SodaLuvr

Special thanks to Pat Murray of Butler Labs for analyzing this oil, Johnny of Pennzoil for donating the oil, and Terry Dyson of Dyson Analysis for his excellent intepretation and comments!

This difference between this oil and the other syns on the market today is its new EOP technology, which is different than the other oils on the market. I'm attempting to seek more knowledge about this technology so that I can explain to you folks in more detail.

In addition, Pennzoil recently introduced a new 0w-20 synthetic specially made for hybrids for increased fuel efficiency, and I think that this oil would work well in a TL application because of the better flow of a 0w-20 and increased fuel efficiency. In addition, I'm hoping that this oil will be more stable viscosity wise and more immune to shearing due to fuel dilution as this seems to be a common problem with hybrids.

Lets just hope that the 0w-20 will not be a relabeled 5w-20, as the PDS has not come out yet.

Michael

nfnsquared

Different, yes.

Better, ?????

Not as good, ??????

caball88

hmmmm good info posted but am i the only one who doesn't understand jack about what that chart says. i've seen previous posts of oil analysis charts before and you could just about put any number in the columns and it would be the same to me. sorry for being such a noob when it comes to chemical analysis of oils. maybe someone can shed some light on what that chart means.

Thorin78

I'd like to see a long term analysis of the oil in intervals of 5000 miles or so to see if any of the measurements decrease and the rate at which it does. And also comparisons with Mobile 1 and Amsoil and such.

good post, interesting topic to visit again

mason1125

Pepboy is selling the PZ Platinum for $4.99. When you buy a case you will get a coupon for mail-in rebate of $15 mastercard. So it's like buy 3 and get 3 free. For that price it's definitely worth trying.

SodaLuvr

nfnsquared,
EOP is supposedly at least just as good as the current GrpIV oils if not better, but is less expensive to produce.

A little correction, Platinum 0w-20 is coming out in August, it isn't avaliable yet.

I'll explain more about the chart later when I get more time.

Michael

SodaLuvr

Any increase or decrease of the measurements will probably be at most a few ppm, which isn't significant enough to make a difference in most cases.

In order to accurately test any oil in a car, the engine must be well broken-in as the wear metals will almost always decrease as the engine accumulates more miles.

Michael

Thorin78

Michael

I would agree with you, however if the ppm decreases faster than M1 or another oil over time and gets below the other oils then it may not be as worthy.

Road Rage

I do not see anything special about that formulation.

Regarding the EOP - what claims do they make for it being "better"?

There is no TBN indicated either.

SodaLuvr

Please elaborate...I'm not sure if I understand what you mean.

Thanks,
Michael

SodaLuvr

caball88,
Here's an explanation:

Mo, Friction Modifier
P, Anti-Wear
Zn, Anti-Wear
Mg, Detergent
Ca, Detergent and increases TBN.
Sb, See Zinc.

Hope this helps,
Michael

SodaLuvr

RR,
No test for TBN was performed since it costs $5 per test strip to test for TBN using the Dexil method.

I estimate that the TBN should be between 8-10 on the D-4739 method.

Michael

SodaLuvr

In terms of better, they are moving away from the infamous ZDDP and starting to seek alternative methods of substituting those additives by using Antimony. See the Quaker State 4X4 Blend VOA that I recently posted.

As for the EOP, I'm still researching that. But for one thing, the usage of EOP may lower oil prices since it costs roughly $0.50/quart less to produce while yielding the same results, but then again, the manufacturer may just profit more since they won't lower the prices.

Michael

Road Rage

I see. But before I would endorse this product, I would want to see some UOA's. Pennzoil's previous synoils were only ho-hum. And having been around a long time, I have seen many miracle formulations fall flat on their faces.

Examples?

1) ARCO Graphite. You don't want to know. I still have a can somewhere - I may sell it on eBay someday. This testament to marketing hype gone horribly wrong made a splash, was heavily promoted, and died the death it deserved in its infancy. I cannot negin to tell you how retarded this product's concept was.

2) 10w40. When the first multi-vis 10w40 appeared, it was heralded in all the usual "hype" spots: Popular Mechanics, all the local newspaper "Ask Fred the Mechanic" columns, the usual miscreants and woefully untutored experts (My current favs are those "2 Guys Garage" nitwits - just because they can change brake pads, they are experts in areas for which they have no formal training or expertise - such as "all gas is the same").

Even GM jumped on the bandwagon, recommending 10w40 as factory approved.

Then the engines started failing in cold climates. Those Viscosity Improvers (VI's in the trade, made of long chain polymers)* just were not entirely sorted out and stable, and the major oil producers QC was inadequate. 10w40 was closer to 30w40, and in Wisconsin in February, even 20w20 was barely able to flow.

I doubt there will be any price advantage - when Castrol cheapened down everything with their GIII Syntec, they undercut the competition at around $3, selling base stocks that Havoline provides for half the price. That did what - forced many of the others to use the same cheaper base stocks.

Then what happened? Right - the price crept up for all comers. That is why in part, this synoil zealot has become more of a "prove it and bring it" curmudgeon. The UOA's are just not that convincing to me, esp since I can change the oil 2-3 times as often for the same price.

8-10 TBN is marginally good. Hell, LE 8130 comes in around 12, depending on the test protocol used.

PZ Platinum may be the next Big Thing - but frankly, I will want to see how experiments in other people's cars come out before I endorse it. That's just experience and wisdom (old age?) coming to the surface.

Keep that info coming Michael - I for one enjoy you carrying the torch.

*Road Rage's trivia of the day contest:

Q. What does oil and your fan belt have in common?

A. Those polymers! Ever wonder why a squeaking fan belt stops when the car warms up a bit? - shouldn't it squeal more, as it loosens up due to the thermal expansion? But wait - Yes! Those same polymers that thicken to help the oil resist thinning excessively at high temps are blended in the rubber used for belts - they actually tighten a bit as they warm up.

SodaLuvr

Have it running in a 2004 Honda Element 2.4 right now, second use with PZ Platinum 5w-20 and Filtech Filter. Oil Currently has about 2500 miles, car has 12500. Oil was also used between 5000-10000.

Should have a UOA in the coming months.

Michael

SodaLuvr

BTW RR,
Some oils may show a higher TBN by design, that does not necessairly mean that its combating acids quicker than another oil that is showing a lower TBN. (RL for example)

SuitedAces

Ok Michael, for those of us whom are interested in doing the right thing for our car, but are somewhat ignorant of the finer points of modern oil formulations, would it be possible to get a ranked order of your recommendations? I have read many suggestions and reviews on these forums involving brands such as Havoline, Amsoil, M1, now Pennzoil, etc, as well as numerous filter, oil weight, and additive options, but I guess I am suffering from an overabundance of information and a shortage of intelligence. Would it be possible to get the definitive ranking of your favorites for those of us that sometimes just need to be told what to do?

I changed my oil at 3k with Havoline 5w-30 (couldn't find the 5w-20 anywhere and finally gave up after trying about 15 different places including 3 Wal-Marts) and a Pure One filter. I've considered switching to synthetic and following the MID, but figured I would do at least one more change with Havoline (currently at about 6k and looking to change the oil again) to give the high Mb content its full chance to work it's break in magic. Does that sound like a good course, or should I just switch to synthetic now, or just not bother? Would 5w-20 of another brand than Havoline be better than 5w-30 Havoline? Such are the questions that keep me awake at night...

SodaLuvr

SuitedAces,
Here's what I feel:

Conventional:
1) Havoline 5w-20 ($7-8/5-quart jug at Walmart)
2) Chevron 5w-20 ($1.50/quart) or Pennzoil 5w-20 ($8/5-quart jug at Walmart)

Blend:
1) Quaker State 4X4 Blend 5w-20 ($11/5-quart jug at Walmart)
2) Motorcraft Syn Blend 5w-20 ($1.50-$2/quart at Walmart)
3) Mobil Clean 7500 ($2.25/quart at Walmart)

Full Syn:
1) Redline 5w-20 ($7.50/quart)
2) Amsoil XL 5w-20 ($4.75/quart)
3) M1 5w-20 ($4.75/quart)

In the end, any of those three conventional oils that I mentioned is adequate if you change the oil when recommended by the MID, for most people between 5-6K. However, the Quaker State 4X4 Blend 5w-20 is really the value leader IMO, as its additive pack is very robust and would give you a greater margin of error.

The best 5w-20 synthetic IMO is Redline, since it works VERY well in high stress, high performance applications. My second choice would be Amsoil XL 5w-20, since it performs just as well if not better than M1 for about the same price.

For oil filters, if you keep drains between 3000-5000 miles, a Purolator Premium Plus or Supertech yes Supertech (Champion Labs Ecore) will do the job. The Supertech is avaliable at Walmart for $2, and Premium Plus avaliable at Pep Boys for about $3. For drains past 5000 miles, I suggest upgrading to a PureOne, Wix, or Napa Gold oil filter.

Michael

SuitedAces

So this new Pennzoil syn doesn't make your list yet? Too new?

Also, is there anything about the Quaker State 4x4 that makes it more suitable for trucks/SUVs and potentially less suitable for a car like ours? Or is it just a good oil for any vehicle, that is being marketed specifically for trucks? If so, I'm surprised they don't have a comparable blend product marketed for cars.

SodaLuvr

Pennzoil Platinum=Want to see a UOA first, but it'd probably fit in the #3 spot with M1.
4X4 Blend, Redneck blend, short trip blend, you can call that oil whatever you want. Its all marketing, but in this case, the 4X4 blend is quite a robust product.

For example, Pennzoil is launching a new 0w-20 Platinum Synthetic for Hybrids next month, and I wouldn't hesitate recommending. Ditto for Diesel oils, known as HDEOs. Do I have a problem using a 10w-30 HDEO if I can find it for a 30wt app....no I don't. HDEOs tend to be more robust.

Michael

KilroyR1

Here's a question for the oil guru's of the board. Is there any benefit to sticking with a particular oil as oppossed to trying different oils? I know you should not experience any problems; however, I'm interested in any benefits of sticking with one kind of oil.

I've landed on Motorcraft 5W20 blend and have a case of it in the garage (and some in the car). I'm down to 30% and will have an analysis done when it's down to 20% or so. I plan to stick with it, but you never know.

TIA,

Don

SodaLuvr

Yes, because it allows you to establish more accurate trends if you analyze your oil. It'd be more obvious if you see a sudden "spike" of a certain element, which is telling you that there may be a problem. If you constantly change oil brands, you may see certain elements appear because of different additives, or reactions between the oil and some materials.

However, if you are seeking professional oil analysis interpretation by Dyson Analysis, which is highly recommended by me, then it really doesn't make that much of a difference as a professional can tell.

Michael