The RR Journals: ATF drain and refill 3G Garage #C-012
08-01-2004, 02:36 PM
#1
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
The RR Journals: ATF drain and refill 3G Garage #C-012
Edit by Adm Ron A 2/1/08: There has been a major change in Acura's thinking on how to do this, and they have supplied a method for the 3 drain and flush procedure so you don't have to actually drive the car between drains. Here's the link to the Service News Article, and it's the first topic shown. http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/B080100.PDF
Note: This is purely posted on a gratuitous basis, and I can, and do not, make any warranty of accuracy or assume any liability whatsoever. This is standard Internet protocol, but I wish to ensure no misunderstandings. I have made every attempt to be accurate.
************************************************** ***********************
Here is a guide and some tips:
Equipment needed:
Safe jacking equipment and jack stands, 2 pairs preferred
17mm socket (3/8 - 1/2" size, 1/2" preferred) - a universal drive in either size is optional but recommended
extension for above, 8" -12"
Large torque wrench and/or breaker bar for socket
10 mm socket and ratchet wrench with 5" or greater extension
1 small flat blade screwdriver
1 oil fill extension (wide funnel with at least a 12" length to reach the filler opening)
1 Honda ATF drain plug gasket (optional)
3 quarts of Z1 spec ATF (Honda or equivalent - Amsoil Synthetic ATF is Z1 compliant per Amsoil Tech Services)
Drain pan and container for recycling old ATF (1 gallon)
Level - magnetic type optional
1 mechanics magnetic parts retriever or "fingers" type retriever (optional)
************************************************** ***********************
OK, here we go:
1) Warm the engine, or it can be done after the car has been off long enough for the exhaust to cool off so you do not get scorched. I have a big fan in my garage and it is AC'd.
2) Jack the car so you can easily get underneath the car to at least the midsection. Preferable to jack front and rear, and level the car using the level aligned to the frame rails. That way, you are sure to have the car positioned for a proper drain, and it makes refill easier (see below).
3) Position the jack stands and ensure stability of car.
4) Loosen the fill plug - it is a bit awkward to locate, and is on the driver side of the engine bay, and has "ATF? market on it - it will usually also have some color marking on it. It takes a 17mm socket, which I put on a 1/2" drive and universal on an 8" extension. Even with a hefty 1/2" ratchet, it was tight, so i had to "break" it with the large torque wrench - you could also use a breaker bar in the size drive you are using. Once broken, the fill plug unthreads easily. Come at the plug from the left bu snaking your arm under the hoses - you do not want this plug to fall in an inaccessible place, and the washer is unusually shaped as well. You can re-use the washer with no problem. If either the plug or the washer gets away from you, use a magnetic or finger retriever.
**** Cover the filler opening with a clean shop rag so no debris can get in ****
5) There is an under body aero/splash shield that needs to be swung out of the way - you do not need to remove it. Get the screwdriver and the 10mm socket/extension/ratchet. There are two threaded, long 10mm hex head bolts, one in the front, and one in the back. Remove the front one. The rear one is in a recessed spot - just loosen this one. The rest of the retainers (4 or 5) are the plastic clip types - there is a recess in the plastic head where the thin blade goes in, you pop up the retainer "pin", and then pull the whole thing out. Do this for all the others, and put them and the one 10mm bolt in a safe place.
6) Swing the splash shield to allow access to the drain bolt.
7) The drain bolt is accessed from the front of the car. If you imagine you are facing forward from the driver's seat, it will be on the "left" - under the car that means it will be left or right of your body. It is a golden bichromate color, and has a 1/2" square drive head - no other bolt in this area has that, so you should be able to locate it easily. Look for blue or perhaps a yellow or red marking on the bolt or on the tranny case near the bolt. This is used during assembly to indicate it has been tightened, and the tranny filled. Loosen this with the 1/2" drive - mine came loose without needing the breaker. Drain the tranny fluid. Examine the bolt and washer so you can see how the crush washer looks, and where the "roughened edge" is oriented. Let the tranny drain. While it is draining, you will note that the drain bolt has a magnet on its end, and it will have some fine metallic sludge on it (even at 1000 miles). This is normal wear material - it should be very fine, like graphite powder in in oil suspension. If you find chards of material, and the tranny has been acting odd, I would have either the dealer or a tranny shop examine it.
8) Once the tranny has started just to drip, wipe the area clean, and re-insert the plug and washer. I found the old washer to be in fine shape, and decided to re-use it, although I did have several new ones just in case. With Hondas, unless you have been somewhere where a gorilla overtightened a bolt, most Honda washers (crush type) can be re-used several times. It is up to you. Tighten to 36 fl/lbs. I just did it by feel - tightened it to snug, and then a bit more than that - do not over tighten!
9) Position the funnel/extension in the filler hole - MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAN! Dirt is anathema to a modern tranny, and even if you have to wash it, do so. Dry it as best you can, but a tiny bit of water left in the tube is OK. Dirt is not.
10) Add the 2 quarts - I was going to add half of the remaining 3rd quart, heat the car, recheck, refill, etc, but working over the hot engine and tranny is no fun in Virginia in August, so I figured "spec calls for 3 quarts - that's what I am adding". Since I had not extracted every last drop of any of the bottles, I was slightly below 3 quarts, but I also had not let the car drain for 10 hours as some of my more anal pals might. Now, you can either re-insert and tighten the fill plug bolt to 30#'s, or leave it open as you check the level as described below - I just tightened it, and used the old washer, as this is not an area that is always immersed in oil, so a leak is unlikely. If you choose to leave it off until you finish checking the level, REMEMBER TO REPLACE AND TIGHTEN IT LATER!
11) Check the level - here is where having the car level pays off. Honda's procedure is to start the car and let it idle until the cooling fan cycles once (turn off the Air conditioning for this). Cut the engine. Then, check the level immediately. The dipstick is located forward of the fill opening, about the middle of the distance from the firewall to the radiator. It has a yellow plastic covering on it. Remove it, wipe it clean, and re-insert - it has a slot that aligns with a tap on the dipstick tube, so it can only go in and seat one way. Pay attention to this or you will "short stick" things. I found that I was right on the money - at the top of filled range. If you are closer to the lower of the two "dots", you can add a bit more ATF fluid through the dipstick with a small funnel and thin tube, or through the main fill opening. Once the level is correct, replace the fill plug and tighten snugly.
12) Remove the jack stands and lower the car.
13) Start the car, put the car in reverse and drive and reverse a few times, then drive off. Check for leaks - I could see and touch the drain plug by reaching through the splash shield now that I knew where it was.
14) If you find a leak at the drain plug, check the torque. Worst case (and very unlikely) would be if you re-used the crush washer, and it deformed. My procedure would be to drain the fluid into an immaculately clean drain pan, and keep it covered and in a safe spot until you have remedied the drain plug/washer, then pour all of it back in through the fill hole. If you suspect that any dirt has migrated into the pan of fluid, it is safer to add fresh fluid - again, dirt is murder on these very precise automatic trannies.
15) You are done!
Edit by Mod Ron A 22Jun2005: I am adding a scan of the ATF replacement info from the service manual, which also shows where the drain plug and filler plug are located, and also the scan that shows the correct method for checking the ATF level.
Note: This is purely posted on a gratuitous basis, and I can, and do not, make any warranty of accuracy or assume any liability whatsoever. This is standard Internet protocol, but I wish to ensure no misunderstandings. I have made every attempt to be accurate.
************************************************** ***********************
Here is a guide and some tips:
Equipment needed:
Safe jacking equipment and jack stands, 2 pairs preferred
17mm socket (3/8 - 1/2" size, 1/2" preferred) - a universal drive in either size is optional but recommended
extension for above, 8" -12"
Large torque wrench and/or breaker bar for socket
10 mm socket and ratchet wrench with 5" or greater extension
1 small flat blade screwdriver
1 oil fill extension (wide funnel with at least a 12" length to reach the filler opening)
1 Honda ATF drain plug gasket (optional)
3 quarts of Z1 spec ATF (Honda or equivalent - Amsoil Synthetic ATF is Z1 compliant per Amsoil Tech Services)
Drain pan and container for recycling old ATF (1 gallon)
Level - magnetic type optional
1 mechanics magnetic parts retriever or "fingers" type retriever (optional)
************************************************** ***********************
OK, here we go:
1) Warm the engine, or it can be done after the car has been off long enough for the exhaust to cool off so you do not get scorched. I have a big fan in my garage and it is AC'd.
2) Jack the car so you can easily get underneath the car to at least the midsection. Preferable to jack front and rear, and level the car using the level aligned to the frame rails. That way, you are sure to have the car positioned for a proper drain, and it makes refill easier (see below).
3) Position the jack stands and ensure stability of car.
4) Loosen the fill plug - it is a bit awkward to locate, and is on the driver side of the engine bay, and has "ATF? market on it - it will usually also have some color marking on it. It takes a 17mm socket, which I put on a 1/2" drive and universal on an 8" extension. Even with a hefty 1/2" ratchet, it was tight, so i had to "break" it with the large torque wrench - you could also use a breaker bar in the size drive you are using. Once broken, the fill plug unthreads easily. Come at the plug from the left bu snaking your arm under the hoses - you do not want this plug to fall in an inaccessible place, and the washer is unusually shaped as well. You can re-use the washer with no problem. If either the plug or the washer gets away from you, use a magnetic or finger retriever.
**** Cover the filler opening with a clean shop rag so no debris can get in ****
5) There is an under body aero/splash shield that needs to be swung out of the way - you do not need to remove it. Get the screwdriver and the 10mm socket/extension/ratchet. There are two threaded, long 10mm hex head bolts, one in the front, and one in the back. Remove the front one. The rear one is in a recessed spot - just loosen this one. The rest of the retainers (4 or 5) are the plastic clip types - there is a recess in the plastic head where the thin blade goes in, you pop up the retainer "pin", and then pull the whole thing out. Do this for all the others, and put them and the one 10mm bolt in a safe place.
6) Swing the splash shield to allow access to the drain bolt.
7) The drain bolt is accessed from the front of the car. If you imagine you are facing forward from the driver's seat, it will be on the "left" - under the car that means it will be left or right of your body. It is a golden bichromate color, and has a 1/2" square drive head - no other bolt in this area has that, so you should be able to locate it easily. Look for blue or perhaps a yellow or red marking on the bolt or on the tranny case near the bolt. This is used during assembly to indicate it has been tightened, and the tranny filled. Loosen this with the 1/2" drive - mine came loose without needing the breaker. Drain the tranny fluid. Examine the bolt and washer so you can see how the crush washer looks, and where the "roughened edge" is oriented. Let the tranny drain. While it is draining, you will note that the drain bolt has a magnet on its end, and it will have some fine metallic sludge on it (even at 1000 miles). This is normal wear material - it should be very fine, like graphite powder in in oil suspension. If you find chards of material, and the tranny has been acting odd, I would have either the dealer or a tranny shop examine it.
8) Once the tranny has started just to drip, wipe the area clean, and re-insert the plug and washer. I found the old washer to be in fine shape, and decided to re-use it, although I did have several new ones just in case. With Hondas, unless you have been somewhere where a gorilla overtightened a bolt, most Honda washers (crush type) can be re-used several times. It is up to you. Tighten to 36 fl/lbs. I just did it by feel - tightened it to snug, and then a bit more than that - do not over tighten!
9) Position the funnel/extension in the filler hole - MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAN! Dirt is anathema to a modern tranny, and even if you have to wash it, do so. Dry it as best you can, but a tiny bit of water left in the tube is OK. Dirt is not.
10) Add the 2 quarts - I was going to add half of the remaining 3rd quart, heat the car, recheck, refill, etc, but working over the hot engine and tranny is no fun in Virginia in August, so I figured "spec calls for 3 quarts - that's what I am adding". Since I had not extracted every last drop of any of the bottles, I was slightly below 3 quarts, but I also had not let the car drain for 10 hours as some of my more anal pals might. Now, you can either re-insert and tighten the fill plug bolt to 30#'s, or leave it open as you check the level as described below - I just tightened it, and used the old washer, as this is not an area that is always immersed in oil, so a leak is unlikely. If you choose to leave it off until you finish checking the level, REMEMBER TO REPLACE AND TIGHTEN IT LATER!
11) Check the level - here is where having the car level pays off. Honda's procedure is to start the car and let it idle until the cooling fan cycles once (turn off the Air conditioning for this). Cut the engine. Then, check the level immediately. The dipstick is located forward of the fill opening, about the middle of the distance from the firewall to the radiator. It has a yellow plastic covering on it. Remove it, wipe it clean, and re-insert - it has a slot that aligns with a tap on the dipstick tube, so it can only go in and seat one way. Pay attention to this or you will "short stick" things. I found that I was right on the money - at the top of filled range. If you are closer to the lower of the two "dots", you can add a bit more ATF fluid through the dipstick with a small funnel and thin tube, or through the main fill opening. Once the level is correct, replace the fill plug and tighten snugly.
12) Remove the jack stands and lower the car.
13) Start the car, put the car in reverse and drive and reverse a few times, then drive off. Check for leaks - I could see and touch the drain plug by reaching through the splash shield now that I knew where it was.
14) If you find a leak at the drain plug, check the torque. Worst case (and very unlikely) would be if you re-used the crush washer, and it deformed. My procedure would be to drain the fluid into an immaculately clean drain pan, and keep it covered and in a safe spot until you have remedied the drain plug/washer, then pour all of it back in through the fill hole. If you suspect that any dirt has migrated into the pan of fluid, it is safer to add fresh fluid - again, dirt is murder on these very precise automatic trannies.
15) You are done!
Edit by Mod Ron A 22Jun2005: I am adding a scan of the ATF replacement info from the service manual, which also shows where the drain plug and filler plug are located, and also the scan that shows the correct method for checking the ATF level.
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08-01-2004, 05:28 PM
#2
Intermediate
Do you run Amsoil ATF in your transmission now?
I see that some members have say it's ok, but an Amsoil dealer in town told me no don't do it. He said that Amsoil ATF in Honda will make it shift hard, so hard he felt it may break something. Some members say it shift fine, so I don't know who to believe.
I see that some members have say it's ok, but an Amsoil dealer in town told me no don't do it. He said that Amsoil ATF in Honda will make it shift hard, so hard he felt it may break something. Some members say it shift fine, so I don't know who to believe.
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JC06TL (11-10-2019)
08-01-2004, 07:24 PM
#3
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
I contacted Amsoil technical Services and thery stand by its compatibility with Honda Z1 - a slightoly harder shift almost always results in less wear. For obvious reasons, I will keep my choices to myself, but the fact that I bothered to contact Amsoil tech Svcs and published their response should tell you something. My car shifts just fine.
That post was a lot of work - was it helpful to you? It is hard for me to tell on this Forum whether these sorts of posts are useful, or are most TL'ers people with clean hands who pump gas now and then, and when they raise they hood, panic?
That post was a lot of work - was it helpful to you? It is hard for me to tell on this Forum whether these sorts of posts are useful, or are most TL'ers people with clean hands who pump gas now and then, and when they raise they hood, panic?
12-12-2004, 03:46 PM
#5
ABP Auditor
Yes, thank you VERY much for your helpful and useful threads. I am a DIY'er and either I do it or if it is beyond my skills or tool set, the Dealer (which I avoid if at all possible). I haven't changed out the tranny fluid as I have had no need but now know where to go for good info if/when I do it. I have changed it in my other auto car (van actually) with no problems.
12-12-2004, 07:03 PM
#6
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Update: I've got 4000 miles on Amsoil ATF, the weather has turned cold, and the tranny shifts smoothly - it is hard to detect the shifts unless watching the tach.
12-13-2004, 01:10 PM
#7
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RoadRage...your posts are always useful. From hands-on DIY to general advice to reviews of products to recommendations...oh, and to butt prints...keep it comin'. I read everything you post here, on S2KI.com, and on BITOG.com. You just know too damn much, have way too much access to top equipment, and are happy to share it free of charge. I knew I bought the right car. Thanks.
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12-13-2004, 07:43 PM
#8
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by Road Rage
That post was a lot of work - was it helpful to you? It is hard for me to tell on this Forum whether these sorts of posts are useful, or are most TL'ers people with clean hands who pump gas now and then, and when they raise they hood, panic?
You're kidding right?
I can't exactly speak for everyone but HECK YA these post are very useful. Even for me, a mostly clean hands type (but informed). At the very worst, your info post tell me what I don't want to do. At the best they provide me with necessary information for task I might tackle or have to an intelligent conversation with the repair person. Perhaps it's the other way around. Please keep them coming, your time permitting.
Mike
12-14-2004, 07:41 AM
#9
Supreme Underlord/Abyss
Originally Posted by Road Rage
That post was a lot of work - was it helpful to you? It is hard for me to tell on this Forum whether these sorts of posts are useful, or are most TL'ers people with clean hands who pump gas now and then, and when they raise they hood, panic?
I'll owe you "points" the next time I can give 'em to you.
BTW, I often work on my own cars...the most recent major job I did was the timing chain on my 1987 Dodge Diplomat. That said, I *still* look under the hood of the Acura and panic!
(At least its first oil change was EASY)
Regards,
12-14-2004, 09:40 AM
#11
Supreme Underlord/Abyss
Originally Posted by KilroyR1
This would be more helpfull if you had a 6MT ;-).
12-15-2004, 02:42 PM
#12
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Thx for the support - I will keep on, keepin on. It is just there is so much "chatter" on this Forum - it really needs a Tech section where guys like me can stretch their legs a bit. That way, we don't pizz off the butt printers, LED fetishists, "how come the car doesn't....?'s, and one of my recent favs, the "the rear defroster on my old Corolla was faster". Having never owned one of those great bastions of advanced automotive design, I simply am out of my league.
I mean, how much of the day can one devote to what one DOESN'T LIKE?
Maybe I need to transplant a 6MT? Actually, i did not like it when i drove the Accord V6 coupe - clutch uptake feel stunk compared to the S2000.
Tight TL: Thx especially for the +++ feedback.
I mean, how much of the day can one devote to what one DOESN'T LIKE?
Maybe I need to transplant a 6MT? Actually, i did not like it when i drove the Accord V6 coupe - clutch uptake feel stunk compared to the S2000.
Tight TL: Thx especially for the +++ feedback.
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JC06TL (11-10-2019)
12-15-2004, 03:07 PM
#13
Supreme Underlord/Abyss
Originally Posted by Road Rage
Thx for the support - I will keep on, keepin on. It is just there is so much "chatter" on this Forum - it really needs a Tech section where guys like me can stretch their legs a bit. That way, we don't pizz off the butt printers, LED fetishists, "how come the car doesn't....?'s, and one of my recent favs, the "the rear defroster on my old Corolla was faster". Having never owned one of those great bastions of advanced automotive design, I simply am out of my league.
Oh, and the butt prints in my Solara are faster than the ones in my TL. Or something like that.
Keep up the great work. Us "car guys" (the ones who DO get our hands dirty) appreciate it.
Regards,
12-15-2004, 03:34 PM
#14
Intermediate
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You guys need to make sure that changing brands of ATF does not void your warranty. On my Accord, if you use anything else but Honda ATF, it voids the warranty.
(transmission part, not the whole thing obviously)
(transmission part, not the whole thing obviously)
12-15-2004, 08:53 PM
#15
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by v6akord02
You guys need to make sure that changing brands of ATF does not void your warranty. On my Accord, if you use anything else but Honda ATF, it voids the warranty.
(transmission part, not the whole thing obviously)
(transmission part, not the whole thing obviously)
12-15-2004, 09:56 PM
#16
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No offence taken. If you can correct me, by all means, please do. We are all here to learn.
Back to topic though. Yes, if you use anything other than honda ATF in a Accord trannny, they could void the warranty. I spoke with two dealers and other Accord owners and all said the same thing. The oil was a different story. As long as it met specks, you are good, but not the ATF. You must use theirs. I'm not defending it, I'm just passing on information I was given.
Back to topic though. Yes, if you use anything other than honda ATF in a Accord trannny, they could void the warranty. I spoke with two dealers and other Accord owners and all said the same thing. The oil was a different story. As long as it met specks, you are good, but not the ATF. You must use theirs. I'm not defending it, I'm just passing on information I was given.
12-15-2004, 10:09 PM
#17
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by v6akord02
No offence taken. If you can correct me, by all means, please do. We are all here to learn.
Back to topic though. Yes, if you use anything other than honda ATF in a Accord trannny, they could void the warranty. I spoke with two dealers and other Accord owners and all said the same thing. The oil was a different story. As long as it met specks, you are good, but not the ATF. You must use theirs. I'm not defending it, I'm just passing on information I was given.
Back to topic though. Yes, if you use anything other than honda ATF in a Accord trannny, they could void the warranty. I spoke with two dealers and other Accord owners and all said the same thing. The oil was a different story. As long as it met specks, you are good, but not the ATF. You must use theirs. I'm not defending it, I'm just passing on information I was given.
12-16-2004, 04:54 AM
#18
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The Magnusson-Moss warranty protection act prevents OEM's from demanding use of
their private labled oils/filters and making it a warranty issue unless they give it to you for
free.
Craig
their private labled oils/filters and making it a warranty issue unless they give it to you for
free.
Craig
12-17-2004, 05:58 PM
#19
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by v6akord02
No offence taken. If you can correct me, by all means, please do. We are all here to learn.
Back to topic though. Yes, if you use anything other than honda ATF in a Accord trannny, they could void the warranty. I spoke with two dealers and other Accord owners and all said the same thing. The oil was a different story. As long as it met specks, you are good, but not the ATF. You must use theirs. I'm not defending it, I'm just passing on information I was given.
Back to topic though. Yes, if you use anything other than honda ATF in a Accord trannny, they could void the warranty. I spoke with two dealers and other Accord owners and all said the same thing. The oil was a different story. As long as it met specks, you are good, but not the ATF. You must use theirs. I'm not defending it, I'm just passing on information I was given.
People get "voided warranty" and "denied repair claim" mixed up. They are not the same thing. A warranty can only be voided in writing. You would then be able to sue in small claims demanding to have the mfr prove that the lubricant was the proximate cause of the failure. They of course could not do so, and you can invoke both Amsoil tech services and the M-M Act.
"Denied repair claim" is just that - an individual's dealer's response to your service "demand". You can often settle it with a calm discussion with the service mgr or dealership management. If not, again sue in small claims.
Finally, show me where in the TL manual it says anything about using other than Honda fluid voiding anything? It says something to the effect that the "shift quality may change". That is miles away from a dire warning.
I have seen Dexron II work poorly in previous Honda automatics. Its differences in additive chemistry often caused "flare" in downshifting.
I added Z-1 after carefully weighing the technical info available to me, obtaining in writing Amsoil's certification of suitability for the TL, and its commitment to stand behind its product in this use.
I can attest to over 5000 miles with perfect shift action, and better fuel economy.
Naturally, the recommendation here was not thrown out in haste: There is the prerequisite RR Journal and full disclosure:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=RR+Journals
Peace Out, RR!!
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JC06TL (11-10-2019)
12-17-2004, 06:34 PM
#20
05/5AT/Navi/ABP/Quartz
Originally Posted by Road Rage
I posted previously that Amsoil specifically specs Honda spec Z-1 for its formula. In the case of a lubricant related failure, Amsoil claims it will investigate and cover the loss.
People get "voided warranty" and "denied repair claim" mixed up. They are not the same thing. A warranty can only be voided in writing. You would then be able to sue in small claims demanding to have the mfr prove that the lubricant was the proximate cause of the failure. They of course could not do so, and you can invoke both Amsoil tech services and the M-M Act.
"Denied repair claim" is just that - an individual's dealer's response to your service "demand". You can often settle it with a calm discussion with the service mgr or dealership management. If not, again sue in small claims.
Finally, show me where in the TL manual it says anything about using other than Honda fluid voiding anything? It says something to the effect that the "shift quality may change". That is miles away from a dire warning.
I have seen Dexron II work poorly in previous Honda automatics. Its differences in additive chemistry often caused "flare" in downshifting.
I added Z-1 after carefully weighing the technical info available to me, obtaining in writing Amsoil's certification of suitability for the TL, and its commitment to stand behind its product in this use.
I can attest to over 5000 miles with perfect shift action, and better fuel economy.
Naturally, the recommendation here was not thrown out in haste: There is the prerequisite RR Journal and full disclosure:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=RR+Journals
Peace Out, RR!!
People get "voided warranty" and "denied repair claim" mixed up. They are not the same thing. A warranty can only be voided in writing. You would then be able to sue in small claims demanding to have the mfr prove that the lubricant was the proximate cause of the failure. They of course could not do so, and you can invoke both Amsoil tech services and the M-M Act.
"Denied repair claim" is just that - an individual's dealer's response to your service "demand". You can often settle it with a calm discussion with the service mgr or dealership management. If not, again sue in small claims.
Finally, show me where in the TL manual it says anything about using other than Honda fluid voiding anything? It says something to the effect that the "shift quality may change". That is miles away from a dire warning.
I have seen Dexron II work poorly in previous Honda automatics. Its differences in additive chemistry often caused "flare" in downshifting.
I added Z-1 after carefully weighing the technical info available to me, obtaining in writing Amsoil's certification of suitability for the TL, and its commitment to stand behind its product in this use.
I can attest to over 5000 miles with perfect shift action, and better fuel economy.
Naturally, the recommendation here was not thrown out in haste: There is the prerequisite RR Journal and full disclosure:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=RR+Journals
Peace Out, RR!!
Mike
12-17-2004, 10:05 PM
#21
Boom goes the Dynamite
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
I contacted Amsoil technical Services and thery stand by its compatibility with Honda Z1 - a slightoly harder shift almost always results in less wear. For obvious reasons, I will keep my choices to myself, but the fact that I bothered to contact Amsoil tech Svcs and published their response should tell you something. My car shifts just fine.
That post was a lot of work - was it helpful to you? It is hard for me to tell on this Forum whether these sorts of posts are useful, or are most TL'ers people with clean hands who pump gas now and then, and when they raise they hood, panic?
That post was a lot of work - was it helpful to you? It is hard for me to tell on this Forum whether these sorts of posts are useful, or are most TL'ers people with clean hands who pump gas now and then, and when they raise they hood, panic?
12-18-2004, 01:40 AM
#22
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New guy question...
Originally Posted by Road Rage
I posted previously that Amsoil specifically specs Honda spec Z-1 for its formula. In the case of a lubricant related failure, Amsoil claims it will investigate and cover the loss.
People get "voided warranty" and "denied repair claim" mixed up. They are not the same thing. A warranty can only be voided in writing. You would then be able to sue in small claims demanding to have the mfr prove that the lubricant was the proximate cause of the failure. They of course could not do so, and you can invoke both Amsoil tech services and the M-M Act.
"Denied repair claim" is just that - an individual's dealer's response to your service "demand". You can often settle it with a calm discussion with the service mgr or dealership management. If not, again sue in small claims.
Finally, show me where in the TL manual it says anything about using other than Honda fluid voiding anything? It says something to the effect that the "shift quality may change". That is miles away from a dire warning.
I have seen Dexron II work poorly in previous Honda automatics. Its differences in additive chemistry often caused "flare" in downshifting.
I added Z-1 after carefully weighing the technical info available to me, obtaining in writing Amsoil's certification of suitability for the TL, and its commitment to stand behind its product in this use.
I can attest to over 5000 miles with perfect shift action, and better fuel economy.
Naturally, the recommendation here was not thrown out in haste: There is the prerequisite RR Journal and full disclosure:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=RR+Journals
Peace Out, RR!!
People get "voided warranty" and "denied repair claim" mixed up. They are not the same thing. A warranty can only be voided in writing. You would then be able to sue in small claims demanding to have the mfr prove that the lubricant was the proximate cause of the failure. They of course could not do so, and you can invoke both Amsoil tech services and the M-M Act.
"Denied repair claim" is just that - an individual's dealer's response to your service "demand". You can often settle it with a calm discussion with the service mgr or dealership management. If not, again sue in small claims.
Finally, show me where in the TL manual it says anything about using other than Honda fluid voiding anything? It says something to the effect that the "shift quality may change". That is miles away from a dire warning.
I have seen Dexron II work poorly in previous Honda automatics. Its differences in additive chemistry often caused "flare" in downshifting.
I added Z-1 after carefully weighing the technical info available to me, obtaining in writing Amsoil's certification of suitability for the TL, and its commitment to stand behind its product in this use.
I can attest to over 5000 miles with perfect shift action, and better fuel economy.
Naturally, the recommendation here was not thrown out in haste: There is the prerequisite RR Journal and full disclosure:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=RR+Journals
Peace Out, RR!!
In the other thread you referred to, you mention that you've drained and refilled twice, putting you at ~86% Amsoil ATF. However, on the second drain/refill aren't you draining a mixture of old and new ATF? Going by your numbers (3.2/7.4 qts per drain/fill cycle), after one cycle you'd be at about 43% new and 57% old, so by draining out 3.2 qts of that mix on the second go around, you'd be at ~68% Amsoil rather than 86%. After a third cycle you'd be up to 82% new ATF. Or is my math wrong? The reason I'm asking isn't to dispute your numbers, I've learned a ton over the last few months from reading your posts and have a great respect for your knowledge and your willingness to share it with everyone. Rather, I wonder if you feel that changing 2/3 of the fluid is good enough, or would you recommend either:
a) Doing it a third time, or
b) Using the pumping technique that synoil mentions.
Lance
12-18-2004, 07:59 AM
#23
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The pumping technique is an old one that replaces most of the trans oil in one try.
Not sure if it works in FWD cars as I am really in the shallow end of the pool in the tranny dept.
Anyway the line that takes ATF to the end of the radiator for cooling can be interupted and while the engine is running the old ATF is taken from the interrupted cooling line and
new ATF is poured in from top at the same time. This drains the torque converter
and all. Now as I said I'm fairly ignorant of FWD trannies. I don't even know if they have
a torque converter. So I completely defer to Road Rage.
The oil change shop near me has a machine that changes the atf using this tecnique.
I'll look into this to better my knowledge base in FWD trannies.
Craig
Not sure if it works in FWD cars as I am really in the shallow end of the pool in the tranny dept.
Anyway the line that takes ATF to the end of the radiator for cooling can be interupted and while the engine is running the old ATF is taken from the interrupted cooling line and
new ATF is poured in from top at the same time. This drains the torque converter
and all. Now as I said I'm fairly ignorant of FWD trannies. I don't even know if they have
a torque converter. So I completely defer to Road Rage.
The oil change shop near me has a machine that changes the atf using this tecnique.
I'll look into this to better my knowledge base in FWD trannies.
Craig
12-18-2004, 01:49 PM
#24
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by rsc123az
Road Rage,
In the other thread you referred to, you mention that you've drained and refilled twice, putting you at ~86% Amsoil ATF. However, on the second drain/refill aren't you draining a mixture of old and new ATF? Going by your numbers (3.2/7.4 qts per drain/fill cycle), after one cycle you'd be at about 43% new and 57% old, so by draining out 3.2 qts of that mix on the second go around, you'd be at ~68% Amsoil rather than 86%. After a third cycle you'd be up to 82% new ATF. Or is my math wrong? The reason I'm asking isn't to dispute your numbers, I've learned a ton over the last few months from reading your posts and have a great respect for your knowledge and your willingness to share it with everyone. Rather, I wonder if you feel that changing 2/3 of the fluid is good enough, or would you recommend either:
a) Doing it a third time, or
b) Using the pumping technique that synoil mentions.
Lance
In the other thread you referred to, you mention that you've drained and refilled twice, putting you at ~86% Amsoil ATF. However, on the second drain/refill aren't you draining a mixture of old and new ATF? Going by your numbers (3.2/7.4 qts per drain/fill cycle), after one cycle you'd be at about 43% new and 57% old, so by draining out 3.2 qts of that mix on the second go around, you'd be at ~68% Amsoil rather than 86%. After a third cycle you'd be up to 82% new ATF. Or is my math wrong? The reason I'm asking isn't to dispute your numbers, I've learned a ton over the last few months from reading your posts and have a great respect for your knowledge and your willingness to share it with everyone. Rather, I wonder if you feel that changing 2/3 of the fluid is good enough, or would you recommend either:
a) Doing it a third time, or
b) Using the pumping technique that synoil mentions.
Lance
2 drain/refills is fine. Actually one is a good start and should not scare anyone away from changing out the fluid. Since I do the ATF fluid drain and refill every year, this spring I will be at >80% as you indicate. It is so easy on this car, that it is not worth debating IMO. Especially with the rather iffy track record of this tranny.
I do not think Synoil's technique will work. I do not recall seeing the ATF go into a radiator liquid to liquid cooler - the TL's cooler is a very efficient "pancake" oil to coolant type mounted on top of the tranny. I could of course be quite wrong.
Synoil: There is most assuredly a TC in this car - not sure how anyone would make an automatic without one, unless we perhaps see use of magnetic fluid or some variable density magic potion in the future, which would allow the flywheel to "slip" at idle, and immediately lock up when it detects the TBW (throttle by wire) has been pressed.
My old Mercedes actually had a "nipple" on the torque converter that allowed full fluid changes - they do not do thaqt anymore that I am aware of,e xcept perhaps in some of the diesels. They do not build them as they used to, that is for sure.
Glad this is helpful to you, and I appreciate the kind words and recogs.
Off topic: We are developing a super aerosol technology - Siemens is looking into applying it to fuel injectors. It creates a much more rarified fuel/air mixture, possibly producing both cleaner and more pwoerful combustion down the road. As Siemens is the major supplier of FI's to Ford domestically, and huge worldwide, the financial implications of this are huge.
Plus, yi will allow for far greater efficiency of delivery of aerosol medications, which are only about 25% efficient. the Super Air is about 90%. Financial and health implications are tremendous there as well.
12-20-2004, 07:15 PM
#27
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by synoil
Road Rage,
Would these new "injectors" be similar to the HDPI systems we are now seeing in
large 2 stroke outboards?
Craig
Would these new "injectors" be similar to the HDPI systems we are now seeing in
large 2 stroke outboards?
Craig
10-22-2005, 05:48 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Road Rage
7) The drain bolt is accessed from the front of the car. If you imagine you are facing forward from the driver's seat, it will be on the "left" - under the car that means it will be left or right of your body. It is a golden dichromate color, and has a 1/2" square drive head - no toher bolt in this area has that, so you sould be able to locate it easily. Look for blue or perhaps a yellow or red marking on the bolt or on the tranny case near the bolt. This is used during assembly to indicate it has been tightened, and the tranny filled. Loosen this with the 1/2" drive - mine came loose without needing the breaker. Drain the tranny fluid.
Once quick correction... the Drain bolt is a 3/8" square drive head and not the 1/2" square drive head as RR mentioned. Some of the "scarcely tooled" guys like myself might have to run out in the middle of the project
12-27-2005, 08:17 AM
#30
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UPDATE: For tranny's that had the 2nd gear oil-jet kit installed, you cannot use the fill plug to refill your tranny as Acura has chosen that to be the location to put their kit. 
Dealer says you can refill using the dipstick opening.
.....Very small opening funnel required.
Dealer says you can refill using the dipstick opening.
.....Very small opening funnel required.
12-27-2005, 04:41 PM
#31
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RR, would you please explain this. I'm not a 5AT guy, but this is interesting. Why would a harder shift result in less wear ? I thought the reverse would be true as a hard shift would result in more drive line shock therefore causing more wear.
Originally Posted by Road Rage
I contacted Amsoil technical Services and thery stand by its compatibility with Honda Z1 - a slightoly harder shift almost always results in less wear.
12-27-2005, 05:53 PM
#32
Not driveline wear, transmission wear, as in the clutches inside the transmission.
As the transmission shifts between gears, things slip, the more they slip, the more wear you get, the firmer the shift, the less wear.
The TL transmission locks up gears 3 to 5, the Passat locked up all the gears I think.
Each gear has a clutch to smooth shifting between gears, and the tourqe converter also locks up with a clutch I think.
Brett
As the transmission shifts between gears, things slip, the more they slip, the more wear you get, the firmer the shift, the less wear.
The TL transmission locks up gears 3 to 5, the Passat locked up all the gears I think.
Each gear has a clutch to smooth shifting between gears, and the tourqe converter also locks up with a clutch I think.
Brett
03-09-2006, 07:42 PM
#33
Not a Blowhole
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by triggle
RR, would you please explain this. I'm not a 5AT guy, but this is interesting. Why would a harder shift result in less wear ? I thought the reverse would be true as a hard shift would result in more drive line shock therefore causing more wear.
An AT has clutches - lots of them. When they engage "soft", such as to provide a Lexus-like, buttery smooth shift, the surfaces are sliding against one another more than when the shift is "hard". A hard shift results in less frictional and abrasive wear. Try rubbing your palms together quickly - got it?
So all things being equal, the harder the shift, the less the wear. That is the basis for Amsoil's response.
07-27-2007, 02:20 PM
#34
Senior Moderator
This topic is constantly coming up so I think I'll bump this thread for the noobies.
Noobies sometimes haven't found the 3G Garage or the "Search" funtion.
Noobies sometimes haven't found the 3G Garage or the "Search" funtion.
10-07-2007, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
Note: This is purely posted on a gratuitous basis, and I can, and do not, make any warranty of accuracy or assume any liability whatsoever. This is standard Internet protocol, but I wish to ensure no misunderstandings. I have made every attempt to be accurate.
************************************************** ***********************
Here is a guide and some tips:
Equipment needed:
Safe jacking equipment and jack stands, 2 pairs preferred
17mm socket (3/8 - 1/2" size, 1/2" preferred) - a universal drive in either size is optional but recommended
extension for above, 8" -12"
Large torque wrench and/or breaker bar for socket
10 mm socket and ratchet wrench with 5" or greater extension
1 small flat blade screwdriver
1 oil fill extension (wide funnel with at least a 12" length to reach the filler opening)
1 Honda ATF drain plug gasket (optional)
3 quarts of Z1 spec ATF (Honda or equivalent - Amsoil Synthetic ATF is Z1 compliant per Amsoil Tech Services)
Drain pan and container for recycling old ATF (1 gallon)
Level - magnetic type optional
1 mechanics magnetic parts retriever or "fingers" type retriever (optional)
************************************************** ***********************
OK, here we go:
1) Warm the engine, or it can be done after the car has been off long enough for the exhaust to cool off so you do not get scorched. I have a big fan in my garage and it is AC'd.
2) Jack the car so you can easily get underneath the car to at least the midsection. Preferable to jack front and rear, and level the car using the level aligned to the frame rails. That way, you are sure to have the car positioned for a proper drain, and it makes refill easier (see below).
3) Position the jack stands and ensure stability of car.
4) Loosen the fill plug - it is a bit awkward to locate, and is on the driver side of the engine bay, and has "ATF? market on it - it will usually also have some color marking on it. It takes a 17mm socket, which I put on a 1/2" drive and universal on an 8" extension. Even with a hefty 1/2" ratchet, it was tight, so i had to "break" it with the large torque wrench - you could also use a breaker bar in the size drive you are using. Once broken, the fill plug unthreads easily. Come at the plug from the left bu snaking your arm under the hoses - you do not want this plug to fall in an inaccessible place, and the washer is unusually shaped as well. You can re-use the washer with no problem. If either the plug or the washer gets away from you, use a magnetic or finger retriever.
**** Cover the filler opening with a clean shop rag so no debris can get in ****
5) There is an under body aero/splash shield that needs to be swung out of the way - you do not need to remove it. Get the screwdriver and the 10mm socket/extension/ratchet. There are two threaded, long 10mm hex head bolts, one in the front, and one in the back. Remove the front one. The rear one is in a recessed spot - just loosen this one. The rest of the retainers (4 or 5) are the plastic clip types - there is a recess in the plastic head where the thin blade goes in, you pop up the retainer "pin", and then pull the whole thing out. Do this for all the others, and put them and the one 10mm bolt in a safe place.
6) Swing the splash shield to allow access to the drain bolt.
7) The drain bolt is accessed from the front of the car. If you imagine you are facing forward from the driver's seat, it will be on the "left" - under the car that means it will be left or right of your body. It is a golden bichromate color, and has a 1/2" square drive head - no other bolt in this area has that, so you should be able to locate it easily. Look for blue or perhaps a yellow or red marking on the bolt or on the tranny case near the bolt. This is used during assembly to indicate it has been tightened, and the tranny filled. Loosen this with the 1/2" drive - mine came loose without needing the breaker. Drain the tranny fluid. Examine the bolt and washer so you can see how the crush washer looks, and where the "roughened edge" is oriented. Let the tranny drain. While it is draining, you will note that the drain bolt has a magnet on its end, and it will have some fine metallic sludge on it (even at 1000 miles). This is normal wear material - it should be very fine, like graphite powder in in oil suspension. If you find chards of material, and the tranny has been acting odd, I would have either the dealer or a tranny shop examine it.
8) Once the tranny has started just to drip, wipe the area clean, and re-insert the plug and washer. I found the old washer to be in fine shape, and decided to re-use it, although I did have several new ones just in case. With Hondas, unless you have been somewhere where a gorilla overtightened a bolt, most Honda washers (crush type) can be re-used several times. It is up to you. Tighten to 36 fl/lbs. I just did it by feel - tightened it to snug, and then a bit more than that - do not over tighten!
9) Position the funnel/extension in the filler hole - MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAN! Dirt is anathema to a modern tranny, and even if you have to wash it, do so. Dry it as best you can, but a tiny bit of water left in the tube is OK. Dirt is not.
10) Add the 2 quarts - I was going to add half of the remaining 3rd quart, heat the car, recheck, refill, etc, but working over the hot engine and tranny is no fun in Virginia in August, so I figured "spec calls for 3 quarts - that's what I am adding". Since I had not extracted every last drop of any of the bottles, I was slightly below 3 quarts, but I also had not let the car drain for 10 hours as some of my more anal pals might. Now, you can either re-insert and tighten the fill plug bolt to 30#'s, or leave it open as you check the level as described below - I just tightened it, and used the old washer, as this is not an area that is always immersed in oil, so a leak is unlikely. If you choose to leave it off until you finish checking the level, REMEMBER TO REPLACE AND TIGHTEN IT LATER!
11) Check the level - here is where having the car level pays off. Honda's procedure is to start the car and let it idle until the cooling fan cycles once (turn off the Air conditioning for this). Cut the engine. Then, check the level immediately. The dipstick is located forward of the fill opening, about the middle of the distance from the firewall to the radiator. It has a yellow plastic covering on it. Remove it, wipe it clean, and re-insert - it has a slot that aligns with a tap on the dipstick tube, so it can only go in and seat one way. Pay attention to this or you will "short stick" things. I found that I was right on the money - at the top of filled range. If you are closer to the lower of the two "dots", you can add a bit more ATF fluid through the dipstick with a small funnel and thin tube, or through the main fill opening. Once the level is correct, replace the fill plug and tighten snugly.
12) Remove the jack stands and lower the car.
13) Start the car, put the car in reverse and drive and reverse a few times, then drive off. Check for leaks - I could see and touch the drain plug by reaching through the splash shield now that I knew where it was.
14) If you find a leak at the drain plug, check the torque. Worst case (and very unlikely) would be if you re-used the crush washer, and it deformed. My procedure would be to drain the fluid into an immaculately clean drain pan, and keep it covered and in a safe spot until you have remedied the drain plug/washer, then pour all of it back in through the fill hole. If you suspect that any dirt has migrated into the pan of fluid, it is safer to add fresh fluid - again, dirt is murder on these very precise automatic trannies.
15) You are done!
Edit by Mod Ron A 22Jun2005: I am adding a scan of the ATF replacement info from the service manual, which also shows where the drain plug and filler plug are located, and also the scan that shows the correct method for checking the ATF level.
************************************************** ***********************
Here is a guide and some tips:
Equipment needed:
Safe jacking equipment and jack stands, 2 pairs preferred
17mm socket (3/8 - 1/2" size, 1/2" preferred) - a universal drive in either size is optional but recommended
extension for above, 8" -12"
Large torque wrench and/or breaker bar for socket
10 mm socket and ratchet wrench with 5" or greater extension
1 small flat blade screwdriver
1 oil fill extension (wide funnel with at least a 12" length to reach the filler opening)
1 Honda ATF drain plug gasket (optional)
3 quarts of Z1 spec ATF (Honda or equivalent - Amsoil Synthetic ATF is Z1 compliant per Amsoil Tech Services)
Drain pan and container for recycling old ATF (1 gallon)
Level - magnetic type optional
1 mechanics magnetic parts retriever or "fingers" type retriever (optional)
************************************************** ***********************
OK, here we go:
1) Warm the engine, or it can be done after the car has been off long enough for the exhaust to cool off so you do not get scorched. I have a big fan in my garage and it is AC'd.
2) Jack the car so you can easily get underneath the car to at least the midsection. Preferable to jack front and rear, and level the car using the level aligned to the frame rails. That way, you are sure to have the car positioned for a proper drain, and it makes refill easier (see below).
3) Position the jack stands and ensure stability of car.
4) Loosen the fill plug - it is a bit awkward to locate, and is on the driver side of the engine bay, and has "ATF? market on it - it will usually also have some color marking on it. It takes a 17mm socket, which I put on a 1/2" drive and universal on an 8" extension. Even with a hefty 1/2" ratchet, it was tight, so i had to "break" it with the large torque wrench - you could also use a breaker bar in the size drive you are using. Once broken, the fill plug unthreads easily. Come at the plug from the left bu snaking your arm under the hoses - you do not want this plug to fall in an inaccessible place, and the washer is unusually shaped as well. You can re-use the washer with no problem. If either the plug or the washer gets away from you, use a magnetic or finger retriever.
**** Cover the filler opening with a clean shop rag so no debris can get in ****
5) There is an under body aero/splash shield that needs to be swung out of the way - you do not need to remove it. Get the screwdriver and the 10mm socket/extension/ratchet. There are two threaded, long 10mm hex head bolts, one in the front, and one in the back. Remove the front one. The rear one is in a recessed spot - just loosen this one. The rest of the retainers (4 or 5) are the plastic clip types - there is a recess in the plastic head where the thin blade goes in, you pop up the retainer "pin", and then pull the whole thing out. Do this for all the others, and put them and the one 10mm bolt in a safe place.
6) Swing the splash shield to allow access to the drain bolt.
7) The drain bolt is accessed from the front of the car. If you imagine you are facing forward from the driver's seat, it will be on the "left" - under the car that means it will be left or right of your body. It is a golden bichromate color, and has a 1/2" square drive head - no other bolt in this area has that, so you should be able to locate it easily. Look for blue or perhaps a yellow or red marking on the bolt or on the tranny case near the bolt. This is used during assembly to indicate it has been tightened, and the tranny filled. Loosen this with the 1/2" drive - mine came loose without needing the breaker. Drain the tranny fluid. Examine the bolt and washer so you can see how the crush washer looks, and where the "roughened edge" is oriented. Let the tranny drain. While it is draining, you will note that the drain bolt has a magnet on its end, and it will have some fine metallic sludge on it (even at 1000 miles). This is normal wear material - it should be very fine, like graphite powder in in oil suspension. If you find chards of material, and the tranny has been acting odd, I would have either the dealer or a tranny shop examine it.
8) Once the tranny has started just to drip, wipe the area clean, and re-insert the plug and washer. I found the old washer to be in fine shape, and decided to re-use it, although I did have several new ones just in case. With Hondas, unless you have been somewhere where a gorilla overtightened a bolt, most Honda washers (crush type) can be re-used several times. It is up to you. Tighten to 36 fl/lbs. I just did it by feel - tightened it to snug, and then a bit more than that - do not over tighten!
9) Position the funnel/extension in the filler hole - MAKE SURE IT IS CLEAN! Dirt is anathema to a modern tranny, and even if you have to wash it, do so. Dry it as best you can, but a tiny bit of water left in the tube is OK. Dirt is not.
10) Add the 2 quarts - I was going to add half of the remaining 3rd quart, heat the car, recheck, refill, etc, but working over the hot engine and tranny is no fun in Virginia in August, so I figured "spec calls for 3 quarts - that's what I am adding". Since I had not extracted every last drop of any of the bottles, I was slightly below 3 quarts, but I also had not let the car drain for 10 hours as some of my more anal pals might. Now, you can either re-insert and tighten the fill plug bolt to 30#'s, or leave it open as you check the level as described below - I just tightened it, and used the old washer, as this is not an area that is always immersed in oil, so a leak is unlikely. If you choose to leave it off until you finish checking the level, REMEMBER TO REPLACE AND TIGHTEN IT LATER!
11) Check the level - here is where having the car level pays off. Honda's procedure is to start the car and let it idle until the cooling fan cycles once (turn off the Air conditioning for this). Cut the engine. Then, check the level immediately. The dipstick is located forward of the fill opening, about the middle of the distance from the firewall to the radiator. It has a yellow plastic covering on it. Remove it, wipe it clean, and re-insert - it has a slot that aligns with a tap on the dipstick tube, so it can only go in and seat one way. Pay attention to this or you will "short stick" things. I found that I was right on the money - at the top of filled range. If you are closer to the lower of the two "dots", you can add a bit more ATF fluid through the dipstick with a small funnel and thin tube, or through the main fill opening. Once the level is correct, replace the fill plug and tighten snugly.
12) Remove the jack stands and lower the car.
13) Start the car, put the car in reverse and drive and reverse a few times, then drive off. Check for leaks - I could see and touch the drain plug by reaching through the splash shield now that I knew where it was.
14) If you find a leak at the drain plug, check the torque. Worst case (and very unlikely) would be if you re-used the crush washer, and it deformed. My procedure would be to drain the fluid into an immaculately clean drain pan, and keep it covered and in a safe spot until you have remedied the drain plug/washer, then pour all of it back in through the fill hole. If you suspect that any dirt has migrated into the pan of fluid, it is safer to add fresh fluid - again, dirt is murder on these very precise automatic trannies.
15) You are done!
Edit by Mod Ron A 22Jun2005: I am adding a scan of the ATF replacement info from the service manual, which also shows where the drain plug and filler plug are located, and also the scan that shows the correct method for checking the ATF level.
My fluid looked like hershey syrup at 32,800. Lots of "sauce and ceese" on the drain plug.
Will definitely be doing this more often....
12-08-2007, 09:52 AM
#37
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Um ... sorry to resurrect this thread but I can't seem to find the drain plug based on the diagram above. Would someone care to post pics? I did find the fill plug though. 
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
12-08-2007, 10:49 AM
#38
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by McKulit
Um ... sorry to resurrect this thread but I can't seem to find the drain plug based on the diagram above. Would someone care to post pics? I did find the fill plug though.
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
You don't need to totally remove it. You can leave the rear bolt in and just swing it out of the way. It's not too difficult; just a little bother.
Then, put the shield back in place, replace the pins by just pushing on the center, and replace the bolts. Probably less than a minute on/off.
It is detailed by RoadRage thusly:
Originally Posted by RoadRage
5) There is an under body aero/splash shield that needs to be swung out of the way - you do not need to remove it. Get the screwdriver and the 10mm socket/extension/ratchet. There are two threaded, long 10mm hex head bolts, one in the front, and one in the back. Remove the front one. The rear one is in a recessed spot - just loosen this one. The rest of the retainers (4 or 5) are the plastic clip types - there is a recess in the plastic head where the thin blade goes in, you pop up the retainer "pin", and then pull the whole thing out. Do this for all the others, and put them and the one 10mm bolt in a safe place.
03-20-2008, 11:28 AM
#40
2006 Acura TL
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Originally Posted by Road Rage
Update: I've got 4000 miles on Amsoil ATF, the weather has turned cold, and the tranny shifts smoothly - it is hard to detect the shifts unless watching the tach.