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The Optimal Percentage of Racing ATF

 
Old 03-28-2018, 02:42 PM
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I would would say the optimal percentage would be exactly zero.
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Old 03-28-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by losiglow View Post
That's why I use it. Because, well, racecar

My 3G was a 6MT but I use some redline ATF in my 4G 6AT and love it. Redline recommends D6 for the 4G. I use about 2:1:1 mixture of DW1, D6 and a 50/50 of LW racing and regular racing. So half is still DW1 but the other half is a combo of redline and redline racing. I didn't want to go too aggressive with it since there hasn't been as much experimentation done on the 4G as compared to the 3G. It's improved the "grab" of the clutches which is a welcome change. I've been using it for about 30K now and so far it's been great. With the quick locking TC the 4G AT has, I'll be sticking with the ratio I've got. I don't see any reason to increase it more.

You're going to be hard pressed to find anyone who's transmission died from using redline vs. DW-1 as long as they kept a reasonable ratio. If they used too much racing ATF it can cause problems - which has been discussed in the thread. The transmission still needs some friction modifiers.
just bugging. If it works then by all means....
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Old 03-30-2018, 05:25 PM
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I have read through this thread in its entirety as I myself have recently switched my ATF in my '08 Type S to Racing/D4. It has been recommended by others to use D4. No experience with D6. True to this thread, it is a very fine line between just enough and too much Racing fluid. I dabbled with the Lightweight Racing fluid but have since deleted it, as shifts were negatively effected. Currently running a 2:1 Racing to D4. Huge improvement over stock and perfect for people looking to maximize performance and and minimize trans wear.
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Old 08-28-2018, 12:55 PM
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For people up north (Canada) Just wondering what people are recommending:

For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time

Refill #1 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
Refill #2 = 3 quarts Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart D4
or

For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time AND WANT A NORMAL VISCOSITY

Refill #1 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 quarts Racing ATF + 1 quart Lightweight ATF
Refill #3 = 1 quart D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
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Old 08-28-2018, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mdnborg View Post
I have read through this thread in its entirety as I myself have recently switched my ATF in my '08 Type S to Racing/D4. It has been recommended by others to use D4. No experience with D6. True to this thread, it is a very fine line between just enough and too much Racing fluid. I dabbled with the Lightweight Racing fluid but have since deleted it, as shifts were negatively effected. Currently running a 2:1 Racing to D4. Huge improvement over stock and perfect for people looking to maximize performance and and minimize trans wear.
Can you provide details for each flush?
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Old 08-31-2018, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by devastata View Post
Can you provide details for each flush?
Seems 65% D4/D6 and 35% racing works the best at least it has in my 06 for the past 3 years. I do a 1X3 flush every oil change with 2 D6 and 1 racing,
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Old 11-29-2018, 04:08 AM
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This thread has a wealth of info and I've enjoyed reading through everything but the time has come to go ahead and post my question for opinions.

I recently bought a 2007 TL Type S (Auto) with 100k miles. I do not know the history of transmission fluid changes and carfax doesn't have specific info regarding tranny fluid. So I'm left assuming and I don't like assuming so unfortunately that word will be used a lot. The fluid is bright red so I'm assuming it's not terribly old.
​​​​​​
I'm going to assume Honda fluid was used for the changes and I'll be switching to the Redline combo for the first time. My main objective is prolonging the life of the tranny as long as possible. I don't rag my car out and I only put about 50 miles a week on it. I plan on doing the 65% method of this For anyone that is beginning to use Racing ATF for the first time

Refill #1 = 2 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF
Refill #2 = 2 qt Lightweight ATF + 1 qt Racing ATF
Refill #3 = 1 qt D4 + 1 qt Racing ATF + 1 qt Lightweight ATF


Being that I'm at 100k and I'm unsure of when and what type of fluid was used, is the above method and percentage still the best bet for me to keep my tranny healthy and prolong its life as long as possible?

Also regarding pressure switches. This is something else that I'm unsure of in regards to if they've been changed or not. Is this something I should look at replacing? I'm not having any issues currently with shifting. Also I've never had a car with paddle shifters so I don't know exactly how quick they should shift but whenever I up shift with the paddle shifter, it's not immediate. There's a slight delay of maybe a second and a half to 2 seconds to shift after I click the paddle. This could totally be normal but like I said I haven't driven another car to compare so I don't know.

Once again thanks to everyone that provided their knowledge and input to this thread. It's been very helpful.


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Old 11-29-2018, 08:39 AM
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Fuzzy13 Use Honda/Acura DW-1 and nothing else.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:47 AM
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It's not abnormal to have a 1-2 second delay when using paddle shifters. Don't worry too much about that. AT manufacturers have attempted to reduce the lag over time but it's just the nature of AT's. One more reason I want my next car to have a MT again

My 3G was manual but my 4G is automatic. They're different animals but I found the racing fluid resulted in a more pronounced shift, a little harsher than the OEM DW-1. It's already a somewhat rough-shifting transmission so I decided against continuing to use it for future flushes. Contrary to horseshoez, I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. There's no proof of increased wear or failure rates when using it. However, DW-1 is certainly good stuff and obviously the recommended fluid for your AT.

If you're interested in using it, give it a go. But I think I'd only do the Refill #1 at the beginning and see how it behaves after that. Rather then spending the $$$ on all three flushes right away. If you're happy with it, and the transmission is functioning well, then go ahead with #2 and eventually #3. Keep in mind, although there aren't any reported failures (that I'm aware of on this board....) when using Redline fluid, there also isn't a lot of long-term data. In other words, if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, there's no guarantee that the Redline stuff is somehow superior to DW-1 in terms of reliability. There's no doubt it's high quality stuff but the "harsher" shifts might potentially be harder on some of the mechanics of the transmission. Theoretically it reduces clutch wear due to a quicker grab but there's other factors to consider when it comes to stress on the drivetrain.
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:03 AM
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The thing about DW-1 is there is a HUGE body of scientific proof it is the correct ATF for relatively late model Honda/Acura transmissions; for all other ATF formulations there is virtually zero scientific evidence, instead we have a lot of anecdotal evidence which, while some may find compelling, has no scientific weight. If any given individual wants to be a guinea pig with a several thousand dollar transmission, there is nothing anybody on the internet can say except, be forewarned, unless it says DW-1 on the bottle, the Honda engineers have not approved that ATF for your transmission.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by losiglow View Post
It's not abnormal to have a 1-2 second delay when using paddle shifters. Don't worry too much about that. AT manufacturers have attempted to reduce the lag over time but it's just the nature of AT's. One more reason I want my next car to have a MT again

My 3G was manual but my 4G is automatic. They're different animals but I found the racing fluid resulted in a more pronounced shift, a little harsher than the OEM DW-1. It's already a somewhat rough-shifting transmission so I decided against continuing to use it for future flushes. Contrary to horseshoez, I don't think that there's anything wrong with it. There's no proof of increased wear or failure rates when using it. However, DW-1 is certainly good stuff and obviously the recommended fluid for your AT.

If you're interested in using it, give it a go. But I think I'd only do the Refill #1 at the beginning and see how it behaves after that. Rather then spending the $$$ on all three flushes right away. If you're happy with it, and the transmission is functioning well, then go ahead with #2 and eventually #3. Keep in mind, although there aren't any reported failures (that I'm aware of on this board....) when using Redline fluid, there also isn't a lot of long-term data. In other words, if you plan on keeping the car for a long time, there's no guarantee that the Redline stuff is somehow superior to DW-1 in terms of reliability. There's no doubt it's high quality stuff but the "harsher" shifts might potentially be harder on some of the mechanics of the transmission. Theoretically it reduces clutch wear due to a quicker grab but there's other factors to consider when it comes to stress on the drivetrain.
Thanks for the info. I didn't think the lag was abnormal but I just wanted to make sure.

I'll go with DW-1 then. Being that I'm not sure what's currently in there should I do just 1x3 or go ahead and do 3x3?

What about pressure switches? Should I bother replacing them or just leave them be?

Thanks again for all the info.
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Old 11-29-2018, 10:47 PM
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Given you don't know the history of the ATF, I would go with the 3x3 as well as the third and fourth gear pressure switches.
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Old 11-30-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
Given you don't know the history of the ATF, I would go with the 3x3 as well as the third and fourth gear pressure switches.
Thanks for the info dude.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:27 AM
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If you do end up following inAccurate's formula, omit the formula that includes lightweight racing fluid and stick only to 2:1 ratio of Redline Racing ATF (Type F) and Redline's D4 fluid. I know of many boosted auto owners who run this 2:1 ratio; one in particular has used it for approx 3 years now with no adverse effects at power levels in excess of 436whp. Regular changing of pressure sensors every 40k, and doing a 2:1 ratio 1x3 every other oil change.

EDIT:

Also, try to introduce the new fluid to your trans slowly. When I say that I mean, do a 1x3 with your new brew; drive the car for a thousand miles or so, then follow up with the second 1x3. Put another thousand on it and after round it out with the third 1x3. I'm no expert but from what I've heard this will minimize the risk of tranny failure, as opposed to dumping the full 12ish qts of new fluid into the tranny. Too much too quick can kill an older trans, especially if maintenance hasn't been kept up. Then after follow the guidelines above

Last edited by mdnborg; 11-30-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 11-30-2018, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by mdnborg View Post
If you do end up following inAccurate's formula, omit the formula that includes lightweight racing fluid and stick only to 2:1 ratio of Redline Racing ATF (Type F) and Redline's D4 fluid. I know of many boosted auto owners who run this 2:1 ratio; one in particular has used it for approx 3 years now with no adverse effects at power levels in excess of 436whp. Regular changing of pressure sensors every 40k, and doing a 2:1 ratio 1x3 every other oil change.

EDIT:

Also, try to introduce the new fluid to your trans slowly. When I say that I mean, do a 1x3 with your new brew; drive the car for a thousand miles or so, then follow up with the second 1x3. Put another thousand on it and after round it out with the third 1x3. I'm no expert but from what I've heard this will minimize the risk of tranny failure, as opposed to dumping the full 12ish qts of new fluid into the tranny. Too much too quick can kill an older trans, especially if maintenance hasn't been kept up. Then after follow the guidelines above
Thanks for the info. Went by Honda today and got the switches and 9qts of fluid.

So you're saying to do a 1x3 in intervals of 1k miles? I drive like 50 miles a week at most so I guess it'll take me a while. Maintenance was kept up and the car was taken car of I just don't know exactly the tranny maintenance info. Carfax doesn't say anything specifically about tranny fluid and the dealer I bought from said he didn't change it. But it's at 100k and I'm sure it's been changed somewhat recently because of how red it is. But who knows.
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Old 01-07-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mdnborg View Post
...I dabbled with the Lightweight Racing fluid but have since deleted it, as shifts were negatively effected. Currently running a 2:1 Racing to D4. ...
What ratio of fluids were you using (Lightweight:Racing: D4: D6)?

I previously had a bad experience with 2:1 Lightweight to D6, with shudder on 2-3 shifts under ultra light throttle, and later shudder on 4-5 shifts and 4-1 (described in more detail on page 14 and 15). My remedy was a flood of Castrol Multi-Vehicle Import, which resolved the issues for the last 3-4 years, however shifts are nowhere near as good as back I was running 65% Type F. I had amazing mileage on LW/D6 with 29-32 MPG on 90% highway and with 26 MPG in heavy highway traffic, but now I'm lucky to hit 24 MPG (75% highway).

I'm looking into trying Type F again, but want to avoid the shudder issue from ultra low viscosity (5.40 on LW/D6 2:1; DW1 is 6.83, Castrol Import is 8.00) while improving my current mileage (likely also dependent on viscosity).

I'm thinking of doing Lightweight:Racing: D4 in either a 4:4:4 ratio (viscosity 7.47), 6:2:4 ratio (viscosity 6.62), 7:1:4 ratio (viscosity 6.20), or 8:0:4 ratio (viscosity 5.77). I'm leaning towards 7:1:4 or 8:0:4 ratios in an attempt to keep both 100C and 0C viscosity as low as possible, while avoiding the shudder issues from too low of a viscosity. Especially since all Redline fluids have high 0C viscosity compared to Z1 and especially DW1.

Does anyone have any long term experience with Lightweight: D4 in a 2:1 ratio?


ATF Viscosity Table

Last edited by krutou; 01-07-2019 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:09 AM
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krutou, you appear to be focusing exclusively on viscosity as a differentiating factor between ATF formulations; the thing is, while important, viscosity is only one of several metrics, and not the most important one. The number one factor in choosing the correct ATF for any given automatic transmission is the Coefficient of Friction (CoF), then the quality of the base oil, and down the list is viscosity. If you can find an ATF with the correct CoF and a high quality base oil, then the viscosity is kind of irrelevant.
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:55 AM
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Ive used all type F, and have worked my way down to 1/3 F, 2/3 D4. Iíve had the best results going straight D4 or throwing in the type F for the last quart (usually not the whole bottle). If you talk to Redline, they do not recommend D6 for our cars, they recommend D4.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:05 AM
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I think you missed the point.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by horseshoez View Post
krutou, you appear to be focusing exclusively on viscosity as a differentiating factor between ATF formulations; the thing is, while important, viscosity is only one of several metrics, and not the most important one. The number one factor in choosing the correct ATF for any given automatic transmission is the Coefficient of Friction (CoF), then the quality of the base oil, and down the list is viscosity. If you can find an ATF with the correct CoF and a high quality base oil, then the viscosity is kind of irrelevant.
Any idea where to look up CoF for various ATF?

Based on my experience and what I've read from this thread, it seems like the Lightweight Type F formulation doesn't work well with the TL 3g.

Last edited by krutou; 01-08-2019 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by krutou View Post
Any idea where to look up CoF for various ATF?

Based on my experience and what I've read from this thread, it seems like the Lightweight Type F formulation doesn't work well with the TL 3g.
That's kind of the issue; most manufacturers do not publish the properties of their branded ATF. In this case, go with the OEM fluid (or subsequent replacement fluid such as DW-1) for best results; doing anything else is like trying to second guess the transmission designers.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:37 PM
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Honda/Acura also spec'ed that awful Z-1 ATF too...

I was running a mix of D4 and DW-1 in my car, seems to be a good compromise between shift kit harshness and OEM excessive smoothness. Unfortunately the shop that rebuild my automatic didn't check the lines when they added a cooler and in less than 60k miles the rebuild was toast.

I had a different shop rebuild it and add the TransLab shift kit and he used a relatively cheap ATF with the LubeGard Honda additive. Said I could pretty much use anything I wanted, even Ford Type F but that would make shifts excessively harsh. D4 or DW-1 would be perfectly fine. First drain and fill was with DW-1, next one will be D4.
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