why Acura didn't keep bi-xenons or actually used them across the lineup. I see that as a higher end feature. I don't know why Acura chose to use HIDs for lows and halogen for highs for the rest of the line up (not a deal breaker, but it seems they've cut corners imo; excluding the new LED headlights).

Also I remember when I first seen the fogs on in an 04-06 TL. Threw me off because of the color difference, but I like it. Guarantee you won't mistake and 04-06 TL for another car at night when the driver has the fogs on. It has its own distinctive look that's recognizeable.

GKinColo08TL

I had a Vigor that had the fogs integrated into the headlights, and I thought the 1G and 2G Tls had the same? The Vigor had yellow lenses so it was very identifiable. I like the separated fogs on the 07 and 08 tho...in real fog the lower the foglights the better.

main70072

1G TLs came with the same yellow lenses integrated into the headlights like the Vigor and it works great in the rain.

Acura604

I have to concur... previously owned 3 1G TSX ... I have to say the TSX stereo was pretty loud and could get quite bass-y depending on the song. BUT lack of MP3 was disappointing...and we Canadians didn't get XM option.

Also, I like the overhead sunglass holder as well. the TSX HID projectors also had a better factory cut-off than the TL. I dunno.. sometimes I actually want to go back to the TSX 1G but the only ones available now adays are high mileage, non navi... BUT then I sit in the TL-S and get on the open highway and as it skyrockets down the road, I realize - i'm in heaven.

nj2pa2nc

owned a 91 mazda mx-6 GT that had the foglights intergrated with the headlights. Other driver's thought I had my highbeams on when I tried to use them. Test drove both the tl and tsx when I was looking for a new car. IMO I made the right choice for me.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

you have no idea how many times people have asked me "is that a tsx?" or "nice tsx"

one time I even had someone said "I didnt know tsx's came with brembos"

apparently to most ppl they all look the same lol

thoiboi

The 3G TL headlights are so often overlooked . The 3G TL's Bi-Xenon's are arguably one of the best bi-xenon OEM setups out there. It sure beats the crappy Bosch projectors that come in BMWs and even higher-end cars like Bentleys. If you look on the hidplanet.com forums and theretrotfitsource, you'll see how many people rave about the TL's Bi-xenon. Yes, the TSX crystal sharp cutoff makes for an amazing low beam solution but, just throw on a ZKW lens on the TL and it'll blow the TSX out of the water!

I think TSX versus TL is a matter of preference. The TL breathes an air of luxury where as the TSX has a much sportier feel to it (hence the respective names). It's not that one is better than the other, it depends purely on application.

wise_optimist

I'm not sure if J-series engines are more reliable than K-series engines. I'd say just about the same, considering K-series engines tend to have higher rev limit (K24 - 7100 vs J32 - 6800).

For sure, automatic transmissions in TSX is more reliable than TL's though.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

how high an engine revs doesnt determine how reliable an engine is.

the K-series is in the civic and TSX and ILX and accords and CRV's

the J-series is in 3 generations of TL's, 3 or 4 generations of accords, pilots, saturn vues, RDX, MDX, RL, RLX, and many many more

ez12a

the differences between the two cars probably has to deal with the differences in design teams at the time. The TSX is a Euro accord. The TL is designed solely for the USDM.

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

Yeah I agree with this. I dont really care for the look of how they did the 04-06 headlights and fogs. I can see where people would always think they are high beams. Anytime you see a car coming head on and the inner housings are lit up its usually that they left their brights on. I would say atleast 90% of the time when driving at night the driver of the 04-06 TL does NOT have those fogs on. Where as most of the time I see an 07-08 TL the fogs are on because like most cars, they are located down low.
I for one rarely have my fogs on my 07 Type S. THey do little to nothing as they wont come anywhere close to out shining the HID's, and they only add extra glare to oncoming drivers. Three of my five shifts a week I get off work at 10pm so im always using my headlights and the TL's lights are great!! I always use bi-xenons and love them. I had a newer Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland which also had some pretty nice headiights that were bi-xenon. Actually automatic bi-xenon which went on and off depending on if a car was ahead of you...worked great!

IamaTL

I rock the fogs on anytime the lights are on. better contracts with the CBIs

jo-nathanpham

I can relate to that! I had an older man who owns a 3.7 and 5.0 Mustang, that thought my car was a TSX at a meet... He was taken aback when he asked what was under the hood and I told him it was a 6 - "I didn't know TSXs came with a V6!" Had to correct him quickly after that remark.

Somewhat on-topic - I test-drove my now-current TL and a TSX back-to-back at the dealership with my uncle in 2009. Both were 2005, silver, and non-nav. I actually had the impression that the TSX was peppier than the TL (maybe because I drove it in SportShift mode, as opposed to just Drive when I drove the TL).

Everywhere else though, the TL beat the TSX hands-down: stereo, interior layout and ergonomics, smooth power on hand when I drove it on the highway during the test-drive, etc... The only things I thought the TSX had the upper hand on were the folding rear seats; that, and the TSX was slightly more fun to toss around. I didn't even know about, nor pay attention to the turn-signal side mirrors.

After the test drives and sitting down to talk prices, it turned out that the TSX was less than $1,000 cheaper than the TL after we negotiated for both. With all the extras the TL came with, it was a no-brainer for my mom, uncle, and me.

Glad I went with it! Even before finding and joining AZ, I loved the looks of the TL over the TSX (these thoughts were confirmed once I started looking through progress threads!); the rear and the character line that runs through the side marker lights and door handles definitely set it apart from the TSX. You'll never see me mistake one for the other!

LaCostaRacer

I had a similar experience as jo-nathan above except it was 2006 and comparing the 2006 TSX and TL as new cars. I came into the dealership thinking I wanted a TSX and wound up ultimately getting a TL. The 2006 TSX definitely made it closer in features to its older brother TL.

The TSX had a better nav system, aux input that the TL was lacking. It was still the other stuff that made me pick the TL: power, refined features, and slightly larger size.

I also had to really think about if I needed that fold-down seat like I thought I did. I found that the pass-through port actually was better for many of the things I wind up hauling (things + people). I also did not like the console design, door pockets, sunroof switch location of the TSX. I'm still very happy with the TL.

I hate cars

I like the less busy looks of the early TLs with integrated fogs.

Fold down seats usually come at the expense of structural integrity. The behind the seat braces have to go away and they're extremely important for torsional rigidity.

The TSX had more NVH. I hate 4 cylinders anyway. Contrary to popular belief the TL out performs the TSX in every way. Cornering, braking, acceleration. Feel is one thing, measurements are another.

The TSX just looks cheaper and I hated the rear end. I looked at it as a comfortable commuter with good mpg or for those that couldn't afford a TL.

The TSX might have more aftermarket support but how much does it cost to get it to break even with a base 5at? How much would it cost to get it to break even with a 6mt TL-S.

Acuramon

Forgot about the fold down rear seats, mainly because I rarely used them. I do remember bringing some tables home in my old 6 gen Accord which had fold down seats and being a little surprised that I could fit so much in the trunk with the seats down. I think the TL has some levers where you can open the trunk if your battery is dead. I seem to remember reading about it in the owners manual but can't remember where the levers are located...lol.

Acuramon

True about the distinct fog lights on the TL. Also the similarities between the TL and TSX. I just parked in front of my neighbors silver TSX and took a second to admire both cars. Still like the TL better though.

Acuramon

I wish Acura had put the overhead sunglass holder in the TL. I don't like it being in the side pocket, it's not convenient enough. I usually find myself putting my sunglasses on the passenger seat or in the console when not using.

Acura_Dude

Just learned something new. I didn't know that. Thanks guys.

Do you know if the 2G TSX uses a clear lens like the previous gen? I ask because over on the 2G TSX side I read somewhere about a new owner raving about the cutoff and how sharp it is. I also wonder why the 3G didn't have one as well instead of the "fresnel" lens.

Acura_Dude

Did not know this as well.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

good points by IHC. any comments regarding the audio in both cars? I honestly feel like the TL els system is better than the tsx system, but seems like couple people disagree with me.

open the pass through hole, and reach up on the ceiling of the trunk, there is a hidden lever

I think the 2g tsx projectors use a semi-fresnel lens. If you look carefully, you can see it has subtle lines in the lens. Output is decent for stock though, 99% of people would be satisfied with it.

clear lenses arent always considered an "upgrade" to auto manufacturers. For example, Ap1 s2k's came with clear lenses but ap2's went back to fresnel. Reason is that too many ppl complained to honda about the blinding lights. What happens is that, with a clear lens, the transition between the cutoff is so sharp that it looks like you are being high beamed when the car goes over bumps. With a fresnel lens, the transition is slightly smoother. Output with a fresnel lens is decreased, but VERY marginally, I would estimate 5-10%

JTS97Z28

iTrader: (4)

^^^ yup he is correct. As bad ass as the cutoff is with the ZKW's I hated when I was going up a slight hill and there was an oncoming car. With that super sharp cutoff people ALWAYS thought you were high beaming them. Besides the fact that I dont want to jack anything up on my headlights, thats the other reason that im just going to leave my lights alone.

main70072

I got pulled over once by a cop in the old TSX. He told me I had my highs on and got embarrassed when he found out it wasn't and just blamed it on the fogs.

Acura_Dude

Thanks for the explanation. Didn't know the difference between lens' were just 5-10%. Very marginal indeed.

True.

main70072

For Acura_Dude and GKinColo08TL