Inaccurate

A-110: DIY Guide to replacing 3rd & 4th gear pressure switch for 3G TL (2004-2006) (click here)

odehboy

lol? wtf

Chad05TL

With 2 D4 changes then after than I did 2 racing fluid changes.

And it definately changes the response characteristics of the car with racing fluid. When I get on it now, it doesnt take nearly as long to "think about it". Like if you are cruising along, then then nail it, it quickly down shifts and gets on it quickly. Before, I used to have to get on it in advance of when I wanted it to go. So the response time is definately much less. And now it hits a higher gear when I do get on it. Before, it would not hit that top gear if I nailed it.

I changed the fuild twice with D4 and then twice with the racing fluid. I would have stopped at just once with the racing fluid and with D4 at 2 times before, but the 3rd time I did it, I forgot to put the washer on the drain plug. And I wasnt about to do the fluid change again, or the capture then placing it back in, so I just ran another week, with no washer, and changed it finally for the forth time. I kept an eye on it incase it leaked. It didn't. But for me, I think I like the 3rd time a bit better than the forth because my transmission has a natural hard 3rd gear shift. The hard shifting is a defect, but it was masked a bit better with the 2 D4 and then 1 racing fuild change at the end. But I suspect over time it will eventually smooth out more as the fluid gets older and allows for some slipping. At least I think that is the way its going to work. But anyway, for most people that want high performance, and you don't have a hard 3rd gear shift, then I would say go with the racing fluid.
But If you want to play it conservative and you ahve a few extra bux, do like I did. Change with D4 once or twice, then hit it with the racing stuff at the end. And if you like it, then change it again with racing fluid. See, the reason why I say that, is because changing the fluid by draining the pan, does not empty the whole system. The pan hold about 3 quarters. And the whole system hold probably 8 or 9 or so. So, when you change it once, you are only MIXING the old and the new. So, when you change it 2 or 3 times, you eventually get out more and more of the old fluid but still not all. The proper way is to have it pumped out with a professional tool. And even though I changed mine 4 times, I still probably have some old fluid running around in there somewhere. If I went to a shop and had them pump out the old and insert new, I would lean even more toward the D4 for my particular car. Because I have that issue, and plus a shop would be able to get out more of the old stuff with a pump. So, I would have even more of an issue had I gotton all of the original fluid out. Now, the transmission does eventually learn again to not shift so hard, but it only learns so much. And str8 Racing fluid will cause it to go beyond its learning capability and basically the end result is that it shifts quicker and subsequently a bit harder. With only D4, after the first 2 changes, the transmission readjusted both times and eventally, it smoothed back out,(for the most part). But the 2nd racing fluid change, it has not relearned enough to where it has smoothed back out. So, for some maybe thats what you want. And for me, i dont have any problem with it, but if I had my choice I would have stayed at 2 D4 and 1 racing fluid at the end. However, I did notice it downshifting to that higher gear easier with the 2nd racing fluid change. So, its a toss up in some regard to me, if I like more racing fluid or more D4. I think it depends on your driving habits, desires and if you have any issues with your car. And I'm still getting a double bump when I go from reverse to drive. The double bump subsided when I did the 2 D4 and 1 racing fluid, but when I went one more with racing fluid, it made the double bump a bit worse. But if the engine is hot I dont notice it much at all. Only when I just start the car or if its been sitting around an hour or so. But again, the better downshifting is worth something. So I have mixed feelings about whether I should have stopped at 2 D4 and 1 racing or not. I think most people would want a bit more extreme than that though.

Oh one last thing, when I driv eon the highway now, at a casual pace, the transmission doesnt slip out or "up" so easy... unless of course I nail then its all the way up! So I like it to stay synchronized while driving at a casual pace. The engine has a tendoncy to grunt a little as you ease into the pedal.

Hacura

I recently did a 3x3 with the D4 as well. Cleaner and quicker shifts overall. I'll add some racing fluid next time. My 3rd gear is a little funny also. It almost feels like it's shifting twice or taking longer to single shift and jerks. Is that what the pressure switches are for?

Chad05TL

My 3rd gear, when its not very hot yet, and under light acceleration or just crusing along, it will slam it into 3rd. There is no jerking really, or shifting twice while I am moving. I just feel 2 bumps when switching from park or reverse to Drive.

Hacura

I tested it today and under acceleration there is no problem. It's only under light cruising when I accelerate and then let off the gas it seems to down shift or something.

DUHockey9

So I've been researching ATF fluid change as I got my TL a couple months ago, with 74k miles on it. I've got what might be a silly question but this is my first car (that I've purchased) and I'm doing my best to learn to care of it.

So the 3X3 ATF change seems pretty simple. I think I will go with the Redline D4 ATF Fluid. Drain the ATF (should be 3 quarts), fill with 3 quarts of D4, drive the car through all the gears, and repeat 2 more times. However, the first 2 "fills" during the 3X3 process kind of seem like a waste. Would it make sense to use some lesser ATF fluid during those first 2 fills as it is just being taken right out anyway? Or is the high quality fluid still completely necessary in the change?

I'm assuming it's necessary to use the D4 for all 3, but I just thought I would ask. Thanks in advance.

I hate cars

Definately use the fluid you plan on using for every drain and fill. Using a cheap fluid for the first 2 means you have half cheap fluid in it when you put the good stuff in on the last drain and fill.

I would not bother with D4. There's too much evidence showing the Redline racing fluid is vastly superior in wear prevention and shift quality.

sddale

You have to use the good fluid for the entire 3x3. When you drain the pan you're only draining a portion of all the fluid in the trans. With each drain and fill you're mixing new fluid with the old putting a higher concentration of new to old fluid.

Inaccurate

DUHockey9,

Please read link below to learn why you need to use the the good stuff for all 3x3. Plus, sddale explained it good right above too.

The RR Journals: ATF drain and refill 3G Garage #C-012 (click here)


Please read the link below to see why we recommend the Redline Racing ATF versus the D4. For this link below, I recommend reading it backwards -- last page first and go backward.

Racing ATF (click here)

BukvaMan

I have a 2005 TL AT with only 30 000 miles and change.... Even thoe i think that there is nothing wrong with the transmission shifting, i do feel that lag when stepping on the gas when I do want to get going a little...sometimes i really have to press down to get it to downshift


I see all this posts that actually improve on things like that and such

is it recommended for me to do the 3x3 with Redline D4 even though it doesnt have that much mileage on ...

I hate cars

It's highly recommended that you use Redline Racing, not D4. The earlier you can get the "good stuff" in there, the less wear you will experience over the life of the trans. There's no reason this stuff shouldn't double the life of the trans especially if used from a low mileage.

BukvaMan

So 9qt of this one http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=52&pcid=9 ??

Inaccurate

Yes sir. Your link is the correct fluid to get.

9 quarts of RedLine Racing ATF (PN# 30304)

OntheJob

Have you researched and considered the Royal Purple products?

I hate cars

We've done a ton of research. RP does not offer the ester base oil that Redline does nor does it offer the film strength.

The TL needs a non FM fluid which the standard RP is not.

This would be the correct RP fluid if you're looking to get the least wear and best shifts:

http://www.royalpurple.com/racing-tr...-fluid-rh.html

I've personally not liked what I've seen when doing teardowns on RP engine oil. Maybe their transmission fluids are better. They do make one of the all time best engine oil filters which I run on the TL.

OntheJob

Can you explain/expand more on this, as I am not aware of these claims your making.

I hate cars

It's all right here (the FM part):

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764322

As for the film strength, it's from old data on tests done on some the leading ATF and gear oil products with RP included. Actually, the RP film strength is pretty good but the shear resistance sucks. I meant to say shear resistance, not shear strength in the last post. Their street fluids typically have a very low HTHS value for a performance oriented oil. This is how they squeeze an extra hp or two but it's at the expense of wear. I've torn down some 600-700hp BBC engines that ran RP and I was not impressed at all. Their street oils just don't hold up very well in extreme conditions. I personally know some guys that are sponsored by RP yet run Redline and Motul in the cars lol.

But again, their filters are excellent and I'm sure their "racing" (non FM, Type F) ATF would do fine in the TL.

OntheJob

Right and thanks, I see your point about the wear on racing engines, but your opinion cannot stand to say the wear on RACING ENGINES which are abused and put under abnormal stress and use is from the Royal Purple racing oil.

In order for that to hold you would need documented evidence supporting your association with wear and RP products.


Thanks for the info though, cheers.

I hate cars

I have evidence. The same engines when run on even Mobil One and Redline looked like new during teardown. Two times with two engines, the wear was unacceptable, not only in the rod and main bearing arena but lots of piston scuffing too. RP just could not handle it. The HTHS rating basically predicted this behavior beforehand but it was given a fair shot anyway.

Racing engine performance trickles down into street engine performance. It would take many, many more miles to see any appreciable wear in a street engine but if I'm going to pay that much for an oil, I'm going to get something that protects better than a $3/quart oil.

OntheJob

hmmm well def good food for thought, either way I put the oil and and the car feels nice and fresh again, and the shifting in the trans went from rough to as smooth as brand new if not better.

what other options do I have for the best trans fluid? Ill give that a shot next time and maybe can write a review.

Acc20yrs

Good info!! Good thread thinking on going redline racing on my 07 tl

I hate cars

Please don't take what I said the wrong way. RP trans fluid is 10x better than Z1. I would have no problems running it in my own car. I just believe that Redline has a slight advantage.

Regardless of which brand you use, the non FM "Type F" formula of each brand will offer much less wear.

It would be kind of neat to see a review of the RP trans fluid since not many people use it. Maybe even the "racing" RP fluid.

buchwheat

Hi there I'm new to this forum I live in toronto canada is it recommended to use redline racing atf in this kind of weather specially in the winter it could go down as far as -20 celcius. TIA

OntheJob

Thank you for that, I know your very passionate about your opinions as I have read, but be careful cause for a second there you had me thinking I put harmful fluids in the car.

Thanks for clearing that up, Im glad to know its still 10x better then z1.

I will right a review.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

I was having problems with my tranny overheating on the interstate when it was in 5th gear for a long time, I could actually see the rpm needle moving up without the speed increasing and feel it slipping. I put a external cooler on and that helped a little but it still does it barley. Im gonna get some Redline Racing fluid (found it here for $40 a gallon- http://www.sparktecmotorsports.com/rl-30305.html). Hopefully that will take care of the problem, it already overheated once on the interstate, I dont want it to happen again. Does anyone know of an easy way to hookup a trans temp gauge? I could just leave it in the engine bay???

Inaccurate

They have the Lightweight Racing too
(click here)

I hate cars

The only thing I'd worry about is he's already overheating the fluid. The extra viscosity of the normal Racing fluid would be a good thing until he sorts the problem out.

Does this only happen on the freeway? If so, there's a good chance the torque convertor clutch is not working. Once you get up to 55+mph and you're driving along steady state for a few seconds, give it just a little throttle. RPMs should not raise up at all. If they do, the TCC is not locking.

JRM3

I'm going with Redline D4, always used redline in my vehicles and never had issues.

I hate cars

Out of curiosity, why? With all of the info out there now, showing the racing fluid is far superior for wear reduction, why would you go with D4?

Chad05TL

I think if you do a complete vacuum of the old stuff then add the D4, your results will be better than what most people get with D4. I think part of the reason why so many like the Racing fluid is because "we" are mixing the new with the old. We do it several times to try and flood the system with new fluid, but 2 or 3 times of draining the pan and then refilling is not enough to remove all the old. Imagine 1 glass of water, and 1 glass of coffee. Empty the coffee 1/3 and fill with water. Then repeat that 3 times. And your coffee will still be murky. But even though this is about the friction qualities of both Racing Fluid Vs. D4, it’s still the same principle of never really reaching 100% new fluid. There is a rule in calculus called "approaching zero". And that means if you always take 1/2 or 1/3 of the distance to get to Zero, you will never get there. That's identical to mixing old fluid with new fluid.. do it once, twice, 3 times, 10 time or 20 times.. You may get close but never 100% new fluid. Plus if you change it 3 times, the cost is more than if you had taken to a shop. And draining the pan is about 1/3 of the entire contents of the system. Its about 3 quarts in the pan.

So, I say, you may get very good results, or maybe even as the same as racing fluid IF you do a complete 100% change to D4 at a professional shop that uses a machine to bleed out all the old stuff. The net result is like comparing a 100% D4 change with a mixture of 85% Racing fluid and 15% old Honda fluid. The net result may be similar.. (regarding friction characteristics) But as far as cleanliness, the 100% change will always be better.

Chad05TL

recap: think if you do a complete vacuum of the old stuff then add the D4, your results will be better than what most people get with D4, IF you do a 100% change of fluid and not mixing.

Schulminator

iTrader: (2)

I have a quick question:
With a 3x3 flush, do you flush & fill drive and repeat 3 times? Or just fill/drain?

BradE

Some people, myself included, aren't comfortable going with a fluid that isn't spec'ed as a compatible fluid. That is the the reason I went with D4, it's still a massive improvement over Z1, but it's also the recommended fluid by Redline for the application.

Just a personal preference really, but I was more comfortable going with D4.

BradE

Drain, refill, drive it, repeat, repeat.

Schulminator

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Brad, I thought so.

Inaccurate

Do you mean "asymptote"?

Here are the percentages below, calculated with basic math. Note that after 10 refills, the percentage of new fluid is 99.5%. This is close enough to round-off to 100% IMO.



IMPORTANT:
With each drain, we are left with 59.46% of what was in there beforehand.
For example, we drain 3 qts each time. The total capacity is 7.4 qts.
Therefore, 7.4 qts Capacity - 3 qts Drained = 4.4 qts Remaining inside transmission.
Thus, [4.4 qts Remaining inside transmission] DIVIDE BY [7.4 qts Capacity] = 59.46% of what was in there beforehand.

NOTE:
1) All units below are Quarts unless otherwise specified.
2) Z1 means Honda Z1 ATF
3) RR means Redline Racing ATF
4) These percentages are for the Base 5AT TL. The Type-S 5AT might differ.


CHANGE ONE
7.4 Z1 x 0.5946% = 4.4 Z1......................We start with trans full of Z1. After draining, 4.4 remain in the trans.
3 RR Added = 3 RR...................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
3.0 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 40% RR.................The overall mixture is now 40% RR and 60% Z1


CHANGE TWO
4.4 Z1 x 0.5946% = 2.616 Z1....................That original Z1 is now reduced to 2.616
3.0 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR....................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR...................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
4.784 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 65% RR...............The overall mixture is now 65% RR and 35% Z1


CHANGE THREE
2.616 Z1 x 0.5946% = 1.555 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 1.555
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
5.845 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 79% RR...............The overall mixture is now 79% RR and 21% Z1


CHANGE FOUR
1.555 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.925 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.925
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
6.475 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 87% RR...............The overall mixture is now 87% RR and 13% Z1


CHANGE FIVE
0.925 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.550 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.550
0.630 RR x 0.5946% = 0.375 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.375
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the fourth change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
6.850 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 92% RR...............The overall mixture is now 92% RR and 8% Z1


CHANGE SIX
0.550 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.327 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.327
0.375 RR x 0.5946% = 0.223 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.223
0.630 RR x 0.5946% = 0.375 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 0.375
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the fourth change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the fifth change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
7.073 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 96% RR...............The overall mixture is now 96% RR and 4% Z1


CHANGE SEVEN
0.327 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.194 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.194
0.223 RR x 0.5946% = 0.133 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.133
0.375 RR x 0.5946% = 0.223 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 0.223
0.630 RR x 0.5946% = 0.375 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 0.375
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the fourth change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the fifth change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the sixth change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
7.206 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 97% RR...............The overall mixture is now 97% RR and 3% Z1


CHANGE EIGHT
0.194 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.115 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.115
0.133 RR x 0.5946% = 0.079 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.079
0.223 RR x 0.5946% = 0.133 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 0.133
0.375 RR x 0.5946% = 0.223 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 0.223
0.630 RR x 0.5946% = 0.375 RR..................Our RR from the fourth change is now reduced to just 0.375
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the fifth change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the sixth change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the seventh change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
7.285 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 98% RR...............The overall mixture is now 98% RR and 2% Z1


CHANGE NINE
0.115 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.068 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.068
0.079 RR x 0.5946% = 0.047 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.047
0.133 RR x 0.5946% = 0.079 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 0.079
0.223 RR x 0.5946% = 0.133 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 0.133
0.375 RR x 0.5946% = 0.223 RR..................Our RR from the fourth change is now reduced to just 0.223
0.630 RR x 0.5946% = 0.375 RR..................Our RR from the fifth change is now reduced to just 0.375
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the sixth change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the seventh change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the eighth change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
7.332 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 99.1% RR.............The overall mixture is now 99.1% RR and 0.9% Z1


CHANGE TEN
0.068 Z1 x 0.5946% = 0.040 Z1..................That original Z1 is now reduced to 0.040
0.047 RR x 0.5946% = 0.028 RR..................Our RR from the first change is now reduced to just 0.028
0.079 RR x 0.5946% = 0.047 RR..................Our RR from the second change is now reduced to just 0.047
0.133 RR x 0.5946% = 0.079 RR..................Our RR from the third change is now reduced to just 0.079
0.223 RR x 0.5946% = 0.133 RR..................Our RR from the fourth change is now reduced to just 0.133
0.375 RR x 0.5946% = 0.223 RR..................Our RR from the fifth change is now reduced to just 0.223
0.630 RR x 0.5946% = 0.375 RR..................Our RR from the sixth change is now reduced to just 0.375
1.061 RR x 0.5946% = 0.630 RR..................Our RR from the seventh change is now reduced to just 0.630
1.784 RR x 0.5946% = 1.061 RR..................Our RR from the eighth change is now reduced to just 1.061
3.000 RR x 0.5946% = 1.784 RR..................Our RR from the ninth change is now reduced to just 1.784
3 RR Added = 3 RR....................................We add 3 of new Redline Racing ATF
--------------------
7.360 RR / 7.4 Capacity = 99.5% RR.............The overall mixture is now 99.5% RR and 0.5% Z1

OntheJob

Funny you say this because when I did my 3x3 flush I fixed all the same problems you described however I used the Honda Z-1!!!..... so that basically shows your statement holds no ground.

I think what were ALL... EVEN ME are forgetting is the "fresh fluid" no matter the brand is what is improving shifting both response and quality.

I put in royal purple after the 3x3 flush which has less FM in it then the z-1 and I noticed after a week the shifts were not as smooth again, and shifting harder, as described by ihatecars the less FM fluids are supposed to do.

I just dont see how the trans shifting into gear "harder" is any better or less worse for the trans, then the smooth shifting created from the slipping affect from the FM..... its either slipping or slamming in harder..... basically pick your poison.


I think the "Failure" issue comes down to personal use, and treatment coupled with maintenance of our transmissions.





Ive read countless threads not only on this forum but many other car forums about the same debate with any factory fluid vs. redline, RP and others..... and some say they help and some say they are the death of the transmissions. No hard evidence leading us to a conclusion in either direction.... other then be vigilant in changing your fluid often, dont beat on your car too much and hope for the best. :beer:

I hate cars

Here we go again. The effects of FM are well documented in both white papers and in the TL specifically on here. It's not a debate at this point. Less FM= less wear period.

The reasons for a quicker shift producing less wear are explained in great detail several times in several threads on here. The TL specific evidence is presented on here. There are about 100 cases of people posting their results after switching. I've explained why a shift can feel harder yet actually slip more and take a greater time to complete.

There is no mystery whatsoever at this point. You can drive the car as hard as you want, driving style has very little to do with it. You just need a non FM fluid coupled with new pressure swtiches and it will be extremely reliable. Not to sound cocky but most people on the internet do not know how to do valid testing and they don't know the first thing about an automatic trans. Of course the results are not going to be conclusive. But you can not find a single trans failure on a non FM fluid on this board including the 400whp TL with well over 100K on the original trans.

The "racing fluid" and pressure switch threads are a good place to start reading.

OntheJob

Read this edited post and help me understand where I am going wrong.. I have read all the threads and still dont see how not having something that helps the shifting is actually safer.


Funny you say this because when I did my 3x3 flush I fixed all the same problems you described however I used the Honda Z-1!!!..... so that basically shows your statement holds no ground.

I think what were ALL... EVEN ME are forgetting is the "fresh fluid" no matter the brand is what is improving shifting both response and quality.

I put in royal purple after the 3x3 flush which has less FM in it then the z-1 and I noticed after a week the shifts were not as smooth again, and shifting harder, as described by ihatecars the less FM fluids are supposed to do.

I just dont see how the trans shifting into gear "harder" is any better or less worse for the trans, then the smooth shifting created from the slipping affect from the FM..... its either slipping or slamming in harder..... basically pick your poison.


I think the "Failure" issue comes down to personal use, and treatment coupled with maintenance of our transmissions.

I think its beneficial to also show the ATRA automatic "transmission builders association" show the number 1 major cause of trans failures is fluid break down from lack of changing, which cant provide the same amount of lubrication or protection as fresh fluid.

This statement DIRECTLY FROM THE ASSOCIATION SHOWS WHY EVERYONE ON HERE IS WRONG ABOUT PUTTING IN A FLUID WITH "NO" OR EVEN "LESS" FRICTION MODIFIERS IN YOUR TRANS, AND IS ALSO WHY I EXPERIENCE WORSE SHIFTING AFTER PUTTING THE RP IN AFTER MY 3X3 OF Z-1, I ALSO WILL BE GOING BACK TO Z-1.. READ:

"The friction modifiers in ATF play a critical role in the operation and longevity of late-model electronic automatic transmissions. Friction modifiers are chemical additives in the fluid that affect how the transmission feels when it shifts gears. Vehicle manufacturers have specifications for the type and amount of friction modifiers that are (required) for their transmissions. The specifications differ from one make and model of vehicle to another depending on which transmission they have and the mechanical differences in the torque converters and clutch packs. That's why Ford, Chrysler, General Motors, Honda, Toyota, Nissan and the other OEMs have so many different ATF formulations.
As the miles add up, heat and constant shearing break down the ATF. The friction modifiers are one of the first things that go, and once that happens, shifts may become rough and jerky - a condition known as transmission shudder.
Driving conditions that increase the normal operating temperature of the fluid accelerate oxidation. This includes things like aggressive driving, pulling a trailer, mountain driving, highway driving with increased wind resistance due to a car-top carrier, high speed driving during unusually hot weather, etc"


Now after reading the above, that basically disproves every stance on here about using fluids with no FM.

Now obviously no matter what you use, changing your fluid often is best, just like with our engine oil... I want to believe using NON FM fluids are beneficial but after reading all the threads on here about it, I just dont see how they are.... unless Ihatecars, or someone else can point me to what I am missing I will be going back to z-1 with 3x3 flushes every oil change for extra peace of mind.



Ive read countless threads not only on this forum but many other car forums about the same debate with any factory fluid vs. redline, RP and others..... and some say they help and some say they are the death of the transmissions. No hard evidence leading us to a conclusion in either direction.... other then be vigilant in changing your fluid often, dont beat on your car too much and hope for the best. :beer::thumbsup