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A-122: DIY - 105k Service: Timing Belt, Water Pump, Spark Plugs, Thermostat *PICS*

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A-122: DIY - 105k Service: Timing Belt, Water Pump, Spark Plugs, Thermostat *PICS*

 
Old 03-21-2012, 07:35 PM
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I lined up the gear markings, put on the cover, the pully tdc dot is slightly to the right of the arrow tip. About a quarter inch. I am assming its because the mark on the plastic cover is not 100% accurate. The car started, ran a little loud and rough and then stalled. Should i split the difference and make the gear markings slightly off to the left so that the pully and plastic cover markings line up a little better?
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Old 03-21-2012, 07:43 PM
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Btw, i tested it without the drive belt. Does this matter for a brief period of time?
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Old 03-21-2012, 08:59 PM
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Hi team,

I wasn't sure if Mofojo was replying to me when he said he was going to check the manual tonight.

In case he was replying to someone else, can you guys please teach me how to put the auto tensioner together before the install. There is a small plastic nut that came off the back side (facing the engine) of the original tensioner. My question is am I supposed to screw in the plastic nut into the recess of the back side of the auto-tensioner before bolting into the engine? I think the plastic nut is what allows us to manually torque the tensioner bak to remove the belt. But again, the design doesn't make perfect sense because it the is threaded inside the tensioner recess as well...

Also, what is the torque spec for the auto-tensioner? I find that after I tightened it (hand tightened because my 1/2" torque wrench wouldn't fit. When I try to test it out by torque it back, the bolt simply comes off. Am I doing this wrong?

Thanks a bunch!!!
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:26 PM
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Hi guys,

I am still stumped by my drive belt auto tensioner. I even went and bought a smaller 3/8" torque wrench so it would fit the tight space for the 10x115 bolt. I tightened it to around 35 ft/lbs (400 in/lbs). When I go to try and torque it back, the bolt simply comes unloose, is there something I must do to the auto tensioner before the install? I have to admit that I feel a bit stupid not being able to figure this out...

Your guidance is much appreciated!
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Old 03-22-2012, 09:46 PM
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Nevermind. I figured it out. I am glad my idiotic nature didn't get the better of me this time. By the way, can anyone point me to a drive belt routing diagram for 2006 TL?

Thanks!
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Old 03-22-2012, 11:28 PM
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Old 03-23-2012, 08:55 AM
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so, i cranked the starter without the timing belt hooked up. did i mess up anything or should i be good??

^kidding

majofo and 94eg!, you have the patience of Job! thanks for all that you do to contribute to these forums.

^seriously
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cmluckett View Post
so, i cranked the starter without the timing belt hooked up. did i mess up anything or should i be good??

^kidding
LOL! You totally made my blood pressure spike.

Glad I could help.
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Old 03-23-2012, 12:18 PM
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Old 04-11-2012, 06:30 PM
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i think for good measure you guys doing it yourselves should mark the positions on the gear and block with white out or marker before removing the timing belt. All the "extra" marks are confusing you.

i'm debating on doing this myself, my usual shop quoted me $900 to do everything..
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:55 PM
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^^^ if the minute you ask this question, i vote dealership/shop....
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:58 AM
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For those having trouble with the timing belt replacement, I agree with the person that mentioned going by the block marks (not the timing covers). You will have the covers off anyhow.

Also, when routing the timing belt around the gears, do not pull on the belt. Pulling may turn a gear, just route it and leave the belt slack at auto tensioner location. After belt has been routed and tension set through auto tensioner, always double check the block marks at all 3 gears.

They will line up exactly, if they do not, something is off. Make a reference mark from all 3 gears to the belt (so 3 marks). Then, remove and reset auto tensioner. Remove timing belt and readjust based of referencing the 3 marks, you will know which gear location is off.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:11 AM
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Well for me, the marks did not match up EXACTLY. One of the cam marks was off a bit, I forget which one.

The service manual procedure directs a specific way to route the belt, my suggestion is to follow it.

And although there is a wealth of info in this DIY, I would not recommend tackling this job without the service manual.
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:02 PM
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I agree about using the service manual, besides it pays off in diagnosing other problems. I have one and followed it, but have also had experience on other Honda engines as well that helps.

On my engine, the timing belt block marks lined up when properly set.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by nfnsquared View Post
Well for me, the marks did not match up EXACTLY. One of the cam marks was off a bit, I forget which one.

The service manual procedure directs a specific way to route the belt, my suggestion is to follow it.

And although there is a wealth of info in this DIY, I would not recommend tackling this job without the service manual.
Probably the rear cam.

Originally Posted by HondaFan81 View Post
I agree about using the service manual, besides it pays off in diagnosing other problems. I have one and followed it, but have also had experience on other Honda engines as well that helps.

On my engine, the timing belt block marks lined up when properly set.
The timing marks are within a delta. You should be able to visually line them up, they're not exact.
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:13 PM
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I was wondering when you turn the cam/crank to align the TDC marks before doing anything, where and how do you turn it? Clockwise I assume?

After installing the new belt, how do you turn the crank by hand to see if the lines up? Only until you have everything back together? Or before putting the covers on, can you "loosely" install the crank pulley and bolt to turn the engine?

Just ordered the kit from RockAuto

I've been watching some DIYs for the Odyssey on youtube. There's one where they actually mark the old and new belts for comparison to make sure the teeth are the exactly matched up to the sproket on the cams and crank. I might do the same. Might be overkill but for the peace of mind I think that's worth trying. I might just use painter's tape for those that think the whiteout or marker might somehow degrade the belt.

8 years and 68k miles on my belt...Guess i should get on it eventually.

Last edited by ez12a; 04-25-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 04-25-2012, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by ez12a View Post
I was wondering when you turn the cam/crank to align the TDC marks before doing anything, where and how do you turn it? Clockwise I assume?
Yes you turn it forward (clockwise) via the crank pulley bolt. Once you line up the timing marks at the bottom, pull the plug in the upper front timing cover and make sure that mark is on the #1. Be careful, each cylinder has a line mark that looks suspiciously like a 1 so check double for an actual #1. If you want to double double check, pull the rear upper belt cover, and make sure that mark lines up as well. There is only one mark on the rear cam pulley.

Originally Posted by ez12a View Post
After installing the new belt, how do you turn the crank by hand to see if the lines up? Only until you have everything back together? Or before putting the covers on, can you "loosely" install the crank pulley and bolt to turn the engine?
I just start putting the bottom back together before I spin the crank & check the marks. Usually by that point I feel confident I got the belt on right. But you never know. You may have to undo it all again, and that lower timing cover is a bitch with all it's bolts. If you don't want to risk it, just install it with 1 bolt and do your check. Then you can pop the pulley off again and install the rest of timing cover bolts afterward. It's up to you.

Originally Posted by ez12a View Post
I've been watching some DIYs for the Odyssey on youtube. There's one where they actually mark the old and new belts for comparison to make sure the teeth are the exactly matched up to the sproket on the cams and crank. I might do the same. Might be overkill but for the peace of mind I think that's worth trying. I might just use painter's tape for those that think the whiteout or marker might somehow degrade the belt.
Yes that might be a good idea. Not sure what sort of marker I would trust to put on a brand new timing belt though. They are very specific about keeping the belt clean of oil & stuff.
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Old 05-01-2012, 03:54 PM
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Just completed this last weekend! Took me 4 days at a DIY autocraft center, each day ranging from 4 to 7 hours. Some things that I did wrong/made things take longer were.
1. Not taking of the actual engine mount off, just taking the brackets off.
2. I was also very paranoid with lining up the marking but I ended up realizing that if the crank and front pulley are lined up on the markings on the block, you should most likely be fine. My rear was off a little on the block but it was less than a tooth and I thought if I moved it a little with a wrench it would be easier to put the new belt back on.. that was a bad idea because it sprung forward and rested. I was really worried that I was not going to be able to get it back but I just took a small breaker bar with a socket and it rested right back in TDC.
3. The crank pulley took a long time too. PB blaster is great mixed with a half hour off impact drilling on it. What it really came down to was using a impact socket, extensions, a 2' breaker bar, a cheater bar extending it another foot and a half and 2 full grown men not worried about breaking the tool.
4. I put the new idler pulley on wrong so it wouldn't spin when it was torqued. Make sure you put it on the right way or it will make your timing belt slip off!
5. I also forgot to put the part of the engine mount that attaches to the side of the engine and continued to put the cam covers on.. This wasted a lot of time..
6. The thermostat is pretty easy compared to all the other stuff but be prepared for another waterfall of coolant if you don't drain everything out of the block.
With all that aside, it was a great learning experience! . I really appreciate this DIY, it helped out immensely. It was nice seeing the gains from the Lightweight UR pulley that I put on too!! My gas mileage cruising at 65 was at 35 compared to 33 before so that was exciting. I will have to test it for a longer distance to get a good recording. It really was not for the MPG gains though , when I hit the highway I spun the tires in second for at least 30 yards, given it was raining, but I was still able to feel the freed up torque for sure.

Last edited by TLdub; 05-01-2012 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by TLdub View Post
6. The thermostat is pretty easy compared to all the other stuff but be prepared for another waterfall of coolant if you don't drain everything out of the block.
You must have had a hell of a time, because the Tstat is probably the 2nd worst part of this job.

Very little coolant should come out during the Tstat replacement. Did you replace the water pump?

Glad you got it done though.

In regards to the LW CP... no comment.

Last edited by Majofo; 05-01-2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: VTAKK just kicked in Yo!
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:46 PM
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Welllll, I guess I forgot to mention that I replaced the water pump, and we were going to just forget about the thermostat and do it later because I was getting impatient, so we filled the radiator again haha, I then drained it.... again back into the old containers before doing the thermostat. When we refilled it is probably when the coolant got back into the engine ha . Soo I guess what I said works if you are just replacing the thermostat and not the water pump. I thought the thermostat was cake after banging my knuckles trying to get in that little a$$ space! The cam case was a reall pain, and I was tempted sooo many times to rip that dam power steering fluid resivoir out! All i needed was a little extension to get at the bottom bolt under the thermostat. I used a little pry bar to get the old thermostat out and the new one popped right in. Nooo troubles in the thermostat department.

What don't you like about the CP? Is it just the controversy behind it or you have some other quarrel? I just thought I would do it if I am taking the old crank off. I had a lightweight flywheel on my other car and I liked it so I thought I would like a LW CP on this car and so far I do. All I really plan on doing is exhaust, intake, and the CP for now. There's not many other adjustments you can do short of a supercharger from what it seems so I thought I might as well do as many of em as I can to see if I can see a difference.

Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
You must have had a hell of a time, because the Tstat is probably the 2nd worst part of this job.

Very little coolant should come out during the Tstat replacement. Did you replace the water pump?

Glad you got it done though.

In regards to the LW CP... no comment.

Last edited by TLdub; 05-01-2012 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 05-01-2012, 04:56 PM
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@ Tstat.

My meaty hands don't make the tstat job any easier.. no job for that fact.

In regards to LW CP, nothing really against it.. and definitely not worth discussing here. It has it's benefits. What matters is you're happy with it.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:01 PM
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i got my kit in the other day! i'm kind of excited to try it...but at the same time, i'm only into year 8 and at 68k miles...i dont necessarily want to mess with something that's working (but then again i dont want to wait till it breaks).

Maybe memorial weekend is when i'll try it.

I'm definitely just going to have a shop zip the CP bolt loose for me and then bring it home before doing anything.
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Old 05-01-2012, 05:07 PM
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I forgot to mention.. I thought my side engine mount was bad.. I had no idea how bad it actually was.

I finally replaced it. Still contemplating window welding the void on the old one.. but at this point.. I think it's gone too far.

Something you guys might want to consider when doing the 105k service. Not that it's a PITA to do later. Just a thought.
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
I forgot to mention.. I thought my side engine mount was bad.. I had no idea how bad it actually was.

I finally replaced it. Still contemplating window welding the void on the old one.. but at this point.. I think it's gone too far.

Something you guys might want to consider when doing the 105k service. Not that it's a PITA to do later. Just a thought.
How could you tell it was bad? I noticed you accidentally put a hole in that rubber cover in one of your pics. Mine looks in pretty good shape. I could move that piece that came out and attached to the side brackets without too much effort but it seems sturdy. One thing I did notice was the the front bolt was corroded as shiat. I let it sit in solvent and steel brushed it but there was so much rust eating at it. It probably wouldn't hurt to at least replace that bolt. How much did you pay for a new mount?
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Old 05-07-2012, 12:50 PM
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Yeah, the securing bolt locations are prone to corrosion.

I knew mine was gone because the shield cap was broken, what I didn't investigate was underneath the cap. At one point or on several occasions, the mount bracket had actually smacked the supporting lip of the mount. The rubber of the mount neck had torn and shredded so bad, I was surprised it was even still attached.
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:13 PM
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Hey guys, great info on this thread, I am feeling confident enough to undertake this myself on my 2002 MDX @ 155,000KM's next month (yes I realize it is 3 yrs over due), I just have a couple of quick questions:

1. Someone mentioned you can get the crank holder tool from Napa (see below link)...can anyone verify this one works because it is 2" and not 50mm (2" = 51.08mm)

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Ca...970_0080863165

2. It doesn't sound like any of you have replaced your cam/crank seals while doing the 105k service...is this too much of a hassle or is the thought process that they are pretty much bullet proof? (Maybe it would make sense for me to do this on a 10 yr old vehicle?)

Thanks!
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Old 05-16-2012, 01:28 PM
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^^^
#1. Not sure. I rented mine for free from Oreilly's.

#2. Not bulletproof, but I didn't see a reason to mess with them.

Good luck!
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by nfnsquared View Post
^^^
#1. Not sure. I rented mine for free from Oreilly's.

#2. Not bulletproof, but I didn't see a reason to mess with them.

Good luck!
Thanks...I am on the fence about these seals!

Almost forgot to ask, did you need a puller kit to remove the harmonic balancer?
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:53 PM
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Yes that's the tool. BTW: Step 1 should be breaking the crank bolt loose as it's the hardest part of the job. No sense taking everything else out only to find you can't get the damn bolt off. It may keep you from wasting many hours of your life.

Skip the seals. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And if you ever do have a leak sometime down the road, you will be able to fix them quite quickly since you already know your way around in there.

And no you don't need a puller. The crank pully slides right off.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:37 PM
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Well, saying that the crank pulley "slides right off" certainly is not accurate in my case. Some PB Blaster (be careful not to get the sensor wet) and a lot of effort from the 10-finger tool should get it off eventually
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Old 05-16-2012, 04:18 PM
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I did my crank and cam seals. Although it seems very evident that they don't leak after 105K, I was not willing to risk that they might leak before 210K since I will own my car then. The main seal and balance shaft seal both started to leak before the the 2nd timing belt was due.

I just used the starter to break the crank bolt loose - make sure that the plugs are out (or unplugged) if you do this.
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:10 AM
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Timing belt tip

Thanks for the awesome post, another tip I learned form a tech was when putting the new timing belt on use zip ties to secure the belt to the back cam, then once tight around the front cam zip tie the belt on the front cam, then once you have gotten the belt around the crank and up to the tensioner pulley zip tie the belt from the left and right to hold tension on the right side. Once you pull the pin on the hydraulic tensioner carefully cut the zip ties off, best way I know how not to skip a tooth!!

Hopes the tip helps!!
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Old 05-21-2012, 11:53 AM
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^In doing that you would be threading the belt backwards ya know. You want to install the belt in this order

- crank pulley over to idler pulley to front cam
- front cam under water pump to rear cam
- rear cam over tensioner pulley
- Then pull the pin

This ensures you have all the belt slack on the back side with the tensioner. It's really not that hard. If you have the slack in the wrong spot (between crank & front pulley...or...between front cam & rear cam), you won't be able to slip the belt over the tensioner pulley whatsoever.
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:15 PM
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Ok. Let me first preface this with, this was my first timing belt job. Thank you so so much to the OP for this write up. It helped immensely!!!
My brother and I started this job about 10AM on Saturday morning. There we were looking at the engine, and we just dove in, taking stuff off. We followed the write up step for step on the removal. All went well taking off the bigger hardware, but when we got to the removal of the (3) timing covers, that was a major PITA!!!!!!! Now, it would have been much easier if either myself or my brother were left handed, and had little tiny miniature hands. But since we are neither, there was quite a but of cussing to be had to get those little bolts out.
Moving on, when it came time to remove the old TB, when I was taking it off of the cam gears, which were set to TDC, the cam closest to the firewall spun counter clockwise about 1/4 turn It is then that I SHAT MYSELF!!! I thought that I had totally screwed myself and that the engine was going to bend every valve on that side of the motor on first start. So, after I calmed down just a bit, and did some research. I was certain that the cam did not make a full revolution, and only made a 1/4 turn. I turned it back clockwise until back to TDC.
We continued with all the removal of the corresponding pullies and tensioner and WP. Then did a little cleaning, and started to install all the new hardware. All of that went off w/o a hitch. Smooth sailing, so we thought. When it came time to install the new TB, we were extra careful to make sure that the Crank was still at TDC, and the cams were still there as well. I had to make sure that there was not going to be contact, so we turned the motor by hand about six revolutions after the TB was back on, and heard nothing and didn't feel anything abnormal. So we continued reinstalling what we had taken off. After we got the timing covers back on, we noticed that the engine mount bracket had to go on BEFORE the timing covers. So off with those PITA covers again. After the mount, covers, CP, and serpentine belt were back on, we turned the engine by hand to check one more time for any internal contact. Everything sounded good, so we stepped back, held our breath, and turned the ignition. She started right up, and purred like a kitten.

So, moral of the story: This was a serious PITA job for a couple of rookies to take on. But, in the end, I am very pleased with the turn out. I can now do anything to this car. Ok, maybe not anything but most work, and my wallet is a little fatter for it. And it only took us about 10 hours to complete it. Not bad. Next............
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:18 PM
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Old 05-28-2012, 02:38 PM
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would something like this help with those timing cover bolts?
Amazon Amazon
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ez12a View Post
would something like this help with those timing cover bolts?
http://www.amazon.com/Stanley-89-962...8233847&sr=1-1
No. Only the forearms and hands of a 10-year old boy will help .

Last edited by nfnsquared; 05-28-2012 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:09 PM
  #398  
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Originally Posted by Sinistr View Post
...After we got the timing covers back on, we noticed that the engine mount bracket had to go on BEFORE the timing covers. ...
Guess you missed my warning in post #200:

Originally Posted by nfnsquared View Post
When re-assembling, be sure you put the side mount bracket on before you put on the lower tb cover. Oopsy!"
And as noted several times in this thread, the cams just move 1/4 turn or so due to valve spring pressure. Not a big deal.

Congrats on a successful job!!

P.S. Mojofo. Maybe you can get a Mod Edit to add a blurb about installing the side mount bracket before the lower TB cover...

Last edited by nfnsquared; 05-28-2012 at 03:12 PM.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:25 PM
  #399  
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nfn: Sure did miss that post I thought I was going to need a defibrillator when that happened
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:01 PM
  #400  
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Originally Posted by nfnsquared View Post
P.S. Mojofo. Maybe you can get a Mod Edit to add a blurb about installing the side mount bracket before the lower TB cover...
I thought that was obvious



Yeah, step 14 should say:

"Install side mount bracket first then replace timing covers,.."
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