Due_Diligence

Cars in the shop to rebuild tranny and I asked what fluid they fill it with and he said Maxlife and a product from lubeguard for friction modifiers. He also stated that it's better than OEM fluid. Is Maxlife better than Dw-1? I'm about to buy 9 quarts of Dw-1 and bring them to the shop but I think he said something about warranty being affected.

Sbarbee54

Maxlife is a Valvoline oil product. Let them put it in then take it some where else and have them do DW1 or redline

Due_Diligence

lol I could do that. I already have 4 quarts sitting at my house that I bought a few weeks ago. But could you really tell which fluid is in the car?

Sbarbee54

depending on their requirement for change out to keep warranty. IE if they said do 5K for break in miles then come in and we will drain and refill. then do another 10K and bring her back. Redline would still be a red tint, but use factory DW1, I dont think could tell at all. Stuff would look the same.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

you probably wont notice any difference, but next time you do a drain and fill just use oem fluid

Sbarbee54

As well I think their warranty cant state you have to stick with maxlife. i think it would have a section in there saying must use a maxlife ATF fluid or one rated equal or better.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

If it were me I'd tell them to put in DW-1. They can't refuse because it's OEM afterall.

Sbarbee54

They can because they are the ones that will warranty the tranny. So it is what they want, but once the put their fluids in, and you switch them out they will never know

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

If u say so, but I have never heard of a tranny that stipulates you use non-OEM fluid. If the tranny is designed for the TL with OEM specs, I don't see how you can't use the OEM fluid or why they would say Maxlife is the only fluid that can go in there. I'm sure Acura did more research on fluids than the tranny manufacturer.

But if this is some kind of new design nuclear proof tranny that will last longer than the OEM one that uses Maxlife, hey I'm with that! Let me know where to sign up. (not being sarcastic actually.)

If the case is that it's the shop that is using whatever they tend to use, don't listen to them. I've heard mechanics say similar things with 200% confidence that they know what they are talking about and you don't. As a matter of fact my cousin who is a mechanic said to use Maxlife. I asked why. He said they just throw it in all their cars at the dealership....good reason, lol. Shops do whatever they get a discount on or whatever is easier and they don't sit there and think about what's best for each car. As long as is is compatible and cheap they use it. I say if you have your own reason for your own pick, go with that.

The only reason I'm saying not to let them put what they prefer to put in there is that changing it back out will be more work for you. Even a 3x3 won't get it all out. When it's dry I'd want to put what I want in it and not fiddle and mix with it.

Sbarbee54

No what I was saying is they can tell you off the bat what fluid it can be filled with when they do the work. Once out of there shop there is no way for them to tell. But since they are servicing the warranty they can put there specific fluid in it to start. You don't have to abid by it later. I mean come on if they say if you want us to fill it from the start with dw1, but you void your warranty, but if you let us fill it with max life you do not. Let them fill it with max life. Wait tell you get home and put dw1 in. After a couple changes in fluid down the road there will be no trace of the max life.

Due_Diligence

I was thinking the same way you were. I mean OEM ATF comes straight from the factory how can you void a warranty because of a fluid the FACTORY puts in the car. But I'm not going to ask questions especially if it will void the warranty which I definitely don't want to happen. So I may go the route that Sbarbee stated because I do feel that the OEM is a better fluid than Maxlife. Doesn't it already have friction modifiers in it already?

Either way I can't wait to get my car back. On the to do list are the compliance bushings and tint. Hoping for another 100K from this car with a new tranny.

truonghthe

Honda AT is kinda sensitive with ATF that why I only do OEM fluid, I just do it every 10k miles or so for 1x3.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

So it sounds like the shop is doing this out of their own convenience then. Ask them specifically if this is a warranty requirement or not, no need to be quiet about it. If it isn't let them put the fluid you want in, simple as that it will save you time and hassle to rectify later.

But in fact if they say you have to go with it, then you have no choice.

Due_Diligence

I already asked the first day it was in the shop. So for now I'm just going to go with it then eventually switch to OEM. I already have a couple bottles at home.

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Oh OK, then maybe I misunderstood. If you gotta, you gotta, oh well.

Sbarbee54

His first post hinted that is what they were saying to him. That is why I suggested let them do it then switch it out

BC2G

i would ask to see the literature on the warranty.. have them show you where it says using anything but maxlife voids your warranty.


The thing about this that makes no sense to me is the Valvoline Maxlife ATF is Z1 spec (the old out of date honda atf spec...) Honda switched to DW1 which maxlife is not..... Very odd this shops practices. After changing the fluid in my TL recently 3 times (3qts Maxlife, 6 qts Acura DW1) i dont like the friction modifiers and the way they make the gear changes less responsive... I'm gonna drop it out and put redline next

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Right he hinted that, but I didn't want to assume, he could have meant different things. If he was specifically told that it is a conditional aspect that determines warranty coverage that makes the probability even stronger. Even that is not clear enough though. In my experience many shops will lie for their own convenience thinking no harm done. So there's no reason to trust them at their word.

As BC2G is pointing out the most clear thing is for someone to say it clearly and back it up in print. It shows me that they take the extra effort to be transparent and puts themselves in my shoes. A shop that does that without me even asking them to is one I am more apt to trust.

I hate cars

It's normal practice for transmission shops so use a DEXIII bulk fluid and use the black bottle of Lubegard to bring the FM to where it needs to be for Hondas. We only bought drums of Dex III and used Lubegard to do the rest. The exception was a couple cases of Type F for the race cars we sponsored.

Maxlife by itself is just like any other fluid. It's probably what they get cheap. With Lubegard you can bet it's at least as good as the factory fill.

Sbarbee54

MFG can stipulate anything VIA fluids if they are the one holding the warranty to it. I ran through the same issue when I wanted to upgrade my F250 transmission and have suncoast do it (Make one of the best F250 diesel trannys on the market, had my truck sent from CA to FL to have it done). I wanted to run other fluids in it, and nope if I wanted their warranty when i drove out of their shop I had to let them use their fluids in it, that they determine is best for their product. So I let the 5K break in period go, had their CA contracted shop changed the fluid out to check for metal and issue, let them refill with there same fluids and drove off. I got it home and changed it all out.

I would never try and force a shop to put different fluids in if it may effect the warranty. or even if they threaten it. You are asking for problems to start, and for someone that can hold a expensive warranty item you depend on, no chance. why gamble, let them do what they want and swap it out when you get home. no need to chance it or even give them a reason to suspect you are going to do it. You are just asking to give them ammo to void your warranty for anything down the road. Hell if I was the shop and you came in fussing about our policy and asked me to show you where it states it, I would note on your account to test the fluid any time the car came in and if there was any warranty claim. You are asking for trouble you dont need.

why play Russian roulette with a loaded gun?

rockyfeller

iTrader: (6)

Yea I get what you're saying, I'm not disagreeing. But it's just 2 different ways of looking at it. I for one tend to stick to my guns because it is my car at the end of the day. I need good reason to do it someone else's way that's all. I question everything.

I once had a Honda dealer do work for me. They told me what they recommend. I asserted that I'd rather give them what they want, and asked if it would void the warranty. They hesitated, because they said nobody really asks them that. They had to think it over, but they said no and OK they'll do it. Honda guys used my brake fluid, coolant, spark plugs and put in a lightweight pulley for no extra charge when I did my 105k. Warranty intact and I saved time and money using better stuff. Acura would not have done that for me, they specifically said no, only OEM. I know, I know that is a different situation that has to do with labor warranty, but I am just saying.

I hate cars

In order to legally void the warranty over a fluid, the manufacturer would have to supply the oil. VW has very specific oil requirements, specifically around the HTHSv. You don't think they offer free oil changes just to be nice, do you?

This might be worth a read. I don't remember if it touches on the fluids specifically or not but it addresses the aftermarket for sure.

http://www.zabteck.com/MagnusonMossWarrantyAct.pdf

Due_Diligence

Good points in this thread. But at the end of the day having the warranty will help me sleep at night knowing that is ANY issue arises I will not hesitate in bringing it back. I'm sure this guy is good because the mechanic I always rely on for work recommended him.

So i'll have to check if I need to bring it back in for a break in period check or what have you. Later I'll most likely change to OEM or redline. Although (not hating on redline IHC) I'm pretty hesitant on putting redline back in my car after it failed with it in which I know that it was most likely on its way out. It just sped up the failing process. After paying for this rebuild it reassures that I will be keeping this car forever.

I'm not going to push the issue about the warranty in writing as this may cause more issues for me down the road.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

Redline ATF is whAt I should put in from the get go.. It's not the same if u start with one brand then switch to another cause u are always mixing the fluid so it's best to start one way and stick that way. I use acura fluid only.

My mechanic however did say he puts in redline ATF for supercharged cls but that's directly after the rebuild. No switching/ mixing fluids

Sbarbee54

Switching and mixing will not hurt anything. After so many drain and fills you will have no traces of the original.

And yes shops that do work can deny warranty or say it voided the warranty they offer on a part or parts they replace or rebuild due to failure to use acceptable fluids. I have seen it first hand with my ford f250. Because I would not use the ford gold coolant and switched it out to extended life coolant, that does not have silicate in it like the ford gold does. They voided my egr cooler warranty and head gasket and head studs. When the true cause was found to be a faulty weld in the new egr. So the 3500$ in work I had done 4 months prior and only 459 miles before was not covered, and I ended up shelling out another 2800$ at a different shop to fix it. The only reason they knew I changed it out was color.

I hate cars

I would be hesitant too, no worries there. Sometimes what makes you sleep better at night is what you should go with even if all it does is reduce stress.

We know DW-1 is much better than Z1 and back when I was recommending Redline Z1 was all we had so I believe it's not as important to go aftermarket as it once was. I truly believe Redline is better but DW-1 isn't junk as Z1 was. To be honest, after seeing how these transmissions like a thinner fluid, if I were recommending Redline, I would recommend D6 for most climates if you're looking for a great yet safe replacement fluid that doesn't stray too far from OEM. I think any Dex VI fluid is superior to Dex III fluid in any brand (that's what D6 is). I could see Dex III becoming obsolete due to this newer fluid.

I still recommend the Type F for those that are a little more adventurous and want potentially less wear and quicker shifts. However, it's imperative that you keep the viscosity low enough and you MUST replace switches in advance of using Type F or it's possible to cause more wear due to poor factory shift timing when switches get out of calibration. Type F would make this problem worse. If using Redline Type F, I would be more inclined to use 2qts lightweight racing for every quart of plain racing or even straight lightweight if you live in a cooler area.

Honda ATFs, even Z1 are on the very thin side as temps get colder. When I originally modeled the fluids I only went down to freezing because that's as cold as it gets around here but there's a significant difference in cold viscosity between Honda and just about everyone else.

So my opinion is Dex VI in place of Dex III for 99% of the cases. If using Type F, you must do the switches too and make sure viscosity is low enough. With the aftermarket fluids, you can get away with a thinner fluid anyway.

And again, I don't blame you if you don't want to run Redline after you had a failure on it. I would have a hard time too. I still believe in it (and any Dex III, VI, and F) but there are stipulations to using them to increase performance and reduce wear that can bite you in the ass. I want to go through the old transmission threads and add the new information I've figured out but I don't have the energy anymore.

Good luck with your rebuild. If they did the Trans-go updates it can literally last twice as long as factory. I wish I would have remembered to tell you about it. It's not a shift kit, it's a shift improver kit. It fixes the factory defects. We never rebuilt one without the updates. Hopefully your shop did this and with it, the trans will be less sensitive to viscosity change and it should drastically improve longevity.

I hate cars

I'm not trying to be a jerk but you let them win. Again, unless they supply the fluid free of charge and you're not using something drastically different, they can't do that. They can lie and cheat and give you a hard time and hope you give in but if you fight you're probably going to win. There are some exceptions but those vehicles had known EGR and porosity problems and the coolant was just a very ineffective bandaid. Obviously if you mix fluids and cause gelling or use ATF in the engine you probably won't be covered but otherwise the odds are in your favor.

Due_Diligence

Thanks for the wealth of knowledge. Could you elaborate more on this trans-go update? I'm sure there annoyed with me as I call all the time and ask questions about checking this and that. But this is something I would like to find more about and maybe ask them if they incorporated it at all. The car will be done the middle of this week there waiting on a part from acura don't remember exactly what its called but he said it was discontinued and another part superseded it. What I'm seriously impressed by is the member swoosh used redline and I believe his tranny is still going strong. I'm pretty sure it has more miles than my car.

I was also curious on your thoughts as to why redline could harm an older tranny? After doing 2nd drain and fills with redline D4 everything seemed fine but I did notice the same amount of debris attached to the drain plug each time. After a couple hundred miles after doing the 3rd drain and fill I noticed my first sign of the shudder shifting from 1st to 2nd it was very faint. To me it seems like the torque converter was the real issue. The tranny never flared it only had the shudder. When cold it shifted completely fine no issues, after a few stoplights and traffic welllll that's another story.

Sbarbee54

Ohh I took them to court, spent 2200 out of pocket fighting it. Lost in court, and they would not cover anything. I know all the causes to the problems with the truck that is even why the offered a after market bulletproof diesel egr cooler, which I went with because it is supposed to help with these issues.

I flushed the system 100% heck we even ran water in it for 2 days to make sure got everything, plus when fixed the first time they did a complete flush and clean. So when we, a ford diesel tech I met on a forum, flushed it then ran it for 2 days with water, them put elc in it we also installed a coolant filter on the truck. The cause was found to be by the other shop that fixed it to be a weld let lose in the new egr cooler cause it to have adjacent tube next to where the weld let go collapse and clog the egr cooler. No signs of gelling and no signs of even the slightest silicate or derbies in the coolant filter.

I lost because a none recommended fluid was used, that could potentially cause damage to the work that was done. Even though I showed that the elc, was a better product and a recommended by several dealerships.

I hate cars

Ask for the Trans-Go Shift Improver Kit. It's not a traditional shift kit, it fixes all of the factory defects like lube and shift timing problems. It's a MUST. Their cost is typically $20-$100 for it. You don't want a traditional shift kit such as those offered by B&M and many others unless you want it to chirp the tires and that's a bad idea anyway.

There are several explanations for the D4 issues, I'll get I to that later on. I'm seriously slammed at work right now but I wanted to get you that info on the Transgo kit real quick. I thought your trans was already rebuilt, that's awesome that there's still time.

Due_Diligence

Thanks! I'll definitely give them a call first thing monday morning. Although if I hear something about the warranty blah blah blah I'll just say forget it. If their a transmission shop thats been around for quite some time I would assume that they've heard of this product so I will give it a go.

Are there any members on the forum that have this product installed that you know of? I want this tranny to last me another good 100k or more, which I hope is not a stretch...

Slpr04UA6

In for more info! As this is the fluid I am running now, after getting the Z1 outta there! Appreciate all thoughts on this!

Due_Diligence

How long have you been running it? Are you having any issues? I'm assuming you've completed the full 3x3.

Slpr04UA6

No issues at the moment. I have been running the D4 for 6 months or more. It shifts a lot better than the old Z1, that's for sure. I have also replaced the pressure switches, for the second time (as preventative maintenance). I only have 66k on it.

Due_Diligence

I want to say that this is directed (mostly) at higher mileage vehicles that are doing a drain and fill for the first time (that they can recall). I'm sure you will be fine, especially if you've been running it for six months. I did my drain and fills within a 2 month span and started to notice issues with shuddering, no flaring involved.

Due_Diligence

So I talked to the guy at the shop and he said that he'll look into the trans-go shift kit. There were somethings he mentioned that I would like to hear your take on it.

First he said that due to the firmer and quicker shifts there would be more pressure due to the kit which could potentially cause problems because the cars electronics dictate the timing of the shift (also something pressure related too) and it could try and compensate because the shifts are quicker.

Also that this could cause more wear due to the electronics trying to control the timing of the shifts and something about high and low pressure. Another point he stated was there could be more wear of the pump.

He even mentioned something about the bore and a company called sonics i believe?

I'm not a tranny expert by no means, so hopefully you can translate my gibberish.

I hate cars

I can totally understand what he's saying. He's assuming line pressure will be raised which is usually not the case with the shift improver kit. If it were a traditional shift kit he would be right about the line pressure getting bumped up.

These kits only raise pressure where it's needed but more importantly they fix problems that exist from the factory. Your guy is guessing as to what this kit does and he's not even close.

Here it is if you're interested. It looks like it really focuses on the converter issues:




Honda-LK
.Detail { font-family: Arial, Helvetica, Verdana; padding: 0px; float: left; height: auto; width: 640px;}TRANSGO PART: Honda-LKCLASSIFICATION: SPECIALTY PARTSFITS: Honda Lube Kit for 6 Cylinder engines"Enough parts to fix up to (6) Transmissions"
Acura:

CL V6 Only: 97-03 M7ZA, BGFA, MGFA
3.2TL & TL: 99-09 B7VA, M7WA, B7WA, BDGA, BDHA
MDX: 01-09 MGHA, BGHA, MDKA, BDKA, BYFA
RL: 05-08 MJBA


Honda:

Accord V6 Only: 99-09 B7XA, BAYA, MAYA, B97A
Odyssey V6 Only: 99-09 B7TA, B7YA, BYBA, BGRA,
PGRA, P36A, B36A
Pilot: 03-09 BVGA, PVLA, PVGA, P35A, P34A
Ridgeline: 06-09 BJFA, MJFA, PSFA
Saturn:


Vue: 04-07 MDRA, MDPA

Call Product Support: (626) 443-7451 for more coverage information.
FEATURES: Corrects/Reduces/Prevents: Repeated Hot Trip Converter Blues. (Severe Overheating)
Honda-LK provides proper cooler flow and converter charge pressure, that is necessary to properly
repair Honda, Acura and Saturn units. Also includes Tech Data.
Overheated Torque Converters, A good story to read! 12/21/2011Special Instructions: Requires transmission removal for proper installation.Common Part Numbers: TranstarT80168 WIT Whatever it TakesA20741ELKOTS Oklahoma Transmission SupplyHonda-LK A & Red'sHonda-LK NatproK91946L Slausons Dacco, MST, D&E, and Dean Honda-LK PTW Portland Transmission WarehouseHonda-LK Summit Racing/Atech MotorsportsN/A
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Their tech is invaluable and I would probably call to see exactly what this kit addresss besides the converter problems and what else you can do to help the longevity. I know 3rd gear's exhaust circuit does not have enough volulme, causing 2nd and 3rd to apply at the same time during a 4-2 automatic downshift, causing lots of wear to the 3rd gear clutch pack. This is the only place using a good non FM fluid can actually increase wear. I would definitely look for this fix in their kit which will probably consist of drilling the tiny hole out just a little bit.

Actual shifts are actuated hydraulically and a lot of the apply/release timing is hydraulic where the electronics just initiate the shifts. The shop's concerns are unfounded.

I'll try and call these guys if I get some free time today. You may want to look up the 3rd gear exhaust issue on the internet and see what people are doing about it. You can see there are several drill bits, I bet one of those is for the 3rd gear exhaust bind. I know there's a fix while the trans is open.

Due_Diligence

damn my edit didn't go through... What he said was this kit is all about lube and since I'm getting new valve bodies that it wasn't needed...

I'm assuming this kit doesn't make quicker shifts, it seems that it's mostly a reprogram option.

I'm kind of in a bind because the car is suppose to be done either today or tomorrow, and if I go this route it may add additional days onto the repair (having to get the parts and then the labor). I'll have to put some thought into what I want to do during work today. I also need to give my mom her rdx back since I'm borrowing it.

You'll been very helpful IHC, appreciate it!