hondamore

To clarify, I was eluding to the old M style in side view especially the rear door glass shape

I'm clinging to the hope that the AWD version debut will include some styling tweeks so I don't have to wait for the "4G" or live with the front beak.

weather

^^ I still say that different wheel on this car would make it look so much better. These wheels are simply horrible!

KeithL

^^^
For me it is more than wheels, but nice wheels would help take the sting away.

KeithL

I agree, funny when I was looking at my 4G AWD TL I briefly looked at the old M and said same thing, slab sides and back, and rather bland front. It is really impressive how Infiniti really broke the mold with the current M and really went for something so bold, sure some don't like it, but I get far more compliments on it over my 4G TL.

BDoggPrelude

Every vehicle gets a MMC redesign. The price was dropped because, starting in 2007, Acura began offering a base model trim without navigation.

The 2nd gen RL was well received in the automotive industry upon its release. SH-AWD was revolutionary and it was a massive step forward from the 1st gen RL. Its styling was not revolutionary, but it was considered understated, handsome and timeless. I never once heard people knock the styling of the 2G RL until the MMC when they added the horrific beak.

GoHawks

I know, I was being cynical.

Yes the 2nd gen RL got very good reviews when introduced and the beak was hideous.

JT4

^^Nice try.

Wow you must read minds since you know what people are thinking. Let’s just see what you got right and what you got wrong.

You’re correct in that I drive a Cadillac (CTS-V) and an Acura (TL), very good.

Now here is where you are wrong. I WAS considering an RLX as a step up from the TL, when I saw the concept pics I wasn’t turned off and when the actual RLX was shown IMO it didn’t look that bad, aside from the wheels.

But then I found out that it would be close to $70K to get SH-AWD, that was the game changer for me. I have had 3 Acura’s in the last 8-10 yrs and have found them to be great vehicles but I am NOT spending close to $70K for an RLX.

So I guess you can say I am disappointed in Acura, not with the RLX.. So you’re wrong again.

037

Not to knock further on Acura of which I owned 2, but 60k RLX is Hyundai Equus territory which aims at the S class...

since when is a high end Hyundai worth the same as a high end Acura...

let's compare the two from a value perspective, briefly, in photos:

















and did I mention the Equus got a 429hp V8 and 8 speed auto?

It might be a Hyundai but the warranty is longer than RLX's, and they come to your house to pick it up for service.

So I guess from this point on, it's a little confusing who Acura is competing against as before it caught up to the Germans the Koreans are starting to pass it.

Just my from a previous owner of 2009 RL CMBS and a current 2012 Premium/Tech owner of the Genesis sedan.

phishfood

Gotta wonder about buying anything from SK with North Korea ready to start a war

noobie

Crap, that means I can't buy the iPhone5S or anything else with a Samsung chip in it or replace my TV or fridge... what to do

dwest1023

Wow those pictures of the RLX and Hyundai REALLY show how bland and boring the RLX looks.

db22

If the general consensus is that the RLX should have been debuted with the SH AWD then doesn't the same theory apply that the Advance model should be the first to come out so that the reviewers could check out the tech features and see how the car actually compares in the luxury field?

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I don't know what kind of hp the V8 has, is it 429 hyundai-power?? The same engine in a Genesis R-spec that is about 400lb lighter has some fairly weak numbers for a car that has 429hp with a curb weight of 4200lb:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review

Curb weight: 4234 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 5.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.7 sec @ 103 mph

Here are some comparison numbers for reference.

Audi S6:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...s6-test-review
Power: 420 hp @ 6400 rpm
Curb weight: 4255 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 3.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.1 sec @ 115 mph

E550 4matic:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...an-test-review
Power: 402 hp @ 5000 rpm
Curb weight: 4411 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 4.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.8 sec @ 112 mph

M56S:
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...oad-test-1.pdf
Power: 420 hp @ 6000 rpm
Curb weight: 4136 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.2 sec @ 108 mph

550i:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...trumented-test
Power: 400 bhp @ 5500 rpm
Curb weight: 4417 lb
Zero to 60 mph: 4.8 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 109 mph

I don't know...but those 429 horses under the hood must be fairly lazy! Ignore the 0-60mph part as some cars above are AWD. Focus on the 1/4 mile trap speed instead as that's the true indication of power. Most are within 2mph of 110mph. The Genesis is way behind at 103mph. For reference, a 310hp Audi A6 3.0T at over 4000lb traps at 103mph. Even the new Honda Accord V6 6MT has the same trap speed.

First they lied to EPA and consumers regarding EPA ratings, now they are lying about power output? What's next?

My bad, actually, Hyundai and Kia admitted that they had overstated horsepower ratings on 1.3 million vehicles back in 2002:
http://www.autonews.com/article/2012...#axzz2QB4frl1z

Looks like they are onto it again.

037

The numbers aren't off. The first thing I saw when R-Spec came out was a dyne which showed about 15% power loss which is typical for RWD.

The real reason is the Hyundai nanny hand holder.

It tunes down power in the 1st gear thus preventing any sort of a full power launch.

The transmission takes it real easy as well, it's gotta lost 100,000 miles after all.

It is slower not because it's weak, it's slower because it was made to last long and there is no way to turn the nanny off.

Now for a real life example: When doing stop light races, the car is no real match for cars with comparable horsepower (V6 Genny 333hp vs G37), but once you're at highway speeds, the V6 Genny is just as fast as a 335i BMW, and I tested that on several occasions.

The next Genny should have AWD which should allow it to put most if not all power down without the HyundNanny coming in to ruin the fun.

KeithL

The Advance did come out first, all the FWD models were out together, most dealers in ATL had a Tech and Advance on 2/15 to demo.

weather

Once again, dwest steals the words right out of my mouth!!! You know, I may just close my account and just let dwest post my feelings since he captures pretty much how I feel (lol)

Great pics and a good example on how conservative Acura is....I am surprised they didn't take the interior pics with Mr C.... sitting in the back seat *lmao*

For the record, I still hate the Equus' wheels!

silver3.5

I hate to admit it but the Equus definitely have a better looking interior than the RLX. RLX = bland!

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I heard about this "nanny" program thing too with a lot of Hyundai and Kia vehicles. If that's the case though, I'm not sure if having AWD would help. After all, doing an AWD power launch is even more damaging to the tranny than doing the same thing with RWD. With RWD, when you launch hard, you will be spinning the rear wheels. AWD? You will be burning the tranny.

hondamore

I was thinking the exact opposite. I give the RLX a definite edge in interior design and finish. I don't like the "flatness" of the dash in the Equus - reminds me of my father's Pontiac in the 70's. In my opinion, rear seat video screens are for kids and I'm not sure the RLX target market are hauling kids around. If I'm taking my buddies to an out of town golf tournament, we're BSing the whole trip and I don't see the guys in the back watching a DVD while the two guys in the front stare out the window. Same thing if my wife and I are driving another couple somewhere.

I do like the exterior styling of the Equus - I'm now sure that the C-pillar area of the RLX is what I don't like. The shape of that little window behind the rear door window on the Equus flows better than the RLX (or the Lexus GS). I realize that the window I'm speaking of is basically useless on the Equus, but it does give a nicer look to the exterior.

037

for the record "base" Equus does not come with rear entertainment, step up to the "Ultimate" for that.

037

What I noticed is that the more traction you got in the back the less the Nanny jumps in.

Meaning summer tires help. Any hint of traction loss and the power is zapped, say going up a hill and if the weight shifts too far up tires want to break lose and InstaZap, they don't even chirp at WOT cause the nanny is already hard at work.

On the other hand, a Turbo Sonata has a similar nanny for launching the car but I can chirp tires in 2nd to 3rd shift without losing power...

I am hoping AWD will fix the traction issues and thus give the nanny less work.

Otherwise I may have to keep my poor ol' V6 awhile longer.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea, me too. I think the exterior of Equus is better looking but I'd take the interior of the RLX any day of the week.

Hmm, I think what you are talking about is some sort of traction control and/or vehicle stability system. These systems are not there to prolong the life of an engine or a transmission. Rather, they are to save you from losing traction or losing control of the car.

The comments I have read regarding many Hyundai models are about their slow shifting gearboxes. Not sure if this is still the case, but earlier models even cut throttle aggressively when upshifting. This definitely has an effect on acceleration time.

However, if we are only talking about nannies, as in traction control and vehicle stability system, then those don't have any effect on the 1/4 mile trap speed as grip is an non-issue. After all, 1st gear acceleration takes up very little distance over the course of 1320 feet. Grip only has an effect when it comes to E.T.

For example, let's say the Genesis R-spec indeed offers AWD. Also assume the system has no weight penalty and no additional drivetrain losses (both are not possible btw). Its 0-60mph time might be cut short by a few tenths to perhaps 4.8s. Its 1/4 mile time will also be improved by a few tenths to 13.5s or so. But its trap speed will remain the same at 103mph. Of course, in the real world, the additional weight and drivetrain losses would most likely yield a slower trap speed (i.e. 101 or 102mph). If it's 102mph, then that's significantly slower than the higher power trims of the competition as those trap ~110mph. That sort of difference is similar to the difference between an Accord V6 and an Accord I4 with CVT.

jhr3uva90

I don't hate the RLX. On the contrary, I like it. However, I'm not convinced why I should buy the RLX over the Lexus GS, especially since the GS can be had with RWD and rear-wheel steering. What's the advantage of P-AWS?

jshaw

It helps with braking stability, which is a non-issue with the Lexus GS, anyways.

At any rate, I do question the images above: why is there a transmission tunnel in the RLX, where there are clearly no rear drivetrain components at all?

GoHawks

My 2001 TL had a hump too. I believe it is to accommodate the exhaust so that it is flat and doesn't hang underneath the car. Even on the 2nd Gen RL, the dual exhaust (after the cat) were nestled on each side of the driveshaft so everything was flush underneath.

JAB00

Acura is drifting further into an abyss. They had gold with the 3G TL. It was a FWD sports compact that was a or near a sales leader in its segment. The 2G RL was well received but a slow seller due to its bland looks. They completely botched the 4G TL and mangled the MMC 2G RL with the horrific looks.

The RLX is dead in the water as a $50k FWD mid sized luxury sedan. It offers nothing that all it's competitors already have. I see no reason to get one. I have and love my 3G TL that I bought brand new in 2005. I am making significantly more than I did in 2005. I will not stay with Acura based on its trend. It came out with an under powered ILX with an antiquated 5 speed drive train. The TLX will be a train wreck. I anticipate that the SH AWD will go away or be prohibitively expensive to turn off buyers.

Honda needs to give up its deluded belief that FWD sedans can compete with RWD or AWD in the luxury segment. Today's buyers are too discerning to accept that anymore. Just my $0.02

037

to clarify, yes, it is the traction control that cuts power as soon as a hint of slip is detected.

8 speed transmission does not delay between shifts on it's way up, floor it and it will keep rpm's climbing into 6k, but not to red line.

The car has as much power as it claims it has, but it's definitely not using all of it in the first two gears.

On the highway this car is a beast in manual shift mode where you don't have to be in a random gear, you keep it in lowest gear and the car kicks @$$.

For comparison, I was messing around with a 2013 Charger R/T the other day, he pulled into the right parking lane and sling shotted out in front of a line of cars off the red, I was nice enough to do the same from a turning lane (this is obviously fiction as I would never do that).

Let's just say the Charger wasn't ahead by the time we hit 60 and that car gets pretty loud at high rpm. Charger driver was not amused. I do think he was eventually going to catch up, but then again, it would be sad if a V8 wasn't worth it's mpg.

037

Hyundai is providing pressure on Acura with the Equus even if it wasn't the intended target (I assume they went for LS460 and S class with that one, not to say they're in the same class)

jhr3uva90

I don't think buyers are generally that discerning. That's why Mercedes will release a FWD car called the CLA. It really is more about the brand than the merits. If it were about the merits, the Infiniti M would have started outselling the Lexus GS back in 2005 and the Hyundai Equuis would outsell both of those cars.

SSFTSX

first replace that 265 size summer performance rear tires in GS-350 F sport with 245 Michellen Primacy and see how much difference you get in handling. RLX has superior refinement (noise levels are at Audi A8/LS level), fuel economic is better than GS, The car is definitely faster when put same tires. It is more spacious and look more unique.

jhr3uva90

That's good to know, but what about the turning circle? The GSs turning circle is good without the rear wheel steer. It's even better with the rear wheel steer, from what I understand.

jshaw

Ah, I was thinking more of a Honda Civic, which has practically no hump at all.

db22

I understand that all of the versions came out at the same time but if they only offered the Advance then all of the reviewers would be giving their views on a real RLX. If CR reviewed the Advance SH-SHAWD then the results and dissapointments may have been significantly different.

KeithL

Blame Acura if they did not supply a reviewer with an Advance model, they usually supply top models unless a reviewer asks for something specific or unless an Advance was not available in the time frame the reviewer needed. In that latter case Acura should have only supplied Advance models no matter what and told the reviewers that is all they have for them.

KeithL

I'd love to see the Equus with a V6 option, I like the car can't get into 16 MPG around town though. Looking forward to seeing the 14 Equus, to o bad the nice LCD gauges are only in the Ultimate.

037

What you're really saying is that you can't wait to test drive a 2014 Genesis which is going to come out in the next 5-6 months.

I'm waiting too

KeithL

True, but the Equus does have that LCD gauge cluster that I doubt will ever make it into the Genesis.

037

Genesis already has a small LCD between speedo and tach for showing GPS, music, mpg etc, did I mention it's in color too?

KeithL

^^ But the Equus Ultimate looks liek the entire instrument cluster is a LCD similar to what CTS looks like it will have

RSLTSX09XMNAVWX

I saw that CR review as well... But this is how I would describe what might be going on. Back to the 09-10-11 TL... It was a love hate relationship with 08-07 TL owners... But I am one who liked the cutting edge styling of the 2010 TL SH-AWD..So mixed with the bad economy and slow sales and thinking it was styling, Acura decided to Tone Down the TL in the 2012 model. For Me BIG mistake. Now I am sure many have see the new Honda Accord.. They got it right with styling... Now look at the new Infinity Q-50, they got it right as did BMW, Benz, Jag and Audi.. The problem is YES, the RLX is a nice OK looking car. Not Bad, Not Great, just OK... But Acura got scared with the TL, and went way to far in NOT making cars look like concept cars... I think the RLX will pick up when they introduce the Electric Rear wheel drive version. No telling what that will cost? Acura needs to Re-Think its design team.... If they don't get more aggressive, like they did with the 2009-10 SH-AWD TL ( You have to love the Dual Exhaust) they will find their cars aging real fast. I was keeping my fingers crossed that I was the only one who felt this way, but now that the reviewers are beginning to say the same thing, I feel bad for Acura who tried to do something unique.. For $55-$60K ones expectations should be very high. I need to take my TL in for an oil change next week, so I hope to drive a RLX and check it out. Looking forward also to the 2014 MDX. That will remain their FLAGSHIP car for years to come!