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...so mine made it 238K on the original 04 with the oil jet mod that the dealer did in early 2005 under TSB or warranty. D4 mixed with Type F, pressure switches and filter every 30K miles, or so. The pump just went out on the transmission last week - clutches, shaft and everything look very good with minimal wear. I am a believer in the maintenance. I should have it done tomorrow, and then I start my journey back from the moon - which is about 238K mile away.
Well, this es my "Try, Fail, Try Again Till Success" project;
I have big hands so it was very difficult to remove and then enter the filter (I see why this is not a common maintenance work, it is necessary to have the transmission removed) but I think I succeeded.
Use a piece of Velcro and tied the spring to the filter and then was inside dropped the piece of velcro and done !!! Thanks for DIY.
Great forum and nice write up. I'm just doing this and like to show what I found and a tip on how to remove lower housing bolt. I made up a tool with a 1/4" 10mm drive socket attached to a drill socket adapter and used a ratcheting 1/4" wrench. Will try and post pic. I also had the top metal portion of the filter come off and when I looked inside the banjo bolt it had pieces lodged inside obstructing the holes wow!!a necessary service for sure. Car does have 289k though.
Hey loving the diy but I ran into a issue today while doing this. The cover for the trans filter broke . Snapped clean so I may can glue it. I'm assuming to much torque but where can I find another one? Going to hit some junkyards in the am and hopefully find one. Dealer wants 48.99 and its a special order part . Thanks for the help
Was having a problem where my 04 would stop shifting after driving for a short distance. I had to turn it off and turn it on a few times to get it home. I researched a little and decided to try the cheapest fixes first. Did the 3 X 3 with both wheels off the ground, and followed the suggested procedure of shifting through all the gears. It was kind of nerve racking to watch the speedo go up to 60 but it worked out. The test drive seemed to be going well, drove for 2 miles through stop signs, then the shifting faded and had to turn off and turn back on to get home. Replacing the filter was a lot easier than I thought, the only thing I learned was the easiest way to get the filter out and the new one in is to just push down on the inlet line. We really had no hangups. The old filter looked like some of the pictures already posted. Black and the rubber was cracked and hard. Test drive with the new filter went well. Went 3 miles with no hiccups, then went out to the airport and back. Now I have 20 miles with the new filter and and very happy with the results so far. Even if the transmission goes eventually, the 3x3 flush and fill and the new ATF filter directly solved the problem I was having. Shift quality improved after it warmed up. Would recommend doing this every 15-20k miles as it isn't hard if you know what you're doing. Rediculous that isn't not recommended maintenance at a dealership.
One of the few times that it is actually better to have an older model.
In the illustration above - The washers for the Banjo fitting was changed midway thru the 2006 production run. I ordered two of each version and will "cherry pick" which version is best.
In the quote above - Correction on the typo on the PN #91302. Red text in above quote is the corrected info
I noticed the same thing about those 2 hoses being tied together and I couldn't get them apart so I could swing the larger hose out of the way. There's not enough room to safely remove the cap because those 2 hose lines are connected together and I can't move them without using force. So I just left the cap on and pit everything back together and didn't do it. Kinda sad? I mean I did ball joints bust this quick easy fast little 15 min job, er reportedly so, is not so easily done. Haha. It looks like from the original post, that guy just forced the hoses apart. They don't look close together at all. But mine is not like that. The clamp that holds those 2 hoses together is 1 way only. It snaps the hoses together but good luck on pulling it apart in that cramped area.
long story short, if I want to do this without forcing the smaller hose in a bad position, which is a delicate hose, them I will have to dismantle more stuff and its going to take much longer than 15min. He'll I spent 45 min just trying to figure out how I could get those hoses out of the way without breaking them, and I came up with nothing. And since I had to go running today, I just put the dang thing back together! Lovely.
Originally Posted by MTMTRI
A few questions and comments. First thank you for this thread. I did my 2004 today. Because I am not the best with tools it took me about an hour. My terminology might be off so please not too harsh with comments.
The black hose that comes out of the filter housing that you disconnect is connected to a small metal hose. I can not get the 2 to separate and it makes it very tight trying to get the filter in or out. I finally squeezed it out but now it is very hard to get the spring and filter back in correctly. How do you disconnect the black hose from the metal one to have better access. Could I have just left the spring in or do you need to take it out to clean it? It is all put back together and seems to be running fine but now I am concerned that possibly the spring was not put back in correctly. Will it run fine if the spring is not in perfectly or should I take it apart and redo?
Was having a problem where my 04 would stop shifting after driving for a short distance. I had to turn it off and turn it on a few times to get it home. I researched a little and decided to try the cheapest fixes first. Did the 3 X 3 with both wheels off the ground, and followed the suggested procedure of shifting through all the gears. It was kind of nerve racking to watch the speedo go up to 60 but it worked out. The test drive seemed to be going well, drove for 2 miles through stop signs, then the shifting faded and had to turn off and turn back on to get home. Replacing the filter was a lot easier than I thought, the only thing I learned was the easiest way to get the filter out and the new one in is to just push down on the inlet line. We really had no hangups. The old filter looked like some of the pictures already posted. Black and the rubber was cracked and hard. Test drive with the new filter went well. Went 3 miles with no hiccups, then went out to the airport and back. Now I have 20 miles with the new filter and and very happy with the results so far. Even if the transmission goes eventually, the 3x3 flush and fill and the new ATF filter directly solved the problem I was having. Shift quality improved after it warmed up. Would recommend doing this every 15-20k miles as it isn't hard if you know what you're doing. Rediculous that isn't not recommended maintenance at a dealership.
The exact same shifting problem is happening to me right now, where the transmission works fine for the first few miles, then stops shifting. The repair shops are quoting me new transmissions, which don't completely make sence since it works for the first few miles. I am grateful for your post because I can now replace this filter and see if it will continue to work.
Great post, very useful and well done. I think you should know there is a typo in the part number. The picture shows the part number as 91302-RAY-003 and you typed 01302-RAY-003 in your description.
I performed this procedure three months ago and it saved me from what I thought was going to be a complete transmission replacement. Thank you sooooo much.
Took my 2004 TL transmission filter cover off and there was no spring or filter installed. I have owned car since 30k miles and I am the only one who touched the transmission since. My only guess is that the filter was never installed at the factory (by accident or by choice) or there was a recall before I owned it that removed the filter to avoid some problem. I'm going to assume that not having the filter was intentional, to avoid new problems. I have 164k miles on car and added the external magnefine filter at 87k (along with multiple switch and Redline mix changes, which worked) and will continue to live without stock filter. @164k
Has anyone else seen the filter missing issue and understand why filter is not used?
Continue to have shudder issue even after switch and fluid changes, for the last 30k? miles. Changing fluid makes shudder go away for a short while but returns.
Took my 2004 TL transmission filter cover off and there was no spring or filter installed. I have owned car since 30k miles and I am the only one who touched the transmission since. My only guess is that the filter was never installed at the factory (by accident or by choice) or there was a recall before I owned it that removed the filter to avoid some problem. I'm going to assume that not having the filter was intentional, to avoid new problems. I have 164k miles on car and added the external magnefine filter at 87k (along with multiple switch and Redline mix changes, which worked) and will continue to live without stock filter. @164k
Has anyone else seen the filter missing issue and understand why filter is not used?
Continue to have shudder issue even after switch and fluid changes, for the last 30k? miles. Changing fluid makes shudder go away for a short while but returns.
That's crazy, I've never heard of the filter being completely missing, but I suppose nothing is impossible. Probably good that you added the extra filter at some point....but there is still non-metallic debris that is flowing through the trans fluid lines that the stock filter typically picks up. Regardless of that, you are going to want to change your 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches. I had the exact same symptoms with the "shudder" and it went away when I changed the original switches out at 155k. I'm now at 220k and shifting perfect still. There's multiple resources here on what you need and how to do it. It's a pretty easy job, you just need a specific deep socket for it.
That's crazy, I've never heard of the filter being completely missing, but I suppose nothing is impossible. Probably good that you added the extra filter at some point....but there is still non-metallic debris that is flowing through the trans fluid lines that the stock filter typically picks up. Regardless of that, you are going to want to change your 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches. I had the exact same symptoms with the "shudder" and it went away when I changed the original switches out at 155k. I'm now at 220k and shifting perfect still. There's multiple resources here on what you need and how to do it. It's a pretty easy job, you just need a specific deep socket for it.
I have changed the 3/4 switches at 87,000, which fixed shudder and then at 130,000 because shudder reappeared and it did not fix problem. I could feel no improvement at all. I feel it more often and more severe recently so will change the ATF soon. I do not feel shudder when transmission is cold though. I manually shift and use 3rd as little as possible to avoid shudder. My wife just gives car a little more throttle (I hope) to stop shudder but is not interested in manually shifting.
I do not recommend anyone removing the stock filter, even if magnefine is added. I would think that stock filter would filter at a point closer to critical components. Magnefine add on maybe filtering before ATF goes to pan--I really do not know...
Shudder is almost like a minor engine miss and would estimate this cycles about 5 times a second. I feel it at lighter throttle position. When it first started is was very hard to feel.
Last edited by Timthetoolman; 11-15-2019 at 09:01 PM.
I am using Redline 1 R, 1 LWR, .5 D4 and .5 D6, plus .1 D4 or D6. This is likely different ratios than others use. This produces a viscosity between Z1 and DW1--about 6.9 @100F. Other calculations, at least years ago, assumed that mixing the various AFT caused linear changes in viscosity. This site calculates more accurately. This is not important but just what I did to come up with ratios. https://widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html
And it looks like the total is 4 quarts as you have listed, correct?
1 drain and fill is 3 quarts, not 4.
And If those abbreviations are racing fluid, that is too much racing fluid, even if that is 4 quarts.
1 drain and fill, only removes a portion of the fluid. It takes like 10 drain and fills, of 3 quarts each, to get close to a full flush. So even if you do this single drain and fill,, you will still have a bunch of old fluid in there, which is likely too heavy on RTF. So you wont have much impact on your efforts
So if my assumptions are true, the I would drop the ETF altogether, use D4 only, or dw1 only.. and do it 3x3 times. And reinspect
So if my assumptions are true, then I would drop the RTF altogether, ... At least until you have the "majority" of the fluid as being D4. I think some people thump the OE DW1 moreso than the D4, but I like the D4... Still, for you, in your condition of being heavy on the RTF, I think you need to change the mixture back toward OE, so it doesnt matter which one you use, D4 or DW1. You just have too much RTF. It will mess with your car bigtime!! I have done it..
I would do at least 3 of the 3 quart drain and fills of only D4... or if you prefer, DW1 + D4. (I would wait a few days of driving, between each drain and fill) So this process may take a week or 2 to complete. Then check for shuddering again. If the problem persists, you may have bigger problems internal. But odds are, you have the wrong fluid. And you wont be able to tell more about the condition of your transmission until you blend the fluid back closer to OE standards. Still, I would not go completely DW1. But not completely RTF. But I see you have WAY too much RTF. If the system holds 9 or 10 quarts of fluid, I would not want more than 2 quarts of RTF total. So that would be 8 quarts of DW1 (or D4) and 2 quarts of RTF. But that is all. Max 3 quarts of RTF in the system. But you have more like 70% RTF , rather than 25% to 33%
I just realized your numbers 3.1 quarts.. So yes, you are more like 66% RTF.. That's way too much. You need to pull it down drastically and as fast as you can. So, I would go ALL D4 or (dw1) until you blend out some RTF
So if my assumptions are true, then I would drop the RTF altogether, ... At least until you have the "majority" of the fluid as being D4. I think some people thump the OE DW1 moreso than the D4, but I like the D4... Still, for you, in your condition of being heavy on the RTF, I think you need to change the mixture back toward OE, so it doesnt matter which one you use, D4 or DW1. You just have too much RTF. It will mess with your car bigtime!! I have done it..
I would do at least 3 of the 3 quart drain and fills of only D4... or if you prefer, DW1 + D4. (I would wait a few days of driving, between each drain and fill) So this process may take a week or 2 to complete. Then check for shuddering again. If the problem persists, you may have bigger problems internal. But odds are, you have the wrong fluid. And you wont be able to tell more about the condition of your transmission until you blend the fluid back closer to OE standards. Still, I would not go completely DW1. But not completely RTF. But I see you have WAY too much RTF. If the system holds 9 or 10 quarts of fluid, I would not want more than 2 quarts of RTF total. So that would be 8 quarts of DW1 (or D4) and 2 quarts of RTF. But that is all. Max 3 quarts of RTF in the system. But you have more like 70% RTF , rather than 25% to 33%
I just realized your numbers 3.1 quarts.. So yes, you are more like 66% RTF.. That's way too much. You need to pull it down drastically and as fast as you can. So, I would go ALL D4 or (dw1) until you blend out some RTF
Has recommended ATF mix for 3G TL changed on Acurazine from years ago, which was equal parts D4, LWR, R? I believe this started with "I Hate Cars" and Inaccurate and included the pressure switches. Title was something like discussion I had with my transmission builder....can you reference some links so I get up to speed? I did not have much luck with the searches I did.
I cannot reference what other people say. I can only tell you what I think is true, and have experienced. Some people say do not use RTF at all. Some people say do not use redline. Some say go complete OEM with DW1.
So, what then. ? All I can say is what I think. And I think you have too much Racing fluid in it. So I would take the largest steps possible back to "normal". With normal being D4 or DW1.
I cannot reference what other people say. I can only tell you what I think is true, and have experienced. Some people say do not use RTF at all. Some people say do not use redline. Some say go complete OEM with DW1.
So, what then. ? All I can say is what I think. And I think you have too much Racing fluid in it. So I would take the largest steps possible back to "normal". With normal being D4 or DW1.
I really appreciate your thoughtful recommendations and you maybe correct. Are you familiar with the posts that I mentioned, which had 10s of thousands (possibly over 100k) of conversations before and years after 2008. Doing some searches I can't find the old recommendations and see more traditional approach. I need to do more searching and if anyone can point history or explanation for the change, that would be great.
I use stock fluid on my 2014 MDX and closely follow factory maintenance but have fluid analysis done on engine, transmission, transfer case and differential to verify all is well since I tow3400 pound TT 2/3rds of the time. The change from Acura TL recommendations started when I first had shudder problems in about 2008.
I have seen many discussions fly around. My personal opinion is that some RTF is good. Like approximately 2 quarts out of the full system which is 9 or 10 quarts, I do not remember the full capacity off hand.
As far as shudder before you made any changes... Old fluid may cause shifting problems too. I would start over, blend back OEM or D4 and skip the RTF. Then if problems persist, you know you have other transmission problems.
I assume you have not added a transmission fluid radiator/cooler , correct?
by the way, I would blend back "toward" OEM using D4 or Dw1, by doing at least 2 , 3 quart drain and fills. Maybe 3. There will still be some RTF left in your transmission. because as I said, it takes many like 10 drain & fills to do a full flush. But you probably do not need to do that many. Some RTF will not hurt. But if you are over 50% RTF, that is the danger zone. So, you need to walk it back using no mixtures.. just pure D4 or pure DW1, by doing the 3 quart drain & fills at least twice. If you like the results, then do it a 3rd time. By the way, I have already helped 1 or 2 people fix some problems they were having by using too much RTF. Its posted somewhere.
1 last thing to do is make sure the Flow on that external filter is adequate for the TL. And I have no idea what the OEM filter will flow, or what the system flows when the OE filter is dirty, BUT if that external filter has too much resistance, it could restrict flow and cause problems. And for that same reason, I am not installing an External filter or an external cooler on my car. The tubing from the back of the transmission to the filter cap is very small. I am hesitant to increase that length to the front of the car and zig-zagging through a new cooler and then back to the filter cap without adding a lot of resistance. If you inspect the Type-S cooler, it is Much larger, and the feeder tubes are much larger, and the distance from the radiator to the place where the feeder tubes connect to the transmission is much closer. The bigger tubes and shorter distance reduces resistance in the system. So, I am not comfortable with taking a chance on modifying it, since I already have 100k miles. The system works fine. I think the TypeS added the cooler for those who are racing the vehicle more, and since the typeS had a slighter larger motor. Or at least the combustion chamber is larger, so there may be more heat generated. All those combined might be why they choose to add a cooler on the transmission. But they did it from the factory. And it is designed that way with the things I mentioned in mind. Adding 1 to the Base TL may be perfectly ok.. But it's not needed from my point of view. Anyway, I would be curious about that external filter. And that reminds me.. Acura does not have a recommendation to swap out that OE filter. On the 2007/8, its even totally impossible to swap it out. I suspect if it gets clogged, then the spring action will just allow fluid to flow around the filter entirely. So maybe the system can work safely under higher pressure? I don't know.. Either way, my filter has never been changed and I have 100k miles. Maybe it will help to change it.. maybe it won't? Do we even need an external filter if Acura has not recommendation to change the OE filter? Seems odd. nothing really jibes. So I am just guessing at how "pressurized" the transmission fluid system is... Something to think about though..
If you think about electricity, the further you want to carry 60 amps, the thicker the cable has to be.. The cable is like a fluid carrying tube. Just being longer and the same size, it will add resistance.. That's why in electricity, they go up a few gauges in cable size to "go the distance". 60 amps can run to another device 5 feet away with a smaller cable, but to go 100 feet, you will need a larger cable because of the loss. That might be why Acura installed such large tubes on the TypeS external cooler... But I am ony guessing again, because I have no idea about the difference in the Fluid PUMPs are between the TypeS and the Base TL. If both pumps are the same, then it could be a big problem installing an external cooler, with such small feeder tubes, so far away from the back of the transmission, all the way to the front of the car by the rad and then back again to the filter cap.. Too risky.. and not enough knowledge about the system.. AND I see a ton of ideas on Acurazine that may not be good. Some of which I should have never listened to.. So, I'm going to pass on this one!! haha
If you want to leave the external filter installed, then I am guessing it will be ok since you have gone so long... but I would not install the OE filter. If I was going to go with external, then I would leave it the way you have it.. that is, leave out the OE filter.
By the way, I have already helped 1 or 2 people fix some problems they were having by using too much RTF. Its posted somewhere.
Do you remember if the problems that they had were related to shudder?
I fully understand the drain and fill methods, % replaced with each drain, plus how to get a desired ratio of fluids (have a spreadsheet...). I also understand your analogy using electrical formulas--they are the equivalent of mechanical formulas but with different variables.
As far as pressure drop due to hose length, line size, external coolers (I do not have and did not install after doing research and attaching measuring fluid temperatures while driving) and external filters, I fully understand this and do not disagree. The external filter was researched by Acurazine members. Past posters measured pressure and flow losses at different temperatures inside the system. If the fluid gets very hot as in a lot of long climbs flow rates drop very low.
I have gotten this thread too far off topic and will post a new one after doing more searches.
To be mostly confident with changes, few if anyone likely has the product or test data plus experience to come up with a solid conclusions. Someone may have come across the best know solution but it likely had to do with some luck.
Before I make a fluid change I need to do more research. Thanks. I'll should make a new post to see if and why the consensus has changed.
Last edited by Timthetoolman; 11-16-2019 at 08:55 PM.
I have a 2007 Acura to base sedan. I have to change out the transmission filter. Is it internal.
Yes, the filter for the 2007 is located inside the transmission housing. It is not a practical item to change. If you are trying to perform transmission maintenance, inspecting and changing the fluid would be where to start.
Yes, the filter for the 2007 is located inside the transmission housing. It is not a practical item to change. If you are trying to perform transmission maintenance, inspecting and changing the fluid would be where to start.
so I guess that I'm going to have the dealer do this filter replacement? Or can I do a transmission flush?
10-11-2015, 11:17 PM
