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Not too long ago I have created a post with friendly reminder to change your cabin air filter regularly. Today I finally managed some time to change the engine air filter and clean up my baby. Here is picture of the two filters:
The dirty one used to be blue one year ago when I replaced it... It has currently about 20k miles on it. I just wanted to share it with you since not all of us realize how dirty it gets in such a short time if you daily drive your car.
I always replace the engine air filter along with cabin air filter. Once a year.
This sounds like a good, easy to remember plan. I might have to use this as well. Do you find that a bit over-doing it though? IIRC, the manual says every like 20k mi or so...so possibly every 1.5yrs...unless the filter looks real funky at 1 year already
Doesn't hurt to do it every year since it's cheap, that's a reason why people do it every year. Not to mention it's easy to do.
OEM interval is to replace it every 15000 miles. If you drive that much in a year, replace it.
I've done it every year and noticed each time I replaced the filters it still looks brand new with no debris, just a tiny bit of darker marks (dirt).
Last edited by guitarplayer16; 06-24-2015 at 01:17 PM.
I just ordered my engine and cabin air filters this morning. I'm on a once-a-year schedule, but I do drive about 15K a year, so its right in line. For about $30 total, I'm not concerned about it being a little overkill. Since I did the cut-out for the cabin air filter last time, install will be about 30 seconds.
Hey guys I'm new to the Acura game here. Do you guys recommend any specific brand for cabin air filter? It does it not matter?
ATP HA5 cabin filter from rockauto or amazon. It contains activated charcoal so it traps odors and eliminates them! They are about the same price if not cheaper than the OE replacements.
Agree with that recommendation. Bought one last year, think it turned out to be 15$.
Where'd you buy it so cheap?
I just went to the dealer and they wanted 32 + tax for an OEM one.
Looked online and found the ATP-HA5 for $36 CAD all in at Amazon.ca, but still too expensive for a cabin filter.
I remember back in the day I bought the OEM ones for $20
I just went to the dealer and they wanted 32 + tax for an OEM one.
Looked online and found the ATP-HA5 for $36 CAD all in at Amazon.ca, but still too expensive for a cabin filter.
I remember back in the day I bought the OEM ones for $20
You wasted that perfectly good filter. It wasn't even close to needing a replacement. You could have gone 2-3x as far.
The OEM filter is oiled. It's going to change color quickly from normal use which means nothing. The filters are oversized from the factory so they can get pretty plugged up without hurting performance. They can get pretty nasty before a difference is noticeable and that difference is only noticeable at full throttle.
A dirty filter filters the air better. An air filter has no effect on gas mileage. There's no good reason for replacing one so soon but there are some reasons to leave it in there a bit longer.
With that said, the air filter is the most important filter on the car for engine longevity, much more important than the oil filter. I only use OEM filters because they use a 3 stage filtration. Oil, gauze, paper. So they filter extremely well but they're also capable of going farther and holding more crap before becoming a restriction.
I replace mine every 3 years at most. Even then it's not that bad. That's the other thing the OEM filter has going for it. It fits the air box better and it uses silicone seals, not the rubber ones that fall apart and cause leaks before the media is done. I still can't believe that filter in the picture was replaced. The area you live in has everything to do with the filter change intervals. Some will need a new filter after 10,000 miles, some can literally go 100,000 miles between changes. A car traveling down the freeway at 70mph consuming just a few hundred cfm of air per mile won't need a filter replacement as often as a car driven in the city consuming thousands of CFM per mile. Not exactly the correct unit of measure but I'm too tired to convert it.
I've done it every year and noticed each time I replaced the filters it still looks brand new with no debris, just a tiny bit of darker marks (dirt).
Same here. When i bought my TL back in January 2013, a replaced all filters and oils. Last week i bough an air filter because they were 50% off and realized my filter wasn't dirty at all. Just a tiny bit darker. I was very surprised to the point i was debating if I should change it. But I did, also, my cabin filter was changed at the same time, and that one was dirty with pieces of leaves and dust bunnies all over.
You wasted that perfectly good filter. It wasn't even close to needing a replacement. You could have gone 2-3x as far.
The OEM filter is oiled. It's going to change color quickly from normal use which means nothing. The filters are oversized from the factory so they can get pretty plugged up without hurting performance. They can get pretty nasty before a difference is noticeable and that difference is only noticeable at full throttle.
A dirty filter filters the air better. An air filter has no effect on gas mileage. There's no good reason for replacing one so soon but there are some reasons to leave it in there a bit longer.
With that said, the air filter is the most important filter on the car for engine longevity, much more important than the oil filter. I only use OEM filters because they use a 3 stage filtration. Oil, gauze, paper. So they filter extremely well but they're also capable of going farther and holding more crap before becoming a restriction.
I replace mine every 3 years at most. Even then it's not that bad. That's the other thing the OEM filter has going for it. It fits the air box better and it uses silicone seals, not the rubber ones that fall apart and cause leaks before the media is done. I still can't believe that filter in the picture was replaced. The area you live in has everything to do with the filter change intervals. Some will need a new filter after 10,000 miles, some can literally go 100,000 miles between changes. A car traveling down the freeway at 70mph consuming just a few hundred cfm of air per mile won't need a filter replacement as often as a car driven in the city consuming thousands of CFM per mile. Not exactly the correct unit of measure but I'm too tired to convert it.
I am sorry if I offended you with my preventive maintenance. I like to keep my things clean and up to date.
I am sorry if I offended you with my preventive maintenance. I like to keep my things clean and up to date.
Why would I be offended? The point is, that air filter is far from needing to be replaced and since an air filter filters better as it ages and a dirty air filter does not affect mpg, it was a waste of money to replace it with just a little discoloration. "Up to date" doesn't really apply here, mileage and environmental conditions determine when it's time to change it. For what it's worth I go through 2-3 cabin filters for every one engine air filter partially because the cabin filter is always in use and has more air to filter on average, over time. The engine will draw more peak flow at full throttle but the cabin on average flows more air over time.
My car is one step from being immaculate at 130,000 miles. I'm the original owner and I've put a scope in the cylinders twice to confirm my maintenance schedules are working extremely well. It's hard to get over the dark filter means it's time to change it stigma but once you do, you can save money and have cleaner air at the same time. I do not recommend going for long periods of time on a non factory filter because the seals tend to harden or disentigrate.
I tend to agree with “I hate cars” on the discoloration thing. I have nothing against over-maintenance; Heaven knows I have done my share “kocyk123”.
In a perfect world, a filter would be changed when the differential pressure (DP) becomes unacceptable.
The more soiled a filter becomes, the more efficient it is at filtering…at the expense of DP.
Exactly. DP is the most ideal indicator for a filter change by a mile. I'm surprised there's no sensor before and after the filter that feeds to the ECU. Luckily DP isn't too worrisome until the filter begins looking really bad. There's enough filter area for 400hp so you can run it for a long time before you begin seeing a measurable change in DP.
I'm an over maintainer myself and the air filter was hard to resist changing too often but I had to keep telling myself that it's filtering better that way and eventually it got easy to wait until it was almost a restriction at heavy throttle. I've actually got to change mine soon.
To show how OCD I am, I change an ester based engine oil once a year which is only ~3,000 miles or less. I've changed the coolant every other year since the car was new. It's a good thing because a ton of sand came out with the factory fill. I would hate for that sand to have been circulating for 100,000+ miles or 10 years. I do a drain and fill of the power steering reservoir every year and I'm even using a synthetic ATF in it. I change my fully synthetic media oil filter designed for 20,000 mile intervals with each oil change, I used to change my synthetic ATF every other year which happens to be mostly low viscosity Type F fluid with a little Dex VI even though I've had a cooler and aftermarket filter on it since it was new or close to new. I even change the plugs every 40k for several reasons and since iridium is mostly for longevity I use regular $1-$2 copper plugs with great results.
Basically I'm an over maintainer like the OP but the air filter is the one that I don't over maintain due mostly to the better filtration when dirty. The OEM filter turns color quickly because of the oil that most filters lack. It also doesn't let larger dirt/crap fall back down into the airbox when the engine is shut off as most do so it looks dirty pretty quickly but looks in this case are usually deceiving. Usually the soil color in the area determines how quickly the filter looks dirty. In an area with dark soil the filter gets dark quicker. I live in a dusty area but with lighter colored soil and mine takes a while to look dirty.
Hey Matt, welcome back, but why "pick" on someone that changes an air filter yearly, when you change the antifreeze every 2 years, which is ridiculous, along with some of the other unneeded maintenance items, PS fluid every year?
OP was not asking any opinion on his maintenance, just showing the difference between old and new @ 20k miles.
Hey Matt, welcome back, but why "pick" on someone that changes an air filter yearly, when you change the antifreeze every 2 years, which is ridiculous, along with some of the other unneeded maintenance items, PS fluid every year?
OP was not asking any opinion on his maintenance, just showing the difference between old and new @ 20k miles.
Because unlike changing antifreeze so often (which might not do much good) changing the air filter might be detrimental if only by little.
Hey Matt, welcome back, but why "pick" on someone that changes an air filter yearly, when you change the antifreeze every 2 years, which is ridiculous, along with some of the other unneeded maintenance items, PS fluid every year?
OP was not asking any opinion on his maintenance, just showing the difference between old and new @ 20k miles.
I answered that several times in my posts and I'm not "picking" on anyone. Just trying to educate.
There's a difference in changing fluids in an unfiltered system vs changing an air filter long before its dirty when it filters better as it gets dirty. He showed a picture to illustrate how dirty it was when in fact it's practically new. But you knew that already.
I guess I have to address your usual half truths where you attempt to bend the truth as usual. As I said I do a drain and fill of the PS reservoir, not a complete fluid change. I do a drain and fill of the radiator every 2 years which happened to catch a bunch of sand that was in the system early on. I change my engine oil once a year regardless of mileage because an OCI is not supposed to go more than a year and my trips are all short trips. I admit that I change more often than needed as I did just a couple posts above but the air filter isn't one of those items because it is more harmful than helpful to change too soon.
According to Acura, in dusty areas they call for a relatively short
change interval of only 15k miles........not many miles for a filter
that is supposed to get "better" when dirty. In my book, the cleaner
the better, so change when recommended by the mid, mileage, time,
or just let it go, guess it's up to the descretion of the owner.
According to Acura, in dusty areas they call for a relatively short
change interval of only 15k miles........not many miles for a filter
that is supposed to get "better" when dirty. In my book, the cleaner
the better, so change when recommended by the mid, mileage, time,
or just let it go, guess it's up to the descretion of the owner.
You know me, I like to try different things but a filter filtering better as it gets loaded is pretty normal. We all know Acuras recommendations can be weird like their PSF change or ATF interval which is waaaaaaaay too long. In the case of the air cleaner I'm surprised at how short the recommendation is. I guess "dusty" is subjective. They don't want the engine trying to inhale the filter but to get that bad in 15k would require working at or near a construction site or similar. I live in a dusty area and 30,000 is easy. I'm all for peace of mind so if it makes you sleep better at night replacing s clean air filter with a slightly cleaner one that's fine. It's only $30 once every year or two. I just wanted to point out that filter is not dirty, I know you know that.
Speaking of the filter I literally just returned from the Acura dealer with my new heater water control valve and just realized I forgot the air filter so I'm making the 30 minute round trip again right now. At least I was able to convince the fiancée to let me drive MY new BMW so the TL can cool down. It's not often she allows me to drive it lol.
Engine air filter is the one for the intake or is there another one? Sorry for the noob question.
Yep. The two air filters on these cars are the engine and the cabin air filters. It seems that most go through cabin filters quicker than engine air filters. For me it's at least a 2:1 ratio if not more. In reality where I live the cabin filter is a once a year deal. I just did mine yesterday after a little over a year and it was heavy, probably double the weight of the identical new filter. It looked like someone emptied a handful of sand in it along with lots of fibers. I think they could have done a better job with baffling on the inlet to keep so much stuff from getting sucked in.
Because unlike changing antifreeze so often (which might not do much good) changing the air filter might be detrimental if only by little.
You mean that when a new car is purchased, naturally with a brand new filter, or when the air filter is replaced, the new filter is detrimental to what?????? Sorry, but need to ask.
I know in all the race cars a new filter is utilized, but I guess I've been doing it wrong, maybe I should have been using a dirty one, dirtier the better.
You mean that when a new car is purchased, naturally with a brand new filter, or when the air filter is replaced, the new filter is detrimental to what?????? Sorry, but need to ask.
I know in all the race cars a new filter is utilized, but I guess I've been doing it wrong, maybe I should have been using a dirty one, dirtier the better.
I guess I gave you too much credit. I thought you might be reasonable but of course that's not possible. I thought we were having a mature discussion but you're not capable of that. So there you go with your BS once again. I'll point out the obvious for you... Oh, almost forgot what "race car" do you own?
So.... A race car needs a clean filter because it tends to flow considerably more air than a 258hp TL. A race car tends to prioritize power over engine longevity. Slightly dirtier air from a high flow filter or a new filter has no effect on longevity in most cases because the engine will be torn down long before cylinder wall abrasion ever becomes an issue. As I said from the beginning, the down side of a dirty filter is a loss of power. You know this already of course.
As I stated in the beginning, an air filter filters better when it's loaded a bit. That is not debatable. That doesn't mean it needs to be dirty to filter well, it just means it filters better the longer it's used. I made this statement in the context that there's no good in replacing an air filter early and it can even be slightly detrimental. With detrimental meaning in comparison between new vs loaded, both of which offer completely acceptable levels of filtration. Again, as I said, the stock new, clean OEM filter offers exceptional filtration, it's literally the best OEM filter I've ever seen.
Now go and backtrack, say you meant well and I overreacted and play whatever games you want to play. I can't believe I thought you were being a reasonable human. If it wasn't me that pointed out the filter in the picture was perfectly fine you would have but since it's me and you have this vendetta against me you'll go against what you know is right in order to disagree.
I see why the 3G section is laughed at by the rest of the board and this is why I've lost interest over here. You know exactly what Polo was saying but you have to start a fight. Or am I giving you too much credit? No go and get your breakfast.
I truly am thankful to the OP for the thread. I'm literally going out to the garage right now to change my filter because of this thread.
Heres mine. It looks a little worse than it is. The oil makes it look darker but even this is not bad. I can see light through it almost as well as the new one. I went out and drove it, forgetting it was cooling for the heater valve replacement. I guess that will have to wait till the morning. No noticeable difference in power or sound. This was a bit too soon but it's been about 3 years and I thought it would be worse.
Last edited by I hate cars; 06-27-2015 at 09:35 PM.
I guess I gave you too much credit. I thought you might be reasonable but of course that's not possible. I thought we were having a mature discussion but you're not capable of that. So there you go with your BS once again. I'll point out the obvious for you... Oh, almost forgot what "race car" do you own?
You haven’t missed a beat with your choice of words.
Originally Posted by I hate cars
So.... A race car needs a clean filter because it tends to flow considerably more air than a 258hp TL. A race car tends to prioritize power over engine longevity. Slightly dirtier air from a high flow filter or a new filter has no effect on longevity in most cases because the engine will be torn down long before cylinder wall abrasion ever becomes an issue. As I said from the beginning, the down side of a dirty filter is a loss of power. You know this already of course.
Why would only a race car depend on a new filter? The filter size is much larger than the maximum airflow needed, so there is no way the air flow would be reduced when it gets slightly dirty, but when dirty it does a better job with filtration?
Originally Posted by I hate cars
As I stated in the beginning, an air filter filters better when it's loaded a bit. That is not debatable. That doesn't mean it needs to be dirty to filter well, it just means it filters better the longer it's used. I made this statement in the context that there's no good in replacing an air filter early and it can even be slightly detrimental. With detrimental meaning in comparison between new vs loaded, both of which offer completely acceptable levels of filtration. Again, as I said, the stock new, clean OEM filter offers exceptional filtration, it's literally the best OEM filter I've ever seen.
Can’t see how it filters better the longer it’s used, as ultimately it will start with reduced acceleration, or a rich condition on carb applications. New is better.
Originally Posted by I hate cars
Now go and backtrack, say you meant well and I overreacted and play whatever games you want to play. I can't believe I thought you were being a reasonable human. If it wasn't me that pointed out the filter in the picture was perfectly fine you would have but since it's me and you have this vendetta against me you'll go against what you know is right in order to disagree.
I have no vendetta against you as I have read many of your posts chose not to reply. I was one of the first to read this thread when it was posted and didn’t reply, but it seems that at times, your statements need interrogation to which you get annoyed to say the least.
Originally Posted by I hate cars
I see why the 3G section is laughed at by the rest of the board and this is why I've lost interest over here. You know exactly what Polo was saying but you have to start a fight. Or am I giving you too much credit? No go and get your breakfast.
Wasn’t trying to start a fight, just clear the air with reasonable information for all, and as stated before, I have no idea what Polo was stating, that’s why the questions.
Originally Posted by I hate cars
I truly am thankful to the OP for the thread. I'm literally going out to the garage right now to change my filter because of this thread.
Why would only a race car depend on a new filter? The filter size is much larger than the maximum airflow needed, so there is no way the air flow would be reduced when it gets slightly dirty, but when dirty it does a better job with filtration?
Yes.
Originally Posted by Turbonut
Can’t see how it filters better the longer it’s used, as ultimately it will start with reduced acceleration, or a rich condition on carb applications. New is better.
It's a common occurrence with most any filter. I'm sure you can find an answer via Google. I assumed you knew this and were trying to be difficult. New is not always "better". You can say it all you want but it still remains an opinion and not a fact.
Reduced acceleration will eventually be a symptom of a plugged filter but it has to be bad, very bad before there's enough pressure drop to cause s loss. You're right about a carbureted car and my recommendation would be completely different if that's what we're dealing with. I would replace early like to OP so there's no chance of a richer AFR. Luckily for us, we don't have to worry about that.
Originally Posted by Turbonut
I have no vendetta against you as I have read many of your posts chose not to reply. I was one of the first to read this thread when it was posted and didn’t reply, but it seems that at times, your statements need interrogation to which you get annoyed to say the least.
You're welcome to stick with that statement but history has shown different. I get annoyed when I can see that you're questioning is aimed at annoying me rather than discussing and sharing information. You don't have to agree with me but it's the disagreeing just to disagree that annoys me. If you were interested in a discussion you would have hit on the new vs used filter filtration effectiveness instead of saying I'm picking on the OP and that my maintenance schedule is ridiculous. You see the difference in an attempt to get a rise out of me vs a discussion?
Originally Posted by Turbonut
Wasn’t trying to start a fight, just clear the air with reasonable information for all, and as stated before, I have no idea what Polo was stating, that’s why the questions.
It was abundantly clear what he meant. The only mistake was using the word "detrimental". It's obvious he meant it in a relative sense, not as an absolute. A new filter can be detrimental to filtration *compared to a used filter*. A new filter is not detrimental to filtration. This is your pattern. Try to get a rise out of people and then back off and act innocent as I said you would do a few posts above. You're predictable. I would have more respect for you if you admitted you enjoy causing trouble.
You've been in the game for a long time and I don't believe you've never heard of a used filter filtering better than a new filter. Everyone is various industries knows that many filters filter better as they load up. I think you're trying to argue. But again, maybe I'm giving you too much credit.
Here's a minute of googling on new vs used filter efficiency.
"Mechanical air filters operate on two filtration principals, primary air filtration or impingement of the dust on the media itself, and secondary air filtration which is the dust or filter cake on the filter removing or filtering out smaller dust particles. Figure A1 shows the air filter when it is first installed. Most of the air filtration takes place in the media itself. Figure A2 shows the air filter with dust on the media and the particle reduction efficiency gets better as the filter loads up. All mechanical air filters operate in this manner. "
For free: Engine air filter, pre-loaded for better filtration, why buy new when you can get one pre-loaded!
ps admins don't ban me pls, not srs
ps i hate cars, i knew it was overkill to replace every year but I didn't know it's better to allow it to build up. too late to return now since i bought the new filter and it's already in the car
Last edited by guitarplayer16; 06-30-2015 at 05:29 PM.
For free: Engine air filter, pre-loaded for better filtration, why buy new when you can get one pre-loaded!
ps admins don't ban me pls, not srs
ps i hate cars, i knew it was overkill to replace every year but I didn't know it's better to allow it to build up. too late to return now since i bought the new filter and it's already in the car
Dump your vacuum cleaner bag on it. Just on the one side though alright!
For free: Engine air filter, pre-loaded for better filtration, why buy new when you can get one pre-loaded!
ps admins don't ban me pls, not srs
ps i hate cars, i knew it was overkill to replace every year but I didn't know it's better to allow it to build up. too late to return now since i bought the new filter and it's already in the car
I was seriously going to say something about buying used air filters for my car lol.
Maybe I came off as too harsh in my first post. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I get in a hurry a lot of times and I'm typing as quickly as possible before the boss walks by. I type over 120wpm and I'm not the smartest guy so I basically type quicker than I can think. Kind of like people speaking before they think lol.
Anyway, I don't suggest letting it build up. The difference in filtration is there but the factory filter is so damn good, it's doing a great job from day one. On the flip side, I've noticed that the factory seals stay pliable even after 4 years. They can go the distance if you choose to run them for a long time. If these filters were just a little more expensive I would seriously try to make you an offer on yours.
Now I need to go update my ATF in the powersteering thread where I changed out my synthetic ester based fluid after only 2 years lol.
06-20-2015, 12:59 AM
