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What would Acura be like without the RLX?

 
Old 02-05-2015, 01:26 PM
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What would Acura be like without the RLX?

With the sluggish sales of the RLX (and the RL before it), some people have suggested that Acura should just drop it entirely. But without a flagship model, wouldn't they suffer?

Yes, I think Acura could survive without the RLX, but wouldn't it be awkward for them NOT to have a flagship model? I mean, given that they have worked so hard to establish themselves as a luxury (or at least near-luxury) marque? Without the RLX, wouldn't they just become another high-end Chevy or Nissan or Mazda brand?

It seems to me that Acura needs the RLX to differentiate itself from Honda (and the other mid-level, mainstream brands), and thereby afford to build and sell higher-content vehicles like the TLX and MDX.

What do you think Acura without the RLX would look like?

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Old 02-05-2015, 02:20 PM
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Just as you described Mike....a big disappointment and bad message as becoming a commodity manufacture..... I think the Price GAP between the RLX Hybrid and the NSX is too far.....My prediction is they will become a SUV company...A $150K plus customer will be disenchanted with their sub-par dealerships....Hollywood royalty doesn't jive with an acura dealership service department....All messed up...
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Fabvsix View Post
Just as you described Mike....a big disappointment and bad message as becoming a commodity manufacture..... I think the Price GAP between the RLX Hybrid and the NSX is too far.....My prediction is they will become a SUV company...A $150K plus customer will be disenchanted with their sub-par dealerships....Hollywood royalty doesn't jive with an acura dealership service department....All messed up...
Back in the 90S co-exist a $ 18k Integra and a $ 90k NSX with no problem at all.
At the 90S exist BMW, AUDI, MERCEDES,LEXUS, INFINITI all RWD and V8s and
that doesnt bother Acura at all.
The New Century came with Hyundai/Kia with his luxurys sedans, and the world
change for Acura.Take the timing ,is perfect like a Swish clock.
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Old 02-05-2015, 04:53 PM
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I am of the opinion that having a flagship is important for any brand but does it have to be a sedan? Can their flagship be the NSX? can it be the MDX?

I think the RLX has a bad reputation and most of it is not founded....sure, it it not the sexiest of design but the RLX is not intended to be an aggressive sedan but something to cater to a segment of the car buyers who want a vehicle that is reliable, luxurious, reliable and stylish. The RLX would not need a dramatic cosmetic change to be an improvement.

I am not passing judgement on the RLX as I don't own one but I will say this....Acura is not benefiting from the reputation of the RLX so would not having the RLX hurt the brand? I think that in a way, the RLX is drawing lots of bad attention and may be more of a hindrance than help....
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Old 02-05-2015, 06:16 PM
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At this moment in time, the existence or non-existence of the RLX model makes no impact to the overall Acura auto brand.

Acura has already pulled out all RLX marketing and advertising, and has also significantly cut back on RLX production rate.

It looks as if Acura has no more interest in promoting the RLX sedans.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:48 PM
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I think Acura would be just fine without the RLX. Now Acura without the MDX...that would be a problem.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by CARLOS10 View Post
Back in the 90S co-exist a $ 18k Integra and a $ 90k NSX with no problem at all.
At the 90S exist BMW, AUDI, MERCEDES,LEXUS, INFINITI all RWD and V8s and
that doesnt bother Acura at all.
ahhh, so you're that Dallas Cowboy fan who brings up their past championship wins.

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Old 02-06-2015, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by weather View Post
I am of the opinion that having a flagship is important for any brand but does it have to be a sedan? Can their flagship be the NSX? can it be the MDX?

I think the RLX has a bad reputation and most of it is not founded....sure, it it not the sexiest of design but the RLX is not intended to be an aggressive sedan but something to cater to a segment of the car buyers who want a vehicle that is reliable, luxurious, reliable and stylish. The RLX would not need a dramatic cosmetic change to be an improvement.

I am not passing judgement on the RLX as I don't own one but I will say this....Acura is not benefiting from the reputation of the RLX so would not having the RLX hurt the brand? I think that in a way, the RLX is drawing lots of bad attention and may be more of a hindrance than help....
The RLX is an unmitigated flop. It just doesn't cut muster compared to the competition. The mid-sized luxury segment is very competitive. Coming out with a FWD milquetoast sedan with middling specs is a losing proposition. It's a shame that Hyundai has been able to make a more compelling mid-sized luxury sedan that has more broad appeal than Acura. Despite the improvement in the TLX, it will be middle of the pack in terms of sales. The only saving grace is the MDX/RDX otherwise Acura would be in big trouble.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:35 AM
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Objection to the premise that there is competition. We're not really sure about that, and Honda never spoke of any competition except previous generations of Legends.

So...what Lexus is designed to attract or keep previous owners of the Acura TL, Honda Legend or Honda Accord 6-6? That would be the competition.

:-)

I don't know how I get trapped into appearing to be a shill for Honda, but if you look (I'll say this again) at the production capacity on the line at Saiyama you can ascertain easily for yourself that nobody ever intended to sell very many of the 5G Legend.

They never assigned the capacity, and they never added to another plant to produce them.
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by MisterZDX View Post
I think Acura would be just fine without the RLX. Now Acura without the MDX...that would be a problem.
I'm glad I have the car that I have, but...you're basically right.

:-)
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:20 AM
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I have read this thread a few times and thought long and hard before submitting an answer.

The RLX is an example of Soichiro Honda's philosophies at work. The one that is most appropriate is the often quoted "Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure."

The RLX was a swing and a miss for Honda. We all know this because it is obvious from the botched launch to the current situation to the fact that it wasn't thought important enough to give increased factory allocation, from the very beginning, i.e. it appears to have been meant to be a low-production car from the beginning. For people who don't mind the bleeding edge, however, and who are not afraid to try new things, this has been a great car. The good that has come from it will power other Acuras and, eventually, Hondas.

So how would Acura do without the RLX? Sales wise, it would be fine because it is essentially a SUV company right now. If Acura axed the RLX, the general luxury car buying public would not give it a second thought. I don't think Acura particularly cares for the RLX, either, and because of that I have said on a few occasions that if they are not serious about taking the mid-lux sedan market seriously, they should leave it. People on this forum have already left for the Germans (primarily) and a few for Hyundai, which makes more compelling cars in the RLX's class.

So that brings me to the question, why bother releasing the RLX in the first place? It's because the ideas in the RLX, while they will never be successful in the RLX itself, will be big in future cars. In other words, it's a test bed/trial balloon for future Acura/Honda tech, just like the RL always was before it. That ties in nicely to Soichiro's quote above.

Hopefully, Acura can come up with a mid-lux sedan that will take the market by fire like the Legend did AND will allow for being a test bed of new tech. Another two Honda quotes apply here:

"My biggest thrill is when I plan something and it fails. My mind is then filled with ideas on how I can improve it. " and

"I don’t regret the thousands of times I came home empty-handed, having lost all my ammunition and bait. When the days get as gloomy as that, then you know you will soon find the treasure… "

Here's hoping Honda/Acura find the treasure, at least in this class of cars.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:04 AM
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^^ I am delighted to that you took the time to think about this post....as evident by its content, it was well crafted, accurate and to the point! Good job my friend...
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:41 AM
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No RLX

Originally Posted by Edward'TLS View Post
At this moment in time, the existence or non-existence of the RLX model makes no impact to the overall Acura auto brand.

Acura has already pulled out all RLX marketing and advertising, and has also significantly cut back on RLX production rate.

It looks as if Acura has no more interest in promoting the RLX sedans.
To your question: " where would Acura be without the RLX?" It is already there and has been there for some time. The car has disappeared from acura's marketing, and the volume is so low as to be meaningless, especially in the context of their total volume, which is so heavily skewed toward the MDX that it is of no consequence financially.
after the initial advertising campaign with the sinister, mechanical war horses (worst musical I have ever seen), Acura has relegated the RLX to stealth mode and apparently diverted engineering, marketing and technical support elsewhere. The TLX seems a roaring success by comparison, but that's not saying much.
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mgalbr22 View Post
To your question: " where would Acura be without the RLX?" It is already there and has been there for some time. The car has disappeared from acura's marketing, and the volume is so low as to be meaningless, especially in the context of their total volume, which is so heavily skewed toward the MDX that it is of no consequence financially.
after the initial advertising campaign with the sinister, mechanical war horses (worst musical I have ever seen), Acura has relegated the RLX to stealth mode and apparently diverted engineering, marketing and technical support elsewhere. The TLX seems a roaring success by comparison, but that's not saying much.
I disagree it is already there. When you walk into a showroom or go to Acura's website, they have the RLX, so the point is that no one can say Acura doesn't have a full range of vehicles - a premium sedan, a mid-size sedan, a small sedan and two sizes of SUV's. Something for everybody.

Now, if there were no RLX, you couldn't say that. And that was the original point of the thread.

And as for the NON-RLX owners who insist it is a disaster and a flop, I respectfully say you are not qualified to comment. RLX owners will tell you it is a terrific car - comfortable, full of tech, powerful, and economical. Yeah, owners may bitch about this and that, because after all we are never completely satisfied, are we.

But like the RL before it (which I also owned, btw), the RLX is a vastly under-appreciated and underestimated car.

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Old 02-06-2015, 01:03 PM
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I'd love it if acura brought back the "Legend" name, even if it was just for one vehicle in their lineup and kept the silly lettered names for the rest, and truly built a modern day Legend. Sadly, without a v8, I don't see anything they put out as being legendary, in terms of being an all out luxury car.

Electric motors, while cool, are akin with vehicles such as the Prius. Yes, the tesla exists, but there's so few of them out there and they're really the only ones in the car market that have a luxury/sport reputation. I bet you if you asked 25 non car enthusiasts what a tesla was and what powered it, you'd get nothing but blank stares from each of them. And those are the types of people that Acura is trying to cater to.

So how do you convince those people that the v6 with electric motors is just as good as a v8, if not better? Clearly you can't, because the sales figures are showing just that.

Acura dropped the Legend name after the second generation because they knew there was nothing legendary about the generations there after. They would have been ridiculed by the automotive community.

Acura also needs to up its advertising for such a car. I just walked around my office and asked if people know what an RLX is. One said "yeah that's an SUV acura makes". Another three had no idea. One thought it was a lexus model and one looked it up on the net in front of me and said "huh... Is that a new car? I've never heard or seen one of those before"
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
I'd love it if acura brought back the "Legend" name, even if it was just for one vehicle in their lineup and kept the silly lettered names for the rest, and truly built a modern day Legend. Sadly, without a v8, I don't see anything they put out as being legendary, in terms of being an all out luxury car.
With the electric motors, ya don't need a V8 in this car. Trust me, I own (OK, lease) one, I know. It's Acura's fault they don't market its remarkable thrust potential.

Electric motors, while cool, are akin with vehicles such as the Prius. Yes, the tesla exists, but there's so few of them out there and they're really the only ones in the car market that have a luxury/sport reputation. I bet you if you asked 25 non car enthusiasts what a tesla was and what powered it, you'd get nothing but blank stares from each of them. And those are the types of people that Acura is trying to cater to.
Every enthusiast I speak to here in Cleveland knows about the Tesla Model S, and you should have seen the crowd around it when an owner came to Cars and Coffee. No one knows the RLX, though.

So how do you convince those people that the v6 with electric motors is just as good as a v8, if not better? Clearly you can't, because the sales figures are showing just that.
That is a marketing issue Acura has to address. See what I said above, this car is shockingly fast and the electric motors solve a longstanding Honda weakness, poor low-end torque.

Acura dropped the Legend name after the second generation because they knew there was nothing legendary about the generations there after. They would have been ridiculed by the automotive community.
Actually, they dropped the Legend name because the Legend was so good that the Acura name was lost. They wanted to emphasize the Acura brand, so they changed to this dumb alphanumeric gobbledygook that the Germans used....and it sucks. Bring back Legend! (OK that's a different thread)

Acura also needs to up its advertising for such a car. I just walked around my office and asked if people know what an RLX is. One said "yeah that's an SUV acura makes". Another three had no idea. One thought it was a lexus model and one looked it up on the net in front of me and said "huh... Is that a new car? I've never heard or seen one of those before"
Everybody here agrees with that. However, RLX is in stealth mode while Acura decides whether to reboot it with more features, or get rid of it for good.

Sorry, had to comment, thanks for the points of discussion, TacoBello!
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
I'd love it if acura brought back the "Legend" name, even if it was just for one vehicle in their lineup and kept the silly lettered names for the rest, and truly built a modern day Legend. Sadly, without a v8, I don't see anything they put out as being legendary, in terms of being an all out luxury car.

Electric motors, while cool, are akin with vehicles such as the Prius. Yes, the tesla exists, but there's so few of them out there and they're really the only ones in the car market that have a luxury/sport reputation. I bet you if you asked 25 non car enthusiasts what a tesla was and what powered it, you'd get nothing but blank stares from each of them. And those are the types of people that Acura is trying to cater to.

So how do you convince those people that the v6 with electric motors is just as good as a v8, if not better? Clearly you can't, because the sales figures are showing just that.

Acura dropped the Legend name after the second generation because they knew there was nothing legendary about the generations there after. They would have been ridiculed by the automotive community.

Acura also needs to up its advertising for such a car. I just walked around my office and asked if people know what an RLX is. One said "yeah that's an SUV acura makes". Another three had no idea. One thought it was a lexus model and one looked it up on the net in front of me and said "huh... Is that a new car? I've never heard or seen one of those before"

I find myself in complete agreement with Bob.

In regard to the future of electric cars vs. v8, my opinion is that ship has sailed some time ago. With the new mandated mpg standards there will be continue to be a growing number of autos powered by electric motors [hybrids] and less and less v8's.

I also will say that where you live makes some difference in regard to electric/hybrid cars. In Southern California the combination of climate and some of the highest gas prices in the country have made electric/hybrid cars very popular. The last analysis I saw of Tesla's market share here indicated that they had outsold BMW, Porsche and Audi combined in Southern California. Everyone here knows about Tesla and you see tons on the road. I do understand that where you are that electric motors are not as efficient and I don't know if the Canadian mpg requirements are the same as in the US. I also don't know how your gas prices compare with what I see in Southern California. I mean no disrespect but from where I sit things are different.

The Acura nomenclature change from the Legend to RL etc. was driven by the desire to promote the Acura name instead of a model name.

Taco - if you get an opportunity to drive the Sport Hybrid RLX you will understand while all of us with the car are very happy with not only the power it exhibits but also the superior handling that "torque vectoring" provides. My opinion is this is the future of the auto industry.....most of the other brands from GM to BMW, Mercedes and Porsche are all rolling out models with electric motors [both hybrid and all electric].
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:58 PM
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I'll just repeat that anyone on this forum who has the opportunity to test drive a Sport Hybrid should do so, whether you intend to buy it or not. It is the best kept secret flagship that Acura should be promoting. It is an amazing car.
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Old 02-06-2015, 09:10 PM
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To ask what Acura would be without the RLX is another way of asking what would become of Acura if it sold 200 less cars a month (the RLX's sales). The answer is absolutely nothing would happen to Acura, because the public has already all but discontinued the RLX when it comes to their wallets. The car is such a slow seller that Acura would probably come out ahead financially if they just cut their losses and discontinued the model.

As an image flagship, the RLX also does absolutely nothing. A big, imageless, dowdy 4-door with no cachet, class, technology, nor performance. A flagship model is supposed to provide a halo effect for the brand, not be a boat anchor. A Honda Accord garners more respect on the road than the RLX, especially the FWD model.

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Old 02-06-2015, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by fsmith View Post
I'll just repeat that anyone on this forum who has the opportunity to test drive a Sport Hybrid should do so, whether you intend to buy it or not. It is the best kept secret flagship that Acura should be promoting. It is an amazing car.
Well said. I spent all night cleaning the black beauty getting all of the salt and nasty shit off of it. I refuse to take it to a hand car wash as I only trust myself, using multiple buckets of clean water, my special wash mitt and extra soft micro fiber towels. I can't wait for winter to be over so I can keep it immaculate. It is an obsession to keep the car looking like the day I brought it home from the dealership. My last car looked absolutely brand new and it had 80,000 miles on it. The paint was flawless as was every other aspect of the car. That is how I take care of all of my cars. The fact that the SH is basically an instant collector car, it will make my OCD even worse to keep it looking perfect.

I challenge everyone to test drive one this weekend and not buy it!
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX View Post
I disagree it is already there. When you walk into a showroom or go to Acura's website, they have the RLX, so the point is that no one can say Acura doesn't have a full range of vehicles - a premium sedan, a mid-size sedan, a small sedan and two sizes of SUV's. Something for everybody.

Now, if there were no RLX, you couldn't say that. And that was the original point of the thread.

And as for the NON-RLX owners who insist it is a disaster and a flop, I respectfully say you are not qualified to comment. RLX owners will tell you it is a terrific car - comfortable, full of tech, powerful, and economical. Yeah, owners may bitch about this and that, because after all we are never completely satisfied, are we.

But like the RL before it (which I also owned, btw), the RLX is a vastly under-appreciated and underestimated car.

.
.
i do agree with Mike. in 2012 when i first walked into an Aura dealership i compared the RL and the TL and ended up leasing a TL SH-AWD Elite. same size, more power and cheaper.
now its a different story, the TLX is way too small and it is truly competing with the BMW 3. the RLX competes with the 5 and the e class.
most car manufacturers need a halo car. with the BMW 7 or the Audi 8 you can get between $20k to $25k discount. actually the Audi offered to give me the same finance rate as Acura to boot. the Lexus LS is not better with discounts in the teens.
i know i may be alone in this but i find that Acura is doing the right thing now spacing their offering and limiting internal cannibalization. the RLX will still occupy the top rang in the sedan lineup.
now this i will say at the risk of being shot, i would not trade my RLX for the NSX. not now maybe i would have 6 years ago when i had the Porsche. but now at my age, my newly acquired low profile propensity and my driving habits i find the RLX hybrid to be the best sedan you can buy.
One thing i think Acura should do is to call the RLX hybrids left at the dealers 2014/15 model (they should have called them all 2015 to start with). very few people i know wants to go into a dealer and drop $72k for last year model.
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Old 02-07-2015, 05:46 AM
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^^^^ I'm actually dreaming about selling my S2000 and CTS-V wagon for a NSX. Operative word: DREAMING. In reality, I'm looking for a nice blue or yellow NA2.

Also in my dreamworld, Acura would be out touting the Sport Hybrid as the ultimate sleeper. They really could use the car as an AFFORDABLE example of a power-oriented hybrid. That's really what the car is. Other manufacturers are coming online with similar tech in their sedans. The window for Acura to claim dibs on the tech is rapidly closing.
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:30 AM
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I remember well when I had my 2006 RL how people on this and other forums were discussing how Acura was missing the boat by not promoting the RL. My RL was one of the best all-round cars I've owned (and Ive owned BMW's, Lexuses, Cadillacs and other nice cars), but people didn't give the RL a second look.

That was close to 9 years ago, and we all see how Acura is promoting the RLX today. See a pattern here?

I've concluded that Honda/Acura believes it needs a "range-topper" vehicle to flesh out its line. I don't think they try to actually compete with Mercedes and Audi and BMW; they simply provide a top-of-the-line sedan for those who want it. I also believe they lose a little money on every RLX, considering the incentives and discounting they do to move them, but again they feel they need a premium vehicle in the lineup to maintain the "luxury brand" image.

Hence my original post. If we get in Honda's head and understand their current thinking ... then pretend they decide to do a sea change (I hate that term) and just drop the RLX next year ... what would things look like? As others have pointed out, they would have three winning models - the MDX, RDX, and the TLX, with the slow-selling ILX for entry-level buyers.


So ... you walk into an Acura dealership and you see a premium full-size SUV, a somewhat pared-down midsize SUV, an upper-mid-range sedan, and a Civic-fighter small sedan. Hmm. Other than the MDX, could you really continue to position yourself as a luxury brand? Or have you just become another Toyota/Chevrolet/Nissan/whatever?

Taken that way, I maintain that they keep the RLX because they NEED it for image purposes. Otherwise, there's not nearly as much reason for Acura to exist. And for those of us who partake of it, we get the advantage of Audi-level engineering and equipment at Hyundai pricing.

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Old 02-07-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX View Post
I've concluded that Honda/Acura believes it needs a "range-topper" vehicle to flesh out its line. I don't think they try to actually compete with Mercedes and Audi and BMW; they simply provide a top-of-the-line sedan for those who want it.
If the RLX were not available, I'm not sure what I'd have bought.

Without an RLX, it's possible that the 2010 TL 6-6 SH-AWD would have been my last Acura. 0_0

Without the RLX, maybe I'd have had the brains to explore a CPO Lexus or CPO Mercedes.

I dunno.

A Mercedes that would MSRP for 120,000+ can be had for 80,000 or less.

Something to think about.

If they're giving us the RLX just to keep some of us in a Honda, then perhaps they're doing what they intended?
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:27 AM
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If the RLX were not available, I'm not sure what I'd have bought.

If they're giving us the RLX just to keep some of us in a Honda, then perhaps they're doing what they intended?
I passed on the RLX PAWS because I couldn't get by the lack of SW-AWD that I had in my '06 RL. If the Sport Hybrid had not appeared, I would have been forced to leave the brand and my 26-year dealer relationship and gone either to the Lexus GS (for reliability) or the BMW535i (for more fun driving). But my GM talked me down each time I started to wander and the car did appear and I am totally happy now. THIS needs to be their flagship car and they need to be telling the world about it!
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX View Post
Taken that way, I maintain that they keep the RLX because they NEED it for image purposes. Otherwise, there's not nearly as much reason for Acura to exist. And for those of us who partake of it, we get the advantage of Audi-level engineering and equipment at Hyundai pricing.
No doubt they need a flagship sedan. The only problem is that the RLX is not the right car to be in that slot. Honda just can't seem to get away from consistently trying to engineer every single car they have for value and economy, always trying to overachieve on the cheap. The FWD RLX is a sensible, value-oriented sedan in the same mold as the Accord (the do everything moderately well in a generic, vanilla way), except it costs twice as much as the Accord. Therefore, the value equation goes straight out the window. The FWD RLX compares favorably to the Toyota Avalon, while is being outgunned by the Hyundai Genesis (despite the stigma of junky Korean cars, in general).

At the end of the day, it's downright embarrassing for Acura to take the Accord V6 engine, slap on a different exhaust, tune it for premium fuel to goose the horsepower, and actually think that people are unintelligent enough to spend $60k on the RLX (in general, people who are in the market for $60k cars have to at least be financially savvy enough to be in that market segment, right?).

On the other hand, the Sport-Hybrid RLX is appealing to hardcore Acura fans and techno-geeks (like the ones who will spend $1000 on the latest 8-core Intel CPUs) who are willing to beta-test the latest gadgets (nameplate be damned!!!). However, they are clearly not in the mainstream, nor is this audience substantial enough to move Acura's image one way or another.

I think that if the Sport-Hybrid RLX is priced $10k above the SH-AWD TL/TLX, that would be a compelling option. Likewise if the FWD RLX is priced the same as the SH-AWD TL/TLX. Anything beyond is clearly an insult to the intelligence of the audience they seek, the same audience who are supposed to be smart enough to ignore the weakness of the Acura nameplate and judge their cars based on smart engineering (like let's find a way to repackage a Honda Fit as a ultra-efficient luxury car and charge twice the price), value-oriented prowess alone.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hddnav View Post
No doubt they need a flagship sedan. The only problem is that the RLX is not the right car to be in that slot. Honda just can't seem to get away from consistently trying to engineer every single car they have for value and economy, always trying to overachieve on the cheap. The FWD RLX is a sensible, value-oriented sedan in the same mold as the Accord (the do everything moderately well in a generic, vanilla way), except it costs twice as much as the Accord. Therefore, the value equation goes straight out the window. The FWD RLX compares favorably to the Toyota Avalon, while is being outgunned by the Hyundai Genesis (despite the stigma of junky Korean cars, in general).

At the end of the day, it's downright embarrassing for Acura to take the Accord V6 engine, slap on a different exhaust, tune it for premium fuel to goose the horsepower, and actually think that people are unintelligent enough to spend $60k on the RLX (in general, people who are in the market for $60k cars have to at least be financially savvy enough to be in that market segment, right?).

On the other hand, the Sport-Hybrid RLX is appealing to hardcore Acura fans and techno-geeks (like the ones who will spend $1000 on the latest 8-core Intel CPUs) who are willing to beta-test the latest gadgets (nameplate be damned!!!). However, they are clearly not in the mainstream, nor is this audience substantial enough to move Acura's image one way or another.

I think that if the Sport-Hybrid RLX is priced $10k above the SH-AWD TL/TLX, that would be a compelling option. Likewise if the FWD RLX is priced the same as the SH-AWD TL/TLX. Anything beyond is clearly an insult to the intelligence of the audience they seek, the same audience who are supposed to be smart enough to ignore the weakness of the Acura nameplate and judge their cars based on smart engineering (like let's find a way to repackage a Honda Fit as a ultra-efficient luxury car and charge twice the price), value-oriented prowess alone.
It is possible you are comparing the decaf RLX to the Accord and not the SH, but just in case:

I paid $54,500 for mine after some very serious and intentional timing on my part to make sure I would be the last delivery my dealership would have for the year on new Year's Eve. I even let them know that I could easily take delivery on January 2nd so it would be up to them if they wanted the floor plan cleared of this car before the end of the month/year. I got an awesome deal for sure. So in relation to a TLX-V6 ADV it was about $10k more for the RLX-SH Tech which I purchased. Regarding the comment "Accord V6 engine, slap on a different exhaust, tune it for premium fuel to goose the horsepower, and actually think that people are unintelligent enough to spend $60k on the RLX (in general, people who are in the market for $60k cars have to at least be financially savvy enough to be in that market segment, right?)", there are many differences between the motors although they have similar blocks and pistons. The transmission is unique to the SH. The overall power train is unique to the SH. The braking system, exhaust, suspension, wheels, fog lights, etc... all are unique to the car. To say that it is a jazzed up Accord is like saying that a Corvette C7Z-06 is just a jazzed up base Corvette. They have some similar components but there are enormous differences between them. I think that is a fair analogy to the Accord/RLX-SH discussion.

I think of myself as fairly intelligent, well researched, financially secure, and in general a well read car enthusiast. I'm sure the new MB S-600 Pullman I read about this morning has more electronics and doodads that would humble the Acura engineers, however there is nothing about that car that makes me believe that is a "better" car than what I have. Even if I could afford such a monstrosity, I would not want to drive it because everyone would see you coming and then have an immediate expectation on who I am and my values. The RLX-SH is subtle, not in your face, and discrete. It is special without saying to world "look at me". That is cool.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:39 PM
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I guess I'm pretty dumb for having obtained a fancy Accord.

hddnav demonstrates the poor job Acura has done in trying to convince even other Acura owners of the worth of the RLX. This is the same thing that happened with the RL before it. It's only after spending some time with the car that one recognizes the extra craftsmanship that went into these builds. Not to mention, that back seat!

I didn't get as good a deal as RLX-Sport Hybrid did because I insisted on an Advance when most of the RLX hybrids available are techs. I had a $5k off MSRP deal for a Tech when I was negotiating but I insisted on an Advance, which had to be swiped from another dealer....so I paid more. Not sorry I did, either.

PS 15 Advances left on cars.com. If you want a Tech, get to dealing!
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Old 02-07-2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by hddnav View Post
The FWD RLX compares favorably to the Toyota Avalon, while is being outgunned by the Hyundai Genesis (despite the stigma of junky Korean cars, in general).
Being respectful, I have to disagree with this statement, I owned a 2014 Avalon Limited with the technology package, $45k, and traded it in after a year of ownership for the 2015 RLX Advance. No comparison, from a technology, ride or quality perspective. The RLX is light years ahead IMHO!!! The difference in price of $10k was nothing compared to the difference.
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Old 02-07-2015, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
^^^^ I'm actually dreaming about selling my S2000 and CTS-V wagon for a NSX. Operative word: DREAMING. In reality, I'm looking for a nice blue or yellow NA2.

Also in my dreamworld, Acura would be out touting the Sport Hybrid as the ultimate sleeper. They really could use the car as an AFFORDABLE example of a power-oriented hybrid. That's really what the car is. Other manufacturers are coming online with similar tech in their sedans. The window for Acura to claim dibs on the tech is rapidly closing.
i had to Google NA2 to find out its an NSX R. just to show you how far above my head you're shooting ;-) .

As for the RLX you are exactly right. it is really a very special car. still i'm torn between advocating for a bullhorn announcing how good this car is and loosing its exclusivity. i believe, like me, you have a story when you promoted a nice restaurant to friends and clients only to be asked for reservations the next time you go there.
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Old 02-07-2015, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by RLX-Sport Hybrid View Post
It is possible you are comparing the decaf RLX to the Accord and not the SH, but just in case:
Yes, my comments are primarily focused on the FWD RLX. Truthfully, in my neck of the woods (Silicon Valley), I've seen perhaps 8 FWD RLX's in a span of 1.5 years or so, while ZERO Sport-Hybrids (well, except at the Auto Show). The Sport Hybrid is a different animal, but one so scarce and plagued with bad news from the botched launch that it's almost akin to vaporware (well, except for your RLX-SH).

Originally Posted by RLX-Sport Hybrid View Post
I paid $54,500 for mine after some very serious and intentional timing on my part to make sure I would be the last delivery my dealership would have for the year on new Year's Eve. I even let them know that I could easily take delivery on January 2nd so it would be up to them if they wanted the floor plan cleared of this car before the end of the month/year. I got an awesome deal for sure. So in relation to a TLX-V6 ADV it was about $10k more for the RLX-SH Tech which I purchased.
For that price for a Sport Hybrid, you most definitely are a smart shopper! Truecar's target price for a FWD Tech is ~$55k, with no info on the Sport Hybrid target price.

Originally Posted by RLX-Sport Hybrid View Post
Regarding the comment "Accord V6 engine, slap on a different exhaust, tune it for premium fuel to goose the horsepower, and actually think that people are unintelligent enough to spend $60k on the RLX (in general, people who are in the market for $60k cars have to at least be financially savvy enough to be in that market segment, right?)", there are many differences between the motors although they have similar blocks and pistons. The transmission is unique to the SH. The overall power train is unique to the SH. The braking system, exhaust, suspension, wheels, fog lights, etc... all are unique to the car. To say that it is a jazzed up Accord is like saying that a Corvette C7Z-06 is just a jazzed up base Corvette. They have some similar components but there are enormous differences between them. I think that is a fair analogy to the Accord/RLX-SH discussion.
The problem is that most of the comments that I've leveled against the RLX's relationship with the Accord also exists with the TL/TLX, except that the smaller price difference between the Accord and TL/TLX makes it easier to justify (and also easier to buy as daily commute car). Sure, there are numerous minute differences between the Accord and the RLX, but the end result is so similar that it takes an Acura fanatic to appreciate the differences. However, it's really tough to be a fanatic, unless there is something to be fanatical about. To everyone else, the RLX is as different from an Accord as a Toyota Avalon is from a Camry.

Originally Posted by RLX-Sport Hybrid View Post
I think of myself as fairly intelligent, well researched, financially secure, and in general a well read car enthusiast. I'm sure the new MB S-600 Pullman I read about this morning has more electronics and doodads that would humble the Acura engineers, however there is nothing about that car that makes me believe that is a "better" car than what I have. Even if I could afford such a monstrosity, I would not want to drive it because everyone would see you coming and then have an immediate expectation on who I am and my values. The RLX-SH is subtle, not in your face, and discrete. It is special without saying to world "look at me". That is cool.
Based on merit alone, I too think the RLX-SH is cool and discrete. I'm not even considering a comparison between the RLX and MB or other extremes... rather I'm comparing the RLX to much more pedestrian cars, such as the Hyundai Genesis and Lexus GS. The RLX (FWD) is basically the Toyota Corolla of luxury cars; reliable, wholesome, sensible, unspectacular, and devoid of appeal to shoppers' emotions. Now, I wouldn't mind replacing my TL SH-AWD with a RLX-SH, but only if I too can get it for $55k.
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
I guess I'm pretty dumb for having obtained a fancy Accord.

hddnav demonstrates the poor job Acura has done in trying to convince even other Acura owners of the worth of the RLX. This is the same thing that happened with the RL before it. It's only after spending some time with the car that one recognizes the extra craftsmanship that went into these builds. Not to mention, that back seat!
Agree. To say that the RLX (even the "decaf" FWD one, like mine) is an overpriced Accord, Avalon or Genesis is just silly. Drive these three cars, then drive the RLX and you'll see - the RLX is more buttoned-down, more solidly-built, and a generally more capable vehicle. If you just sit back at your keyboard and look at pictures and numbers, yeah, you might think they're the same.

I'll agree Honda makes value decisions. That's probably why they're one of the most successful companies in recent history. And if they have an engine design that works well, why not use it in multiple applications? That's what most other carmakers do, because it would be stupid to build an entirely different engine for a single range of cars.

I think one of the best measures of the RLX is the number of "stupid" people who have previously owned an RL, then bought an RLX. I mean, those people need to have their heads examined!!!

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Old 02-09-2015, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX View Post
Agree. To say that the RLX (even the "decaf" FWD one, like mine) is an overpriced Accord, Avalon or Genesis is just silly. Drive these three cars, then drive the RLX and you'll see - the RLX is more buttoned-down, more solidly-built, and a generally more capable vehicle. If you just sit back at your keyboard and look at pictures and numbers, yeah, you might think they're the same.

I think one of the best measures of the RLX is the number of "stupid" people who have previously owned an RL, then bought an RLX. I mean, those people need to have their heads examined!!! .
.
No insult meant to the intelligence of the RLX owners here... actually, I think you guys must be a more intelligent, down-to-earth, less materialistic lot than the typical luxury car buyer.

However, how do you explain RLX sales being down to 200 cars per month? That is a complete sales trainwreck, to the point where the RLX is outsold by exotics! Trainwrecks don't normally happen without a major malfunction, and even I still find it baffling how the mass-market RLX, even with a botched launch, can fail so miserably in the marketplace.

How does a reasonable nice car like the RLX, from a reputable manufacturer, become so completely undesirable to the general public?
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:59 PM
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No marketing and no production volume. If no one knows what it is, or offers those who do know what it is a decent deal, it won't sell.

I think that will change with the 2016 model, which I expect will have the new grille (see ILX....ding, dong, the Beak is dead, the Beak is dead, the Beak is dead, ding dong, the wicked Beak is dead......), similar features to the 2016 MDX just announced, and moar production and advertising.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
No marketing and no production volume. If no one knows what it is, or offers those who do know what it is a decent deal, it won't sell.

I think that will change with the 2016 model, which I expect will have the new grille (see ILX....ding, dong, the Beak is dead, the Beak is dead, the Beak is dead, ding dong, the wicked Beak is dead......), similar features to the 2016 MDX just announced, and moar production and advertising.
I was very excited when the RLX SH AWD Hybrid was announced and looking forward to test driving and leasing one. After waiting 10 months for the car to ship after being held in Japan, I was offered a very brief test drive and then told no lease program you have to buy this model for full sticker. I then decided to wait for the 2016's but as of now we don't know when or if they will arrive. This combined with the east coast's constantly snowy weather convinced me to lease a 2015 MDX for a tremendous price this weekend. Thus I will enjoy one of if not the best SUV's on the road while I wait 3 years for Acura to get their act together on the RLX. So I was a lost sale for many of the reasons Bob described. At least from Acura's standpoint I remained "in the fold" but I am sure they have lost customers from the brand with the botched RLX launches of both models.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Pens Fan View Post
I was very excited when the RLX SH AWD Hybrid was announced and looking forward to test driving and leasing one. After waiting 10 months for the car to ship after being held in Japan, I was offered a very brief test drive and then told no lease program you have to buy this model for full sticker. I then decided to wait for the 2016's but as of now we don't know when or if they will arrive. This combined with the east coast's constantly snowy weather convinced me to lease a 2015 MDX for a tremendous price this weekend. Thus I will enjoy one of if not the best SUV's on the road while I wait 3 years for Acura to get their act together on the RLX. So I was a lost sale for many of the reasons Bob described. At least from Acura's standpoint I remained "in the fold" but I am sure they have lost customers from the brand with the botched RLX launches of both models.
Your dealer is a dumbass
As for the MDX, we have 2014 and its a brilliant sub. Very capable, comfortable, fast and good looking I get many positive comments, sadly all from older gentlemen.
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Old 02-10-2015, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Pens Fan View Post
Thus I will enjoy one of if not the best SUV's on the road while I wait 3 years for Acura to get their act together on the RLX. So I was a lost sale for many of the reasons Bob described. At least from Acura's standpoint I remained "in the fold" but I am sure they have lost customers from the brand with the botched RLX launches of both models.
I too waited for the RLX but I was only interested in RLX h Advance and the wait was too long for my needs. To call the RLX PAWS a flagship model seems curious when they soon after come out with a real flagship model. Isn't that admitting that the first flagship model wasn't really a flagship model?

I think that the 2014 launch of the MDX was even worse than the RLX launch. I have never seen so many forums with such dissatisfaction with a car as the Gen 3 MDX. The MDX may be Acura's bread and butter but the ratings on this car are terrible, most of the sales have been based on the reputation of the previous generations and this Gen 3 will hurt them more than any RLX.

It is interesting that the RLX had issues and it was held back from its launch whereas the MDX had even more issues but was released on time. Probably because the Japanese set standards to which they must attain and the MDX was a new design built in a new plant in a different country to previous generations. I know Acura is the American Honda but the bean counters in the US over ruled the obvious for the MDX by launching too early. The Motherland Honda bean counters had less control and the RLX was not allowed to be launched with the known issues.

The new MDX will do way more harm to Acura than the RLX ever will.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:03 AM
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^^^^ But record MDX sales goes a bit against your logic.

I think more MDXs + first year beta testers=more complaints.
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Old 02-10-2015, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Pens Fan View Post
...I was offered a very brief test drive ....
This seems strange. Did they not know that you intended to get it?

My Acura dealer is a relatively small one (Karen Radley in Woodbridge VA), but they didn't hesitate to just hand me the car.
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Old 02-10-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by neuronbob View Post
^^^^ But record MDX sales goes a bit against your logic.

I think more MDXs + first year beta testers=more complaints.
I understand your response but as I stated, the sales were driven by the Gen 1 and Gen 2 reputation. I have never known so many people on any forum return their cars, want to return their cars, quote so many issues or ask for an MMC within three months of its birth.

At least the gaps in the panels on the RLX are consistent, the MDX body geometry would be better if it were built with Legos.
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