$1,271 for repairs!
08-30-2011, 08:29 PM
#2
Instructor
Personally I would have had them call you when they found out what was wrong and not to install anything before you gave the OK. You may have still be charged a diagnostic fee but that should be minimal compared to your $1271 bill and you probably could have replaced the rest yourself for much less...or brought it to a non-acura shop to install the parts.
08-30-2011, 08:34 PM
#3
Registered 3.5L Member
^ I would agree...I hate when dealers pull this shit, This is why I hate dealing with them-If I didnt give them the go ahead and I felt taken advantage of, I'd tell them to remove it...but Im not the easiest customer to deal with...
Last edited by BigPZ; 08-30-2011 at 08:36 PM.
08-30-2011, 08:52 PM
#4
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If the dealership was legit, they would have called you first to let you know what you needed and how much it would cost. Then you could have OK'd this or not OK'd it.
08-30-2011, 08:52 PM
#6
I just bought Auto Repair for Dummies. I haven't gotten too far into it, but reviews I read say that it is a good book for people who know nothing about cars and repair...and I know nothing about cars and repair. It even gives you in depth info on how to, if necessary, deal with mechanics when taking the ride in to get it fixed for something beyond your capabilities.
I would recommend it if you don't know how to diagnose car problems. There is no shame in not knowing something!
I would recommend it if you don't know how to diagnose car problems. There is no shame in not knowing something!
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08-30-2011, 09:19 PM
#13
University of Tennessee
From a dealership with the name "Park Ave", I wouldn't expect anything less...lol. I don't know what that work would cost, but it sounds like you just got taken by the stealership...
08-30-2011, 09:44 PM
#14
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
I work for Park ave Acura as a Technician and know everyone in the dealership very well. You may have even seen my picture as you walk in because I am technician of the month. Beside that, I only deal with certified cars at this point not with customer cars. I will tell you, the dealership WILL NOT do anything past what you agreed from the moment you sat down with the service writer. You probably came in for an ABS/Brake and or Triangle light correct? They told you it's 120.00 for an hour Diag to see what's going on, correct? At this point the technician had 1 hour to trouble shoot your issue and make sure it is the correct problem.
So you probably have faulty wheel speed sensors, which are common. What you can't see in till you do this job and let me stress with you I've done many of these speed sensors, the problem you run into is the the sensor being rusted in the hub. How do you remove this then? Well for shit sure it never comes out in one piece, you break what you can, drill the rest and clean up the hole. This takes a lot of time, you have to be very careful not to damage the ABS tone ring on the axle. Our vehicles have 4 YES FOUR speed sensors, one for each wheel, that's how the traction with ABS works on these cars. I figured the technician spent a good few hours on this job plus they may have bleed your brake lines since you said a line was replaced. Speaking of this line, if it was a steel line not those rubber hoses but a fabricated steel line, those aren't dealership ready, they have to be bent with a tool to make the old line correctly which takes time as well. For your price of what you paid it's not a rip off but the norm for such a job. If you were looking for cheaper an indy shop would have been cheap but not by much.
I can assure you Ive been with Acura for almost a year and previously worked at private shop(s) for 8 years now and from one to the other with this job the final price would have made little difference. For those members on this forum only have me working on their cars. Those same members they will tell you hands down the dealer isn't shady like that.
So you probably have faulty wheel speed sensors, which are common. What you can't see in till you do this job and let me stress with you I've done many of these speed sensors, the problem you run into is the the sensor being rusted in the hub. How do you remove this then? Well for shit sure it never comes out in one piece, you break what you can, drill the rest and clean up the hole. This takes a lot of time, you have to be very careful not to damage the ABS tone ring on the axle. Our vehicles have 4 YES FOUR speed sensors, one for each wheel, that's how the traction with ABS works on these cars. I figured the technician spent a good few hours on this job plus they may have bleed your brake lines since you said a line was replaced. Speaking of this line, if it was a steel line not those rubber hoses but a fabricated steel line, those aren't dealership ready, they have to be bent with a tool to make the old line correctly which takes time as well. For your price of what you paid it's not a rip off but the norm for such a job. If you were looking for cheaper an indy shop would have been cheap but not by much.
I can assure you Ive been with Acura for almost a year and previously worked at private shop(s) for 8 years now and from one to the other with this job the final price would have made little difference. For those members on this forum only have me working on their cars. Those same members they will tell you hands down the dealer isn't shady like that.
Last edited by 04WDPSeDaN; 08-30-2011 at 09:53 PM.
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08-30-2011, 10:20 PM
#16
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Nah, I am not out to attack OP by any means. Everyone has their opinion and it's cool
Only saying how the dealer I work for handles things and in his case just giving him an idea of what's involved and why it was at that cost. The service writers don't do the job, the technicians do.
08-30-2011, 10:38 PM
#20
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We also don't know what (or if) the OP was given a quote and approved it before the work was done, but everyone assumes he didn't have a quote.
I'm pretty sure most states, with all the car repair BS, have laws requiring a quote and authorization to go above the quote.
I'm pretty sure most states, with all the car repair BS, have laws requiring a quote and authorization to go above the quote.
08-30-2011, 10:41 PM
#21
Instructor
Call them out on the survey they email but you have to have proof that they hosed you . Several years ago I did just that and got a call from the service manager, he spouted some bull but I got credit for the service performed.
08-30-2011, 10:49 PM
#23
no one told me the labor fee when it was towed in for the repair. They called me the next day to tell me the problem was that my brake line was cut as well as the wheel sensors. A price was definitely never given to me though. I assumed a refund is impossible and just wanted to see everyone's opinion since other people i talked to told me the price is ridiculous (most of them work at local body shops). Tom (my rep at Park Ave) was a pleasure to deal with though he was not there to present me with my bill. It was the secretary and one of the female service reps i think. She told me 120 is the standard charge per hour and at this point there isnt really anything i can do about it
also i just noticed some water in my headlight probably because the service department got flooded during the storm. I dont think i requested water in my headlight but maybe they just thought it looked nice
also i just noticed some water in my headlight probably because the service department got flooded during the storm. I dont think i requested water in my headlight but maybe they just thought it looked nice
Last edited by Steven Bell; 08-31-2011 at 08:16 PM. Reason: Merged Posts.
08-30-2011, 11:20 PM
#24
if you never got quoted for something in the range of ~$1000, I'm fairly sure it's illegal, because at that point they are spending your money without your permission.
However, I doubt this is the case as they are careful with this type of work, you most likely got a slip when you brought in your car with an estimate of the work (i always do). if the work will go over or they find additional problems, they will call and inform you of the problems and obtain authorization.
At this point, you don't really have a case unless they really did not give you a proper estimate with your approval (they would have needed your signature). I would call up your rep and tell him your story and see if you both can reach an agreement.
And yes, they do charge an arm and leg sometimes (paid $5 for 2 transmission washers -.-|||) but I find their work to be fairly decent for the peace of mind that it's going to be done properly at the factory recommended level.
However, I doubt this is the case as they are careful with this type of work, you most likely got a slip when you brought in your car with an estimate of the work (i always do). if the work will go over or they find additional problems, they will call and inform you of the problems and obtain authorization.
At this point, you don't really have a case unless they really did not give you a proper estimate with your approval (they would have needed your signature). I would call up your rep and tell him your story and see if you both can reach an agreement.
And yes, they do charge an arm and leg sometimes (paid $5 for 2 transmission washers -.-|||) but I find their work to be fairly decent for the peace of mind that it's going to be done properly at the factory recommended level.
08-30-2011, 11:51 PM
#25
(a) Without limiting the prosecution of any other practices which may be unlawful under the Consumer Fraud Act,
N.J.S.A. 56:8-1 et seq., the following acts or omissions shall be deceptive practices in the conduct of the business of
an automotive repair dealer, whether such act or omission is done by the automotive repair dealer or by any mechanic,
employee, partner, officer of member of the automotive repair dealer:
1. Making or authorizing in any manner or by any means whatever any statement, written or oral, which is untrue
or misleading, and which is known, or by which the exercise of reasonable care should be known, to be untrue
or misleading.
2. Commencing work for compensation without securing one of the following:
i. Specific written authorization from the customer, signed by the customer, which states the nature of the
repair requested or problem presented and the odometer reading of the vehicle; or
ii. If the customer’s vehicle is presented to the automotive repair dealer during other than normal working
hours or by one other than the customer, oral authorization from the customer to proceed with the requested
repair or problem presented, evidenced by a notation on the repair order and/or invoice of the repairs requested
or problem presented, date, time, name of person granting such authorization, and the telephone
number, if any, at which said person was contacted.
3. Commencing work for compensation without either:
i. One of the following:
(1) Providing the customer with a written estimated price to complete the repair, quoted in terms of a
not-to-exceed figure; or
(2) Providing the customer with a written estimated price quoted as a detailed breakdown of parts and labor
necessary to complete the repair. If the dealer makes a diagnostic examination, the dealer has the right
to furnish such estimate within a reasonable period of time thereafter, and to charge the customer for the
cost of diagnosis. Such diagnostic charge must be agreed to in advance by the customer. No cost of
diagnosis which would have been incurred in accomplishing the repair shall be billed twice if the customer
elects to have the dealer make the repair; or
(3) Providing the customer with a written estimated price to complete a specific repair, for example, “valve
job”; or
(4) Obtaining from the customer a written authorization to proceed with repairs not in excess of a specific
dollar amount. For the purposes of this subchapter, said dollar amount shall be deemed the estimated
price of repairs; or
(5) If the customer waives his right to a written estimate in a written statement, signed by the customer,
obtaining from the customer oral approval of an estimated price of repairs, evidenced by a notation on
the repair order or invoice of the estimated price of repairs, date, time, name of person approving such
estimate, and the telephone number, if any, at which such person was contacted; or
ii. If the customer’s vehicle is presented to the automotive repair dealer during other than normal working
hours or by one other than the customer, obtaining from the customer either:
(1) A written authorization to proceed with repairs not in excess of a specific dollar amount. For the purposes
of this subchapter, said dollar amount shall be deemed the estimated price of repairs; or
(2) Oral approval of an estimated price of repairs evidenced by a notation on the repair order or invoice of
the estimated price of repairs, date, time, name of person approving such estimate, and the telephone
number, if any, at which such person was contacted.
N.J.S.A. 56:8-1 et seq., the following acts or omissions shall be deceptive practices in the conduct of the business of
an automotive repair dealer, whether such act or omission is done by the automotive repair dealer or by any mechanic,
employee, partner, officer of member of the automotive repair dealer:
1. Making or authorizing in any manner or by any means whatever any statement, written or oral, which is untrue
or misleading, and which is known, or by which the exercise of reasonable care should be known, to be untrue
or misleading.
2. Commencing work for compensation without securing one of the following:
i. Specific written authorization from the customer, signed by the customer, which states the nature of the
repair requested or problem presented and the odometer reading of the vehicle; or
ii. If the customer’s vehicle is presented to the automotive repair dealer during other than normal working
hours or by one other than the customer, oral authorization from the customer to proceed with the requested
repair or problem presented, evidenced by a notation on the repair order and/or invoice of the repairs requested
or problem presented, date, time, name of person granting such authorization, and the telephone
number, if any, at which said person was contacted.
3. Commencing work for compensation without either:
i. One of the following:
(1) Providing the customer with a written estimated price to complete the repair, quoted in terms of a
not-to-exceed figure; or
(2) Providing the customer with a written estimated price quoted as a detailed breakdown of parts and labor
necessary to complete the repair. If the dealer makes a diagnostic examination, the dealer has the right
to furnish such estimate within a reasonable period of time thereafter, and to charge the customer for the
cost of diagnosis. Such diagnostic charge must be agreed to in advance by the customer. No cost of
diagnosis which would have been incurred in accomplishing the repair shall be billed twice if the customer
elects to have the dealer make the repair; or
(3) Providing the customer with a written estimated price to complete a specific repair, for example, “valve
job”; or
(4) Obtaining from the customer a written authorization to proceed with repairs not in excess of a specific
dollar amount. For the purposes of this subchapter, said dollar amount shall be deemed the estimated
price of repairs; or
(5) If the customer waives his right to a written estimate in a written statement, signed by the customer,
obtaining from the customer oral approval of an estimated price of repairs, evidenced by a notation on
the repair order or invoice of the estimated price of repairs, date, time, name of person approving such
estimate, and the telephone number, if any, at which such person was contacted; or
ii. If the customer’s vehicle is presented to the automotive repair dealer during other than normal working
hours or by one other than the customer, obtaining from the customer either:
(1) A written authorization to proceed with repairs not in excess of a specific dollar amount. For the purposes
of this subchapter, said dollar amount shall be deemed the estimated price of repairs; or
(2) Oral approval of an estimated price of repairs evidenced by a notation on the repair order or invoice of
the estimated price of repairs, date, time, name of person approving such estimate, and the telephone
number, if any, at which such person was contacted.
08-31-2011, 08:31 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
08-31-2011, 09:14 AM
#29
Safety Car
It sounds like you authorized them to do the work but never asked for a price ahead of time. I think this one might fall on you OP. I know first hand just from dealing with several different Acura dealers that their labor rate is much higher than a local shop. Acura of Las Vegas quoted $1850 in labor alone just to install my supercharger. Needless to say I went to a local garage that charged me $550. In the future just go to a local garage and have them do the work.
08-31-2011, 09:47 AM
#30
Racer
I work for Park ave Acura as a Technician and know everyone in the dealership very well. You may have even seen my picture as you walk in because I am technician of the month. Beside that, I only deal with certified cars at this point not with customer cars. I will tell you, the dealership WILL NOT do anything past what you agreed from the moment you sat down with the service writer. You probably came in for an ABS/Brake and or Triangle light correct? They told you it's 120.00 for an hour Diag to see what's going on, correct? At this point the technician had 1 hour to trouble shoot your issue and make sure it is the correct problem.
So you probably have faulty wheel speed sensors, which are common. What you can't see in till you do this job and let me stress with you I've done many of these speed sensors, the problem you run into is the the sensor being rusted in the hub. How do you remove this then? Well for shit sure it never comes out in one piece, you break what you can, drill the rest and clean up the hole. This takes a lot of time, you have to be very careful not to damage the ABS tone ring on the axle. Our vehicles have 4 YES FOUR speed sensors, one for each wheel, that's how the traction with ABS works on these cars. I figured the technician spent a good few hours on this job plus they may have bleed your brake lines since you said a line was replaced. Speaking of this line, if it was a steel line not those rubber hoses but a fabricated steel line, those aren't dealership ready, they have to be bent with a tool to make the old line correctly which takes time as well. For your price of what you paid it's not a rip off but the norm for such a job. If you were looking for cheaper an indy shop would have been cheap but not by much.
I can assure you Ive been with Acura for almost a year and previously worked at private shop(s) for 8 years now and from one to the other with this job the final price would have made little difference. For those members on this forum only have me working on their cars. Those same members they will tell you hands down the dealer isn't shady like that.
So you probably have faulty wheel speed sensors, which are common. What you can't see in till you do this job and let me stress with you I've done many of these speed sensors, the problem you run into is the the sensor being rusted in the hub. How do you remove this then? Well for shit sure it never comes out in one piece, you break what you can, drill the rest and clean up the hole. This takes a lot of time, you have to be very careful not to damage the ABS tone ring on the axle. Our vehicles have 4 YES FOUR speed sensors, one for each wheel, that's how the traction with ABS works on these cars. I figured the technician spent a good few hours on this job plus they may have bleed your brake lines since you said a line was replaced. Speaking of this line, if it was a steel line not those rubber hoses but a fabricated steel line, those aren't dealership ready, they have to be bent with a tool to make the old line correctly which takes time as well. For your price of what you paid it's not a rip off but the norm for such a job. If you were looking for cheaper an indy shop would have been cheap but not by much.
I can assure you Ive been with Acura for almost a year and previously worked at private shop(s) for 8 years now and from one to the other with this job the final price would have made little difference. For those members on this forum only have me working on their cars. Those same members they will tell you hands down the dealer isn't shady like that.
when my speed sensors inevitably fail, can I just disable the ABS/traction system and call it good? (I know safety, yada-yada-yada.) The car is nearly 8 yrs old with 116,000 miles. I got by just fine without ABS in the past, and would rather forego spending 4 digits in repairs on a car worth basically 4 digits. Thanks, Pat
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08-31-2011, 11:26 AM
#33
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Question for ya WDP,
when my speed sensors inevitably fail, can I just disable the ABS/traction system and call it good? (I know safety, yada-yada-yada.) The car is nearly 8 yrs old with 116,000 miles. I got by just fine without ABS in the past, and would rather forego spending 4 digits in repairs on a car worth basically 4 digits. Thanks, Pat
when my speed sensors inevitably fail, can I just disable the ABS/traction system and call it good? (I know safety, yada-yada-yada.) The car is nearly 8 yrs old with 116,000 miles. I got by just fine without ABS in the past, and would rather forego spending 4 digits in repairs on a car worth basically 4 digits. Thanks, Pat
Even pulling fuses, etc, not sure if you can completely disable the system. There are a number of features that run off the same set of sensors/data: Traction Control, ABS and VSA are the three that come to mind.
Also, if the wheel sensors are not functioning, the system may "disable" itself since it does not have reliable wheel speed data.
08-31-2011, 11:36 AM
#34
My dealer is Ramsey Acura, they always call me FIRST to tell me what is wrong with the car, tell me how much it is to repair then ask for authorization to proceed. Any dealer which doesn't tell you upfront & just goes & repair your vehicle are crooks.
08-31-2011, 12:40 PM
#35
Racer
As long as you understand that it's more than just pushing the button.
Even pulling fuses, etc, not sure if you can completely disable the system. There are a number of features that run off the same set of sensors/data: Traction Control, ABS and VSA are the three that come to mind.
Also, if the wheel sensors are not functioning, the system may "disable" itself since it does not have reliable wheel speed data.
Even pulling fuses, etc, not sure if you can completely disable the system. There are a number of features that run off the same set of sensors/data: Traction Control, ABS and VSA are the three that come to mind.
Also, if the wheel sensors are not functioning, the system may "disable" itself since it does not have reliable wheel speed data.
Last edited by Pat04TL; 08-31-2011 at 12:49 PM.
08-31-2011, 08:56 PM
#36
iWhine S/C 6MT TL
iTrader: (1)
Question for ya WDP,
when my speed sensors inevitably fail, can I just disable the ABS/traction system and call it good? (I know safety, yada-yada-yada.) The car is nearly 8 yrs old with 116,000 miles. I got by just fine without ABS in the past, and would rather forego spending 4 digits in repairs on a car worth basically 4 digits. Thanks, Pat
when my speed sensors inevitably fail, can I just disable the ABS/traction system and call it good? (I know safety, yada-yada-yada.) The car is nearly 8 yrs old with 116,000 miles. I got by just fine without ABS in the past, and would rather forego spending 4 digits in repairs on a car worth basically 4 digits. Thanks, Pat
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