OntheJob

Well if you dont change your transmission oil at each oil change now, then you will after reading this thread.

-Buckle up people this is going to be a long thread, but should help based on my findings.

BACKGROUND: Daily driven TL-S, about 1k miles a month give or take, easily driven, but spiritedly during on ramp, off ramp, and around some city streets, never taken to the track at all.
-TRANSMISSION OIL CHANGED 3K MILES AGO, DURING THIS CHANGE I DID A 3X3 FLUSH "WITH Z-1", AND PUT IN ROYAL PURPLE ATF FOR ADDED PROTECTION OVER THE Z-1 AS THE FINAL FLUID.

-Today I put z-1 back in to pass a "certified acura" inspection test that will be done in the next few days, and the z-1 will come right back out after this inspection.

Ok people, I found a lot and I mean a lot and for further information "the same amount of metal shavings after my first trans fluid change after 45k miles" on the magnetic drain plug after only 3k miles of driving.

-as you all know exesessive tranny wear due to whatever reason "suspected culprits- switches, fluids, weak trans, combo of them all" has been a common issue with many TL trans as well as other Honda models. Now maybe part of my issue was the original 3x3 flush using the z-1 then adding the royal purple after the last drain, yes it was my first time, and I didnt know I should have flushed the 3x3 with royal purple all 3 times.

-However either way, the ATF that came out was clearly pink, not "purple" as the royal purple ATF was when putting it in so I clearly should have flushed it 3 times with the royal purple to get all the ATF out! I know I know...


MAIN POINT FOR DEBATE CONSIDERATION/RESEARCH:
No matter what trans oil you are using, no matter how you drive, I think with these findings especially with mostly z-1, after only 3k miles of driving, I feel it is IMPERATIVE to change your trans oil EACH AND EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU CHANGE YOUR ENGINE OIL, FOR THE EXTRA 30-40 IN COST, this is what we need to all be combating against.

-My thoughts are this is not good at all, I am sure many other TL owners are having the same issue however going the normal recommended intervals, coupled with these findings is disastrous.


-I will conduct these drains and fills each oil change, after the inspection this week I will do a 3x3 flush with d4 or type F, run it for 3k miles and drain at the next oil change to see if I can eliminate that MASSIVE amount of metal....
People this is not good, and is a sure sign of what is going on inside our trans with the z-1. I can only hope that d4 and or some other type of better fluid can eliminate this issue, please use this thread as a sign, learn from my findings... change your trans oil at each oil change until I conduct some more tests with alternative fluids to see if an "elimination of these findings" can be proved.

-What we learned here tonight, is no matter what fluid you are running, change it at every oil change.... I can only hope there is a fluid out there to remedy this.... if you are running z-1... PLEASE I BEG YOU.. CHANGE IT.... NOW!




THE BEGINNING


HERES WHAT I FIND BROKEN... WHO KNOWS HOW THIS HAPPENED, PROBABLY WHEN I USED TO HAVE MY OIL DONE BEFORE I LEARNED HOW:


QUICK INSPECTION... ALL GOOD:


WOW TIME FOR A NEW FILTER I KNOW, SCREW YOU DIRT:


OK NOW FOR THE SCARY PART, HERE IS WHAT I FIND ON THE PLUG AFTER ONLY 3K MILES OF DRIVING, EXCESSIVE YOU SAY? YOU BET!


WIPE TEST:


50/50 SHOT:


AND AGAIN THE HORROR.....


LOOK HOW CLEAN THE Z-1 IS, AND EVEN WITH SUCH FRESH FLUID, I HAVE THE FINDING I FOUND ON MY PLUG AFTER ONLY 3K MILES.... GOD HELP US ALL

Inaccurate

Looks like worn-away clutch material not metal. Worn metal usually appears as needles on the drain plug.

Either way, do a 3x3 with Redline Racing and you will no longer have anything on the drain plug.

OntheJob

Yeah I am interested in doing that, I am curious if the d4 will fix this issue without having to go to a full type F fluid.

Inaccurate

With D4, there will be no metal wear. However, the D4 will still allow some wear on the clutches. With the D4, there will still be the black sludge (worn away clutch material) on the drain plug, although significantly reduced from the Z1.

With RedLine Racing ATF, the drain plug will be stay clean. The RedLine Racing ATF prevents metal wear and prevents clutch wear.

01tl4tl

if you really want to know whats going on inside the trans you need a 4 ounce sample of the fluid taken during draining
Send it to blackstone labs or similar place for spectrographic analysis, approx 20-30 dollars
they will tell you whats in there and how it compares to other TLs and other cars

they can test any type fluid for you, engine oil-trans-coolant--there are signs of normal and abnormal wear in each of those
Beats guessing and worrying

I hate cars

Thanks for posting the pics. That's not too bad but for such a short interval it's not that good either.

As inaccurate said, only pure Type F will stop the wear. D4 will reduce it but not eliminate it. After seeing no wear after the first few drains and fills I'm leaving the last change in for the long haul.

OntheJob

No problem, I agree with what inaccurate stated, time to start looking at better fluids then z-1, I may just go straight to the type F to run the same interval test and get the results you guys are describing. either way I still can't believe the z-1 allows this much wear, who knows how much of that metal is still in the current fluids floating around that were not picked up by the completely covered plug :/

As far as testing the fluid sample as stated above i think that would be good for needs other then mine as a daily driver....I just like the minimalist approach, I have wear, ok let's find a fluid to stop it.

I know lots of guys who live by sending oil samples out, I just don't want to start making the rabbit hole that deep then I'll really be racking my brain. Ha!

Lazer187

iTrader: (1)

i see in IHC post that he is banned. is this really true? why in the world would that ban such a informative asset to this forum??

OntheJob

I'm just really glad I stumbled across this finding "although I'm sure others have" and actually posted it on here so others who were skeptical like me could see the proof.
-saving tranny's 1 thread at a time

LaCostaRacer

Thanks for posting this. I'm on the every 20K interval and have only changed my ATF once (have 36K miles now). I bought some Type-F and will use that next time. It will be interesting to see how much wear is on the plug. I remember my Pilot's plug had less wear the second time at 50K and that has had some heavy towing exposure.

I curious how Type-F fluid would risk a certified acura inspection or what this inspection is for even- is that for lease vehicles?

OntheJob

Just make sure you do a 3x3 flush with the type F fluid, dont 3x3 it with z-1 then add the type F, other wise you will have basically z-1 with a hint of Type F as I learned the hard way.

-Im not sure if an aftermarket fluid would void the inspection or not, I just didnt want to take the chance, and Honda is running a 2.9 percent special financing for 60 months if you certify your lease which gives it a slightly extended warranty and the ability to say your car is "certified pre owned", the certification process includes a very thorough inspection, hence why I didnt want to take the chance with any fluid not the shade of red as the z-1 is...Funny part is I ended up not even buying or doing the inspection/certification warranty because I plan on modding the car and any mod will be used as an excuse to void the warranty from what I have been told by the sales manager, I still have to go back on monday to speak with the service manager about this and see if I can get something in writing, so I ended up with a 3.7 percent.... not to shabby for a used car loan I called lots of banks and cheapest around is 6-7 percent.

01tl4tl

sales managers are full of it
BY LAW they have to PROVE the mod is directly related to the failure
which is few and far between

acura employees are trained to get you to buy everything from them- do all maitenance there etc
Sales depts exist mainly to provide service dept with a constant supply of cars to work on--the real money maker at the dealerships

lowered cars and cv joint failiure- there is a direct connection there
but
intake manifold spacer and trans fails...not related~

OntheJob

Oh I agree with you, I am meeting with the service manager on Monday to speak with him directly about it...

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

I had some overheating problems with my tranny right after I bought the car, I changed the trans fluid and the crap that was in there was blacker that engine oil, I guess the assholes who owned it before didnt take care of it at all. Now that its had a 3x3 and another 2x2 done with redline d4 and racing fluids its perfectly fine. When I did the 2x2 a couple weeks after the 3x3 there was nothing at all on the magnet.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah I almost forgot that I put the magnefine in there too, that probably had a lot to do with it... haha

OntheJob

Magnefine? explain if you can.

DUHockey9

I apologize for the noob question in advance but, when you say you are seeing metal on the plug, is this the drain plug for the ATF? It just looks dirty to me in that picture. I just want to know what I should be looking for when I change mine.

OntheJob

yes that is the ATF drain plug, and if you look closely at the pics you can see the fine metal, if you find this make sure you wipe it clean before re-install.

optical24

I was wondering how much quarts (bottles) of Redline D4 ATF needed to do a 3x3 flush? I'm planning to do it when the weather gets warmer.

OntheJob

3 times 3 =9

plus additional 3 quarts for the final fluid being installed. so 12

DUHockey9

Wouldn't that then by a 4x3?

I thought it was drain, fill, drain, fill, drain, fill, done.

OntheJob

hmmm I could be wrong... I am thinking 1-drain/fill, 2-drain/fill, 3-drain/fill.. thats the "third" and am under the impression we drain the third batch of fluid after running it for a bit to put in the final fresh fluid which technically would be the 4th time adding 3 quarts.... but then again I could be wrong.. I am sure someone will chime in..

FYI above is what I did... may be over kill but at least I know its fresh

leedogg

Here's the exact 3x3 process from Honda's service bulletin

A08010A.pdf

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

He gets banned because of stupid people that don't know how to defend there arguments. I'm on these boards to learn from people like him (add Innac and Opel). They really make the 3G TL of AZ without them we'd still be talking about oil changes. Petition to get him unbanned ASAP!

Nonetheless, good findings. 3x3 with Racing is on top of my list and should be done within the month!

Dan000

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I also come to Azine for info from people like him. Please unban IHC.

DUHockey9

Count me in as another hoping for an unban.

BLACKURA_NY

iTrader: (6)

i dont think he's really banned... usually real bans show up in bold spaced letters like B A N N E D

I hate cars

Thanks a lot guys. Champ, couldn't agree more.

To the others, come on, a 3x3 is exactly what it says. 9 quarts. I go away for a while and people start redefining the most basic stuff.

leedogg

Welcome back, and quit letting all the donkey's in the world get you all worked up

OntheJob

Ok cool thanks for clearing that up... will save my 3 quarts next time

Majofo

Somebody has a man crush on you..

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803068

Glad you're back! I don't know the history between you & nfn but hopefully the issue ended there.