JesseX

Hello everyone! I'm an 18 year old senior in high school, and my parents are looking to get me my first car. I started driving at 15 and I learned on my mom's automatic 2011 Camry. My dad wants to get me a stick shift for my first car, and I'm more than okay with that since I wanted to learn how to drive stick anyway. He has a 2006 TL with the manual transmission, and he's in the process of leasing a new Mercedes C-Class.

Naturally, I suggested that he teach me on the TL (and I've read up on the basics) and simply give me that car instead of having to buy a used car elsewhere. In his words, "the TL is way too difficult to learn manual on". When I asked why, he told me "the clutch is weird and you'll either end up breaking the car or hating manual transmissions". For that reason, he's been looking around for BMW E46 325is and Lexus IS 250s to teach me manual and give me as my first car. While I'd be very happy and grateful to drive those cars, I still prefer the TL over them, and there would be no hassle since he's going to be giving up the TL very soon anyway. Right now, he plans to put the TL up on craigslist, which just seems unnecessary if I could just take it off his hands.

So what do you guys think? Is the TL that hard to learn manual on that we should go through with finding another car? He's been driving manual all his life, so I trust that he knows what he's talking about haha. I just really like the TL and think it would be the perfect first car.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The TL is not a great car to learn how to drive stick. I think it's the dual mass flywheel and short engagement or pedal travel. I have always driven manual cars since I started driving and remember the TL being hard to drive as smoothly as I would like. Look at Lexus IS300 manuals as a fun first car. The 06 TL is a very nice car and quality wise is much better that most cars.

01acls

In general any car will be hard to learn in when learning how to drive a stick shift. The car doesn't matter as much as the skill of the driver when learning how to drive a stick shift.

The bigger the motor the harder it is to kill the motor due to more torque available to keep the motor running. With that said, in theory a four cylinder would be the hardest to learn in when driving a stick shift.

However, Intimately it all comes back to the driver's skill when learning how to drive a stick shift, regardless of what type of vehicle is use.

So go ahead and find a way to make that TL yours and learn how to drive a stick in it.

Tip

When learning the stick it's all about the seat to clutch length adjustment. There should be a moderate bend in your leg when at rest on top of the clutch. When the leg is extended comfortably, it shouldn't be too far pass the clutch engagement point (roughly an inch or so past the clutch first contact/engagement point). So keep adjusting your seat until you find the clutch's sweet spot. This will significantly reduce your learning time.

Good luck and enjoy.

01acls

Also, learning to drive a stick and driving a stick smoothly are totally two different things. You can do one without the other. In other words, smoothness comes with time.

​​​​​​​An experienced stick shift driver cannot drive a stick shift car that person has never driven before smoothly on the first try because the driver doesn't know where the clutch's sweet spot is. However, that person is still able to drive the car but not smoothly.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

what I experienced is that the TL is the HARDEST car to master it's clutch
it's very unforgiving. if you're not in the clutch's sweet spot, you'll get terrible shifts. what makes it hard is that the TL's clutch is pretty inconsistent due to the dual mass fly wheel. the dual mass fly wheel self adjusts which then changes the engagement point

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

to the OP, the TL is rewarding if you can master it's clutch!!!!!!!!!!

peter6

I can really relate to your position. I was looking for a stick car year ago (also graduating from hs) and I really wanted TL. I test drove 3 cars, while first car was my first manual car. Never went more than 30mph and my rides (mostly start from completely stop) weren't smooth, but I wouldn't say it was harder than any other car I drove. My dad drove it on a high way - I wanted somebody experienced to "feel" the car. It doesn't apply to you since it's a family car.

I knew it was supposed to be harder, but technically I didn't needed a car for next 3 months so I had plenty of time to learn. Unfortunately I didn't found TL in my area great enough to buy and ended up with '08 auto tl. I totally love the car and wouldn't trade it for anything (except the stick in the same condition).

So it's all about how you feel and do you need the car right now. If you still have the time, just test drive it. And then decide if you are willing to spend some more time to learn.

Of course it's written from the perspective of the guy who doesn't know how to drive stick and did it only couple of times.

jimmyfu

I don't think the TL is hard to learn per se; I bought my TL with only a few practice sessions under my belt. Having the TL also forced me to pick it up quick as it was the only car around I could drive. With that said, it does take some time to master, and you do have to pay special attention to when the clutch catches on. What IS different when learning on the TL is the slave cylinder check valve, which forces the clutch to hang a little bit before it catches. If you're wary of that fact, then it shouldn't be too big of a problem to drive. The clutch pedal also is quite a bit shorter, but I only say this as the only other manual car I drove and remember about is my cousin's Audi B6.

MarcDavidoff

The TL clutch does take some getting used to. A good car to learn on would be an early 90s accord or integra stick. I always found them to be very easy in general. I would vote for you taking over your fathers especially if it is in good shape as you know it's history. Any used car you buy will have some unknowns

GreenSpades

As others have said the TL clutch is very hard to MASTER and it will be a jerky ride for a while, especially if you are new. However, I believe this car is easy to learn on because of the same very reasons it is hard to master:

Large engine with decent torque
Dual mass flywheel allows time after engagement for the driver to apply gas BEFORE stall, I find stalling is what frustrates noobs most
That stupid check valve adds an additional level of stall prevention
Throttle is sensitive and if stalling can be turned into driving quickly

That said I totally agree with the people saying driving a manual and driving a manual smoothly are two entirely different things. Take it out when he is not looking and be all like "I drove dat bitch, and oh Im a boss". Unless you break it lols, then you are f'd in the a.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

if I were in OP's position, I would welcome the TL with open arms!

and good luck with your decision

SayItAintTom

Just listen to your dad, he knows better. He's offering you better cars anyway and you're being unreasonably stubborn.

Dad offers him a bmw or lexus, dude goes with the acura lol.

JesseX

Thank you guys for all the help. I showed this thread to my dad, and it convinced him to at least give me a shot in the TL. We drove around in the neighborhood. I did stall a couple of times in the beginning, but we kept doing it until my starts were smooth (which took about an hour). I still can't go from first to second smoothly though, even when I release the clutch slowly. We took it out on the road, and I did fine with all other gears. He also showed me how to downshift properly by rev matching, and I think I got the hang of that too. It wasn't that bad tbh!

And I wasn't even aware that the clutch was this weird on the TL. Huh, I'm pretty glad I joined this forum.

He feels a bit more comfortable giving the TL to me now though! But unfortunately, he's still not sure if he's going to do it. We'll see

JesseX

Well, I prefer the styling on the TL over the styling of the IS and E46 3 series. Also, both don't have as many "luxury" features as the TL, and they are a lot less roomy (which isn't that big of a deal since I'm not hauling people around).

This forum is certainly biased, but do you guys think the IS and E46 3 series are objectively better than the TL? Cause if they are, then perhaps I should go with one of them. I guess RWD would be nice, and driving dynamics should make for a fun ride in the bimmer. But man, the TL just looks so damn nice!! And maintenance on it should be better than on the bimmer.

WDPanda

TL is a great car to learn manual. Makes you a better stick shift right from the start.

01acls

Lol Ahh any car is going to make him a better stick shift driver...

GreenSpades

Hell no, give me an e92 and youve got a different story, but that will cost way more than the TL. I have no bias, I own both a TL and a 3 series, for a young person the TL is the winner 100%. Plus you really should have a fwd car for your first stick in my opinion. That will be a lot safer for you. I dont mean that in a you cant handle the rwd kind of way, but I just know I almost killed myself in rwd a few times and fwd has never almost sent me over the side of a mountain or backwarss into the other lane of oncomming traffic.

Undying Dreams

iTrader: (3)

I learned how to drive stick in a TL with a stage 3 clutch in the matter of about 20 minutes.

I will I'll agree with what others have said, the TL isn't hard to learn on but it's hard to master. Driving smoothly seems to be the biggest obstacle for me so far.

Sometimes i shift and it's buttery smooth, other times it shakes the car and I feel like a dolt. It just takes practice.

The TL is worlds more fun in manual though and I highly recommend it. Good luck!

GreenSpades

Absolutely, I would have never considered the TL in auto. I actually never gave the car any thought til I found a 6spd car to drive. Even the type-s auto is quite nerfed with that 5spd auto. A stage 3 clutch will of course be quite different from stock and are a whole nother topic really.

Cheers OP, hope you are getting some seat time in that manual and a happy new year!

mtiaz

My TL-S was the first stick-shift car I've ever owned and it was very difficult for me to master it. I'm pretty sure it was due to the short-pedal travel, the linear clutch engagement, the quietness of the engine and the rev-hang due to either the DBW and/or the check valve in the clutch master cylinder. For me I learned how to drive stick in a B6 3.0 A4 and learned how to rev-match and drive smoothly in a B8.5 S4 - if you've ever driven a MT Audi, their clutches tend to "push" your foot out when the clutch engages - the TL does not which made it tricky for me to figure out when the car would smoothly engage.

I remember two weeks into owning my car, I thought I made a huge mistake because it was so hard to drive it smoothly. Since my TL-S is my only vehicle, I was forced to learn how to drive it correctly and smoothly. I'd say it took me about 4 months of driving it to finally have smooth gear changes, especially from 1st to 2nd. Definitely a very rewarding transmission once you learn how to drive it properly and smoothly. So don't be too put off if you become frustrated in the first little while of owning and driving the car.

Scottwax

That's odd, both my Maxima and G35 6 speeds were/are very easy to shift smoothly and they both have dual mass flywheels. In fact, on the forums its well known if you decide to go with a single mass flywheel when you replace the clutch (which does save about $1000), you have to learn how to drive the car all over again and deal with some clutch chatter.

JesseX

Updated!

My dad let me keep the TL! I'm now added to his insurance, and I've been driving it daily to school and other places! I'm still having trouble being smooth when shifting from first to second, but otherwise, everything else has been very awesome for me! And it has a shit ton more power than my mom's camry haha.

I'm really happy with this car. The sound system is great, the nav screen looks hella cool, the ride feels "tight", the breaks are extremely effective, and the car is just gorgeous. His new c-class is a beauty, especially the interior, but for some reason, this TL has a special place in my heart.

I'm looking to make a small upgrade to the car - add the front aspec lip. Anyone know where I could find one? And if possible the aspec rims (little pricey, so I'd prefer getting the lip first)?

GreenSpades

Lucky you! My first car was a 1995 absolute base 3 speed cavelier with almost 200,000 miles lol. You got a sweet ride. Take care of it and it will take care of you for a long time.

If I may make a suggestion, rather than get a new front lip why dont you buy a haynes manual and read over that? It can help you make a maintenance plan and you can see what may be worn or broken on the car. Maintaining over modding as we daily drivers always say. Do an oil change, change trans fluid, thuroughly wash and wax, clean the interior, tune up with spark plugs or new coils, replace the air filter. All these things will improve the actual feel and longevity of the car. If you have any questions you already know you are in the right place.

Danza

TL-S has been the trickiest Honda I've driven due to the clutch, but the shifter gates are easy to find unlike a lot of vw/audi products I've also driven.