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The Optimal Percentage of Racing ATF

Old 09-30-2011, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by abracing View Post
I used redline racing atf and did 3x3 all at the same day with a little driving in between to move the fluids around. Its flaring so hard that even my wife who doesnt know anything about cars complained about it and even told me to trade in the car for the mdx because of how rough it is.
Just to make sure. When you say it flared, do you mean that the tachometer would suddenly jump upward by approximately 500 RPM immediately before shifting to the next gear (as shown in the video above)?

How was your transmission before using the Racing ATF?

I hope that I don't sound confrontational. I just want to collect the facts as accurately as possible. The forensics of this topic is important to the whole forum.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by turtlecivic View Post
Do most of you guys fill it with 3 quarts?.... my cousin filled mine up with 3.5 quarts.
It is common to not be able to get an accurate reading on the dip stick. It is common for people on the forum to use between 3 quarts and 3-1/2 quarts.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
Just to make sure. When you say it flared, do you mean that the tachometer would suddenly jump upward by approximately 500 RPM immediately before shifting to the ne gear (as shown in the video above)?

How was your transmission before using the Racing ATF?

I hope that I don't sound confrontational. I just want to collect the facts as accurately as possible. The forensics of this topic is important to the whole forum.
No, not confrontational at all. Yes its the same as with the video and would happen i believe at 2nd to 3rd gear. It would jump to 500 rpms first before shifting to 3rd gear.

I would say the transmission was ok before the atf change.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by abracing View Post
No, not confrontational at all. Yes its the same as with the video and would happen i believe at 2nd to 3rd gear. It would jump to 500 rpms first before shifting to 3rd gear.

I would say the transmission was ok before the atf change.

To all readers,

With these facts presented by abracing, this is another confirmed case of too much Racing ATF in my opinion.

Thank you for your patience and cooperation abracing
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:16 AM
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great post inaccurate

i am about to do the pressure switch change and from what i believe, the first ever transmission drain/refill (car is at 129,000)

So, assuming that there was never any tranny drain/refill, and wishing to go the optimal "type f" route, i do:

Refill #1 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
Refill #2 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart D4


correct? i am trying to aim for the best combination for future reliability of the transmission, while also getting crisp shifts.

thanks
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:54 AM
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also, how would a recommendation level be for 2 quarts of D4 and ONE quart of Type F racing?

i do not WOT it too much, maybe once every day or so...if i drive it "quick", i will take it sometimes up to 5k rpms
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:56 AM
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Inaccurate: So I just finished my 2x3 Racing ATF a month ago, would it be safer to go ahead and do my third refill with 2qts. Racing and 1qt. D4 or not even do my 3rd drain/refill and just drive "as is."
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Old 09-30-2011, 04:46 AM
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Originally Posted by abracing View Post
I used redline racing type f atf and did 3x3 all at the same day with a little driving in between to move the fluids around. Its flaring so hard that even my wife who doesnt know anything about cars complained about it and even told me to trade in the car for the mdx because of how rough it is.
do the drain and fill and let me know how it goes. my symptom was the same as yours.
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Old 09-30-2011, 05:22 AM
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Great thread! This is what my friend told me about Racing ATF, but I didn't understand anything he said. :x

He advised me to put 2 QTS Redline Racing ATF and 1 QT of D4 to balance the amount of FM/amount of Racing ATF.

I did this and 20k miles later, it still runs like the day I changed it!
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TLDude876 View Post
I am currenty running D4 all the way and will be doing a 1x3 with Racing ATF soon. That should strike a ppretty good balance.
I agree. This is a conservative route that will give you some (or most?) of the benefits. This would give you a 40% Racing mixture.

The shifting from a performance aspect would be quicker than just the D4. But please realize that you would not be getting the super quick, double-clutch like shifting.
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by TheChamp531 View Post
Great thread! This is what my friend told me about Racing ATF, but I didn't understand anything he said.

He advised me to put 2 QTS Redline Racing ATF and 1 QT of D4 to balance the amount of FM/amount of Racing ATF.

I did this and 20k miles later, it still runs like the day I changed it!
Hi Champ,

Just to clarify. Did you do only a single refill with 2 Racing + 1 D4? Or, did you do a 3x3 with 6 Racing and 3 D4?
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bbtri View Post
Since I got my TL I've done 2 changes with Castrol Multi-vehicle ATF (meets Honda spec), and one with the Redline type F racing. ..... I liked the firmer feel after adding the Redline, but I already decided future changes would be 1 quart of Redline with 2 quarts of synthetic ATF with FM. Call me a geezer, but any firmer and I call the shifts harsh. So for me the ideal mix is 33% racing ATF.
This is a great approach. A person can pick a custom percentage of Racing ATF (between 0% and 65% max) that matches their goals. It is a trade-off between harsh shifts versus clutch longevity.

According to your description, you have done the following?
Refill #1 = 3 quarts Castrol Multi-vehicle ATF
Refill #2 = 3 quarts Castrol Multi-vehicle ATF
Refill #3 = 3 quarts Redline Racing

If so, then you have a 40% Racing mixture.

For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), if you use 2 quarts synthetic ATF and 1 quart Racing ATF, then your Racing percentage would be gradually approaching 33% with each subsequent refill.
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Old 09-30-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by atrac7 View Post
assuming that there was never any tranny drain/refill, and wishing to go the optimal "type f" route, i do:

Refill #1 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
Refill #2 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart D4

correct? i am trying to aim for the best combination for future reliability of the transmission, while also getting crisp shifts.
This is correct. This should give you the ultimate shifting experience (aka, crisp shifts) while also giving you the ultimate clutch longevity.

Perhaps I should had titled this thread as "The Ultimate Racing ATF Percentage".
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:30 AM
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What To Do....

About 4 months ago I had transmission failure. It occurred around 108k miles and was a huge blow to a college guys wallet. My transmission went through a full rebuild (I have the list of parts rebuilt/new parts somewhere) at a tranny shop in Amarillo named FiveStarTransmissions. All was well the first few months but I've developed that 2-3 or 3-4 gear, hard shift again. I was getting that pretty frequently before my failure, on the order or every other time I made this shift basically (I have an auto). The transmission and their work carries a 1 year warranty and he said that if anything big or time consuming had to be fixed that it would have to be fixed at his shop....which sucks b/c I'm 3 1/2 hours away from there (loooong story). He stated that small things I could get fixed locally though and they'd pay.

Ok sorry for the rambling...but when I went to pick up the car I asked him what ATF they used and he said it was their rebuild type of ATF. Not really sure what that meant but I figured you might have to use a specific type of ATF on a fresh tranny. So my question is should I bring this issue up to the guy or is it just common with our transmissions? It's only 20-25% of the time now but I dont want to gradually get higher and higher when I'm out of the warranty. I figure changing the ATF might lose the warranty, but i'll call to check. Just figured I'd ask for advice here also
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Old 09-30-2011, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by atrac7 View Post
also, how would a recommendation level be for 2 quarts of D4 and ONE quart of Type F racing?

i do not WOT it too much, maybe once every day or so...if i drive it "quick", i will take it sometimes up to 5k rpms
Wow dude. You beat on your car more than I do. I think you need the 65% Racing mixture according to your driving style.

The 2 quarts of D4 and 1 quart of Type F would produce a 33% Racing mixture.

A 33% Racing mixture would be an extremely conservative route that will give you some of the benefits. The shifting from a performance aspect would be slightly quicker than just the D4 and the clutch wear would be slightly less than running just the D4.

On the other hand, the shifting experience and clutch longevity would be vastly superior to running the Z1.
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Old 09-30-2011, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by abracing View Post
I used redline racing type f atf and did 3x3 all at the same day with a little driving in between to move the fluids around. Its flaring so hard that even my wife who doesnt know anything about cars complained about it and even told me to trade in the car for the mdx because of how rough it is.
WOW....I have done a 4x3 with the type F and have seen any flaring....its been 5K miles since the 4x3 and 8K miles since the 1x3....

Originally Posted by turtlecivic View Post
I'm curious about something....sorry for asking a noobie question. Do most of you guys fill it with 3 quarts?.... my cousin filled mine up with 3.5 quarts. I'm using 2.5 quart of Type F and a quart of lightweight.
Actually only 2.7 qts should pop out...dont know how your cuz is extracting
3.5 qts....is he filling the tranny more than the max capacity ?
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
...
My Z1 was drained when my car had just 14,700 miles. The Z1 is long gone.

I had been running entirely Mobil 1 Fully Synthetic ATF from 14,700 miles to 54,500 miles.

At 54,500 miles, I switched to the Racing. The flaring started at 68,500 miles. ...
How many miles after 68,500 did you lower the percentage of Racing ATF?

I too had the flaring problem, running an 85% percentage of Racing and 15% of Z1, after approx. 3K miles. I had flaring in both the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts, plus a very hard 1-2 shift. My vehicle is an RDX.

After enduring the flaring for about 50 miles, I went to a current mix of:
1 quart Racing (already in the trans)
1 quart DW-1 (result of first drain/ fill) - stopped the flaring
6 quarts D4 (result of the next two drain/ fills)

---eof

Last edited by dcmodels; 10-01-2011 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 10-01-2011, 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by swoosh View Post
Actually only 2.7 qts should pop out...dont know how your cuz is extracting
3.5 qts....is he filling the tranny more than the max capacity ?
If you drain when the trans is hot, more fluid comes out. The fluid swells so there's more in the sump, and is thinner so it flows better too.

My wifes 04 Pilot had a lot come out, and it took about 3.5qts to refill to the line on the dip after the 3rd drain & fill.
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Old 10-01-2011, 02:25 AM
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I was planning on changing my tranny fluid within the next few weeks and already have racing and lightweight racing on hand. Should I use just the regular racing fluid and buy a qt of D4 for the 3rd change? Or can I still do a 2:1 regular racing to lightweight racing fluid ratio like I was planning to do? I have a 2nd gen btw.

TIA for any input and suggestions
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Old 10-01-2011, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by swoosh View Post
WOW....I have done a 4x3 with the type F and have seen any flaring....its been 5K miles since the 4x3 and 8K miles since the 1x3....



Actually only 2.7 qts should pop out...dont know how your cuz is extracting
3.5 qts....is he filling the tranny more than the max capacity ?
I thought 3.5 quarts is recommended. My cousin works at Honda and does all my maintance .
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Old 10-01-2011, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
Hi Champ,

Just to clarify. Did you do only a single refill with 2 Racing + 1 D4? Or, did you do a 3x3 with 6 Racing and 3 D4?
Yes, a full 3x3. Supposedly, it is the perfect blend.

So far I believe it.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:45 AM
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over time, i did the following drain/refills in order

2x3 D4 ATF
2x3 Racing ATF
1x3 Lightweight Racing ATF
1 quart lightweight, 2 quart racing

what would you recommend for my next change?
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by 94eg! View Post
If you drain when the trans is hot, more fluid comes out. The fluid swells so there's more in the sump, and is thinner so it flows better too.

My wifes 04 Pilot had a lot come out, and it took about 3.5qts to refill to the line on the dip after the 3rd drain & fill.
Originally Posted by turtlecivic View Post
I thought 3.5 quarts is recommended. My cousin works at Honda and does all my maintance .
Both of you are true....but I have never had 3.5 qts come out....always 2.7 to 3-ish....how do I know ? I put the old fluid from the drain pan to the bottles and I usually end up filling the 3 bottles I filled in the tranny
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
However for you forced induction people, this does not mean that the 65% Racing mixture has more holding power than the 92% Racing mixture. I still think that a higher percentage of Racing ATF would have a higher torque holding capability.
That was my belief too. 100% amsoil supershift type F for me

Before my car was taken off the road for the motor swap I had done 6 or 7 drain and fills with amsoil type F. The last drain/fill was roughly 10,000 miles ago (same time as the turbo install). I noticed no flaring.

When the trans is pulled and bolted to the new motor I have 10 quarts amsoil type F waiting to go in (I need the extra 1.5 quarts for the trans cooler)

I cant say that I ever noticed a difference between the 2nd drain/fill vs the 6th. But maybe it was so long ago I cant remember

Ill continue to use type F only unless I notice flaring.

Good work Inaccurate
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:00 PM
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I already completed the 3x3 Racing ATF a little over a year ago. I do notice the car lunging and shifting kinda harshly during stop and go driving. I would like the shifts to be a bit more comfortable and am thinking of of doing a 1x3 w/ just Redline D4 ATF instead of 2 quarts of Racing and 1 quart of D4.

Also pondering of maybe using 1x3 w/ DW-1 but may just stick w/ the Redline products since the fluid is of better quality.

Advisable?
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:10 PM
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^^^ I would just go with the D4....

I did a 4x3 with Redline Type F and I do feel my tranny shifting very well....I would not want to change a thing about it....next flush is 60K miles down or 55K since I have been driving around for 5K since the 4x3 and 8K since 1x3.

After 60K miles, I might do a 4x3 using 9qts of Type F and 3 qts of D4....
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:25 PM
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Hmm, I did a 3x3 with all Type F over 13k miles ago. I'll try out a D4/Type F mix when I hit 15k.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:30 PM
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^^^ if you dont notice flaring why are you doing another drain and refill ? I think you should be good for the 50-60K miles interval....
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:40 PM
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I was planning to do one with all Type F anyway.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:45 PM
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^^^ try Type F itself....I have done a 4x3 with type F and am fine since 5K miles....

If you want to go very safe:
Refill #4 = 2 quarts D4 + 1 quart Racing

If you want to go a little aggressive:
Refill #4 = 1 quarts D4 + 2 quart Racing
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:47 PM
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Hey guys, I'm unsure of which method to go with. I have already done 4x3 refills of pure redline racing type f. I've been driving with it for about 5k miles already. The only think I don't like is the 1-2 shift like majority of the people on here, it's harsh.

I've already replaced the switches thinking it could help but it did not. So I don't know what to do next for my 5th refill. Inaccurate's suggestion of 2 qts of d4 and 1 qt of racing sounds great and I don't mind trying it lol. I'm thinking to do that method or maybe 2 qts of d4 and 1 quart of lightweight figuring I'll be dropping from 87 to 65 percent anyway and make viscosity thinner? What do you guys think and suggest? That or just add 3 qts of d4 but Im not sure what my percentage would drop to by doing that.
Suggestions?
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Da Answer View Post
Hey guys, I'm unsure of which method to go with. I have already done 4x3 refills of pure redline racing type f. I've been driving with it for about 5k miles already. The only think I don't like is the 1-2 shift like majority of the people on here, it's harsh.

I've already replaced the switches thinking it could help but it did not. So I don't know what to do next for my 5th refill. Inaccurate's suggestion of 2 qts of d4 and 1 qt of racing sounds great and I don't mind trying it lol. I'm thinking to do that method or maybe 2 qts of d4 and 1 quart of lightweight figuring I'll be dropping from 87 to 65 percent anyway and make viscosity thinner? What do you guys think and suggest? That or just add 3 qts of d4 but Im not sure what my percentage would drop to by doing that.
Suggestions?
I would just do 2 D4 + 1 Type F.
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Old 10-02-2011, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Da Answer View Post
Hey guys, I'm unsure of which method to go with. I have already done 4x3 refills of pure redline racing type f. I've been driving with it for about 5k miles already. The only think I don't like is the 1-2 shift like majority of the people on here, it's harsh.

I've already replaced the switches thinking it could help but it did not. So I don't know what to do next for my 5th refill. Inaccurate's suggestion of 2 qts of d4 and 1 qt of racing sounds great and I don't mind trying it lol. I'm thinking to do that method or maybe 2 qts of d4 and 1 quart of lightweight figuring I'll be dropping from 87 to 65 percent anyway and make viscosity thinner? What do you guys think and suggest? That or just add 3 qts of d4 but Im not sure what my percentage would drop to by doing that.
Suggestions?
Redline gives quicker and hence harsher shifts....I would leave it as is....

do you notice and flaring ? if you dont then you should be good to go....if you do then I would suggest doing the drain and refill#5....

I have been running 4x3 type F since 5K miles without any problems and I love the shifts....they are snappy....yes the 1-2 shift is harsher than the rest, but its only when the tranny is cold....otherwise I think its fine....
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:40 PM
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Swoosh and to all readers,

Swoosh, although you have a 87% Racing mixture and no shifting issues, I feel that it is irresponsible to suggest to others that they should run greater than a 65% Racing mixture.

Many Acurazine members have had their transmissions replaced due to the Racing ATF. However, it was not the Racing ATF itself that caused the transmissions to be replaced. It was because we (the forum as a whole) was unaware that too little FM would cause issues. Now that we know, I do not want to see the Racing ATF to get anymore of a "black eye" from people suggesting anything greater than a 65% Racing mixture.

As I stated in my opening post of this thread, going beyond a 65% Racing mixture offers *no advantages* (except for forced induction applications) and many disadvantages.

To all readers, I advice that you follow my recommendations in my opening post. If you have questions about how to obtain a 65% Racing mixture, please ask and I will help you.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by dcmodels View Post
How many miles after 68,500 did you lower the percentage of Racing ATF?

After realizing that I had flaring, it was 1,000 miles later until I had the flaring resolved by lower the Racing percentage.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by clue036 View Post
I was planning on changing my tranny fluid within the next few weeks and already have racing and lightweight racing on hand. Should I use just the regular racing fluid and buy a qt of D4 for the 3rd change? Or can I still do a 2:1 regular racing to lightweight racing fluid ratio like I was planning to do? I have a 2nd gen btw.
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time AND WANT A NORMAL VISCOSITY

Refill #1 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #3 = 1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF


The above will produce a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity.

For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use

1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF

This will maintain a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity indefinitely.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wilzrsx View Post
over time, i did the following drain/refills in order

2x3 D4 ATF
2x3 Racing ATF
1x3 Lightweight Racing ATF
1 quart lightweight, 2 quart racing

what would you recommend for my next change?

You are currently at a 87% Racing mixture.

Please do a single refill (1x3) as shown below. This will also maintain the same overall viscosity that you were aiming for originally with the Lightweight.

Refill = 2 quarts D4 + 1 quart Racing

This will produce a 65% Racing mixture.

For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use

1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF

This will indefinitely maintain a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by anonymous

Thank you for clearing up my issue that I was having a while back.

I did a 4x3 with Redline Type F. After about 6k miles, I noticed my 2nd to 3rd shifts slipping or what I thought at the time. Anyways, Acura good willed a replacement trans and got me on my way. I have been hesitant about going with Type F again but after reading this I will do a couple drain and fill with Type F.
To all readers,

Today, I received the message above (see quote above) via a PM. In my opinion, this is another confirmed case of someone that had their transmission replaced due to having too much Racing ATF.

And, kudos to this person for still having faith in the Racing ATF.
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time AND WANT A NORMAL VISCOSITY

Refill #1 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #3 = 1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF


The above will produce a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity.

For any subsequent refills (If you choose to do any additional refills in the future), you should use

1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF

This will maintain a 65% Racing mixture with normal viscosity indefinitely.
Can you outline if possible what is the difference between what I quoted regarding "Normal Viscosity" VERSUS the ORIGINAL post in this thread? What viscosity type stems from the first post? And which is optimal. Sorry for all the questions, just hoping to get a more clear grasp on the effects of these terms

Pretty much, what is the difference between this post vs the first post that stated that the first refill should be

All Redline Type F

All Redline Type F

2 Redline Type F, 1 D4.

Once again, all this is applying to first time use of Redline Type F (or, potentially first drain and refill at all)
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Old 10-02-2011, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Inaccurate View Post
Swoosh and to all readers,

Swoosh, although you have a 87% Racing mixture and no shifting issues, I feel that it is irresponsible to suggest to others that they should run greater than a 65% Racing mixture.

Many Acurazine members have had their transmissions replaced due to the Racing ATF. However, it was not the Racing ATF itself that caused the transmissions to be replaced. It was because we (the forum as a whole) was unaware that too little FM would cause issues. Now that we know, I do not want to see the Racing ATF to get anymore of a "black eye" from people suggesting anything greater than a 65% Racing mixture.

As I stated in my opening post of this thread, going beyond a 65% Racing mixture offers *no advantages* (except for forced induction applications) and many disadvantages.

To all readers, I advice that you follow my recommendations in my opening post. If you have questions about how to obtain a 65% Racing mixture, please ask and I will help you.
Dont get me wrong Inaccurate but:
1> how did you get to the 65% figure ?
2> you already had some fluid in the tranny which had less FM's so when you switched from that fluid to Type-F you had really low amount of FM's....

Am not asking anyone to keep pouring Type F in there until their tranny takes a dump.....am just saying people who have done 4x3 and had Z1 or DW1 in their tranny's before they switched to Type F to just keep it in before they feel any flaring and if they do experience that, switch/drain and refill with D4 or some like that....

a lot of people do listen to you and they should....you do extensive research....and am not pointing a finger at you....but how did we get to the 65% golden number....why not 70% or 75% or 50%....thats my question....
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