Wall Street Journal Review
03-31-2013, 08:36 PM
#41
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Dan Neil/The Wall Street Journal
Acura RLX
CHIVALRY DEMANDS that I offer Acura a blindfold and a cigarette, because the marque is about to get it right in the heart.
The car at issue is the 2014 Acura RLX, a 310-horsepower, six-speed, midsize luxury sedan (base price: $49,345) replacing the bereft and unloved former flagship, the RL sedan, of which a mere 379 were purchased in North America in 2012. Conventional wisdom has it that the RL's problem was dimensional; the cabin was too small and tight. The RLX, which gains 2 inches of wheelbase (112.2 inches) and nearly 2 inches of width, attempts to address that complaint. Acura claims the RLX has the longest and widest greenhouse (the windowed part of the car) in the competitive set. So, orchid growers, look no further.
Photos: Acura RLX
Dan Neil/The Wall Street Journal
Click to view slideshow.
The RLX is indeed fractionally larger than many of its would-be competitors—$45,000-to-$55,000 stalwarts such as the Audi A6, BMW 535i, Cadillac CTS, Infiniti M37, Lexus GS 350 and Mercedes-Benz E350.
However, the situation becomes muddled if your cross-shopping includes the luxury-wannabe Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-Spec sedan with a 429-hp V8 ($46,800). Comparing these cars is like witnessing a murder. The Genesis has more living space than the Acura (109.4 vs. 102.1 cubic feet of EPA passenger volume), to start. And, not insignificantly, it's quicker, lighter, a lot more powerful, with more forward gears (eight vs. the Acura's six), a richer, more luxurious interior, and…wait for it…rear-wheel drive.
In fact, all the other cars in this segment send engine power to the rear wheels—if not all four wheels, like the Audi A6. Rear-wheel-drive cars have inherent advantages in handling, cornering and weight distribution. The front-drive RLX with the Advance package, like our test car, has fully 64% of its weight on the front wheels (2,432/1,565 pounds f/r), as compared with the BMW's nearly 50-50 weight distribution. Typically, drivers never come close to the cornering loads necessary to feel the difference, but in the RLX, the quicker you go, the more the nose-heaviness manifests itself in understeer, a tendency to lose grip at the front end while cornering at high lateral loads.
Making the RLX bigger fixes nothing. The RL's problem, and now the RLX's, is that the car looks and feels like an exalted, compulsively over-equipped Honda Accord.
Now, at this point, the Acura personnel in the room would jump up and start blathering about the RLX's many handling countermeasures. It is, for example, equipped with a rear-wheel steering system (Precision All-Wheel Steer) that allows the rear wheels to be pointed, independently, up to 2 degrees of toe-angle adjustment in either direction (in or out, negative or positive), for 4 degrees of articulation. This system can do neat things like toe both rear wheels in, slightly, under hard braking, to improve stability. In a sharp corner, it can toe out the rear outside wheel, increasing yaw rate and helping to neutralize understeer. Meanwhile, there's some code in the stability-control system dubbed Agile Handling Assist, through which the car, actively braking one of more wheels, helps drivers hold their line with smaller steering inputs.
These are heroic interventions and I admire them, but the best the P-AWS can do is mimic the linear response and cornering composure, the predictability, the traceability, of a more weight-balanced rear-drive car. I'm not sure what value all these acronymic systems have to the consumer if all they do is restore the RLX to merely passable luxury-sedan performance.
And, before leaving P-AWS: In low-speed maneuvering, the system turns the rear wheels out of phase—which is to say, in the opposite direction—from the front wheels. The point is to decrease the car's turning circle (another weak point in front-drive cars). And yet, even with P-AWS crabbing the rear wheels, the RLX's turning circle is a still a relatively immense 40 feet (a Mercedes E350's turning circle is 36.2 feet).
The trouble is, conventional wisdom was wrong. The RL wasn't too small, and making the RLX bigger fixes nothing. The RL's problem, and now the RLX's, is that the car looks and feels like an exalted, compulsively over-equipped Honda Accord. That's what emanates from its disposition, its creamy inoffensiveness, its hand-sanitized sterility. It cannot stand toe-to-toe with European luxury sedans and therefore cannot command the $50,000 price tag of a typical midluxury sedan.
2014 Acura RLX
Base price: $49,345
Price as tested: $61,345
Powertrain: Naturally aspirated direct-injection 3.5-liter SOHC 60-degree V6 with variable valve timing and lift and variable cylinder management; six-speed automatic transmission with manual-shift mode; front-wheel drive
Horsepower/torque: 310 hp at 6,500 rpm; 272 pound-feet at 4,500 rpm
Length/weight: 196.1 inches/3,997 pounds
Wheelbase: 112.2 inches
0-60 mph: 7 seconds
EPA fuel economy: 20/31/24 mpg, city/highway/combined
Cargo capacity: 15.1 cubic feet (with Krell audio and Advance package)
Let's take styling. I'd first like to heap scorn upon the RLX's "Jewel Eye" LED-headlight assemblies, which are a complete aesthetic failure, and massively gimmicky besides. The car looks possessed by the demon spirit of Liberace. In terms of body shape, the RLX suffers the undisguised, nose-heavy proportions of a front-drive car. In fact, 42% of the car's total 196.1 inches in length comprises front and rear overhang (for reference, the BMW's overhang percentage is 39%).
There's some psychobabble in the press kit about the car's "aero-fused" cabin silhouette and "decisive character lines" along the fuselage. Please. The shape is as somber as a medieval manuscript, and these wavering character lines induce moments of visual sag around the front quarter panels, making the car look like a suspension bridge that's sprung a few cables.
Nothing about the foregoing should surprise Acura, the luxury adjunct of Honda. The RLX is a very calculated product, and the calculation is simply that the company could save development money by retaining a front-drive platform and winning over luxury buyers with the RLX's wealth of onboard driver-assist, convenience and entertainment technologies. And man, there are chip sets aplenty, from the outrageous Krell audio system to the GPS-linked climate control to the app-laden center touch screen to the 8-inch color Navigation screen. This thing has more buttons and displays than a heart-lung machine.
More on Cars
Driver's Seat blog
Eyes on the Road
Jonathan Welsh: Me & My Car
And that brings me to what is really important—indeed, historic—about the RLX: its semiautonomous driving systems. The RLX's Advance package (which brings the price to $61,345) includes the company's Lane Keeping Assist System, which sees the road ahead and, if it senses the car drifting out of lane, will signal the electric steering to nudge the car back in line. LKAS is not exactly hands-free—the car will throw a caution light at you if it senses your hand is off the wheel too long—but it does quite significantly reduce steering workload. Similarly, the RLX's Adaptive Cruise Control With Low-Speed Follow allows drivers to set a following distance to the car ahead, and the RLX will carry on, even slowing and stopping in congested traffic.
Now, to be clear, these are safety systems, designed to back up the driver in case he gets distracted. These systems are not currently programmed to step into the driver's shoes entirely. But the potential is real, and the RLX's ability to manage itself for the most part at highway speeds is remarkable and reassuring. Which is to say: I'm reassured that many of the numskulls on the road will soon have some driving help.
So they can build an Acura that drives itself. Can they make one that buys itself?
Email Dan at rumbleseat@wsj.com.
A version of this article appeared March 30, 2013, on page D11 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street Journal, with the headline: Acura RLX: Larger, but It Still Comes Up Small.
Bad review mostly.
He does compliment all the safety options including the car practically being able to drive itself.
He disses the. 2 screens and all the user friendly buttons? The car is a technological marvel! He must be technophobic.
He doesn't like the looks- okay, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a great looking car and don't why someone would think an Accord is more attractive?
I really don't like the looks of Cadillacs. I just can't get over their traditional demographic: fat old guys. I realize that image is changing because my son thinks they're "cool".
ATS Compared to a 3 Series BMW. Nice try Caddy, but you have a Looonnngg way to go. I test drove the ATS and have driven around 3 series many times including recently.
Dan Neil/The Wall Street Journal
Acura RLX
CHIVALRY DEMANDS that I offer Acura a blindfold and a cigarette, because the marque is about to get it right in the heart.
The car at issue is the 2014 Acura RLX, a 310-horsepower, six-speed, midsize luxury sedan (base price: $49,345) replacing the bereft and unloved former flagship, the RL sedan, of which a mere 379 were purchased in North America in 2012. Conventional wisdom has it that the RL's problem was dimensional; the cabin was too small and tight. The RLX, which gains 2 inches of wheelbase (112.2 inches) and nearly 2 inches of width, attempts to address that complaint. Acura claims the RLX has the longest and widest greenhouse (the windowed part of the car) in the competitive set. So, orchid growers, look no further.
Photos: Acura RLX
Dan Neil/The Wall Street Journal
Click to view slideshow.
The RLX is indeed fractionally larger than many of its would-be competitors—$45,000-to-$55,000 stalwarts such as the Audi A6, BMW 535i, Cadillac CTS, Infiniti M37, Lexus GS 350 and Mercedes-Benz E350.
However, the situation becomes muddled if your cross-shopping includes the luxury-wannabe Hyundai Genesis 5.0 R-Spec sedan with a 429-hp V8 ($46,800). Comparing these cars is like witnessing a murder. The Genesis has more living space than the Acura (109.4 vs. 102.1 cubic feet of EPA passenger volume), to start. And, not insignificantly, it's quicker, lighter, a lot more powerful, with more forward gears (eight vs. the Acura's six), a richer, more luxurious interior, and…wait for it…rear-wheel drive.
In fact, all the other cars in this segment send engine power to the rear wheels—if not all four wheels, like the Audi A6. Rear-wheel-drive cars have inherent advantages in handling, cornering and weight distribution. The front-drive RLX with the Advance package, like our test car, has fully 64% of its weight on the front wheels (2,432/1,565 pounds f/r), as compared with the BMW's nearly 50-50 weight distribution. Typically, drivers never come close to the cornering loads necessary to feel the difference, but in the RLX, the quicker you go, the more the nose-heaviness manifests itself in understeer, a tendency to lose grip at the front end while cornering at high lateral loads.
Making the RLX bigger fixes nothing. The RL's problem, and now the RLX's, is that the car looks and feels like an exalted, compulsively over-equipped Honda Accord.
Now, at this point, the Acura personnel in the room would jump up and start blathering about the RLX's many handling countermeasures. It is, for example, equipped with a rear-wheel steering system (Precision All-Wheel Steer) that allows the rear wheels to be pointed, independently, up to 2 degrees of toe-angle adjustment in either direction (in or out, negative or positive), for 4 degrees of articulation. This system can do neat things like toe both rear wheels in, slightly, under hard braking, to improve stability. In a sharp corner, it can toe out the rear outside wheel, increasing yaw rate and helping to neutralize understeer. Meanwhile, there's some code in the stability-control system dubbed Agile Handling Assist, through which the car, actively braking one of more wheels, helps drivers hold their line with smaller steering inputs.
These are heroic interventions and I admire them, but the best the P-AWS can do is mimic the linear response and cornering composure, the predictability, the traceability, of a more weight-balanced rear-drive car. I'm not sure what value all these acronymic systems have to the consumer if all they do is restore the RLX to merely passable luxury-sedan performance.
And, before leaving P-AWS: In low-speed maneuvering, the system turns the rear wheels out of phase—which is to say, in the opposite direction—from the front wheels. The point is to decrease the car's turning circle (another weak point in front-drive cars). And yet, even with P-AWS crabbing the rear wheels, the RLX's turning circle is a still a relatively immense 40 feet (a Mercedes E350's turning circle is 36.2 feet).
The trouble is, conventional wisdom was wrong. The RL wasn't too small, and making the RLX bigger fixes nothing. The RL's problem, and now the RLX's, is that the car looks and feels like an exalted, compulsively over-equipped Honda Accord. That's what emanates from its disposition, its creamy inoffensiveness, its hand-sanitized sterility. It cannot stand toe-to-toe with European luxury sedans and therefore cannot command the $50,000 price tag of a typical midluxury sedan.
2014 Acura RLX
Base price: $49,345
Price as tested: $61,345
Powertrain: Naturally aspirated direct-injection 3.5-liter SOHC 60-degree V6 with variable valve timing and lift and variable cylinder management; six-speed automatic transmission with manual-shift mode; front-wheel drive
Horsepower/torque: 310 hp at 6,500 rpm; 272 pound-feet at 4,500 rpm
Length/weight: 196.1 inches/3,997 pounds
Wheelbase: 112.2 inches
0-60 mph: 7 seconds
EPA fuel economy: 20/31/24 mpg, city/highway/combined
Cargo capacity: 15.1 cubic feet (with Krell audio and Advance package)
Let's take styling. I'd first like to heap scorn upon the RLX's "Jewel Eye" LED-headlight assemblies, which are a complete aesthetic failure, and massively gimmicky besides. The car looks possessed by the demon spirit of Liberace. In terms of body shape, the RLX suffers the undisguised, nose-heavy proportions of a front-drive car. In fact, 42% of the car's total 196.1 inches in length comprises front and rear overhang (for reference, the BMW's overhang percentage is 39%).
There's some psychobabble in the press kit about the car's "aero-fused" cabin silhouette and "decisive character lines" along the fuselage. Please. The shape is as somber as a medieval manuscript, and these wavering character lines induce moments of visual sag around the front quarter panels, making the car look like a suspension bridge that's sprung a few cables.
Nothing about the foregoing should surprise Acura, the luxury adjunct of Honda. The RLX is a very calculated product, and the calculation is simply that the company could save development money by retaining a front-drive platform and winning over luxury buyers with the RLX's wealth of onboard driver-assist, convenience and entertainment technologies. And man, there are chip sets aplenty, from the outrageous Krell audio system to the GPS-linked climate control to the app-laden center touch screen to the 8-inch color Navigation screen. This thing has more buttons and displays than a heart-lung machine.
More on Cars
Driver's Seat blog
Eyes on the Road
Jonathan Welsh: Me & My Car
And that brings me to what is really important—indeed, historic—about the RLX: its semiautonomous driving systems. The RLX's Advance package (which brings the price to $61,345) includes the company's Lane Keeping Assist System, which sees the road ahead and, if it senses the car drifting out of lane, will signal the electric steering to nudge the car back in line. LKAS is not exactly hands-free—the car will throw a caution light at you if it senses your hand is off the wheel too long—but it does quite significantly reduce steering workload. Similarly, the RLX's Adaptive Cruise Control With Low-Speed Follow allows drivers to set a following distance to the car ahead, and the RLX will carry on, even slowing and stopping in congested traffic.
Now, to be clear, these are safety systems, designed to back up the driver in case he gets distracted. These systems are not currently programmed to step into the driver's shoes entirely. But the potential is real, and the RLX's ability to manage itself for the most part at highway speeds is remarkable and reassuring. Which is to say: I'm reassured that many of the numskulls on the road will soon have some driving help.
So they can build an Acura that drives itself. Can they make one that buys itself?
Email Dan at rumbleseat@wsj.com.
A version of this article appeared March 30, 2013, on page D11 in the U.S. edition of The Wall Street Journal, with the headline: Acura RLX: Larger, but It Still Comes Up Small.
Bad review mostly.
He does compliment all the safety options including the car practically being able to drive itself.
He disses the. 2 screens and all the user friendly buttons? The car is a technological marvel! He must be technophobic.
He doesn't like the looks- okay, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's a great looking car and don't why someone would think an Accord is more attractive?
I really don't like the looks of Cadillacs. I just can't get over their traditional demographic: fat old guys. I realize that image is changing because my son thinks they're "cool".
ATS Compared to a 3 Series BMW. Nice try Caddy, but you have a Looonnngg way to go. I test drove the ATS and have driven around 3 series many times including recently.
04-01-2013, 12:08 AM
#42
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
^^^^ While the ATS is not my preference. You seem to be in the minority. Just about every comparison has said that the ATS is either near or as good as the 3 series.
04-01-2013, 02:06 PM
#43
I haven't been here in some time, but this board was one of my favorites for the lively participation. Back in 08, I really wanted a RL, but chose a Lexus GS350 AWD instead. It was an OK choice, the car was good, ran well and behaved like a Swiss watch. But that was the problem, it did everything well, but was exceptional at nothing. In the end, it was a bit boring.
So after seeing the pics of the new RLX, I was interested again. But alas, I was truly disappointed at seeing the specs, no RWD or a V8 or even a SC or turbo V6.
So this time, I bought a new car without any research, spreadsheets or much thought. I went with my gut and heart. Came across a good deal on a new Jaguar XJ supercharged with a monster 470 HP V8 in it. Snapped it up and I love it. Sure the thing is in a totally different league than the RL, but not having owned a "flagship" luxury car before, I didn't get the whole RWD, V8 thing. Now I do. What's my point? Well, on paper the RLX competes with HP, specs and technology. Where it fails, is where most flagship luxury buyers place the highest priority... Their hearts.
I've always had a soft spot for Acura. Bought back to back generation MDXs. First car was a Honda. But I think they have lost their way a bit. No longer are they edgy, but now more mainstream. The new MDX is a disappointment for me. I hope this new RLX does well, but I fear they don't understand what buyers in this segment look for.
BTW, I may be getting old, but I don't think I'm fat..... And I love the new design of the Cadillacs. The new CTS is awesome.
So after seeing the pics of the new RLX, I was interested again. But alas, I was truly disappointed at seeing the specs, no RWD or a V8 or even a SC or turbo V6.
So this time, I bought a new car without any research, spreadsheets or much thought. I went with my gut and heart. Came across a good deal on a new Jaguar XJ supercharged with a monster 470 HP V8 in it. Snapped it up and I love it. Sure the thing is in a totally different league than the RL, but not having owned a "flagship" luxury car before, I didn't get the whole RWD, V8 thing. Now I do. What's my point? Well, on paper the RLX competes with HP, specs and technology. Where it fails, is where most flagship luxury buyers place the highest priority... Their hearts.
I've always had a soft spot for Acura. Bought back to back generation MDXs. First car was a Honda. But I think they have lost their way a bit. No longer are they edgy, but now more mainstream. The new MDX is a disappointment for me. I hope this new RLX does well, but I fear they don't understand what buyers in this segment look for.
BTW, I may be getting old, but I don't think I'm fat..... And I love the new design of the Cadillacs. The new CTS is awesome.
04-01-2013, 04:19 PM
#44
Senior Moderator
Jag XJ is pure sex. 
Great choice!
+1 on "getting the whole RWD V8 thing". I completely understand what you are coming from.
As for the RLX, I am still awaiting the SH-SH-AWD model to complete my opinion of the new car. I would love a car that takes off like a rocketship and still sips fuel while carrying my whole family. In the case of my current car, I've got 2 out of 3.
Great choice! +1 on "getting the whole RWD V8 thing". I completely understand what you are coming from.
As for the RLX, I am still awaiting the SH-SH-AWD model to complete my opinion of the new car. I would love a car that takes off like a rocketship and still sips fuel while carrying my whole family. In the case of my current car, I've got 2 out of 3.
04-01-2013, 06:40 PM
#45
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
I'm sure, if we took a survey of "regular" people (non-car fans), most of them would NOT see the Lexus ES as a dressed up Toyota. That's why the ES sells better than the very similar Toyota Avalon.
Also, despite all the praise Audi gets from car aficionados, Acura has outsold them in the USA for several years. By the way, Acura also outsell Cadillac, despite all the billions GM has invested in it.
.
Also, despite all the praise Audi gets from car aficionados, Acura has outsold them in the USA for several years. By the way, Acura also outsell Cadillac, despite all the billions GM has invested in it.
.
I read an update on the MDX and they stated that the MDX accounts for A THIRD of Acura sales. So it seems that if Acura is outselling the other brands, the MDX is shouldering the load.
Hardly a credit to the sedans.
Another comment they made that seems to echo those who are ambivalent to the styling, and I quote: "Acura's styling seems to have moved from being offensive to being completely anonymous".
04-01-2013, 10:32 PM
#46
I'm an optimist by nature, and from all the feedback I've read here and in speaking to 2 different Acura people at the NYC car show the SH-AWD RLX is going to be outstanding. It'll get 30 mpg city and more than that on the highway. It'll handle better and have more performance than the current FWD RLX. AND it's an Acura- one of the most reliable car brands on the planet! Also it sounds like it'll be a $65-70K car fully loaded- not a $75K one. No one knows for sure, but that's my prediction base on all my analysis.
I realize I may be a minority in liking the current FWD RLX- it's a terrific car IMHO. If I didn't live in area of the country that gets snow I'd consider buying it. It comes with 19" wheels- I've never the 17" wheels on my '07 RL. It's bigger than the TL- I never liked the fact that my RL is so close in size to the TL. Except, my RL is Sooo quiet. It drives drive like a luxury car- my '04 TL was noisy. I use my paddle shifters all the time.
I have high hopes for the SH-AWD RLX.
Didn't mean to insult anyone regarding Cadillacs. I realize their image is changing. If only they would clean house at the NJ dealers and higher professionals.
Guys, please go test drive the ATS. And if you ever driven a 3 Series BMW there's no way you'd think the driving experience is similar. I'm impressed that Cadillac is doing a better job with technology and performance.
The Lexus F Sport definitely competes with a 3 Series and it sounds like the new Infiniti Q50 will too- out this summer. Q50 will have a hybrid version that only adds about $3K to the sticker.
I realize I may be a minority in liking the current FWD RLX- it's a terrific car IMHO. If I didn't live in area of the country that gets snow I'd consider buying it. It comes with 19" wheels- I've never the 17" wheels on my '07 RL. It's bigger than the TL- I never liked the fact that my RL is so close in size to the TL. Except, my RL is Sooo quiet. It drives drive like a luxury car- my '04 TL was noisy. I use my paddle shifters all the time.
I have high hopes for the SH-AWD RLX.
Didn't mean to insult anyone regarding Cadillacs. I realize their image is changing. If only they would clean house at the NJ dealers and higher professionals.
Guys, please go test drive the ATS. And if you ever driven a 3 Series BMW there's no way you'd think the driving experience is similar. I'm impressed that Cadillac is doing a better job with technology and performance.
The Lexus F Sport definitely competes with a 3 Series and it sounds like the new Infiniti Q50 will too- out this summer. Q50 will have a hybrid version that only adds about $3K to the sticker.
04-01-2013, 10:40 PM
#47
I've got 2 (mine is fast as stink, but not like yours) as well and fake the third. It's actually not bad with the 8 speed tranny, 15 city and 25 highway, a bit better than the MDX gets. Plus it qualifies as a real luxury cruiser.
04-02-2013, 12:50 PM
#48
/forums/f113/outstanding-review-l-times-50451/
By the way, DW, I agree with your other comments in this thread, particularly about the folly of rushing to market with the lackluster FWD version first. As you said, no matter how able the AWD version is, by the time it comes out nobody will even care.
04-02-2013, 07:00 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Worth noting: Dan Neil LOVED the '05 RL when it came out.
/forums/f113/outstanding-review-l-times-50451/
By the way, DW, I agree with your other comments in this thread, particularly about the folly of rushing to market with the lackluster FWD version first. As you said, no matter how able the AWD version is, by the time it comes out nobody will even care.
/forums/f113/outstanding-review-l-times-50451/
By the way, DW, I agree with your other comments in this thread, particularly about the folly of rushing to market with the lackluster FWD version first. As you said, no matter how able the AWD version is, by the time it comes out nobody will even care.
04-02-2013, 07:09 PM
#50
Agreed, DW. It makes me think he was so turned off by the new one, it made him forget he ever liked the old one. Now THAT'S revulsion.
04-02-2013, 08:25 PM
#51
04-03-2013, 06:39 PM
#52
5th Gear
Join Date: Aug 2008
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That would be interesting to see. They are pretty close for now.
The XTS has 304 HP to the 310 in the RLX. The XTS can be had in AWD trim, but when the SH-SH-AWD RLX comes out it will spank the XTS.
Keep in mind as I alluded in my previous post, the XTS is a stopgap until the true flagship is introduced. It is basically a dressed up Buick LaCrosse.
The XTS has 304 HP to the 310 in the RLX. The XTS can be had in AWD trim, but when the SH-SH-AWD RLX comes out it will spank the XTS.
Keep in mind as I alluded in my previous post, the XTS is a stopgap until the true flagship is introduced. It is basically a dressed up Buick LaCrosse.
However XTS is not an RLX competitor, the new CTS is.. now when you compare the two of them, there just is no comparison at all.. Cadilac blows away the Acura..
Same platform that underpins the ATS so we know it'll be the best handling car in it's segment, plus with a 4.5 0-60 that has already been quoted with the turbo 6... that's pretty fast, can't imagine what the CTS-V will have to be...
They'll be some people who still might like the RLX, but most enthusiast types or people who like a spirited drive or enjoy the finer things, they would prefer the CTS.. And you know that motor will offer lots of tuning options, especially since it'll probably come in the ATS-V and New Buick Grand National..
I wish Honda could make a nice RWD sports oriented sedan, and really try hard.. they can be world beaters when they want to, they just have a different direction, not one many of us like..
04-03-2013, 07:40 PM
#53
OK, I take back what I said about the LS460 fsport. Someone in the office has a new GS350 and the LS is much better looking. Both cars I saw were white and at first glance I think white is harder to see distinctive features. The LS looked way better than the GS and I find the GS closer in looks to the ES.
04-03-2013, 08:08 PM
#54
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
XTS vs RLX - they're about even right now (power) but just go sit in an XTS Platinum, it simply blows away the RLX in luxury feel and quality of materials, I'm not CAdilac fan but man I was impressed at how far they've come (don't like cue though)... As for the RLX hybrid SH-AWD, sure it'll spank the XTS, but remember the XTS will soon get the 420hp Twin turbo V6 that was launched last week with the new CTS..
However XTS is not an RLX competitor, the new CTS is.. now when you compare the two of them, there just is no comparison at all.. Cadilac blows away the Acura..
Same platform that underpins the ATS so we know it'll be the best handling car in it's segment, plus with a 4.5 0-60 that has already been quoted with the turbo 6... that's pretty fast, can't imagine what the CTS-V will have to be...
They'll be some people who still might like the RLX, but most enthusiast types or people who like a spirited drive or enjoy the finer things, they would prefer the CTS.. And you know that motor will offer lots of tuning options, especially since it'll probably come in the ATS-V and New Buick Grand National..
I wish Honda could make a nice RWD sports oriented sedan, and really try hard.. they can be world beaters when they want to, they just have a different direction, not one many of us like..
However XTS is not an RLX competitor, the new CTS is.. now when you compare the two of them, there just is no comparison at all.. Cadilac blows away the Acura..
Same platform that underpins the ATS so we know it'll be the best handling car in it's segment, plus with a 4.5 0-60 that has already been quoted with the turbo 6... that's pretty fast, can't imagine what the CTS-V will have to be...
They'll be some people who still might like the RLX, but most enthusiast types or people who like a spirited drive or enjoy the finer things, they would prefer the CTS.. And you know that motor will offer lots of tuning options, especially since it'll probably come in the ATS-V and New Buick Grand National..
I wish Honda could make a nice RWD sports oriented sedan, and really try hard.. they can be world beaters when they want to, they just have a different direction, not one many of us like..
The hasn't been any confirmation whether the XTS will get the TTV6. The issue may be the room under the hood.
Presently the CTS has 318HP out of the 3.6 L V6. The 3.6 in the XTS puts out 304. I think the difference is due to the exhaust plumbing. In the CTS the engine is mounted longitudinally as opposed to the transverse mount in the XTS. The issue will be if they can fit the turbos with the engine mounted that way.
Also Cadillac isn't offering AWD with the TTV6, I believe because of concerns of whether the transfer case can handle the torque. If comparing AWD sedans, the SH-SH-AWD version of the RLX with 370hp will spank any AWD coming out of Cadillac..... For now.
As for interiors, I agree. I not once felt like I took a step down moving from my RL to my CTS, and the current ATS and XTS interiors are even better. GM has come a long way with their interiors.
04-04-2013, 12:10 AM
#55
Three things about the review:
1. He's wrong about the Genesis interior. It is not that luxurious. I know -- I own one.
2. His bias towards RWD is justified -- there's just no getting around it.
3. It is some sort of strange contortion to develop technologies to compensate for FWD shortcomings instead of simply making an honest RWD car -- just to save R&D.
I saw the RLX at the Autoshow and really looks a lot like the last gen Avalon to me i.e. an old mans car.
1. He's wrong about the Genesis interior. It is not that luxurious. I know -- I own one.
2. His bias towards RWD is justified -- there's just no getting around it.
3. It is some sort of strange contortion to develop technologies to compensate for FWD shortcomings instead of simply making an honest RWD car -- just to save R&D.
I saw the RLX at the Autoshow and really looks a lot like the last gen Avalon to me i.e. an old mans car.
04-04-2013, 12:40 AM
#56
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Three things about the review:
1. He's wrong about the Genesis interior. It is not that luxurious. I know -- I own one.
2. His bias towards RWD is justified -- there's just no getting around it.
3. It is some sort of strange contortion to develop technologies to compensate for FWD shortcomings instead of simply making an honest RWD car -- just to save R&D.
I saw the RLX at the Autoshow and really looks a lot like the last gen Avalon to me i.e. an old mans car.
1. He's wrong about the Genesis interior. It is not that luxurious. I know -- I own one.
2. His bias towards RWD is justified -- there's just no getting around it.
3. It is some sort of strange contortion to develop technologies to compensate for FWD shortcomings instead of simply making an honest RWD car -- just to save R&D.
I saw the RLX at the Autoshow and really looks a lot like the last gen Avalon to me i.e. an old mans car.
04-04-2013, 03:16 AM
#57
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Three things about the review:
1. He's wrong about the Genesis interior. It is not that luxurious. I know -- I own one.
2. His bias towards RWD is justified -- there's just no getting around it.
3. It is some sort of strange contortion to develop technologies to compensate for FWD shortcomings instead of simply making an honest RWD car -- just to save R&D.
I saw the RLX at the Autoshow and really looks a lot like the last gen Avalon to me i.e. an old mans car.
1. He's wrong about the Genesis interior. It is not that luxurious. I know -- I own one.
2. His bias towards RWD is justified -- there's just no getting around it.
3. It is some sort of strange contortion to develop technologies to compensate for FWD shortcomings instead of simply making an honest RWD car -- just to save R&D.
I saw the RLX at the Autoshow and really looks a lot like the last gen Avalon to me i.e. an old mans car.
2. This is true -- for a driving enthusiast. However, I don't think the regular sedan driver cares.
3. Adding P-AWS to FWD was probably substantially cheaper than developing a whole-new platform. Also, a new platform would mean higher manufacturing costs, which cut into profits. This is especially true if P-AWS gets included in other Acuras such as the TLX.
When the new Lexus GS debuted, the keynote speaker said that the target customer was a man in his 40s who makes over $100K (USD) per year and has a family. I assume Acura wants that same customer with the RLX. Chances are the real customer of both cars will be in his upper 40s or early 50s. Are those guys "old men?" Would someone who is 20 years older than that really care about all the gadgets in those cars?
04-04-2013, 07:07 AM
#58
Drifting
I must be an old man. I will gladly trade the "at the limit" handling traits of RWD for the ability to get to work on a snowy morning. Yes, I know, good winter tires can make up a lot of the difference, but I've owned both, and will never go back to RWD again. Add in FWD's packaging efficiencies and I understand why Acura believes FWD based vehicles (along with PAWS-type tech or an SH-AWD option for enthusiasts) is the way to go. I'm on board with that because it suits my preferences exactly. I don't want to be one of those guys in a RWD BMW I see waiting in the ditch for a tow-out on a winter day.
04-04-2013, 07:44 AM
#59
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
I must be an old man. I will gladly trade the "at the limit" handling traits of RWD for the ability to get to work on a snowy morning. Yes, I know, good winter tires can make up a lot of the difference, but I've owned both, and will never go back to RWD again. Add in FWD's packaging efficiencies and I understand why Acura believes FWD based vehicles (along with PAWS-type tech or an SH-AWD option for enthusiasts) is the way to go. I'm on board with that because it suits my preferences exactly. I don't want to be one of those guys in a RWD BMW I see waiting in the ditch for a tow-out on a winter day.
The point is that Lexus, Mercedes, BMW, and Cadillac offer RWD and AWD for those of us who have to contend with snow. They attract the enthusiast with the RWD platform, but don't have to lose out to those of us who have to be pragmatic because of where we live. As a bonus, for those who care, or even notice, some of the AWD systems are tuned to be more RWD biased. For example in the CTS the power is split 25/75 front/rear in normal driving, but can send as much as 100% of the power to the front if needed. Admittedly though the CTS system is not the same torque vectoring system that was in my previous RL, but every day driving, and even when I drive a bit aggressively I haven't missed it.
With Acura, they are generally going to be considered by those who are interested in the advantages of FWD. with the exception of the enthusiast on this board, these people are not going to be interested in the performance advantages of SH-AWD or SH-SH-AWD. The sales of the previous RL proved that. To those people, the addition of AWD is added complexity and cost for marginal improvements in foul weather over an already capable FWD system.
Look at the TL, I'm sure someone here can find the numbers, but I would bet with the choice available, very few people buy the SH-AWD model. To those customers (generally speaking) there is no need to, FWD is capable enough. Only the enthusiast looks at SH-AWD. The person shopping a 3 series (a brand from which Acura would like to steal sales) is never going to consider the car because of the bias against FWD (justified or not).
By concentrating on FWD platforms Acura is limiting their audience and generally catering to those who want to be practical and are concerned about the weather. The other brands cater to a more broader audience. By having RWD platforms they cater to those who are (or think they are) performance minded, and then they offer AWD to those who need to be a bit more concerned with ice and snow.
Last edited by GoHawks; 04-04-2013 at 07:57 AM.
04-04-2013, 08:21 AM
#60
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
What I was trying to say in too many words is this.
Acura keeps saying that they want to take sales away from BMW and Mercedes, yet all they are doing is repackaging what they've done in the past and hoping it works.
SH-AWD was pretty slick and had it's merits, but people didn't get it, and when given the choice, they also didn't GET IT. I have my doubts that people are now going to GET SH-SH-AWD.
I suspect Acura feels the same way given that they are now offering both FWD and AWD models in the RDX, MDX and the RLX (along with the TL) The only increased sales they are going to see are from those folks who wanted some luxury without the expense of AWD.
Those are people who would have been shopping the FWD luxury models like the Lexus ES, and RX or maybe the FWD Audis.
Acura keeps saying that they want to take sales away from BMW and Mercedes, yet all they are doing is repackaging what they've done in the past and hoping it works.
SH-AWD was pretty slick and had it's merits, but people didn't get it, and when given the choice, they also didn't GET IT. I have my doubts that people are now going to GET SH-SH-AWD.
I suspect Acura feels the same way given that they are now offering both FWD and AWD models in the RDX, MDX and the RLX (along with the TL) The only increased sales they are going to see are from those folks who wanted some luxury without the expense of AWD.
Those are people who would have been shopping the FWD luxury models like the Lexus ES, and RX or maybe the FWD Audis.
Last edited by GoHawks; 04-04-2013 at 08:23 AM.
04-04-2013, 10:47 AM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
What I was trying to say in too many words is this.
Acura keeps saying that they want to take sales away from BMW and Mercedes, yet all they are doing is repackaging what they've done in the past and hoping it works.
SH-AWD was pretty slick and had it's merits, but people didn't get it, and when given the choice, they also didn't GET IT. I have my doubts that people are now going to GET SH-SH-AWD.
I suspect Acura feels the same way given that they are now offering both FWD and AWD models in the RDX, MDX and the RLX (along with the TL) The only increased sales they are going to see are from those folks who wanted some luxury without the expense of AWD.
Those are people who would have been shopping the FWD luxury models like the Lexus ES, and RX or maybe the FWD Audis.
Acura keeps saying that they want to take sales away from BMW and Mercedes, yet all they are doing is repackaging what they've done in the past and hoping it works.
SH-AWD was pretty slick and had it's merits, but people didn't get it, and when given the choice, they also didn't GET IT. I have my doubts that people are now going to GET SH-SH-AWD.
I suspect Acura feels the same way given that they are now offering both FWD and AWD models in the RDX, MDX and the RLX (along with the TL) The only increased sales they are going to see are from those folks who wanted some luxury without the expense of AWD.
Those are people who would have been shopping the FWD luxury models like the Lexus ES, and RX or maybe the FWD Audis.
04-04-2013, 11:15 AM
#62
Burning Brakes
Acura says a lot of things, but I'm sure they are aware internally that they are not pursuing Tier 1. Instead, their strategy is to be "king of Tier 2," to fight off Infiniti (great cars, not a known brand), Audi (better known brand, not so reliable cars), Cadillac (great cars, tainted brand), Lincoln (who really cares?), and Volvo (?). And most of all, they are trying to achieve a level of profitability for Acura. After all, Honda doesn't have a rich European parent company or the US federal government to give it capital.
Or are you singling out Nissan and gm?
04-04-2013, 01:46 PM
#63
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Toyota is probably the largest car company (and certainly the most profitable) car company on earth right now. Honda is not in the same category.
04-06-2013, 02:06 PM
#64
I believe that reviewer is spot-on in many respects regarding the RLX. The car is bland and uninspiring in almost every respect.
Looks: If you take off the badges from the car, it looks like a Hyundai Genesis or a Lexus LS/GS. There absolutely no personality. Very safe, very non-confrontational look. Nothing about this car separates it from the field and makes you say "Damn, that looks awesome". For Accord, this is not a problem. For a flagship $50,000-$55,000 dollar car, being bland is inexcusable. This car may appeal to the pensioners who don't know any better, they retired and they want to drive a luxury Honda during their golden years. Buick used the same strategy, how did it work out?
Performance: there is none. Heavy FWD (AWD coming) car with 300 HP would be an achievement in 1990s. 20 years later, it is pathetic excuse for a flagship. Genesis offers 400+ HP V8, so do the Lexus and Infiniti models. What is RLX offering in place of non-existent performance? Nothing. This was the same story with the 2nd generation RL, and how well did that RL sell? If you can get a much faster car with the same reliability, and better looks...why would you not?
Reliability: Should be great. But who in their sane mind places reliability as top priority when buying a $55,000 car? It is saying that when dating a girl her most important quality is punctuality.
Looks: If you take off the badges from the car, it looks like a Hyundai Genesis or a Lexus LS/GS. There absolutely no personality. Very safe, very non-confrontational look. Nothing about this car separates it from the field and makes you say "Damn, that looks awesome". For Accord, this is not a problem. For a flagship $50,000-$55,000 dollar car, being bland is inexcusable. This car may appeal to the pensioners who don't know any better, they retired and they want to drive a luxury Honda during their golden years. Buick used the same strategy, how did it work out?
Performance: there is none. Heavy FWD (AWD coming) car with 300 HP would be an achievement in 1990s. 20 years later, it is pathetic excuse for a flagship. Genesis offers 400+ HP V8, so do the Lexus and Infiniti models. What is RLX offering in place of non-existent performance? Nothing. This was the same story with the 2nd generation RL, and how well did that RL sell? If you can get a much faster car with the same reliability, and better looks...why would you not?
Reliability: Should be great. But who in their sane mind places reliability as top priority when buying a $55,000 car? It is saying that when dating a girl her most important quality is punctuality.
04-06-2013, 02:26 PM
#65
04-06-2013, 02:39 PM
#66
Accord Touring
Just finished our TL lease and jumped on the Accord Touring.
Researched for months and decided it was the best overall replacement in the $30-35K segment.(maybe even higher)
Acura/Honda makes very solid, no worry products. Some of which, have very subtle but, very important details.
When the RLX awd comes out, I'll take a very hard look and if the price is deeply discounted? Probably enroll in that club
Researched for months and decided it was the best overall replacement in the $30-35K segment.(maybe even higher)
Acura/Honda makes very solid, no worry products. Some of which, have very subtle but, very important details.
When the RLX awd comes out, I'll take a very hard look and if the price is deeply discounted? Probably enroll in that club
04-07-2013, 04:20 PM
#67
CLS 6MT Navi
The headlights look gimmicky and dissonant esp with the bland plenum. it's a mismatch. Acura is really holding onto their plenum style. I thought with these new lights a new front would come, no. There's nothing else new or distinct on the body style I can see.
The RLX dash, it's a bad wannabe Buick. so un-Honda. maybe it's the tan plastics color that's so GM looking. The hated ZDX had a progressive and attractive interior, and the 2G RL dash I personally liked a lot.
I've been holding on to Acura from coupe to coupe, but my CLS is 10 yo now. I am shopping the ZDX cause I like it's uniqueness, build quality/materials, Advance tech. but it's looking like too big a driveability change from my 6MT CLS. Unless the TLX is fresh or an under $100k stylish coupe is near, I can't hold on much longer. A $100k supercoupe ain't gonna make me want to buy a TL or an MDX, and I don't think it's gonna make people suddenly want to throw money for an RLX. The SUVs will sell whether there's an NSX or not. Acura is losing me...
The RLX dash, it's a bad wannabe Buick. so un-Honda. maybe it's the tan plastics color that's so GM looking. The hated ZDX had a progressive and attractive interior, and the 2G RL dash I personally liked a lot.
I've been holding on to Acura from coupe to coupe, but my CLS is 10 yo now. I am shopping the ZDX cause I like it's uniqueness, build quality/materials, Advance tech. but it's looking like too big a driveability change from my 6MT CLS. Unless the TLX is fresh or an under $100k stylish coupe is near, I can't hold on much longer. A $100k supercoupe ain't gonna make me want to buy a TL or an MDX, and I don't think it's gonna make people suddenly want to throw money for an RLX. The SUVs will sell whether there's an NSX or not. Acura is losing me...
Last edited by 123456SPEED; 04-07-2013 at 04:23 PM.
04-07-2013, 07:44 PM
#68
Burning Brakes
The RLX will be a sales failure. I am sorry a FWD $50K is just none starter, when the competition all sport RWD or AWD.
Acura's hopes for sedans will be the TLX. Let's see what they come up with. If the TLX is better looking than the 4G TL it will be a more compelling car than the RLX, unless they get rid of the SH-AWD.
I fear Acura will be reduced to selling MDX and RDX as it's bread and butter.
Acura's hopes for sedans will be the TLX. Let's see what they come up with. If the TLX is better looking than the 4G TL it will be a more compelling car than the RLX, unless they get rid of the SH-AWD.
I fear Acura will be reduced to selling MDX and RDX as it's bread and butter.
04-07-2013, 10:51 PM
#69
The RLX will be a sales failure. I am sorry a FWD $50K is just none starter, when the competition all sport RWD or AWD.
Acura's hopes for sedans will be the TLX. Let's see what they come up with. If the TLX is better looking than the 4G TL it will be a more compelling car than the RLX, unless they get rid of the SH-AWD.
I fear Acura will be reduced to selling MDX and RDX as it's bread and butter.
Acura's hopes for sedans will be the TLX. Let's see what they come up with. If the TLX is better looking than the 4G TL it will be a more compelling car than the RLX, unless they get rid of the SH-AWD.
I fear Acura will be reduced to selling MDX and RDX as it's bread and butter.
There may be an "unwritten rule" that a luxury flaship needs to be RWD or AWD, but that's doesn't mean the rule makes sense. What does luxury have to do with AWD or RWD?
I would say the RLX appeals to 50+ baby boomers approaching retirement who want a nice ride and have the money to spend, but don't need the Audi/BMW performance. Yes, they could default to Mercedes or Lexus, but maybe they don't want a spindle grill or 3-pointed start. Why do they have to settle for an Avalon or Honda Accord Touring?
Check back in 6-months and let's see where the sales numbers stand. You may be surprised.
04-08-2013, 06:51 AM
#70
Burning Brakes
It's premature to call the RLX a sales failure. Yes, Acura is taking an unconventional approach by going FWD, but as others have pointed out, not everyone wants or needs RWD or AWD.
There may be an "unwritten rule" that a luxury flaship needs to be RWD or AWD, but that's doesn't mean the rule makes sense. What does luxury have to do with AWD or RWD?
I would say the RLX appeals to 50+ baby boomers approaching retirement who want a nice ride and have the money to spend, but don't need the Audi/BMW performance. Yes, they could default to Mercedes or Lexus, but maybe they don't want a spindle grill or 3-pointed start. Why do they have to settle for an Avalon or Honda Accord Touring?
Check back in 6-months and let's see where the sales numbers stand. You may be surprised.
There may be an "unwritten rule" that a luxury flaship needs to be RWD or AWD, but that's doesn't mean the rule makes sense. What does luxury have to do with AWD or RWD?
I would say the RLX appeals to 50+ baby boomers approaching retirement who want a nice ride and have the money to spend, but don't need the Audi/BMW performance. Yes, they could default to Mercedes or Lexus, but maybe they don't want a spindle grill or 3-pointed start. Why do they have to settle for an Avalon or Honda Accord Touring?
Check back in 6-months and let's see where the sales numbers stand. You may be surprised.
As far as the rlx hybrid, if infiniti didn't sell a ton of their 65k m hybrids, I wonder why Acura thinks it will sell 70k hybrids, if that is indeed the price.
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GoHawks (04-08-2013)
04-08-2013, 11:22 AM
#71
You forgot about infiniti and Cadillac. And if one looks at this landscape of new arrivals, there is a lot of excellent competition.
As far as the rlx hybrid, if infiniti didn't sell a ton of their 65k m hybrids, I wonder why Acura thinks it will sell 70k hybrids, if that is indeed the price.
As far as the rlx hybrid, if infiniti didn't sell a ton of their 65k m hybrids, I wonder why Acura thinks it will sell 70k hybrids, if that is indeed the price.
My point though is don't count Honda/Acura out based on a few negative reviews and let the number speak for themselves.
Audi/BMW/Cadillac/Infiniti and even Lexus today all seem to all be gunning for the "performance" angle which leaves room for buyers interested in the "luxury" angle.
04-08-2013, 11:49 AM
#72
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Yes, the mainstream luxury market is a competive landscape and Inifiniti and Cadillac should be included in the discussion. Heck, the CTS is probably considered "value-play" of the bunch.
My point though is don't count Honda/Acura out based on a few negative reviews and let the number speak for themselves.
Audi/BMW/Cadillac/Infiniti and even Lexus today all seem to all be gunning for the "performance" angle which leaves room for buyers interested in the "luxury" angle.
My point though is don't count Honda/Acura out based on a few negative reviews and let the number speak for themselves.
Audi/BMW/Cadillac/Infiniti and even Lexus today all seem to all be gunning for the "performance" angle which leaves room for buyers interested in the "luxury" angle.
04-08-2013, 12:26 PM
#73
Absolutely, they should go for it on there flagship luxury vehicle. If the American brands weren't so "tainted", it might not make sense, but I believe there is a market for those who have been priced out by Lexus, BMW and Merc for there most luxurious offering. Besides, if you have the money and want performance, you might as well go for Porsche.
04-08-2013, 01:12 PM
#74
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Absolutely, they should go for it on there flagship luxury vehicle. If the American brands weren't so "tainted", it might not make sense, but I believe there is a market for those who have been priced out by Lexus, BMW and Merc for there most luxurious offering. Besides, if you have the money and want performance, you might as well go for Porsche.
I suppose there might be some market, but there is a reason why there is a trend by the automakers to get away from building soft luxo-cruisers...... The demographic were not repeat buyers. In other words they died (of old age).
I am not being a smart ass. I am serious. Even Toyota is trying to reinvent the Avalon, which was often referred to as a Japanese Buick, into a sportier model that appeals to a younger segment.
Why do you think Cadillac got rid of the DTS and why is Lincoln struggling? Also (generally speaking) that segment isn't a big fan of all the technology in today's cars.
God help us if we start seeing Acuras with oversized numbers on the speedometers like the old Buicks.
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noobie (04-08-2013)
04-08-2013, 01:17 PM
#75
Suzuka Master
But look at where Cadillac is headed, the ATS is the new low end, CTS is expected to move up to start at $50K or more and I assume their next project will be to replace the XTS with a true flagship. Everyone is chasing the Germans and trying to offer a slightly better value. And Even Buick has been re-invented to be more sporty so chasing Buick and the old Cadillac market is a mistake.
04-08-2013, 01:36 PM
#76
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
How ironic, I just came across this.....
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/08/a...s-taking-hold/
A few signs that Cadillac's revival is taking hold
Only a flatworm would not have predicted the Cadillac ATS would help increase sales for America's erstwhile luxury brand of record; however, even the best automotive oracles didn't realize by how much: The ATS fueled a 49-percent increase of the brand's year-on-year sales in March, the sixth straight month of growth for Cadillac. The momentum helped push General Motors to post a 6.4-increase in sales in March versus 2012, leading its domestic competitors.
Dealership salesmen are among the first to register the shift occurring at Cadillac. A Texas dealer related an incident in which he helped a mother affix a baby seat in a car for a test drive, explaining that as opposed to the older buyers that are still a Cadillac mainstay he's getting "a pretty diverse group that's coming through the door now" who are "younger and better educated." Aided by incentives on the ATS, Cadillac's sales are up 38 percent so far this year, overtaking Acura as the fourth best selling luxury brand, and GM stock is benefiting with incremental gains because of it. Based on early response, the new 2014 Cadillac CTS should keep things going in the same direction.
The trend at the Wreath and Crest is part of a larger sales trend happening among domestics – with other models like the Dodge Dart and Ford Fusion doing well – and overall US car sales. Head over to Bloomberg for the big picture and role the ATS plays in it.
http://www.autoblog.com/2013/04/08/a...s-taking-hold/
A few signs that Cadillac's revival is taking hold
Only a flatworm would not have predicted the Cadillac ATS would help increase sales for America's erstwhile luxury brand of record; however, even the best automotive oracles didn't realize by how much: The ATS fueled a 49-percent increase of the brand's year-on-year sales in March, the sixth straight month of growth for Cadillac. The momentum helped push General Motors to post a 6.4-increase in sales in March versus 2012, leading its domestic competitors.
Dealership salesmen are among the first to register the shift occurring at Cadillac. A Texas dealer related an incident in which he helped a mother affix a baby seat in a car for a test drive, explaining that as opposed to the older buyers that are still a Cadillac mainstay he's getting "a pretty diverse group that's coming through the door now" who are "younger and better educated." Aided by incentives on the ATS, Cadillac's sales are up 38 percent so far this year, overtaking Acura as the fourth best selling luxury brand, and GM stock is benefiting with incremental gains because of it. Based on early response, the new 2014 Cadillac CTS should keep things going in the same direction.
The trend at the Wreath and Crest is part of a larger sales trend happening among domestics – with other models like the Dodge Dart and Ford Fusion doing well – and overall US car sales. Head over to Bloomberg for the big picture and role the ATS plays in it.
04-08-2013, 01:39 PM
#77
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Here is the Bloomberg article referenced.
The "buzz" mentioned in this article is what Acura needs to create!!!!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...les-surge.html
The "buzz" mentioned in this article is what Acura needs to create!!!!
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...les-surge.html
04-08-2013, 02:20 PM
#78
Wow, 49% is freaking impressive. Acura better get cracking, They are about to get bumped to 6th place by Audi. YTD March Audi, 34,186 for. 16% YoY increase. Acura 34,953 for a 15% YoY change.
The new MDX could save them though.
Their are a couple interesting articles in USA today. More related to TL, but interesting read:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-audi/2061311/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-benz/2060349/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-benz/2060715/
The new MDX could save them though.
Their are a couple interesting articles in USA today. More related to TL, but interesting read:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-audi/2061311/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-benz/2060349/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...-benz/2060715/
04-08-2013, 02:29 PM
#79
I suppose there might be some market, but there is a reason why there is a trend by the automakers to get away from building soft luxo-cruisers...... The demographic were not repeat buyers. In other words they died (of old age).
I am not being a smart ass. I am serious. Even Toyota is trying to reinvent the Avalon, which was often referred to as a Japanese Buick, into a sportier model that appeals to a younger segment.
Why do you think Cadillac got rid of the DTS and why is Lincoln struggling? Also (generally speaking) that segment isn't a big fan of all the technology in today's cars.
God help us if we start seeing Acuras with oversized numbers on the speedometers like the old Buicks.
I am not being a smart ass. I am serious. Even Toyota is trying to reinvent the Avalon, which was often referred to as a Japanese Buick, into a sportier model that appeals to a younger segment.
Why do you think Cadillac got rid of the DTS and why is Lincoln struggling? Also (generally speaking) that segment isn't a big fan of all the technology in today's cars.
God help us if we start seeing Acuras with oversized numbers on the speedometers like the old Buicks.
Anyone remember the Park Avenue? My dad had a LeSabre Limited!If Acura does this, then they will lose me as a a potential buyer. Besides we already have Hyundai doing a good job at turning out well appointed soft luxo cruisers at very competitive prices. Even they are trying to get more edgy with their concept vehicles and the Genesis Coupe and Velostar.
04-08-2013, 02:41 PM
#80
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Anyone remember the Park Avenue? My dad had a LeSabre Limited!If Acura does this, then they will lose me as a a potential buyer. Besides we already have Hyundai doing a good job at turning out well appointed soft luxo cruisers at very competitive prices. Even they are trying to get more edgy with their concept vehicles and the Genesis Coupe and Velostar.
It was "pretty darned good" according to the source, but Cadillac ultimately came to the conclusion that if they were going to compete with the Germans they were going to have to build a new, balanced RWD platform.
Do you think the ATS would be getting the same love if it was basically a warmed over and luxo'd up Chevy Cruze?