japlover08

Hey guys,

Wish my first post on this board wasn't for such a negative thing like this...

I really need your advice/help.

I just bought an 08 Type-S 6MT from auction, 15,000 miles. It was MINT yesterday, today, someone did some serious damage to it. The car was used for government emissions testing and kept indoors. It's basically a beautiful brand new Blue pearl 08 Type-S. I paid 25K plus taxes.

4 different things were vandalised/stolen from my new car this morning:

1. Sunroof switch and possibly bluetooth module

Either right before or right after the car was auctioned, someone ripped out the roof console part that holds the map light/sunroof switch/homelink/etc.. By rip, I mean broke all the plastic parts that are screwed into the metal in the roof.

There is a part missing, it's the part that's behind the sunroof switch, the sunroof cannot be closed by the button because theres no circuit board behind it. I could only close the sunroof by putting the key in the door.

2. #31 and #33 fuses removed from the drivers side interior fuse panel. something about HVAC and something else.

3. rear bench seat plastic fasteners were broken. The 2 plastic parts that have tabs that you can pull to lift up the rear bench. Plastic parts were completely broken by someone forcing the bench up.

4. VSA stuck on and car stumbles when started. Barely any engine power to get moving. No CEL on. Can this be related to the #31 and 33 fuses missing? Underneath the hood fuse box seems OK, but the VSA 40amp fuse sticks up higher than the other 40amp ones right beside it. It cannot be pressed down any farther.

Here are the pictures:

http://s1142.photobucket.com/albums/n606/japlover08/

My questions:

1. What do you think was stolen from the roof part?

2. Would the missing #31 and 33 fuses cause the car to idle rough and have no power?

3. Is the underhood 40amp VSA fuse supposed to be raised up higher than the other fuses?

4. Could someone have screwed around with spark plug wires to cause the car to run rough? What could cause the car to idle rough with no CEL but VSA stuck on?

5. What would you do if you were me? I paid a $1000 deposit on the car that sold for $25k. Canadian dollars, these TL-S's are still more expensive in Canada.

If I walk away I lose the deposit and am banned from the auction house. Auction house said they might be willing to have their own tech fix these issues but for all I know they will glue it back together with no bluetooth module.

I'm freaking out about what else they could have done to my car that's otherwise perfect. I'm also freaked about buying a 600$ bluetooth module from the dealer.

The car still has 1 year of full warranty left, car was built in april 08. The warranty wont cover obvious damage or missing parts.

NEED HELP. Freaking out. Really want this car but dont want to have a future nightmare of a car.

Thanks in advance, I'm really looking forward to what you guys have to say.

Cheers,

Aaron

Will Y.

Where did the damage occur? It shouldn't be your problem if the damage occurred at the auction house's premises.

1) Your last picture shows all the parts in place-- the HFL module is the rectangular metal box in the front section of that console.

4) This would bother me-- the VSA light and the fact that the car is in "limp mode," based on your description of "having barely any engine power."
You need to read the codes with an OBDII code reader to tell why the car is misfiring or idling improperly-- it could be a bad coil, a bad EGR valve, or...

5) Was the car deemed delivered to you after the deposit? If not, it shouldn't be your problem if the damage occurred before then. However, you need to look at the paperwork that you signed when handing over the deposit to see if it will permit you to get your money back and .

G/L.

japlover08

All the cars there are sold as is, they said that I should have looked at the car before bidding on it. I did. I looked at it yesterday and this morning before the damage happened.

Auction guy said that the part was damaged like that when he drove through the auction lane.

There IS a missing part. The circuit board that controls the sunroof is missing, the sunroof cannot be opened or closed.

Other pictures I've seen have had the bluetooth module attached to bracket itself, but theres no circuit boards attached to the plastic peice Im holding in my hand.

The car ran PERFECT yesterday, someone messed arround with a fuse or wires under the hood to put it in limp mode. Im sure its something small that would be an easy thing to switch back for whoever did this.

Whoever did this probably thought the car would sell for less with these issues.

Thanks for your help!

OK I looked at the picture again and I agree the HFL is still there, lets now focus on the part where the sunroof switch is, there looks to be a board missing that would be sandwitched between the button and the dangling part attached to the wire.

Will Y.

The sunroof button is not plugged in.
There should be a multi-pin connector connected to the blue-wrapped wiring that plugs-in horizontally to the top of the sunroof switch.

Check the wire at each coil. Put fuses 31 and 33 back in to see how the car runs. There should be extra fuses in the under-dash fuse box; the owner's manual has a fuse diagram if the ones on the fuse box covers are unclear.

japlover08

OK great thanks for your help.

Can you clarify what you mean by the sunroof connector not being plugged in? The circuit board has seperated from the switch side of it, it really seems like there is a piece missing between the back of the button and the circuit board.

The green connector is plugged in to the blue connector on the circuit board.

Here's a new picture:



I tried putting it back together but it definitely is either broken or missing a piece. What do you think?

I had looked at all the fuses underhood, they were all there and in the right spots.

The only fuses that were missing were the #31 and #33 fuses from the in car drivers side fuse panel.

I know this is a stretch, but would anyone here be willing to try pulling those 2 fuses to see how their car runs? I doubt these 2 fuses would cause the car to go into limp mode.


My problem is that I can't try these things on the car myself before I pay the off balance. I can refuse to pay but then I lose my deposit.


Finally -- What would you do, knowing what I paid and my choices ahead? Should I just buy it and bring it to the dealer for a diagnosis and repair? Should I walk away?

Thanks again!

Will Y.

It looks like the sunroof switch is actually broken: the green piece is the multi-pin connector and is attached, but the top of the switch (looks blue) is severed/broken off from the bottom part of the switch which is in the console housing-- that should be one assembly, with nothing in between. A new sunroof switch can be popped onto the green connector.

Pop the hood and check each ignition coil to see if that solves the stumbling/erratic idle.

When you turn the key, does the CEL light come on, then turn off?

BTW, fuse positions 31 and 33 may be empty spots-- I've seen references to the empty fuse spaces for 31 and 33, designated OP2 and HAC on a search of the threads here.

1islandparadise

Im very sorry this happened man. I've read your thread several times and can't believe the auction is actually having you buy the car like this for that price. Fixed or not, this is not what you bought. I owned a 07 TL-S and was looking for another 07-08 for quite awhile and one of the first things I did on ALL the Type-S was go into diagnostic mode and see what stored messages was in the car.


EDIT:
Go into "SETUP" (if other members can verify) and click on "ALL MESSAGES" This gives you all codes that came up on the car since it came off the showroom floor. It also tells you WHEN it happened. Like I said its been awhile since I sold my TL but just scroll through the navi screen and look for something that says "ALL MESSAGES." It will give you all the codes and when it happened. I hope this helps!:Thumbsup:

japlover08

Thanks for the support, couldn't agree with you more. That's not what I paid for. I paid top dollar for basically a brand new 3 year old car that had no damage.


Will Y. -- The CEL lights up but turns off when the car is running, the VSA is stuck off with the "!" and the car was in limp mode. I bet the CEL would come on if the car was revved much or driven any distance. It's probably a disconnected coil, because a missing sensor should throw a CEL immediately.

I'm supposed to be meeting with the head guy from the auction place on Monday so we'll see what he says. I'll keep you guys in the loop either way.

I'll probably bring a code reader and also do the diagnostic mode as you suggested.

I might be able to walk away from this car without penalty because of the circumstances, but at the same time, I still really want(ed) this car.

Maybe they'll drop some $$ off my bill (I'd probably only be satisfied with 3-4K off).

I have a real decision to make. Take a gamble and hopefully get some $$ knocked off the car and pray that it's only a few superficial things that can be easily fixed, or just walk away and not take the risk.

If it was your money, would you try to get some money knocked off and take a gamble that not much was actually broken? Or walk away?

I'm coming from an 07 mazda3 GT, I dont mind keeping my Mazda a bit longer if that's what I should do. Tough call!!

ONE MORE THING -- There were oval shaped rubber pieces that were in the cup holders and I couldnt find where they came from. These look like plugs for the firewall or vibration absorbtion pieces. About 2 inches long by 1 inch wide, 1/4inch thick. Anyone have any idea about this?

I wish I took more pictures but I was really in such shock that I wasn't thinking straight.

Thanks for the advice.

Aaron

1islandparadise

Aaron,

Definitely bring the code reader, but the cool thing I remember about the 07-08 TL-S is that the "All messages" reads the stored codes all the way back from brand new. I think all 04-08 TL w/ navi can do this. Kinda a neat feature.

It's really a hard call to purchase or not for that price, mileage, with the damages (issues). I think $25K w/ 15K miles is a smoking deal, in the US, especially in Canada as you said. Possibly see if you can take it to an Acura dealer for estimates.


**Just a thought, when you take a look at it Monday, take the key fob and press unlock twice and hold it down on the second time. All the windows open and the sunroof should open to. Also put the key in the key hole and tap it to the left twice and hold and tap it to the right twice and hold. This will bring the windows and sunroof up/down.

**Take pics of the inside fuse box (drivers side kick panel), under the hood fuse panel, the dash with the car running (show all the errors), and maybe even a video of a test drive and what is in the stored "All messages" menu.

japlover08

Donnie, are these codes displayed on the navigation screen or the LCD under the speedometer?

The navi is locked probably because of a dead/disconnected battery. Need to call acura for the unlock code.

I had tried the windows, they go up and down when the key is put into the door lock. That's how I closed the sunroof before leaving the car parked there.

Thanks,

Aaron

Will Y.

The Navi and radio codes are 4- and 5- digit numbers; they are given to owners on a card that people often put in the owner's manual holder.
Some people write the numbers in the manual; techs often put the numbers on a sticker in the glove compartment or on the under-hood fuse box cover.

Yes, the car seems to need just a new sunroof switch to have the sunroof work fully. I wouldn't be surprised if the sunroof operates if the two pieces of the existing sunroof switch are held together while using the switch.

japlover08

Great tips, unfortunately I looked all over the glove box and owners manual but I couldnt find the navi #. I bet someone grabbed the card or removed the sticker.

I also tried putting the sunroof switch back together (I'm good with my hands and electronics) but it wouldnt work.

Either there's a piece missing or the connector part had wire damage from being forced down.

This part is probably the least of my worries. Unless they swapped out the bluetooth module for a bad one.

The back seat plastic fasteners being broken is strange. Are there any valuable electronics underneath the back seat that someone could have stolen or tampered with?

I'm concerned about the engine and the chance that other weird things were done to this car.

Then again it could be just minor things disconnected and broken.

We'll see what happens tomorrow.

Thanks for the help so far!!

Aaron

1islandparadise

Aaron,

The codes are in the navigation screen itself. I believe you press the "SETUP" button under the navi screen and then it has an option for "ALL MESSAGES." Like I said its been awhile since I was looking for another Type S but I know any of the board members with 04-08 TL with Navigation can confirm this.

What black plastic fasteners in the rear are you talking about? Has the car been in a previous accident or had a salvage title? I would still definitely see what the auction place has to off and see when Acura says about it. Good luck!

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I would get your $$$ back and stay away from auctions. If this damage was there when the car was auctioned, it should have been mentioned. This and the limp mode thing sounds very questionable. I wouldn't be surprised to find they are lying about the previous owner. The difference between a TL with 15k on it and one with 40k is only wear on the inside, the car should drive the same.

japlover08

The damage happened about an hour before the car was put through the auction lane, it was 100% pristine the morning of the auction. I checked it out 3 different times and it was perfect.Underneath the seats are the 2 rubber grommets with the wheel sensor cables passing through them. I'm thinking they probably stole or disconnected the wheel sensors and thats throwing the car into limp mode with VSA stuck off.Donnie: The rear seat is held down by 2 black plastic pieces that accept metal U hooks attached to the bottom of the rear seat cushion.The rear seat can be lifted up by pulling these 2 little black plastic pieces forward. Its 2 spring loaded plastic tabs that pass through the U hooks to hold the seat down. If you dont pull out these spring loaded tabs and force the seat up, the plastic fasteners break. These pieces look cheap, but im now convinced someone stole or tampered with the rear wheel sensors. Why else would you lift up the seat cushion? Theres nothing else underneath there.I figured this out after looking at DIY fixes for the rear grommet leak through the wheel sensor braided wire that passes underneath the seat.Hope that's it!

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I forgot to say that if you look on the side of the glove box there is often the navi and radio codes. I would also check the trunk to see if the navi disc is in there.

RainSupreme

All of these signs are pointing to the direction of not getting this car, I know when I was looking for mine I wouldn't want to have to go through all of this hassel. Plus it seems like bullshit that this happened on the auction grounds, you would think it would be secure there, sounds like a shady deal to me!

Donnie, thanks for the info on being able to read all of the old messages, I didn't know that and am going to check it out tomorrow

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Dont buy the car bro. Not worth it, for all you know someone could have piss and pour sugar into the gas tank.

Someone was probably bitter that you bought their car.

japlover08

Hey guys, here's what ended up happening.

I spoke with the guy from the auction house, they're going to fix the car themselves.

They gave me the option to accept the car after they fix it (having their own guy fix it, not the dealer) or giving me my money back and not blacklisting me from future auctions.

As you can imagine I'm going to get my money back.

I came so close to owning a beautiful 08 Type-S 6MT but I guess it wasnt mean't to be.

Thank you everyone for your help and support.

Aaron

romel893

Considering that it was vandalized, I would've kept it . The TL-S 6MT is my dream car.
But since it was $25K, good choice you made about not keeping it. Sucks that it wasn't meant to be.. but hey! there will always be another TL out there for you!

dragonsking91

i would walk away too. U did the right thing.

tones160

u did the right thing dude

japlover08

Thanks guys, I feel better knowing that other people would have made the same decision.

As bad as I wanted that car, I wasnt comfortable with a patch up repair job and all the unknowns.

Chances are it was fine, but knowing my track record with cars, something MAJOR would have broken.

Here's my car luck:

First car -- 1990 Honda accord with a brand new paint job.

First week of owning the car, someone keyed the paint from tail light to headlight (down to the metal).

First year of owning the car, someone took a brick to my windshield, door, and back window.

Third year of ownership, 2 separate break ins, stole my deck both times. I even had a Viper dual siren car alarm, didnt stop them.

Second car -- 1994 Honda Prelude with an engine swap

Held up at gun point when trying to sell the car.

When the guy was waving his gun around I heard rattling, I figured he was probably using a BB handgun. I took a swing at him and got back in the car. Before I could get away he smashed the side of the car twice with the butt of his gun. $2000 damage.

Third car: 2005 Mazda 3 GT lease

First year of ownership a delivery driver couldn't hold their door on a really windy day and smashed my passenger side door. Dent was the size of a basketball around my door handle. The impact hit the door handle which pushed all the metal around the door handle in. Could not be pulled out, needed door replacement.

Fourth car: 1996 Nissan Maxima SE

Of course nothing happened to this car because it was the least expensive and most banged up one I've owned. Manual transmission and an LSD this car was a total sleeper.

Fifth (my current vehicle) -- 2007 Mazda3 GT

First year of owning this car, the landscapers at my work sand blasted the front and side of my car with weed whackers and leaf blowers. Leaf blowers were "cleaning" the dirt and rocks from of the parking lot and onto my car. These were real low lifes that made a point to sandblast my new car. The car is black and now looks permanently dirty from all the white primer now showing.

Sixth car -- The perfect TL that was vandalized. God only knows what else would have happened to this car under my ownership!!!


So, sorry for the rant, but this was the real reason why I just didnt want to take a chance on this particular TL-S. Knowing my luck and track record, I would probably eventually be hit and killed by a meteor.

Will Y.

I wouldn't take the chance on that TL-S either-- there are others that'll be available. G/L!

Please stay away from California while the UARS is coming down.

tones160

lol oh lord, u actually manage to make me feel bad for u with cars.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

wow dude what area do u live in?

japlover08

I live in Canada's Capital -- Ottawa, Ontario. Funny thing is that Ottawa is a really good city with a relatively low crime rate. I'm just a magnet for this type of shit!

Aside from when I owned my 1990 Honda Accord, I've lived in good areas.

My girlfriend at the time lived downtown and 1990-1993 Accords with power locks were one of the easiest cars to break in to. All you needed was a flat head screw driver and a coat hanger and you've got yourself a deck without a faceplate... They still stole my 2 decks WITHOUT the faceplate!

I'm probably going to stick with my Mazda3 a bit longer, there's so many here that it doesnt stand out and I'm liking that more and more.

I'm going to get a 6MT TL eventually. Of course you guys will be the first to know!

Cheers,

Aaron

aznfrenchboyca

Hello everyone, I just purchase a an 08 TL-S and I am new to this forum. I was wondering if anyonee knew how to fix #3 "rear bench seat plastic fasteners were broken. The 2 plastic parts that have tabs that you can pull to lift up the rear bench. Plastic parts were completely broken by someone forcing the bench up."?
I have the same issue and I am not sure if that is covered by the warranty.

RainSupreme

LIQUID0401

Thats a really good price I think you have can have all the issues worked out for a good price and still come out on top.

1islandparadise

Glad I could help another member. I cannot explain how many times Acurazine has gotten me out of a tough jam when I had my TL.

Aaron,

I think you made a great decision and I'm glad the auction didn't blacklist you for a mistake on their part.

WOW!! Well if you ever need any info on another Acura you definitely know where to go! Your luck will change and your Diamond in the rough is out there waiting for you!

RainSupreme

^^ Went to look for that messages folder the other night and the only thing that resembled what you mentioned "messages" and it wasn't highlighted/able to be clicked on

JORTS

Any idea why someone would vandalize and or steal these random parts on this TL? Doesn't it seem really random? There r Much easier parts to steal that r worth more money off that car....

tones160

may be some random bum wanted to screw the OP over.