View Poll Results: 05 auto or 06 MT
Keep the auto
5
18.52%
Trade for the MT
22
81.48%
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05 with auto vs 06 with MT
02-01-2018, 04:00 PM
#1
10th Gear
Thread Starter
05 with auto vs 06 with MT
So I recently (2 months or so ago) picked up on 05 with nav. Really clean car, all the service was done, records came with the car, the whole 9 yards. Got it for a steal, and up until yesterday, never had a second thought about it. Was a perfect DD.
Then, customer walks into the dealership i work at, and ends up trading an 06 with less miles, and a manual transmission. Instant jealousy. Drove the car, and before it heads off to auction, I’ve got the chance to trade mine on it. Here is what i’m looking at
my current 05- has nav (dont use), all service is up to date, 134k miles, timing belt/WP has been done, auto trans
the 06- no nav, needs the 105k service done, 103k miles on it, 6MT, after the service is done its probably a 1500-2000 jump up in price from my old one.
just looking for opinions here. I know that its up to me and all that stuff, just trying to get an outside point of view. Is 30K less miles and a manual transmission worth say $2000?
Then, customer walks into the dealership i work at, and ends up trading an 06 with less miles, and a manual transmission. Instant jealousy. Drove the car, and before it heads off to auction, I’ve got the chance to trade mine on it. Here is what i’m looking at
my current 05- has nav (dont use), all service is up to date, 134k miles, timing belt/WP has been done, auto trans
the 06- no nav, needs the 105k service done, 103k miles on it, 6MT, after the service is done its probably a 1500-2000 jump up in price from my old one.
just looking for opinions here. I know that its up to me and all that stuff, just trying to get an outside point of view. Is 30K less miles and a manual transmission worth say $2000?
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DMZ (02-03-2018)
02-01-2018, 04:25 PM
#3
If you really like it and all the normal 3G issues are in good shape (Compliance bushings, ball joints, engine mounts, etc.) then get it. Is it on the original clutch? Have the TB service done at a Honda dealership or good independent shop and you'll save quite a bit.
02-01-2018, 04:26 PM
#4
Suzuka Master
this forum filled with 3G enthusiast so majority will tell you get the MT but here is something you might want to consider.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
02-01-2018, 05:10 PM
#5
I'm really happy with my car, but it's an auto. Was thinking many times about switching it up, but I'm stuck with payments, and it just doesn't make sense financially (can't really do it right now).
If I would be able to switch for a car in similar shape for $2000, I totally would.
If I would be able to switch for a car in similar shape for $2000, I totally would.
02-01-2018, 05:18 PM
#6
this forum filled with 3G enthusiast so majority will tell you get the MT but here is something you might want to consider.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
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teh CL (02-01-2018)
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02-01-2018, 05:20 PM
#8
Senior Moderator
no brainer bruh
02-01-2018, 07:03 PM
#11
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No contest, the 6-Speed Manual is the far superior car.
Regarding clutch life; can't say I've ever heard of any clutches failing south of the 100,000 mile mark, even with the stupid Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) in the slave cylinder. My car has the original clutch at 130,000+ miles and while it is clearly on its last legs, I attribute much of the wear to the CDV; I've already purchased a new dual-mass flywheel, a new clutch disc and pressure plate, and a new slave cylinder (from which I will remove the CDV). I expect the new clutch to last for the rest of the life of the car.
Regarding clutch life; can't say I've ever heard of any clutches failing south of the 100,000 mile mark, even with the stupid Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) in the slave cylinder. My car has the original clutch at 130,000+ miles and while it is clearly on its last legs, I attribute much of the wear to the CDV; I've already purchased a new dual-mass flywheel, a new clutch disc and pressure plate, and a new slave cylinder (from which I will remove the CDV). I expect the new clutch to last for the rest of the life of the car.
02-01-2018, 07:27 PM
#12
Suzuka Master
CDV suppose to be damper the clutch to make MT operate smoother but its a complete joke when you drive heavy footed. I am so glad my legend didn't come with this stupid device.
02-01-2018, 08:04 PM
#13
Suzuka Master
iTrader: (2)
this forum filled with 3G enthusiast so majority will tell you get the MT but here is something you might want to consider.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
OP, my car is sold to the third owner and the original clutch is holding strong at 140k.
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teh CL (02-01-2018)
02-01-2018, 09:16 PM
#14
Drifting
Didn't we just have this argument about transmission reliability regarding autos last week?
Here is what I remember on the forums regarding clutches over the years....back in the earlier years, I do recall reading multiple threads about failed clutches fairly early in the life of the vehicle. But I do not recall continuing to see posts like that as the vehicles have aged out. Yes we see failed clutch posts...but most of those posts are vehicles with over 100k on the clutch. We still see failed auto transmission posts unfortunately.
There is also another thread going on talking about the most miles on the original clutch. There is a sampling of us that are well over 100k now....some even over 200k. Now that is only a small sampling for sure...but still about all the "fact" we have to go off of.
Is the TL the easiest MT to drive? Not one bit. Can you destroy a clutch in 25k miles? You betcha.
Here is what I remember on the forums regarding clutches over the years....back in the earlier years, I do recall reading multiple threads about failed clutches fairly early in the life of the vehicle. But I do not recall continuing to see posts like that as the vehicles have aged out. Yes we see failed clutch posts...but most of those posts are vehicles with over 100k on the clutch. We still see failed auto transmission posts unfortunately.
There is also another thread going on talking about the most miles on the original clutch. There is a sampling of us that are well over 100k now....some even over 200k. Now that is only a small sampling for sure...but still about all the "fact" we have to go off of.
Is the TL the easiest MT to drive? Not one bit. Can you destroy a clutch in 25k miles? You betcha.
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02-02-2018, 08:34 AM
#15
Suzuka Master
Didn't we just have this argument about transmission reliability regarding autos last week?
Here is what I remember on the forums regarding clutches over the years....back in the earlier years, I do recall reading multiple threads about failed clutches fairly early in the life of the vehicle. But I do not recall continuing to see posts like that as the vehicles have aged out. Yes we see failed clutch posts...but most of those posts are vehicles with over 100k on the clutch. We still see failed auto transmission posts unfortunately.
There is also another thread going on talking about the most miles on the original clutch. There is a sampling of us that are well over 100k now....some even over 200k. Now that is only a small sampling for sure...but still about all the "fact" we have to go off of.
Is the TL the easiest MT to drive? Not one bit. Can you destroy a clutch in 25k miles? You betcha.
Here is what I remember on the forums regarding clutches over the years....back in the earlier years, I do recall reading multiple threads about failed clutches fairly early in the life of the vehicle. But I do not recall continuing to see posts like that as the vehicles have aged out. Yes we see failed clutch posts...but most of those posts are vehicles with over 100k on the clutch. We still see failed auto transmission posts unfortunately.
There is also another thread going on talking about the most miles on the original clutch. There is a sampling of us that are well over 100k now....some even over 200k. Now that is only a small sampling for sure...but still about all the "fact" we have to go off of.
Is the TL the easiest MT to drive? Not one bit. Can you destroy a clutch in 25k miles? You betcha.
My brother in laws bought an 06 TL since mid 2006 and now have 175k miles on the original AT with no sign of slippage or dying
I just don't want OP to be surprise when that clutch does goes
1. after all crab boy clutch died around 30k miles.
2. James TL-S start slipping around 70k miles....
3. JJH bought the car and it started to slipped at high RPM
4. Austin bought the car that originated from JJH that even after a new clutch replacement he stated it started to slipped very little after a year (in this case I suspect because the car power that put down to the wheel)
5. Horseshoe also said his clutch starting to slip around 130k miles and I am pretty sure his ride is stock and he doesn't Vtec to redline all the time.
02-02-2018, 09:44 AM
#17
Latent car nut
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02-02-2018, 10:36 AM
#19
AZ Community Team
6MT FTMFW
of course I'm also pretty biased 2005 TL 6MT w/o Nav NBP
of course I'm also pretty biased 2005 TL 6MT w/o Nav NBP
02-02-2018, 10:39 AM
#20
Senior Moderator
02-03-2018, 03:07 PM
#22
Didn't we just have this argument about transmission reliability regarding autos last week?
Here is what I remember on the forums regarding clutches over the years....back in the earlier years, I do recall reading multiple threads about failed clutches fairly early in the life of the vehicle. But I do not recall continuing to see posts like that as the vehicles have aged out. Yes we see failed clutch posts...but most of those posts are vehicles with over 100k on the clutch. We still see failed auto transmission posts unfortunately.
Here is what I remember on the forums regarding clutches over the years....back in the earlier years, I do recall reading multiple threads about failed clutches fairly early in the life of the vehicle. But I do not recall continuing to see posts like that as the vehicles have aged out. Yes we see failed clutch posts...but most of those posts are vehicles with over 100k on the clutch. We still see failed auto transmission posts unfortunately.
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llllBULLSEYE (02-03-2018)
02-03-2018, 05:47 PM
#23
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The problem with this logic is here on this forum the preponderance of automatic equipped cars doesn't seem to exist. Said another way, I'd be surprised if the 3G TL Automatic members here have much more than a three to one advantage (heck, it might be less than a two to one advantage); in the real world it is slightly more than twenty to one.
02-03-2018, 10:29 PM
#24
Drifting
The problem with any logic on these forums are that we do not have any hard numbers or facts to back anything. This is all opinion and theories we have inferred from the limited data provided.
So in summary....these cars are old now and the transmissions may fail unexpectedly. Don't care if it is auto or MT. Auto gives some warning signs usually...if you notice them. MT clutch gives pretty much zilch for warning.
So in summary....these cars are old now and the transmissions may fail unexpectedly. Don't care if it is auto or MT. Auto gives some warning signs usually...if you notice them. MT clutch gives pretty much zilch for warning.
02-04-2018, 08:29 AM
#25
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The problem with any logic on these forums are that we do not have any hard numbers or facts to back anything. This is all opinion and theories we have inferred from the limited data provided.
So in summary....these cars are old now and the transmissions may fail unexpectedly. Don't care if it is auto or MT. Auto gives some warning signs usually...if you notice them. MT clutch gives pretty much zilch for warning.
So in summary....these cars are old now and the transmissions may fail unexpectedly. Don't care if it is auto or MT. Auto gives some warning signs usually...if you notice them. MT clutch gives pretty much zilch for warning.
02-04-2018, 10:48 AM
#26
Moderator
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I guess you personally knew the other two previous owner
Yes I know the 04-06 AT isn't reliable but you also need to consider the production ratio from MT to AT you can see why AT still showing failing more often, isn't the number something like 40 auto to 1 manual got sold? now let say flip the production ratio around and see how much clutch failure of clutch vs AT.
My brother in laws bought an 06 TL since mid 2006 and now have 175k miles on the original AT with no sign of slippage or dying
I just don't want OP to be surprise when that clutch does goes
1. after all crab boy clutch died around 30k miles.
2. James TL-S start slipping around 70k miles....
3. JJH bought the car and it started to slipped at high RPM
4. Austin bought the car that originated from JJH that even after a new clutch replacement he stated it started to slipped very little after a year (in this case I suspect because the car power that put down to the wheel)
5. Horseshoe also said his clutch starting to slip around 130k miles and I am pretty sure his ride is stock and he doesn't Vtec to redline all the time.
Yes I know the 04-06 AT isn't reliable but you also need to consider the production ratio from MT to AT you can see why AT still showing failing more often, isn't the number something like 40 auto to 1 manual got sold? now let say flip the production ratio around and see how much clutch failure of clutch vs AT.
My brother in laws bought an 06 TL since mid 2006 and now have 175k miles on the original AT with no sign of slippage or dying
I just don't want OP to be surprise when that clutch does goes
1. after all crab boy clutch died around 30k miles.
2. James TL-S start slipping around 70k miles....
3. JJH bought the car and it started to slipped at high RPM
4. Austin bought the car that originated from JJH that even after a new clutch replacement he stated it started to slipped very little after a year (in this case I suspect because the car power that put down to the wheel)
5. Horseshoe also said his clutch starting to slip around 130k miles and I am pretty sure his ride is stock and he doesn't Vtec to redline all the time.
x 10Are you actually comparing a BLOWN auto transmission to replacing a worn out clutch?
Come on.
02-04-2018, 02:45 PM
#27
Drifting
Interesting; the clutch in my 6MT has been weak since I bought the car last May (roughly 16,000 miles ago). Spirited driving quickly heats the clutch up to the point where it will not hold at high power settings where the RPMs are above 3,000 RPMs. For normal day-to-day driving it holds perfectly well and feels quite robust. Go figure.
I am interested to see how your clutch journey goes. I have been darn lucky so far with no signs of slippage at all ever on mine with 170k+ miles (140k are from me) on it now. Although my spirited driving is generally just a stoplight or two long these days. In my 20+ years of owning a manual transmission car, I have only ever once gotten a clutch hot enough to notice slipping. This was in my ProbeGT in true creeping/crawling bumper to bumper stop and go traffic on an Interstate for 1.5 hours due to a fatal accident. Once we cleared the traffic accident scene, I hit the gas and watched the RPMs shoot up....I was still in college and crapped myself thinking of the repair bill if the clutch was really gone.
02-04-2018, 03:57 PM
#28
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Interesting...this is the first time I have seen this type of behavior over this period of time posted on here. This just confirms my point that we really do not have enough true data points to be 100% certain about failure rates of anything other than common sense.
I am interested to see how your clutch journey goes. I have been darn lucky so far with no signs of slippage at all ever on mine with 170k+ miles (140k are from me) on it now. Although my spirited driving is generally just a stoplight or two long these days. In my 20+ years of owning a manual transmission car, I have only ever once gotten a clutch hot enough to notice slipping. This was in my ProbeGT in true creeping/crawling bumper to bumper stop and go traffic on an Interstate for 1.5 hours due to a fatal accident. Once we cleared the traffic accident scene, I hit the gas and watched the RPMs shoot up....I was still in college and crapped myself thinking of the repair bill if the clutch was really gone.
I am interested to see how your clutch journey goes. I have been darn lucky so far with no signs of slippage at all ever on mine with 170k+ miles (140k are from me) on it now. Although my spirited driving is generally just a stoplight or two long these days. In my 20+ years of owning a manual transmission car, I have only ever once gotten a clutch hot enough to notice slipping. This was in my ProbeGT in true creeping/crawling bumper to bumper stop and go traffic on an Interstate for 1.5 hours due to a fatal accident. Once we cleared the traffic accident scene, I hit the gas and watched the RPMs shoot up....I was still in college and crapped myself thinking of the repair bill if the clutch was really gone.
- 1970 Dodge Challenger with a 340 4-Speed; 'nuff said.
- 1993 Ford Probe GT (car kept popping out of gear in Manhattan traffic); hated that car.
- 2006 Acura TL 6MT.
Regardless, it'll all be replaced in the next month or two.
02-07-2018, 12:04 PM
#30
DANSOLOW
this forum filled with 3G enthusiast so majority will tell you get the MT but here is something you might want to consider.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
The clutch on the TL doesn't live long (most of the TL has clutch goes bad from 30k-75k miles) I am not saying this consistent with ALL TL but its does happen quite often, IF they ever need replace the cost is around $1200-$1500 indi shop (could be less if you know someone) or $2500 at the stealership.
My clutch went out at about 68k miles. Honda\Acura wanted my first born child for the job, I took it to an Indi shop for half the price.
All-in-all I have been in many Type-S auto and Manual, as well as base auto and manual... My 2cents is the manual is the best way to go from a spirited driving perspective and just a regular commuters perspective.
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horseshoez (02-10-2018)
02-10-2018, 10:57 AM
#33
Advanced
Interesting...this is the first time I have seen this type of behavior over this period of time posted on here. This just confirms my point that we really do not have enough true data points to be 100% certain about failure rates of anything other than common sense.
I am interested to see how your clutch journey goes. I have been darn lucky so far with no signs of slippage at all ever on mine with 170k+ miles (140k are from me) on it now. Although my spirited driving is generally just a stoplight or two long these days. In my 20+ years of owning a manual transmission car, I have only ever once gotten a clutch hot enough to notice slipping. This was in my ProbeGT in true creeping/crawling bumper to bumper stop and go traffic on an Interstate for 1.5 hours due to a fatal accident. Once we cleared the traffic accident scene, I hit the gas and watched the RPMs shoot up....I was still in college and crapped myself thinking of the repair bill if the clutch was really gone.
I am interested to see how your clutch journey goes. I have been darn lucky so far with no signs of slippage at all ever on mine with 170k+ miles (140k are from me) on it now. Although my spirited driving is generally just a stoplight or two long these days. In my 20+ years of owning a manual transmission car, I have only ever once gotten a clutch hot enough to notice slipping. This was in my ProbeGT in true creeping/crawling bumper to bumper stop and go traffic on an Interstate for 1.5 hours due to a fatal accident. Once we cleared the traffic accident scene, I hit the gas and watched the RPMs shoot up....I was still in college and crapped myself thinking of the repair bill if the clutch was really gone.
What's more interesting is that you and horseshoez both had a Probe GT. Ewwww.
02-10-2018, 04:13 PM
#34
Advanced
I'll join the chorus of 6MT votes- as long as all electronics (HFL, DVD Audio, BT) are working and there's no unusual wear on the interior. I'm the original owner and am still on my original clutch at 185k with no problems.
02-10-2018, 09:27 PM
#35
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The problem was, I needed a car quickly (I was living in Manhattan and got a contract out in central NJ); I really wanted a VR6 Corrado but the car was only available with those stupic mousetrap seatbelts and not front airbags. If I recall, the only options for hot hatches at the time were the Dodge Daytona IROC, the Corrado, and the Probe GT. The Corrado was by far the best car of the three, but without airbags, it was a non-starter.
03-01-2018, 08:41 AM
#36
10th Gear
Thread Starter
Plus, honestly if i had a MT it would end up getting modded, and i dont have the time, space or cash for 4 projects. I’m better off with some basic maintenance and keeping the auto on the road for as long as I can.
03-01-2018, 10:47 AM
#38
Drifting
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In the end it's about how much you want a manual. Every car I've had up until now has been a manual. Then I picked up a 6AT 4G TL. Although I quite like the 6AT transmission in my 4G, my next vehicle will most definitely be a manual again (although that will likely result in leaving Acura....). But if you don't fit into the category of an MT being top priority, then it sounds like you made the best decision.
03-01-2018, 11:52 AM
#39
Its relative. I'm a huge proponent of MTs but only in the right car. Maybe it's because I've always been a two car guy but I just don't see the appeal of an MT in a TL or any family sedan/DD oriented car. Sometimes traffic is so bad it takes me upwards of 2+hours to get home (33miles) so I don't particularly enjoy normal commuting in Chicago with an MT. I sold my heavily modified 370Z 6MT last summer leaving me with no manual car in the stable for the first time in a very long time. I sure miss rowing an MT but I've never really thought "man I wish my TL was a manual" let alone considered getting rid of it for one. And yes, I know the 5AT is garbage don't disagree there.
03-04-2018, 12:36 AM
#40
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Depends on how much you value driving a MT as a daily. Personally no nav is a deal breaker for me, the interior with the nav looks substantially better in my opinion