back2vtec

bought an 06 TL 5sp AT with 50k miles on it, babied it's whole life and very well maintained BUT hasn't had timing belt replaced.
sources say timing belt should be replaced at just over 100k miles or 9 years.

I would like to run it to the mileage instead of age, what do the veterans think?

thanks,

Cristian

Crashmaster

Your engine is what is called an interference engine. Meaning that if the belt breaks, the valves will hit the piston and bend valves, damage valve stems, perhaps piston damage, cylinder head damage and perhaps damage the engine block. Cost of repairs might exceed the cost of the engine ($4000 to $5000). Even if the timing belt skips a tooth on the crank or camshaft gear, you can still do massive damage. Why would you want to take a chance? Whether you babied this vehicle its entire life, the rubber is not designed to go beyond 100K miles or 9 years which is why Acura recommends replacing it.

08KBP_VA

This has been asked multiple times. It comes down to you and your comfort level and finances. My TLS only had 39k miles when I changed it last year. Was belt bad...no. Did I want to take a risk? No. At under $700 all in it was a no brainer. YES

thoiboi

Just run it to 100K, chances are your transmission will go before the timing belt snaps, so why spend the $$ on the belt

Kikirra

I would be more worried about your tensioner leaking/failing after nine years than I would be about the rubber of the belt failing. It is about $200 worth of parts to replace the following components if you use the AISIN kit from Rockauto:

• AISIN Water Pump
• Hydraulic Tensioner
• Koyo Idler Bearing
• Koyo Tensioner Bearing
• Mitsuboshi Timing Belt
• Water Pump Gaskets & O-Rings

More Information for AISIN TKH002
Put this code in the "How did you hear about us" section in the cart before check out for 5% off: 6471789857971574

My 04 TL is at 273,000 miles and I've used this kit twice now and I install it myself. You aren't at 105K miles yet, so you don't need to replace spark plugs or look into adjusting valves, which is typically done the same time as the timing belt. If it was me, for $200 and a afternoon of quality time with the TL... I would replace the timing belt components, and not worry for another 120K miles or seven years.

t-rd

You don't have to change it, and wait for a long while, until the day the hydraulic tensioner goes then it's an engine swap which will cost you thousands of dollars. Take a gamble and see what happens.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Just a point of order here; the various Honda/Acura models with the venerable J-Series engine and time recommendation for the Timing Belt indicate the change interval is seven years not nine.

FWIW, I was negotiating to buy a 2006 TL 6MT back in May with only 20,300 miles on the clock; the car had the factory tires and Timing Belt on it and the first thing I would have done had I been able to come to terms with the seller was to have the Timing Belt service done, the brakes flushed all the way around, and the tires replaced. Why? In the case of the belt and the tires, dry rot will dramatically shorten the serviceable life of the rubber component.

MyGuti

Coming from someone who also babies their car.....I got mine done well before the service came up (I have over double your mileage thou).
BUT I would definitely get it done...if you plan on wanting to drive your car for the next few years.
Just figure out what else you need to replace (that might be wearing out by 9 year mark).

My 2 cents

truonghthe

You might want to put on flame suit since someone will engulf you in flame for that statement above, "if it ain't broke, don't fix" its their moto.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Fortunately I'm so old I can wear asbestos underwear with no worries of cancer. Why? Because I'll most likely already be rotting in my grave before the aforementioned cancer progresses enough to get me.

truonghthe

^^^ lmfao.....

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Got to chime in again. There is no time limit on the 3G TL, just when the display indicates change @ 105k miles.
I did my '04 a couple of months ago, 13 yrs, 102k miles and actually everything as new. Belt excellent and tensioner not leaking. In fact just pushed the plunger back in, pinned it and put it in a box, why, I dunno.

NBP04TL4ME

I'm not even sure there is a mileage interval. I believe it is when the "4" shows up in the MID. Could be that this coincides with in or around the 105K mark, but don't know as I'm not there yet.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I might believe a regularly driven car may well be able to safely go 13 years on a belt, maybe. The thing is, over on the Honda forums I frequent, there are plenty of examples of folks with J30 engines (like the one in my Accord) where the 105,000 mile limit had yet to be reached, but the belt jumped a tooth or two, and caused significant engine damage. For my Accord, Honda says, 105,000 miles or 7-years, whichever comes first; I have a hard time believing the J32 in our TLs uses/abuses the timing belt (same belt by the way) in such a way as to obviate the need for the 7-year replacement requirement.

The above said, exercising rubber components, be it tires or belts, actually helps keep the rubber conditioned. The car I referenced a few posts back only had 20,000 miles in eleven years of driving; to me at least, that indicates long periods of inactivity which in turn is a huge red flag when it comes to the whole dry rot thing.

truonghthe

NBP04TL4ME

And just to add fuel to the fire and FWIW - The Honda mechanic I use (does side work at his home) has told me numerous times that he has never seen or heard of a timing belt breaking. He cites a particular 2007 Pilot that came into the dealership to have it's timing belt done for the first time at get this - 303K. He said the timing belts are overbuilt and are very robust. He does not condone waiting that long and recommends following the maintenance schedule and/or when the "4" shows up on the MID.

Carry on................

nfnsquared

You are correct, for normal conditions there is no time or mileage spec listed in either the OM or FSM. But from numerous examples on this forum, the "4" does indeed coincide with ~105K.

An 06TL is coming up on 12 years. Given that, IMO it's well worth the piece of mind for a DIYer to grab a Gates kit for $130 and slap it on there. And I say that primarily with the tensioner life in mind.

Having said that, I'd venture to say there's a greater than 95% that the belt/tensioner will last until 105K....

But the equation also depends on how long the OP plans to keep the car. It sounds like he just bought it and plans to drive it for at least another 4 years. Even if the OP has to spend ~$700 for someone else to do the service, is $175/year worth the OP's peace of mind?

eastcoastguy

Mine is an 07 and was a little over 100,000 miles and it showed up on the MID so I have it scheduled to be done at good ol Hamilton Honda. So even the mileage thing may be questionable.

NBP04TL4ME

Below your avitar it says you are from MO, so you are driving from MO to NJ to get the timing belt service done???

eastcoastguy

I am originally from there and still have family there so I am having it done while I am visiting friends and family. However, it would almost be worth it to still drive that far as I cant find anywhere around here that will do it for a decent price.

nist7

A very contrarian opinion to be sure. Of course without good, group data for comparison we'll likely never know for sure. I reckon there are a handful of TBs out there who had just the right manufacturing tolerance/rubber mated to a car that was driven by just the right owner in the right conditions on a daily basis that minimized the TB wear so it can last a whopping 300k mi without issue. For a majority of others I'm not sure that is the case. And for a piece of mind $1000 every 100k mi is small price to pay vs the risk.

I'm at 202000 miles now and looking at a 2nd TB/WP service here soon. I assume the MID will tell me or better to be prepared and just do the TB at 205-210k?

nfnsquared

^^^^ It will tell you. But also remember that 04-06 TL odometers are off (read greater mileage than actual) by up to 5%. Mine is off by about 2%...

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Really? Hmmm, next time I take a trip I'll compare my odometer to my GPS and report back with the delta.

nfnsquared

Yep, there was a class action lawsuit which extended the warranty by 5% (to 52500 miles).

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/30/au...30MILEAGE.html

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Thinking about the odometer error thing a bit more...

Compared to my Garmin GPS the speedometer in my TL registers 1-2 MPH high at an indicated 75 (i.e. my Garmin says 73). As I wrote a few posts back, I have yet to compare the odometer between the two, but if there is consistency between the TL's speedometer and odometer, then I would think it registers slightly more miles driven than actual.

Funny thing, both of my BMWs registered about 2 mph high at 75, but the odometer was always spot on.

NBP04TL4ME

Makes sense and thought that might be the case based on your username.

nist7

Wow interesting. Didn't know that about the 04-06 TLs. Thanks for the info. I'll just wait for the MID to tell me when a TB is due.

NBP04TL4ME

Not sure what to tell you - i'm just retelling the story he told me. He has been a Honda / Acura mechanic for 20+ years, so I'm sure he has seen and replaced 100's or 1000's of TBs For the 2007 Pilot, I just figured there was a certain amount of luck or as you mention the right conditions. However with that said 300K in 10 years means that Pilot was driven an awful lot. Again he absolute is not condoning skipping maintenance in any way.

nist7

Oh no I wasn't trying to debate or argue. I think it's very possible....though again it would be interesting to see about true lifetime of a TB. It's impossible to do actual placebo controlled/blind experiment on TB lifetime but we are fed continuously that it must be replaced at 100k/7yrs....but who knows...maybe that's also a myth like the 3000 mile oil change......

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Not a myth IMO, but a way for Honda to cover liability in the case that the timing belt fails. Like all components that are critical to the operation of a product, they're often over-engineered. Safety items are one example. Airbags, seatbelts, etc. But repair liabilities are another for sure. It's all a case of numbers. Chances are, if no timing belts were ever changed, and the data was gathered on what mileage every Honda belt snapped, it would be very high. Possibly double the interval or more. But since there's a chance that it would snap before then, it's a simple matter of Honda covering their butt by mandating a conservative service interval.

I'd do the same thing. Just good business practice really.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Just thinking while I type here...

Back in the day when I did a lot of cycling (like in the mid-1970s through the early 1990s) I ran into a rep from one of the premier makers of clinchers (it might have been Continental but I don't remember for sure); he told me they take a bunch of tires from a new design, inflate them, and slowly keep increasing the pressure, if the tire blows up or otherwise separates from the rim, the pressure of the failure event is halved and that is the pressure printed on the sidewall. Said another way, if the tire blows up at say 220 psi, then the sidewall pressure is listed as 110 psi.

I wrote the above to suggest this; do you suppose timing belt life is calculated in a similar manner? In other words, run the belt on a simulator for the equivalent of some number of miles, wait for it to fail, and then halve the number of miles.

I've worked as a consulting engineer for three different automotive manufacturers, but I never got involved in the whole timing belt lifespan thing; it would be interesting to find out how the lifespan is calculated, to me at least.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

We must have been writing at the same time and you posted right before me; seems we were both following a similar thought pattern.

t-rd

Tell you what, I just heard a story today of a 2002 Accord V6's engine grenading. It is of the J series family, with all the same engine layout. You know why it grenaded? The hydraulic tensioner failed. Hydraulic tensioner started leaking, all fluid leaked out, timing belt loosened and jumped teeth on the rear cam gear. It was completely done after that. I saw the pictures myself when the guy showed me. Pistons went up and actually nailed the spark plugs. The tips of the spark plugs smashed in, pistons' connecting rods bent. The belt? Oh, the belt was completely fine, still intact, but the entire left or rear side of the belt was LOOSE from the failed the hydraulic tensioner.

So let's continue the debate and see if the timing belt should be changed or changed after a certain amount of years. If you'd like to see these pictures of the spark plugs smashed by pistons, I can ask for them and post them here.

nfnsquared

16 years on the tensioner?

nist7

Ah good point. I think you're right and it makes sense if I were to imagine myself being a Honda engineer....test a bunch of TBs in their in-house lab, gather data and get a curve to see % failure vs mileage/use and then set a mileage point that's reasonably safe.

NBP04TL4ME

I work in a different industry and we regularly submit products to accelerated aging tests to ensure product integrity and safety. It only makes sense that Honda and others would do something similar. After all reliability is a huge key in product / brand marketing and sales.

losiglow

iTrader: (1)

Yep. My thoughts exactly. Pretty much the exact same situation as timing belt construction.

I'm not suggesting anyone should assume that because many products are over-engineered, that they should be pushed to the limit. I had my Pilots 210K service done just a month ago since I decided to hang onto it for another 100K or however long it lasts. But I bet I could have gone a lot longer since it was changed back at 100K. I think that a conservative spec is placed on different products since there's intrinsic variability in manufacturing which lends itself to the same product having higher and lower reliability and performance. Even with timing belts and tensioners, there's the minority that have them fail before the 105K interval. Those poor saps would have gotten the lower limit outlier. Despite all the quality controls, there's often going to be that lower outlier in manufacturing. Just hope I'm never the one who gets it

I'm kind of a computer dork and while I was driving Uber, I bussed around quite a few engineers and QC folks that work at IM flash here in Lehi, UT. They're an OEM manufacturer for much of Intel's flash memory. One guy I talked to used to work in Intel's processor design and gave me some pretty good insight into CPU manufacturing. If you look at different models of CPU's, you'll notice that there are several different variants of the same CPU. The i5 for example, has 4-6 different variants depending on the generation. The only difference in the variants is the speed at which they run (there's typically a low voltage variant as well but that's another process entirely). The fact is that all of them are manufactured together, using the same materials and process. Then the CPU's are briefly tested to see at which point they become unstable. Based on that testing, they're labeled as different models. This is all simply due to the microscopic differences in the CPU, which is especially prevalent due to transistors being down in the nanometer range. It's crazy stuff. I'm not nearly smart enough to ever work in that field. But if you want, you can overclock most of them up to 15-20% and still maintain stability, especially if you keep them cool enough. But again, they're conservative in their clocking of each CPU simply to maintain the highest level of CPU stability while still keeping them as fast as possible.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Took a mini-roadtrip today:

• Miles (ODO): 188.0
• Miles (GPS): 185.6
• Error: +1.29%

I'm thinking my tires are between 60% and 70% gone; I'll probably mount a new set of skins this fall and try the test again (I suspect new tires will drop the error to well under 1%)

axesd

I got my car March of 2016 at 98K. Got my spark plugs and transmission fluid changed almost immediately. Right now, July 31 2-17, I am at 129K right now. Still going with the same belt. The car was originally from Arizona, so I believe the TB was changed around 55k - 60k. I am gonna take my car to this guy who works at Firestone ( He has a Honda Accord going for 400K already). When I took the car to the store for brake job last May, he told me I don't need to change the TB. He was honest about it. Let's see what he will says about my TB. If anything, I will change it there, at a Honda dealership or just buy the part at Rockauto and find a local mechanic to change it for me.