Postavshik

Hi Everybody,

I bought used car with 190K. Right now it s 202K and I love how it s drive. I have made full maintenance after I bought it but only questions for me - what to do with transmission fluid.

I don't know was it changed before me and when. Some mechanic told me that with this high mileage it s not recommended to change AFT at all because can hurt to transmission. And I m scarred of it.

Right now shifting is not smooth. Changing of every gear with small jerks. I try look at this as a normal things for car with so high milage.

What do you say folks? Is it safe to change ATF on this mileage or don't risk and just continue to drive...

P.S. When I changed Timing Belt on 195K, my mechanic told that seems it s the first time this car has timing belt change

AlbinLee

Have you driven a low mileage example of the 3rd Gen TL before? Just wondering. The only reason I ask is because I bought mine in JAN with 40K miles, and my transmission is harsh as well. It took me awhile to get used to the abrupt shifts and rev matching. Coming from my 2002 RL which shifted like butter (4 speed), this was a big difference. I have also driven my mom's 2012 TL, which is an AT, and hers is similar. Low miles, shifts are harsh, rev matching, etc.

As far as whether to change fluid or not? I am by no means an expert, but I would recommend the following:
Complete a single transmission drain, and save the old fluid. Refill with about 3 quarts of Honda DW-1 ATF (measure the drained volume to match).

If the old fluid is especially dark, has a lot of loose clutch material, or metal shavings visible to the naked eye, I would say leave it alone and hope that the 3 new quarts can improve the lubricating properties of the old fluid . If there is a lot of clutch material in the fluid, it can actually prevent worn out clutch packs from slipping. This is why a 3X3 drain and refill can cause problems in old transmissions (even more so with a flush, which Honda never recommends), and most likely why the mechanic told you not to drain/refill.

If the old fluid is dark pink but appears to be somewhat healthy (not discolored, burnt smelling, no obvious shavings or clutch material) albeit "used up", then you might consider another 1X3 drain/refill (for a total of two). I personally would be hesitant to do any more, maybe just give the first 1X3 a few thousand miles to determine if the changes are positive (or worse), and repeat accordingly. I personally do not have experience with a tranny going bad, so this should be taken with a grain of salt. I am just sharing what I would most likely do in your case.

My RL had 225K when I sold it, and the tranny was still amazing. In that case, I had control over the maintenance from about 105K until I sold it. I always drained/refilled per manufacturer rec's, which I believe was a 3X3 every 30K. Hope this is helpful to you! Definitely do your research, get a second opinion, and hopefully some other Aziner's will come along and provide more concrete results from their own experiences.

Postavshik

Thank you AblinLee for useful advises. I wait maybe more people share their experience and opinion.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You're not doing a flush, just a drain and refill, no problems.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

I think its always a great idea to do a drain and fill, no matter the mileage!

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

I have 195k on mine and will be doing a 3x3 with pressure switch change soon. New fluid is always good fluid in my eyes.

Postavshik

Thank you guys.

So today I visited my mechanic for consultation, he checked a transmission fluid and it smelled burned (I tried as well but personally I m not sure that felt the burn smell). He told it seems that fluid was not changed very long time and he is not sure to change it or not. He had experience when transmission failed after fluid was changed on high mileage transmission. So this is my risk and if I want he can drain and fill it but can not guarantee the result.

Then I decided to go to Acura dealership and ask them. They told me almost the same, but they didn't recommend me flush and just make drain and fill which is usually safe procedure. It was not really expencive procedure, $104 with tax so I decided to make it. Carwash and full diagnostic is included in this price. They changed the fluid and I felt difference immediately. Gear shifting became more smooth, espesially from 1 to 2 gear. So here is my positive experience, hope will be usefull for somebody.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

I'd look for another mechanic.

llllBULLSEYE

iTrader: (1)

Glad it worked out for you. At 200k its a hit or miss with transmission fluid drain and fill

Gadgetmanconnor

My 1-2 shifts have been pretty rough here lately and sometimes almost seems slightly jittery. I've put 20k on the car since I've got it, might be time for me to do new fluid and pressure switches.

aIRpeACE

iTrader: (2)

do the 1X3 first and run it for couple thousand miles to determine if it improves the shift

Postavshik

Start with the fluid first. You switchers can be still in a good shape

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

You do realize that, especially the1-2 shift, is far from smooth, even when the car was new?
Actually it's one of the firmest shifts I've ever experienced in newer vehicles, and it hasn't changed
in the last 10 years.

Mykizism

You're mechanic is correct. This is very risky, when changing fluid on such high mileage vehicle. What has happened is the clutch disks are worn and what is allowing you to continue to drive the car is due to the clutch material that is actually in the fluid now instead on the clutch disks. If you drain all the old fluid out you may not have the friction material suspended in the fluid to allow the clutch packs to "grab" each other and drive.

You options are to leave the fluid as is and do not drain and refill. Or draining and refilling, if you go that route, I recommend using OEM honda fluid for this. Do not use any other at this point.

I also recommend that you save up for a transmission rebuild or look for a 2007 base TL transmission to swap in. All Automatic transmission are prone to fail at some point in their life, as the clutch packs need to be replaced / rebuilt. They are a consumable item.


Seems like his mechanic appears to have good intentions.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

QUOTE=Mykizism;15779627]You're mechanic is correct. This is very risky, when changing fluid on such high mileage vehicle. What has happened is the clutch disks are worn and what is allowing you to continue to drive the car is due to the clutch material that is actually in the fluid now instead on the clutch disks. If you drain all the old fluid out you may not have the friction material suspended in the fluid to allow the clutch packs to "grab" each other and drive.

You options are to leave the fluid as is and do not drain and refill. Or draining and refilling, if you go that route, I recommend using OEM honda fluid for this. Do not use any other at this point.

I also recommend that you save up for a transmission rebuild or look for a 2007 base TL transmission to swap in. All Automatic transmission are prone to fail at some point in their life, as the clutch packs need to be replaced / rebuilt. They are a consumable item.




Seems like his mechanic appears to have good intentions.[/QUOTE]

According to you he's correct, but certainly not in the trade. Can't believe anyone would believe that the transmission is
only operating correctly because of the clutch material in the fluid.
If you look at any OEM maintenance schedule, it certainly doesn't state to spot changing the fluid after
what, 100K, 150K,200K?

thoiboi

Unfortunately it's very common to hear from mechanics. When my old Accord was going in for some work, I had asked about transmission fluid drain and refill. He said the same thing.. So I didn't. It started shifting roughly and I figured what could hurt . I did a few frail and refills and lo and behold, it shifted better ..

Mykizism

While that idea may seem bizarre it is true that if the clutch packs are worn to the point that there no longer any clutch material on the bands. And you performed a 3x3 flush you could end up with a non working transmission. The OP is fortunate to have done a drain a refill in which most cases will be fine. As there is still 2/3 ATF in there with Clutch material suspended in the fluid.

We also don't know the full history of the car 200k is a lot of miles more than mine when my AT died at 130k. Most of those miles could be highway miles which then there is minimal wear when you are at highway speeds.

Every time an AT shifts from 1-2 / 3-4 wear on the clutch bands is impacted. Once a car in motion and set at a certain speed no wear is induced.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

Looks like we have some documented evidence:
To me it's nothing more than an old wives tale, but if you feel uncomfortable changing the fluid, so be it, but I've changed ATF in dozens of high mileage cars and never a problem.

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

Just did a 1X3 this last weekend @ 196K miles. Car likes it so far. Smoother shifts, can barely feel any shifts on the freeway. I will be doing 2 more 1x3 over a period of time along with a new filter and pressure switches. Hope I can hit the 300K club!

webbch

IMO, if you only plan on keeping a vehicle for a few more months, then it might make sense to avoid changing the fluid. Otherwise, however, I'd change it now and accept that the trans may be toward the end of it's current life. The alternative is what? Keep driving it with fluid that you know is abrasive and increasing the rate of wear?

nothome17

OP: You may want to consider these items below. After that, you should be set to go. For some reason the tranny on these TL shifts are rough like my friend's old 1992 Honda Accord.

The 2008 TLS was my first automatic and I sure did not like the old car shifts. Even the Park to Drive delay annoyed me a bit.

Engine mount
Tranny mount
Control arm
Valve Adjustment
Replace all fluids
Spark Plugs
Alternator
Bushings

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

I want to chime in again on this topic. After 500 Miles on the fluid change, I would like to go back in time......... Trans is missing shifts, down shifting on the freeway, i can't accelerate without the car just revving. I wish i didn't change it. Looks like i am going to have to retire my TL and part it out!

After first hand experience, i would recommend just running it into the ground! My trans went to :poop:

Bimmitup

Today I did my 1x3 with 180k miles. Hopefully I don't run into any issues like you have. Did they do a 1x3?

Alexns05

Don't be dramatic, just pay $2000 for a rebuild. No point in getting a new car when you'll pay close to that just in sales tax.

BTW... when was the last time you had changed the fluid before this?

truonghthe

I hate people making statement "after I do drained and filled the AT start to slip" hell from what I saw most TL owner asking to change the ATF after they notice slipping. I would like to make it clear that if you gonna do drain and fill at highmileage makes sure you do it with OEM Honda ATF instead bring the car to jiffy lube or walmart.

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

Not being dramatic, just stating what the car is doing. Last time the fluid was changed was 165K. Mainly highway driving and never beaten on. At almost 200K miles why throw $2-3K at it when I can knock that off the top of a newer car with sub 85K miles (07-08 Type S)? Seems like a no brainer to me. While the car would get the trans it could use some other work while it is dropped. TB/WP work since it is nearing that next 100k service mark, new axles since the ones now click during cold temps when turning, I think my Oil pump seal is leaking since there is rundown on the passenger side of the oil pan. It will cost me well over $4,000 to have all this work done at a shop since I don't have the tools or space to do this. Wisconsin winters are very hard on cars and I have a feeling it will be rusting this year since I already had to get some rust repair last year. Only gonna get worse!

I did a 1x3 using Redline D4 in my garage, I don't trust any shop doing work on my car, so it didn't go to wally world or jiffy lube. I have heard to many horror stories.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

As I must be missing something, let me see I've got this straight-
You changed the fluid at 165k miles, no problems, then changed it at 190+K miles doing only a 1x3 and now it's shot.
Must be more to the story.

truonghthe

I think this is the answer we all been looking for, many member here does not recommend switch over to Redline and for those that switches over they mixed with OEM ATF go over and over before putting in all D4 fluid. There are case that D4 ATF cause flare and slipping so the fluid is the actual problem and yes it involved some 04-06 and 07-08 TL I think Paperboys is one of them, Another member also posted a while ago when Redline got a bad batch and the email he got back from Redline was "Redline ATF was not recommended use for Acura TL".

thoiboi

OEM fluid

Mykizism

BreezyTL, Sorry to hear about your transmission going out. It's quite unfortunate, I have been there and done that. This is why I converted my car to MT6 after my AT failed. These transmissions can be rebuilt, and they are quite simple to rebuild, gears [1-2] clutch pack are simply worn out of spec, and no longer grabbing each other to drive the car. The cost to rebuild the transmission should be about 1-2k, or used/rebuilt unit for about the same price.

One of the major problems is finding someone who can do a quality job of rebuilding the transmission.

Mykizism

The use of Redline D4 is not the sole reason why his Transmission failed. It just accelerated the wear of the already worn clutch packs (165K mileage transmission). If he had a brand new / rebuilt transmission, using Redline D4 the transmission would last 100K+ easy. ATF is a hydraulic fluid, Redline D4 vs OEM are literally the same thing. Only that OEM has friction modifiers made specific to the type of clutch material used by the OE.

Regardless, the main problem is that the fluid no longer had the clutch material suspended in the fluid to engage the clutch bands, due to draining it out.

Mykizism

Don't ever recommend anyone to take their car to jiffy lube or walmart. The people who work at place like those, have no idea on how the internals of the engine work let alone how a automatic transmission works. If they were real technicians/mechanics, then they would be a technician/mechanic else where not at a quick lube joint. Their job is simply to "sell you" products that are not needed and can actually cause contamination when they recommend you do "flushes" to any of your systems.

truonghthe

lmao

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

Turbonut- Thats the beginning, middle, and end of the story bro. Plain and simple 1x3 at 165K with no issues, and 1x3 at 196K. Bought the car at 142k, previous owner had the fluid changed before I took it in. I checked it to make sure, and it was done. Could have been at the end of its life... Glad it made it to almost 200K miles.

I guess it is all personal opinion on fluid, half the forum says D4 is fantastic and OEM causes failures, while the other half swear by OEM. I took a gamble following the ones that say D4 is the best and lost. I have to do some shopping around but I am leaning towards getting a new car. I am long over due for a new one! I tend to get sick of cars after a year but the TL grew on me and didn't want to let go!

I am assuming the trans is toast but would I be able to revive it with new OEM fluid, a new trans filter for it and 3rd/4th gear pressure switches, or should I save those if I go the rebuild route? I have the old fIuid still, I could dump that back in and see if it fixes it.

thoiboi

that's what i would do in your shoes

BreezyTL

iTrader: (8)

Do what? try to revive or use in new rebuild

nothome17

Since you live in the frozen tundra, I would use the money for a car/truck AWD. You may end up spending $6,000. But that $6,000 can go a long way if it last another 10 years. You get your money back if it last at least 20 months. (monthly car payment of $300 a month)

Tranny failing thats $2,000 to have it rebuilt and then you have to fix the oil pump which is another $200-500. Might as well do the Water Pump and timing belt since the oil pump is near the area $600-$1,000. Then new axles $200-500

Then pretty much the 200k maintenance stuff. $800-$2000

Engine mount
Tranny mount
Control arm
Valve Adjustment
Replace all fluids
Spark Plugs
Alternator
Bushings

Christopher Dasconio

I was also told the same thing from my buddy who helped me do the 3x3 drain and fill. He told me a story of a friends Ford F150, which had high miles and was shifting harsh. Did the drain and fill and the car tranny went same day. Could be all coincedence, but it seems to be a common story. Either way I still drained and filled mine and it made a big difference, there was a lot of metal stuck to the cap and my fluid was dark but didnt smell burnt.

Christopher Dasconio

I also put D4 in a my TL a few weeks ago based on recommendations from this website. People saying Redline was the tits. Also, many people on FB groups say Redline is awesome. I did a 3x3 drain and fill and havent had any problems. If you did only a 1x3, that means you really only swapped out 40% or less of the OEM for redline. It seems a little unlikely that this would ruin your transmission. With that being said, I am considering going Amsoil just cause. No one has anything bad to say about Amsoil that Ive heard.

Christopher Dasconio

Redlines website lists their D4 ATF as good with Gen 3's.

Red Line Synthetic Oil - Application Guide