jrock65

I'm thinking that the TL will be cross shopped the most with the ES330 and G35. The average shopper in this category is looking for an entry level luxury name plate car with decent room inside. The 330i might be conceived to be too small, too pricey, and not have "Japanese reliability."

Configuring the ES330 on lexus.com as close as possible to a base TL, I get $34,980 including destination.

Configuring the G35 on infiniti.com as close as possible to a base TL, I get $34,095 including destination.

Of course, each car has different strengths and weaknesses, with the G35 more performance oriented, ES330 more luxury oriented, and TL somewhere in between. And each car may have features that another car may lack.

So,

ES330 = $34,980
G35 = $34,095
TL = $34,000 ?

Personally, I think all these cars are tremendous values and each will sell well.

SilverCL225hp

Agree.


Lexus ES330: 3.3L V6 FWD with 230hp, 242lb-ft of torque, 5AT
Acura TL: 3.2L V6 FWD with 270hp, 236lb-ft of torque, 5AT or 6MT
Infiniti G35: 3.5L V6 RWD with 260hp, 260lb-ft of torque, 5AT or 6MT


Can't wait to see all three running side by side.

Bitium

I think the TL MSRP is more like $32k and $34k with Navi.

hatchback

The G35 did poorly on the IIHS offset crash test. The 2004 TL is based on the 2003 Accord, which did quite well on the IIHS offset crash test. So if safety is an issue, then the 2004 TL is more compelling than the G35.

jrock65

Bitium,

I think the 2004 TL MSRP including destination will be closer to $34k than $32k. Who knows though.


hatchback,

The G35 performed just as well as the 2003 TL in the IIHS crash test.

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/...idmod.htm#0307

The G35 did receive a poor rating on the 5 mph bumper test. The 2003 TL didn't do much better though (marginal rating). In any case, the bumper test only matters in how much it'll cost to repair the damage, and has nothing to do with safety (only 5 mph).

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/...eed_midmod.htm

amdmaxx

I'll take g35 for sporty, Es3330 for lexus name and luxury and TL for honda reliability and a good mix between performance and luxury

Monte TLS,MAX

I just dont and havent seen the ES300/330 crossed shop with the G35 or TLS, those owners are a different buying demographic. Usually an older crowd and lots more women buyers than TL or G35 buyers and could care less about sport or power. The TL is going to be crossed shop by what it always has, G35/I35,A4,CTS,Maxima,04 V6 Accord EX to a certain extent, 3 Series.These cars range from High 20's to 30 something k.

SeCsTaC

Dont forget the 2004 G35 Sedan will have an AWD option =)

Bitium

It was just my guess!!! not saying that it is. I did guess that the TL was going to have 6 speed and brembo brakes over a year ago. You could probably even do a search.

I truly don't think it will hit $34k without navi.

Pauli

I disagree. I think jrock is right on target because those are exactly the cars I was comparing with when I recently got my TL-S, in addition to the BMW 5-series (not 3-series). However, I am 40 years old, so am probably a bit different than you 20-somethings.

huskerfan

I disagree also. When we were shopping for my wife's car, we looked at Infinity, Lexus, and Acura. We decided on the 2003 Acura TL Type S over the ES300 because it provided more value for the money and better performance.

jdone

Truth. I was going to buy an ES300 or C320 but the TL was too big a bargain to pass up. At >34k not such a bargain probably.

larrynimmo

Just yesterday I got an email offer on a lexus ES330 for 32K including the premium package that lists for 35.1K. 3K discount is a steep discount for this time of year.

Dollar for dollar, I like the lexus over the 04TL. However, I went the cheap route and bought an 03TL for 25.4K

Larry

2003 TL-P Rodono Red
Sunroof visor
mudflaps
free map in glove box
$7,000 extra cash in my pocket

lamster

We all know exterior look is a matter of personal taste, but I really think the ES330 is extremely ugly. It's Lexus so the quality of luxury is obviously there, but I just can't get over the look of that car.

Now the G35 and the new TL, that should be a better comparison, especially in terms of performance. I think the G35 Sedan is a little bit tall for its width, but the coupe is awesome.

fast-tl

It is really silly to see folks with that "free map in the glove box" or " $5 mapsco". Tell me how many times your map has "told" you where the nearest ATM is, or how quickly you were able to flip your mapsco to the exact location you needed. The navigation system is NOT simply a map. It's worth every penny, especially at trade-in.

Raheel

Ya whens the last time you told your map:

"Map Open Up, Map Where is Gas Station"?

huskerfan

I have a 2003 TL w/Nav and I really like it. However, on numerous occasions I have programmed in a location I already knew how to get to. I'm sure I would have eventually got there if I followed the Nav's instructions, but it sure wasn't even close to the best or most direct route. On a few occasions it directed me through the center of downtown on surface streets instead on the Interstate that was only a few blocks away.

Raheel

Well, your Map CD hasn't been updated for a long time, so you are running around in a old generation Navigation system..

jrock65

So, the MSRP, similarly configured as a base TL:

ES330 = $34,980
G35 = $34,095
TL = $33,195

TL will be at $33,000 for a while, while the ES330 and the G35 can be had for about $32,000. Whatever your choice, I feel that all of these are fantastic deals. Just four or five years ago, you had to pay $50,000 to get a car with the features and performance of these cars.

For some cars, such as the 2004 530i, I guess you still pay $50,000. Configuring the 530i as close as possible to a base TL, the MSRP is $50,220. To be fair, the 530i has more standard features and a better combination of sport and luxury (good quality interior with RWD) than the TL, G35 or ES330, but I just don't think it's worth the extra $17,000.

Monte TLS,MAX

well I guess the "older crowd" would look into the ES, for us younger people it doesnt havea sporting bone in its body. Its all about comfort/luxury which means some to me but not as important to me as the 40 something + crowd.

Fencesitter

It's not just an older crowd/younger crowd thing, I also think the vast majority of the car-buying public is much less discriminating than this group. To the average car buyer, the TL and the ES330 are about the same size, about the same price, and both positioned as Japanese near-luxury brands. I agree the two cars are night and day, but most people will select based on dealer experience, color choices, status, interior look, etc. I don't know if most of them would even notice how different the new TL is. And if Lexus is offering $3K discounts right now, that could be a direct (and brilliant) attempt to grab as much of that swing market before Acura gets its production up. I don't know if the strategy they used with MDX - making people wait 6 months for the car - would work for the TL.

huskerfan

As far as I know I have the latest Nav that Honda/Acura offered. It wouldn't have made any difference anyway. The address I was looking for has been there for 50 years and the Interstate has been there for 20 years. I hope my 2 year old navigation system is not that far behind.

golf2liv

It's not that your system is that far behind, it's that navigation as a whole is still fairly new technology in consumer automobiles. The technology is getting better and better every year, but your navigation system hasn't been updated since probably about 1999 if you have an 03 TL. This same problem can be seen if you go to popular sites such as mapquest.com or expedia.com for driving directions. Sometimes you get very accurate directions, while other times the directions tell you to drive to places you know are out of your way. This new system should be awesome, and worth every penny of the 2K...especially sonce the Honda/Acura nav system is by far the best on the market (i.e. great for resale value down the road)

huskerfan

I know that. I was responding to 2004TL's comments that the reason I got bad directions was because my Nav system was out of date. The streets and interstates in question were there years before my DVD was created. Like I said earlier, I like my Nav system and plan to get one on my new TL.

pedalermike

Hey don't speak for all of the 40+ guys!! I like sporty as much as the next guy.

huskerfan

I guess the twenty-somethings never heard of the "middle age crazies" where we buy the sports cars and drive around like teenagers.

blkngld

I'd agree with you up to your last sentence. I think a nav system is one of those things that you get because you want it -- some may even need it. But with the technology obsolecence, getting one for resale should be at the bottom of the list.

I think the next whiz bang thing you'll see with these is a heads up type display that indicates whether to continue straight, move to the left/right lane, or turn.

wfmiller

Not to mention the 50+ guys !!!

Bitium

I told you there wans't many reasons to hit $33k, less $34k. Bunch guys is this forum that don't know what they are talking about. It only takes one for others to follow. I knew $34k was a myth and a bad guess if anything. $33k was possible, so I couldn't argue that.

jrock65

Bitium:

"I think the TL MSRP is more like $32k and $34k with Navi."


Last time I checked my elementary math, $34k is closer to $33,195 than $32k. If I don't know what I'm talking about, then logic dictates that you know even less about what you're talking about.

Bitium

I don't remember saying anything about destination charge. The MSRP is $32,650

Honda News web site

Oswald Vater

As an almost-50 something, I enjoy the sportiness of my 2k TL and will want something similar this coming year. The G35 is definitely in the running, the ES330 not sporty enough, the Bimmer too much money and status, and I will even look at Maxima. The TL is still my first choice but I would not buy one at sticker if I could get a discount off the others. FWIW.

clintoronto

I agree. I think the new ES330 looks ugly and so much like the Camry. Personally, I always have a hard time differentiating an ES330 or a Camry from my rear mirror.

On the other hand, TL and G35 looks a lot different from the Accord and Maxima... (I35 still looks like the old Maxima)

jrock65

.

jrock65

I clearly state that the $34k estimate includes destination. In fact, if you check the first post, this whole thread is based on the premise of comparing the price of the three cars including destination.

But why does it matter? What is the point of going around saying that people whose estimate was off by a mere $800 "don't know what they're talking about"?

rajeshvr

I agree with MAX to some extent. While I did look at ES330 briefly when comparing TL with other cars, I don't consider it in the same category as the TL or G35. ES330 to me is like a more conservative type car driven by people who care more for others to say "he or she drives a Lexus" rather than for serious performance or sportiness. While every other car in the luxury category has 6 in dash CD player, their Mark Levinson audio package still has the changer in the center console or something like that. Infinity/Acura are way ahead in terms of creature comforts. I look at ES330 as just a glorified camry and doesn't really fit into the sports segment.

jrock65

There are many people in this price segment who get the ES330 for its ultra plush ride and refinement. These people care more about these things rather than sportiness.

Just test drove the TL today. The TL is a very nice car, but certainly not leagues of other cars in its class. The limits of FWD were apparent when pushed. As far as sportiness goes, I feel that the G35 has it beat. But as everyone knows, the quality of the G35's interior is no good. As far as refinement goes, the ES330 has a more coddling interior than the TL. But we all know that the ES330 is no driver's car.

In terms of looks, I like the TL, but that is purely subjective.

My suggestion would be:
If you truly value sportiness, then get the G35. If you want refinement and plush ride, get the ES330. For a good combo of the two, get the TL.

It's nice to have such choices in the low $30k range these days.

Raheel

What you mean more coddling interior?

jrock65

The ES330 leather was softer and the interior of the ES330 felt more luxurious than the TL, although not by a whole lot.