2Sunny

I realize this is frequently discussed and debated, but my car is at Acura of Bedford Hills and they are telling me I need new brakes front and rear with new rotors. I changed the rotors in the rear myself less than 30,000 miles ago using Acura OEM parts. The dealer says they CAN NOT do just the pads because Acura says they MUST change or resurface the rotor, and the dealer won't tell me what the specs are on my rear rotor.


Question:

What is Acura's recommendation on rotors? Is there a TSB for this? Is this true?





Thanks,

Joe in NY





I did find a post showing the specs:

DMZ

Rotors should always be resurfaced or replaced when installing new pads. The only good thing about getting them resurfaced at the dealer is they use the lathe that resurfaces the rotors ON THE CAR. That way, the new surface is PERFECTLY perpendicular to the wheel hub and spindle.
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2Sunny

Forgive me as I really am a nice guy , but I disagree. That is an opinion, and I am looking for the facts. Rotors can and are used more than once without resurfacing or replacement. They have manufacturer specified limits. I realize there are many good reasons not to keep the old rotors; however, at this point in time I am short on cash and want my car to pass NY State inspection, and I believe my rotors are well within legal limits (I checked them before bringing the car in but I didn't have the means to check rotor thickness) so I'm looking for proof that the dealer could replace the pads only without being legally in trouble. The ultimate solution is for me to do the job myself, but it's at the dealer now for a PCM update which I can't do, and pads are cheap and they can do it a lot faster than I can. Anyways, just looking for Acura's actual recommendations on this issue.

Thanks for taking the time to answer though



Joe

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

That is not correct. Not at home this month, but there is a service bulletin recommending that the dealerships be cautious about cutting rotors as they don't need to be cut every time the pads are replaced. There is no reason to cut the rotors when pads replaced as long as no heavy scoring or no prior out of tolerance noticed. Have them install just the pads and be done with it, as it's just another money maker for the dealership.

I very rarely cut rotors, just rough them up and install new pads. If rotors are deemed unusable, out of tolerance (heavy brake pulsation), I'll replace the rotors as there isn't much "meat" that can be removed before the rotor is under service minimum.

FCVadi

iTrader: (3)

all car shops, dealerships or mom and pop shops will resurface.. hmm I should state every single one I have ben to in the past 15 years.. they base their charges on resurfacing..

now that said you dont need to resurface.. I know folks will argue but for the past 5 yars of changing my own brakes if the rotor is not warped then I light sand it to get any gloss off and everything works fine.. I push my car pretty ahrd and brake pretty hard and never had an issue

Also what Acura says is correct, they cannot change breaks without resurfacing, it is their rule and they have to follow it, hence why I do my own brakes

Flick

I'm sure it isn't recommended but my original front rotors made it 147,000 miles without being turned and only one set of pads being replaced at 60K miles. They still had the meat left on them but they started to warp around 130K. The rear rotors I haven't had much luck with, gone through three sets in the 147K. I just replaced the rotors n pads at the same time, it's quick, easy and cheap!!!!

2Sunny

Yeah, that's what I figured. Thanks!


I hate doing my own work at this point in my life, but given that they want over a $1400 for this job and I can do it for under $300, it looks like I'm doing some brakes tomorrow . . . ah well

Thanks guys for all the input!


Joe

94eg!

BAM!

/debate

All quoted from the Dec 2010 Acura service news. You can look it up in the TSB section if you want to download the PDF.

The problem is that resurfacing is a source of PURE PROFIT. Aside from the cost of cutting bits, there is no cost associated with actually cutting the rotors. On top of that, the removal of material from the rotor reduces it's lifespan, thereby requiring you to buy new rotors from said shop sooner.

I used to be one of those "resurface every time" guys. But then I started hearing from several sources about the common practice of swapping out pads for racing events when you get to the track. I figured I would give it a try. After one attempt I was sold. No vibration, or any problems after quick hard break-in. I didn't even clean the rotor surface before install.

BOTTOM LINE: If you're not having any problem with braking vibration, and the rotor surface is relatively smooth, it is plenty safe to simply swap pads.

If your unsure about your rotors, take them in to O'reily auto to be measured (they cut rotors). They will mic them for you and tell you if they can be cut. Just be weary of the guy doing the measuring. It should take him a while and he should measure in many spots while sliding the tool back & forth. It's easy to show a false reading if you clamp the gauge on too tight.

If they say they are plenty thick to be cut, then tell them "no thanks" and re-install them as is. A quick hard break-in (many stops from 45-5mph will cook out any contaminates and lay a fresh coat of pad material onto the rotors. Then you will be ready for everyday driving.

If your dealer is insisting they must be refinished, have them read the Dec 2010 service news.

nj2pa2nc

original rotors and brake pads on my 06 tsx. Was serviced yesterday at a acura dealer and they said they we still good-128,000 miles

94eg!

I'm confused, did they work on your brakes (or just inspect)?

Bearcat94

IMO, this is huge Red Flag.

If your service provider (dealer or otherwise) won't give you correct specs and how your car/part compares, go somewhere else. Period. Otherwise, it's just a recipe to separate the customer from his hard-earned money; perhpas for work that does not need to be done.



Sorry, completely disagree. If the current rotor is in spec and shows no indication of "warping", getting the rotor resurfaced just removes usable material/mass. Less mass = less heat capacity => more prone to warping; TL's, for whatever reason seem more sensitive to this than other cars.

FWIW, I did 2 sets of pads on my front OE rotors, never had them resurfaced and never had any issues with brake performance. If I'd stayed with OE rotors, I feel certain I could've done a 3rd set of pads with no problems.

nj2pa2nc

when the rotate and balance the tires they check the brakes

Bearcat94

Joe, if you need scans from the Service Manual (for torque specs, etc.), look in this list of DIY/FAQ's. There are numerous threads catalogued for changing Pads & Rotors.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/3g-tl-garage-faq-3g-tl-newbies-553554/

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

200,000 miles on our modified RX7 Turbo and original rotors all around, never cut. Realize that the little rotary isn't FWD, but still good mileage on rotors.

Now the wife's TL is a different story. The rotors were resurfaced along with new pads when purchased CPO at 42,000 miles and now at 71,000 it feels like a bucking bronco when brakes applied from the buildup, but new pads and rotors sitting in the garage for a few months. Guess when I get home from Florida, I'll change them. Good thing I didn't drive the TL to Florida.

Will Y.

Every dealer and shop I used told me the pad measurements remaining and if the rotors have enough metal for re-surfacing, including the thickness and amount expected to be removed by machining/resurfacing if the tolerances were close.

Our TL had the rotors machined/resurfaced when the pads were changed, but the Odyssey's pads were changed without resurfacing the rotors.

SpiderX1016

I never resurface my rotors when I change pads. I believe in "if it ain't broke don't fix it."

But for customers cars, we give them pad measurements and rotor thickness. Let them decide if they want to just change the pads or do both.

illadelph

My whole life i've known at least someone that has a shop who can do my brake work cheap, and reliable. When i bought my 08 TL with 23,000 they re-surfaced the rotors and put new pads on. Im only at 29,000 now but i'll tell you when these brakes start acting up im going drilled and slotted with new pads. . . I get the whole Acura store trying to bang you over the head with the amount to put them on. In my case, buying new rotors and pads is maintence. I figure i'll get alot of miles out of my current set, so once I change them out I wont need to worry about it again for the entire life of the vehicle.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Just an FYI
Take a look at the specs and minimum limits and the following is all that can be cut from the front rotor:
A/T non Type S .004" max each side .008" max total
Type S and M/T .0035" each side .007" max total

This certainly isn't much to play with and most shops will cut below the minimum width allowed. There aren't any garages/machine shops (that I am aware of) that will actually mic the rotor to make certain it isn't under specs. Give them the rotor and they'll clean it up regardless of the finished width.
Most of them never heard of a micrometer.

2Sunny

A little shocking or maybe for some not so shocking update . . .

I had the parts sitting around in my garage, and was dreading doing the job because even though I hadn't heard the sound of metal on metal the guy from the dealership said "Your rear brakes have one mm left. They're paper thin. You'll be metal on metal very soon, and you need to get them done." Which is when I told him I'd do them myself.

Anyways, on Wednesday the 23rd I finally got around to doing the job. When I removed the first rear caliper and set of pads,

I found the dealership had outright lied to me. I had more the 3 mm of wear left!


I called the dealership immediately, and explained my story while remaining calm and civil. The service manager had me bring my car back to the shop yesterday am, where he put it on a lift, removed all four tires and pulled the pads from one set on the rear. Then he showed me a gauge that looks like a hand held fan with green, yellow, and red tabs of varying thickness. It was a wear checker for brake pads. Red means change 'em, and yellow or green means you got plenty of time. Well he agreed, my pads were more than 3 mm, and my brakes were fine (By the way, I have 65,000 miles on my original brakes - I do almost all highway driving). We talked afterwards, and they are paying for the parts I bought, and will install them for free when my brakes actually wear out in about a year or so.

It's a shame, but now I see that brake jobs have become a major profit center for many a shop. After checking the pads, we inspected the rotors, and I showed him the Acura Service Bulletin quoted above (which I found on the internet myself), but he was adamant that the shop will not do "a pad slap" and will always change the rotors which bothers me because Acura itself said in the December 2010 Service News:


The moral of the story is watch out, and know your specs, and Thank Heavens for this forum!!

Lastly, even though I didn't do my rear brakes, I did take one set off and put them back on, and it was a ridiculously easy job. Don't know how much harder the rotors would have been to deal with, but folks should definitely consider doing their own "pad slaps" if they're happy with how their rotors look.

So that's it for now . . .

Thanks again guys!


Joe in NY

94eg!

If your not having vibration, just do the pad-slap yourself when it comes time. Replace the caliper clips and clean & lube the slide pins. That's all you need to do.

This is why I take care of this crap myself. I would have spent 10's of thousands of dollars getting all the stuff done that I've needed to do on my 4 cars had I taken them to dealer each time.

Looks like we've converted another one!!!

ez12a

lol you know it's bad when acura corporate has to mention the excessive brake change charges in a company wide bulletin. Stealerships are named as such for a reason.

Nates NJTL

Dealer said my CPO TL had rotors resurfaced when I bought the car but at the time I bought it, the fronts were pulsating. Due to life issues, I wasn't in the mood to try to have them make it right so I bought the car. Today, front pads are near the end of their lives and rears have a month or so left. Question to you all is should the dealer have at their fingertips the measurements of the rotors after they resurfaced them to validate the car they sold me was in spec? Do rotors wear thin due to driving or only when they are cut?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

A few comments:

• All rotors should have a minimum thickness cast or stamped into the rotor.
• Rotor thickness will change from driving/braking as well as from when they are cut/turned/resurfaced. Obviously cutting/turning them will reduce their thickness faster than just driving.
• Many/most folks, myself included, replace the rotors at every pad change.
• The thing about rotors is they have their best/most optimal "thermal mass" when they are new; as rotors get thinner and approach the minimum thickness, the thermal mass is low enough to cause overheating of the rotors from normal driving.

truonghthe

rotor does wear down over time as pads remove some of the metal, I highly doubt any dealer will resurface your rotor after pad replacement even their paperwork said "rotor resurface" the only time you would resurface the rotor is when you need completely removal of the old pad material deposit unevenly through out the rotor. That route never works for me and usually about 3 months later the pulse during braking is back so I just buy new set of rotor.

thoiboi

I'd just replace the rotors and call it a day It's not really worth that battle IMO

BROlando

I doubt anyone noted the rotor measurements.

Rotors are incredibly cheap - usually $20-30 on rock auto.

New rotors every pad change is what I would do.

To avoid pulsation:

-Don't buy ceramic pads. Opt for hybrids, semi metallics, and high temp NAO's instead. I highly recommend Raybestos EHT.

-Bed in the pads to the new rotors.