When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Recently I had issue with my son's 2005 TL, which heat up and stopped on the road possibility because of leaked coolant. He added some coolant and wait for more than hour and the car started and he was able to drive it home. Next day I tool it to mechanic who told me the car's head casket is blown and need bigger repair which he can't do. So I drove it back to home, since I parked it on my driveway 2 weeks ago, the car doesn't even start. Talked to another mechanic who said it may not be head casket it could be motor being locked or something. But I have not got any mechanic who can give me some estimates on how much will it cost and who can actually repair it. Please help!!!
1. Well... do you know anything about cars? Not trying to be mean or anything, just can you open the hood and diagnose simple stuff?
Also, how far do you want to go with doing stuff yourself? Are you just looking for advice?
2. Right now when car doesn't start. Does it do anything? Are any lights on? Any clicks or sounds when turning the key, trying to start? Are lights getting very dim when trying to start? Did you try to jump start it? Describe. The possibilities are that battery just went flat as car was sitting for the long time, head gasket is bad and coolant leaked into cylinder, hydrolocking the engine, or some other reason.
3. How many miles, was car take care of (oil changes and other engine-related maintenance)
4. Did you/your son let the car overheat before stopping on the road, was there much smoke? Was transmission working all right?
5. How the coolant and other fluids (oil and transmission fluid) looks right now? Take the oil filler cap off and take the look at it, and inside the engine. What you see?
Thanks for reply...here is answer to your questions...
Originally Posted by peter6
1. Well... do you know anything about cars? Not trying to be mean or anything, just can you open the hood and diagnose simple stuff?
Also, how far do you want to go with doing stuff yourself? Are you just looking for advice?
I know basic things only, yes I can open the hood and diagnose simple stuff, attaching a picture of the car with hood open. I can upload more detail picture as needed.
Originally Posted by peter6
2. Right now when car doesn't start. Does it do anything? Are any lights on? Any clicks or sounds when turning the key, trying to start? Are lights getting very dim when trying to start? Did you try to jump start it? Describe. The possibilities are that battery just went flat as car was sitting for the long time, head gasket is bad and coolant leaked into cylinder, hydrolocking the engine, or some other reason.
Yes the car cracks fine, but doesn't start. yes the lights getting dim, but can't say of they get very dim. I do have the jumper cable and can try jump start it too, if needed.
Originally Posted by peter6
3. How many miles, was car take care of (oil changes and other engine-related maintenance)
Car has 89K miles and yes it was well taken care.
Originally Posted by peter6
4. Did you/your son let the car overheat before stopping on the road, was there much smoke? Was transmission working all right?
Per him he didn't see the heating gauge, but there was very little smoke if any.
Originally Posted by peter6
5. How the coolant and other fluids (oil and transmission fluid) looks right now? Take the oil filler cap off and take the look at it, and inside the engine. What you see?
Now the coolant is full again, we also tried putting Head Gasket sealer, but no help.
2. However, you will need engine to be running for most. Do you want to go ahead and try to get it started?
If it cranks but doesn't start, I would check first if it will start with starter fluid or carb cleaner (just spray some into intake and try to start engine).
3. Also, those "sealer" things are not usually working, and may even be harmful. Don't use them.
Big "no-no" on using any sealers. I would only use those on high mileage vehicles that need to get by. At 89K miles I wouldn't do it. I would fix the issue correctly. The car has a lot of life left!
I had to triple-check which forum I opened, I thought it was my subie forum for a second with the thread title "blown head gasket"
A big sign of a blown head gasket is "chocolate milk" oil, caused by coolant mixing with the oil and looking like a chocolate milkshake. So an easy test is to drain the oil and see if it looks normal, or like you'd like to drink it. Same applies to the coolant.
Sorry I was not able to reply because I was out of town... here is some diagnostics I have done as suggested by you all...
The battery has died now, because of I was able to hook it up with other car to crank the car. The radiator: you can see residue of sealer, which I added. BTW it didn't help or change anything. The car was not starting before adding the sealer. The oil looks dark, so may require change, which is correct because I have driven it around 4000 miles since the oil change. No milky substance on oil cap, no white residue either. Does it means no Head Casket blown?
So what else can I try?
Thanks in advance.
Here is a video I made last night trying to crank up the engine, which might give you some idea of what sound it makes etc...https://photos.app.goo.gl/9VABjcRAme3P7Vy59
It doesn't let me upload the video, so I am adding my Google photos link...
Clean those battery terminals and cables!! Once that is resolved, try another video. That starter is struggling which means voltage is quite low which generally makes lots of things not behave on these cars.
Fortunately your dipstick and oil cap look perfectly healthy so there's a good chance your head gaskets are fine. Since you need to do an oil change anyway, that'll tell you 100%.
Hopefully your son just ran a bit low on coolant and the engine wasn't in the red zone too long to do a lot of damage. The fact that he started the engine an hour and half afterwards is also a good sign.
Your battery def sounds weak. If you don't have a battery charger or multi-meter to check the voltage, jump the car with a known good battery/car for about 10-15 minutes, then see if you can fire up the engine.
Someone asked me to check if motor is moving... does anyone know how to check that?
There are two systems of the engine that turn, the crankshaft/pistons and the camshaft/valves. Testing to see if the crankshaft is moving is easy. Just check to see if the belts are moving while trying to start the engine. With the camshaft/valves, take off the oil cap and look inside with a flashlight. You'll see some components called rocker arms. They should be moving up and down when attempting to start the engine. If the belts are moving as well as the rocker arms, then the engine is turning.
Assuming the starter is getting enough voltage, does it sound to anyone like there could be significant resistance from the engine? If the engine overheated too badly, some warping may be causing significant resistance on some part of the motor that's causing the starter to struggle. I hope for your sake that isn't the case.
I'd definitely try charging the battery really well then trying again. Like Jackass said, low voltage on the TL causes all sorts of weird things to happen. Charge the battery for several hours AND hook up some jumper cables to another car's battery just for good measure. That way you'll know you have a solid 12.6V or so with plenty of amps to start the car. If you're experiencing the same thing, something else is wrong.
It might be beyond your skill level, but if you have a 1/2" ratchet or breaker bar along with a long extension, you can fit a 19mm socket on the crankshaft pulley and see if you can rotate it. Only rotate it clockwise. It shouldn't be easy, since you're working against compression with some cylinders having both intake and exhaust valves closed, meaning you're having to fight against air compression. But it shouldn't be super hard either. If it is super difficult to turn, I'd suspect there's some internal resistance due to significant engine damage.
Headgasket sealer, hell nah. Dump that shit first.
I'm assuming you filled through the radiator, dump the radiator (plastic plug on bottom).
Only refill with Honda coolant (silicate and borate free).
Get a new battery.
Cranking over and over might have damaged your starter.
Be prepared to replace that at some point too.
If the car really overheated and stopped on him while driving, that's bad regardless of where the coolant is going.
If it were a headgasket, it could have potentially hydrolocked the engine or kept it from starting.
I'd remove the spark plugs and check the plugs for moisture or fouling.
I'd also have it scoped and check compression.
You'll get a finite answer after that.
Regarding the missing coolant, it's mostly a closed system.
You'll want to top off cold, res tank first then rad. Filling it cold, it'll expand and the reserve tank will go low.
It should return back to the max fill line where you topped off when the car cools.
How much coolant did you need to top off?
Thanks for all the reply, I did replace the battery finally and tried again, but nothing changed yet... so adding 2 more videos... https://photos.app.goo.gl/C1hPYKd3ep5SsvLG7
This is how it looks like from inside... https://photos.app.goo.gl/mBRh5D9dGywVBvZS9
Another one from outside, which shows the radiator cap open and shows how it's throwing the coolant out.
I don't have tools to open the spark plugs and I see 3 spark plugs are in the difficult position to replace. will get some tools to try those on...
Can someone pls help me understand few things...
1. Can we now say head casket is not blown for sure?
2. Since the car is not starting and I don't have tools/skill to fix or start it, I was thinking of towing the car to a mechenic's shop. Can someone pls let me know what kind of repair shop should I find. Can anyone recommend a mechanic or repair shop in central Virginia?
Not starting > Air, Fuel, Compression, Spark
The engine is probably turning, otherwise your starter would stall.
Also, the rad cap off with coolant spurting is from the water pump being turned to cycle coolant, which is related to the crankshaft turning from the bump by the starter.
Compression - the engine is turning, that's good. But that doesn't mean you have appropriate compression.
Spark - need to check the spark plugs
Air - remove the intake and check if the butterfly valve is opening up.
Fuel - you can smell for fuel fumes escaping past the throttle body, or you can spray some injector cleaner or carb spray in intake to see if it'll kick for a moment (DON'T BE OVERZEALOUS THOUGH)
That being said, to answer your first question if not clear... Nope.. refer to my previous post > need compression check and scope to rule out moisture and head gasket.
I'd just search for an independent honda mechanic that has fair prices and well reviewed.
Diagnosing the issue should be easy, fixing just depends on the problem.
You could also search for a mobile mechanic to just diagnose the issue (check compression, etc)
Then go from there.. tell them to give you an estimate to fix and tell them you'll get back to them after you think about it.
I'd just search for an independent honda mechanic that has fair prices and well reviewed.
Diagnosing the issue should be easy, fixing just depends on the problem.
You could also search for a mobile mechanic to just diagnose the issue (check compression, etc)
Then go from there.. tell them to give you an estimate to fix and tell them you'll get back to them after you think about it.
Yes I posted in mid-atlantic section before posting here, I got no response there. Since the car is not starting it would require tow to take it to any mechanic, I found few mechanics earlier with good reviews on Yelp and Google, but when i asked them if they fix Head Gasket they all said no. I got a mobile mechanic came and look at the car before I posted here, and that guy gave diagnostics of "Head Gasket Blown", but now when I am wiser, I understand he didn't even check all these things, he just heard the story how the car stopped by heating and came to conclusion. He never checked the oil cap etc.
Thanks for giving me some more hints on what i should be asking the mechanic to diagnose actual problem.
The vids showing the engine turning over means fortunately it isn't hydro-locked, which is very good.
Although I disagree with Majofo- coolant shooting out of the radiator like that isn't normal. The water pump circulates coolant at a relatively CONSTANT pressure, 14-18psi, depending on coolant temp and engine speed- that's not enough to cause coolant to shoot out like that. It shooting out like that is from sudden BURSTS of pressure (e.g. combustion pressure leaking into the cooling system, and I wonder what gasket is between the combustion and cooling system..........)
On a COLD engine, you should be able to leave the rad cap off, start the engine and nothing should shoot out.
The next logical troubleshooting tests should be a compression and/or leakdown, which is out of OP's ability but will definitively point to HG or not.
Although I disagree with Majofo- coolant shooting out of the radiator like that isn't normal. The water pump circulates coolant at a relatively CONSTANT pressure, 14-18psi, depending on coolant temp and engine speed- that's not enough to cause coolant to shoot out like that. It shooting out like that is from sudden BURSTS of pressure (e.g. combustion pressure leaking into the cooling system, and I wonder what gasket is between the combustion and cooling system..........)
On a COLD engine, you should be able to leave the rad cap off, start the engine and nothing should shoot out.
No bubbles, but that does seem like a reasonable explanation.
Yikes.
09-27-2018, 10:13 AM
