gogators22

nevermind, amsoil's site is back up. I went with 3 quarts of the supershift.

gwiffer

iTrader: (7)

I saw the chart showing the percentage of new fluid in the trans after each refilling...is it possible that shudder will appear after removing all of the remaining FM from the original Z1?

Are the reports of NO SHUDDER only from people doing the standard 3x3, which leaves ~21% Z1 and its FM still in the trans?

sleeper22

I just got off the phone with a local mechanic who is going to flush my tranny next week and use Amsoil. He basically said he flushes the tranny with around 20 quarts of fluid and gets all of the old fluid out (including coolent line) and replaces with Amsoil. The main reason our trannies fail is the varnish buildup from the breakdown of the factory fluid. He also said the pressure switches should not need replacing if the tranny fluid is changed out in a reasonable time or before it starts shifting rougher or noticeably different.

Its gonna cost $150 but overall its worth it. My car has 74K miles and still shifts good. His wife had a 07 and he seems to know the quirks of Honda trannys quite well.

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

^change the sensors.

I hate cars

He's dead wrong. Replace the switches as The Champ said. The switches get out of calibration over time. They rarely suffer from any sort of build up, it's deterioration of the switch caused by heat and time only.

sleeper22

How much are the switches? So is the flush recommended regardless???

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I just looked up the switches for my 03 Accord V6 5AT. Are they easy to replace? I have 100,500 miles and even though my tranny has been great to me I want to replace the switches! Any extra help or info would be greatly appreciated!

28600-RAY-003 SWITCH ASSY., AT OIL PRESSURE (TEXAS INSTRUMENTS) $32.26
28610-RAY-003 SWITCH ASSY., AT OIL PRESSURE (TEXAS INSTRUMENTS) $32.26

Quoted from Honda parts unlimited. I believe it is the same part number as the TL 5AT.

I hate cars

The only "flush" that's acceptable is the cooler line method where the engine pushes the old fluid out. If you have a Type-S you have cooler lines. If you have a base, no cooler lines. No "power" flushes or machine flushes are allowed.

sleeper22

I don't have a Type S and yes he did mention cooler lines which pushes the fluid out. I asked him about power flushes and he said its ok because they run a chemical (can't remember the name) and it cleans and then they run tranny fluid through and fill.

I hate cars

Stay far, far away from this guy. Not acceptable in the Honda 5at. You don't have cooler lines anyway so just stick with the standard drain and refill procedure.

sleeper22

OK thank you.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

Just ordered the switches plus the 10mm washer gaskets for the switches. Came to 85 bucks including overnight shipping and tax. Not to shabby!

sleeper22

I hate to ask this question but why isn't a flush recommended?

sleeper22

OK I am not trying to start a war here but the dealer called me back because I was curious to what Acura had to say. The manual according to the service tech says to perform a "flush" at around 40K miles and every 30K thereafter. He said it is a sealed transmission and the ONLY way to get all of the old fluid out is flush it and recirculate new fluid and make sure it filled to proper level. Its not like the old trannys where you drop the pan and change filter, etc...The service tech said also the only way to get any debris if any is in the torque converter is by a flush. To be honest it makes sense so please fill me in why you do NOT flush. Trust me I am not trying to open a can of worms only trying to do whats best for my car.

I hate cars

Acura Corporate's stance on flushes is it's a no-no. It also states in the manual not to use a machine to flush the trans. I'm not one that follows the manual word for word but it's proof that your dealer is doing whatever they want, not what Acura suggests.

Fluid flow in the trans goes from the pickup to the pump and valvebody, to the convertor to the cooler and back into the trans, usually some is dumped into the "pan" and some is used for lube. Debris that the filter does not catch is constantly circulated through the trans. Doing a drain and refill gets rid of any debris setting there whether it's from the torque convertor or whatever. It sounds like this "tech" needs to look at a basic fluid flow diagram.

The easiest and quickest way to get new fluid is through a flush. It takes a lot of drains and refills to get close to 100% new fluid since you will be mixing old with new between each change but in the end new fluid is new fluid. The pan and torque convertor will both have the same new fluid.

A flush doing a drain and fill and then starting the engine with one of the cooler lines removed (which you do not have) and placed in a bucket is perfectly fine and actually preferred. It requires less fluid and time. But using a machine and running a solvent through it as it sounds like they're doing can damage the trans. You're putting a harsh solvent in places that aren't made for solvents, you're breaking stuff free quickly in bigger pieces that will quickly plug off some of the tiny passages and valves in the transmission. Search around, there have been failures shortly after this kind of flush was done. You'll learn over time that the typical "tech" doesn't know jack about transmissions.

sleeper22

Your point is taken. No flushes just drain and refill. Thanks for the in depth response IHC

sleeper22

He told me he is an Amsoil dealer now and did mention a cleanser. I looked it up and Amsoil does make a engine and transmission flush or cleaning agent. Have you seen it?

sleeper22

FYI...I called the dealer that did the majority of the service work on my car before I bought it. The tranny fluid was never changed but I asked him what he thought about flushes. He did NOT recommend them and said Acura didn't either. I know a lot of you already know this but I was hearing conflicting stories from dealers and mechanics.

I hate cars

I think part of the reason for conflicting stories is the definition of a flush is not stated or known. I highly recommend a "flush" in the sense of disconnecting one of the cooler lines (if applicable), starting the engine, and letting it pump out the old fluid as you add new fluid. It's quicker and takes far less fluid to get nearly 100% new fluid.

It's the "power flush" that's bad. You don't want a machine forcing fluid through the trans with the engine off.

I rarely follow the rules especially when it comes to Acura's transmission recommendations but staying away from a power flush is a good idea. So is staying away from any solvents.

Now if the guy wants to sell you Amsoil, particularly the Super Shift, that would work very well.

sleeper22

Thanks IHC...No solvents and no power flush. Not sure how he can flush if I have no coolant line other than the typical drain and refill. I was wondering myself about the definition or lack of definition of a flush. I had a 2000 Infiniti I30t a few years ago and had the tranny flushed. It worked properly afterwards but just felt different. I honestly liked the way it shifted before the flush. It seemed smoother and the shifts were more seemless and less noticeable. It kind of puzzled me why because you would think it would perform better.

chayos00

I know the base TL isn't supposed to have a tranny cooler on it, but was are # 6 & 7 going to on here. I would go trace it out, but my wife is at work tonight and has the car. Not sure if this will link to the pic or not.

I hate cars

The only external rubber lines on the '04-'06 base models is a straight section toward the firewall about 6" long. This is where I tapped in for my external cooler on mine. I removed the rubber line, installed my own 3/8" rubber line from the trans to the cooler and back. Very easy to do. Threw a magnefine filter inline and removed the stock filter completely.

I've never looked at the '07-'08 base models. I've just taken everyone's word for it that it has no external cooler.

FYI, all the 5ats have a water to atf heat exchanger but the TL-S has an external air to atf cooler in addition.

If #6 and 7 were near the firewall, this would be where you tap in for the external cooler.

chayos00

I will have to look again, when I get a chance and snap a few pics, as I plan on doing another D&F and an oil change and tire rotation. So I will be up on jacks on all 4 corners.

The spot where these lines are is towards the front of the engine bay going towards the radiator area. I wasn't able to follow the lines as i didn't have a working flashlight at the time. But if memory serves me right, they are on the same side as the drain plug and just a tad forward of it. Maybe I'll have to pop the line off when I do my drain and see what comes out.

I'll post a pic of it when i get the chance.

I hate cars

It's very possible the '07-'08 TLs have an external cooler. If you're seeing rubber lines toward the front of the car, chances are they're to the external cooler. There's always the chance that Acura decided to run the transmission fluid to a radiator cooler (water to atf same as the early models but with the heat exchanger inside of the radiator) instead of running water to the transmission with a small heat exchanger on top.

badboy68

iTrader: (1)

i say neither, ive been using royal purple synthetic, w/ no problems, if not better, i mean, this is hawaii, not like the weather changes here very often

I hate cars

You have a lot of reading to do. RP trans fluid sucks. On what basis would you say it's better?

MistaWet

This is great information all! I have a 04 TL auto with 115K on it. I just bought it and the previous owner was very meticulous about the maintenance and up keep of the vehicle. He told me he only had Acura do the work on the vehicle and all of his receipts support his claims as well as a +180 on the carfax.

Saying that, I am concerned about switching out the ATF because of the mileage of the vehicle. All though I feel it is in great shape I would like to know if you guys see cars with over 100K on the dial as good candidates for an ATF switch?

Tks

umakemekissu

if previous owner never changed it, I'd say go ahead and do it now. many people
do it around 60-70k.

MistaWet

So you believe my vehicle with 115K miles is ok for a ATF switch? I was tempted to just go with the OEM fluid but after reading this thread I want to try the Redline ATF Type F. Just wanna make sure my mileage isn't a reason to not go forward. Any more feedback will be greatly appreciated. I want to do this switch this week.

DUHockey9

I might recommend the following process if you plan to do an ATF switch. It's longer and more tedious, but very thorough. A couple people had tranny issues but it was impossible to link it to the pressure switches, fresh fluid, or switching to a different fluid altogether.

1) Switch out your 3rd and 4th gear pressure switches. Drive it for a few hundred miles. Assuming no issues, you can proceed.
2) Put in some fresh Honda fluid. Drive it for a few hundred miles. Assuming no issues, proceed.
3) Perform your 3X3 with Redline Racing. (you can do it gradually, if you want to be cautious.)

I personally just immediately did a 3X3 of Redline Racing at 80k and I've had no issues. But this method will entirely isolate all 3 of the variables, and ensure you're ready to proceed.

There's a thread out there somewhere where I posted this.

MistaWet

Tks a ton DuHockey! I appreciate you giving me a process to follow. Just ordered the Pressure Switches. In regards to the ATF, I should do a simple 1x1 drain and fill with the Honda ATF? Drive for a few hundred miles and then go for the 3x3 Redline Racing drain and fill?

If I'm understanding correctly then it sounds like a plan.

Thanks again.

I hate cars

Nice post. I fully agree now that people tend to play the blame game and not only that it's usually better to change one thing at a time as long as you have the time to do it.

Switches, drive for a while. Z1, drive for a while. Then do the Redline Racing.

I hate cars

The switches and Racing ATF do nothing but extend the life of the transmission. There's absolutely nothing wrong with doing the switches and racing ATF all at once. However, some people have installed the switches in the wrong place and changed the fluid at the same time. Sometimes fresh fluid can cause problems especially in high mileage transmissions that have never had the fluid changed. They did not know what caused the bad shifting since two things were done at once and usually the non Honda fluid gets the blame.

At 100,000 miles with no fluid change it's highly recommended to do a single drain and fill and drive it for a thousand miles or so. It's not the type of ATF that will hurt the trans, it's the fact that it's new with new detergents that will start cleaning. Sometimes debris gets knocked loose and a failure is the result. The best way to stop this is a single drain and fill so you only have 50% new fluid instead of 80% or higher new fluid. With it diluted, the cleaning will not be as harsh. Let it clean gradually and then do another drain and fill.

DUHockey9

Yep that was my suggestion.

The reason I say that is because a couple people were experiencing tranny issues but it was impossible to tell what was the culprit. A few people on the boards have suggested that at higher mileage, some trannys are actually being held together by old, used ATF. If that is truly the case, then putting in fresh fluid (of any kind) would technically result in problems.

Some people went straight to Redline, but never did the switches, or perhaps even installed the switches backwards. So again, it was tough to pinpoint the issue.

That's why I suggested doing it in those 3 steps. Confirm the switches are working for you. Then throw in some fresh new honda fluid (or whatever it is that you are using currently. That way you can confirm your tranny is holding up with fresh ATF. Then you can proceed with a 3X3 of Redline.

At 115k I might do the 3X3 over several weeks just to ease the tranny into the new ATF.

IMO doing all of this would be a VERY thorough transition, and should you experience any issues along the way, you will know EXACTLY why.

I don't mean to scare you by saying this. There are MANY of us that just threw a 3X3 of Redline racing in without issue (myself included. I didn't even do my switches until a month later). I only suggest this because a couple people did have issues, and this is a surefire way of identifying a culprit, if necessary. Unless you have some underlying tranny issue already, you should be perfectly fine!

MistaWet

I've already ordered what I need to get this done. I am sooo pumped! Tks a ton and I will report back my findings.

SatinSilverAV6

iTrader: (2)

I am installing the pressure switches this morning with a amsoil drain and refil. I have changed the tranny fluid every 15K since I bought the car new so I am excited to see the results with the new switches!

sleeper22

I Hate Cars here is an update:

I talked to the mechanic again today and told him that I wanted to do the 3 by 3 method. He said whatever makes you comfortable and doesn't blame me. He did say he flushed his wifes TL with no problems but he did say "flush" can have different meanings like you and I discussed. He said the regular TL does have a tranny cooler thats hooks into the radiator and that is how he does it. Hers was an 07 so maybe the newer ones have the cooler. He doesn't use a machine just circulates about 20 quarts of fluid through it. Thats what cost so damn much is buying those extra quarts at $7. I'm going to do it a step at a time and then later change pressure switches.

tehloxely

What does a 3x3 flush mean?

MistaWet

As per Acurazine Member Sodaluvr

"Some A/T repair procedures call for flushing the trans using Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1 (and no
substitutes). Problem is, where do you find the info to do that? It’s not listed in the S/Ms and if you do an
ISIS search, you’ll find a few ServiceNews articles on this subject, but they’re rather dated, and none of
them say the same thing.

NOTE: The term “flushing” refers to repeatedly draining and refilling the trans with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Don’t confuse it with aftermarket flush systems. American Honda still strongly recommends that you avoid using them on any Acura vehicle. The original procedure was written for simpler A/Ts that readily upshifted when you ran the vehicle on a lift. But A/Ts have come a long way since then, and most of the newer ones balk at shifting past 2nd gear when on a lift, unless you work the shift lever a certain way. In light of all this, we thought it was high time that the A/T flushing procedure got a facelift. So here’s the latest word on flushing that works for all A/Ts:

1. Set the parking brake, and raise the vehicle on a lift.
2. Drain the trans, and refill it with Acura Precision Crafted ATF-Z1. Refer to the applicable S/M or to ISIS
for details.
3. Start the engine, shift into Drive, and release the parking brake.
4. Push down on the accelerator pedal to raise the vehicle speed to 2,500 rpm.
• If the trans shifts past 2nd gear, go to step 5.
• If the trans won’t shift past 2nd gear, keep the engine speed at 2,500 rpm and shift from Drive to
Neutral and back to Drive. Then go to step 5.
5. Make sure that the trans shifts through all the forward gears and goes into torque converter lockup.
6. Let off the accelerator pedal, and press the brake pedal to drop the vehicle speed to zero. Shift into
Reverse and then into Neutral.
7. Shift into Drive, and repeat steps 4 thru 6 four more times.
8. Set the parking brake, and repeat steps 2 thru 6 two more times.
9. Drain the trans, and reinstall the drain plug with a new sealing washer.
10. Refill the A/T with ATF-Z1."

The 3x3 flush is reflected in lines 7-10

tehloxely

Awesome information MistaWet. Will Acura do this, if you bring it to them?