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I'm posting this here in the RLX forum because you RLX guys always seem to have really good advice. My wife's 2014 SH-AWD TL is on the recall list (the VIN checker is not yet active but my dealer was able to find out today). So ...
1. Is the Takata PSDI-5 inflator on the TL the same inflator that is the subject of the 25 million other recalls, and that has resulted in many deaths?
2. If it is the same inflator, my gut says to NOT drive the car, even though there will not be replacements for several months, and even though millions of other cars with the original Takata inflator are still on the road (and still killing people). Advice?
3. If is is not the same inflator, and has not, as Honda says, resulted in any "incidents" as yet, is there any real reason to stop driving the car?
What bothers me most is that my car was manufactured in 11/13, six months AFTER the first Takata recall. If Acura decided that the inflator was okay, presumably after careful examination because of the 2013 Takata information, and continued to use it in cars up to 2016 models, and if there have not been any "incidents" with it, then what has prompted the new and sudden recall of these cars? They are not giving out many details, but the latest of nine U.S. Takata inflator death was in December and the lack of information is troubling.
Only you can decide what level of safety measures to take. And Acura cannot diminish your safety concerns. But it sounds like loaners may be made available should you determine it is unsafe to drive the car until the inflator replacement arrives. And by doing so, that may accelerate the arrival of your replacement airbag(s).
"If your vehicle is affected by this recall, we encourage you to take immediate action to have it repaired. There is no cost for the repair. Should there be any wait for a replacement airbag inflator, our dealers are prepared to provide alternative transportation in the form of a loaner or rental vehicle, free of charge, until your own vehicle is repaired."
This is extensive, across many manufacturers and models. Even Daimler (Mercedes) and BMW are impacted. TDIs VWs might as well be repurchased at sticker price.
Honda said the driver-side airbag inflators in these vehicles may experience “over-pressurization” due to exposure to high temperatures and high absolute humidity. Such a buildup can cause the inflators to rupture during deployment in an accident, spraying sharp particles toward the vehicle occupants.
Yes, this condition is what has caused 8 or 9 deaths to date and measurable serious injuries from deployed airbags.
Takata is toast. Honda has already terminated their relationship with them. As bureaucratic typical, they dripped releasing just how many cars were impacted until investigators were on their tails. And I believe the auto manufacturers also tried to control releasing recalls as the financial impacts and replacement parts supply is monumental. I believe even Honda was accused of that. I suspect Honda and other manufacturers were seeking a relacement supplier and was full throttle to get them ramping up the replacements while trying to manage expanding scope of car actually impacted.
Right now all new RDXs and ILXs are on Stop Sale notification. This Stop Sale also impacts ANY CPO Acura on the recall list above. But they currently indicate only early build ILXs and RDXs are impacted, so once the VIN range is determined, they may be able to sell unaffected VINs.
But, this is a spreading cancer in the auto industry and if any one truly knows the real scope of how many are actually impacted, they are not talking.
I am expecting the RLX to be impacted, eventually. And particularly those built 2013 - 2015, with perhaps the 2016 Model Year escaping the recall. But as history demonstrates, they never really stop the recall scope.
Last edited by TampaRLX-SH; 02-13-2016 at 03:17 PM.
Thanks, Tampa. I understand that the issues may be similar, but I'm not quite sure if you are saying you think this is the same inflator or not. If it's a new inflator that has not been involved in prior incidents, I am way more inclined to wait, but if this PSDI-5 inflator has itself been the subject of prior recalls, I am inclined to have my wife get a loaner. I am wondering if we actually know this, since none of the statements from Honda provides any details.
Equipment Information :
Brand / Trade : Takata
Model : PSDI-5 Driver Air Bag (Non-Desiccated)
Part No. : .
Size : NR
Function : NR
Descriptive Information : This DIR includes non-desiccated Takata PSDI-5 inflators from start of production
(SOP) through the end of Model Year (MY) 2014.
Production Dates : JAN 01, 2003 - AUG 31, 2014
The latest death reported was from a driver of a 2006 Ford Ranger. Based on this defect report, the suspect part was used between January 2003 - August 2014. I would conclude the part was not modified (or at least sufficiently so) and any vehicle with this part has potential for this situation.
Again from the Takata Defect Report I linked above....
"All products newer than MY14 remain under investigation
and could be subject to recall at a later date."
Further, some vehicles that already had the recall processed, the replacements had the same part and must be recalled again. Hence the termination of Takata.
That Takata defect report link doesn't work for me. Was that report, and hence the PSDI-5 inflator, linked to the latest death? Or is it just that the PSDI-5 was in production this whole time? What's confusing to me is that Honda says this latest recall is for a part for which there have been no reported incidents, yet we know that there have been Honda-related injuries due to Takata inflators in the past. Hence I assume that the PSDI-5 has not been connected to previous problems. I am sure I am missing something here, as I remain confused.
Wonderful, one whole day with our newbe to us, and recall. Could be worse I guess
There is currently NO recall for the Takata airbag issue with the RLX. But do not be surprised if the recall expands to include the RLX. Time will tell.
Thanks, Tampa. I managed to get the PDF (only) by searching the site for that document; the link does not work for me. The report is interesting, but ambiguous. It says that Toyota has previously issued a recall for PSDI-5 inflators (though I can't find that report on the site), so we can conclude that this inflator has been prerviously implicated. But then it says on the next page that it is not aware of any field (as compared to test) incidents in which a PSDI-5 has ruptured. Very confusing. I guess we must conclude that the PSDI-5 inflator is potentially as problematic as other Takata designs.
Perhaps the most telling statements are that it appears that time (longer) and humidity (more) are the best indicators of possible rupture, and therefore we can conjecture that, given the tens of millions of these things on the road, and the fact that there have been a relatively smnall number of incidents, newer cars in dry environments are unlikely to suffer a rupture. That seems statistically true, but not terribly comforting!
fsmith, I have to wonder how many deaths per million cars are related to this recalled item. Is it a concern yes, but I'm wondering what the real risk is to any one vehicle/driver in relation to other forms of transportation? Even if your TL is one of the recall cars, what are the odds that you or your wife could sustain an injury or worse on any one day? My assumption is all cars with this air bag device are cause for concern, but does that mean we should park every car until the defective part is replaced? Seems like an applied risk to me. What do you think?
I agree, RLX-Sport Hybrid, although for a slightly different reason. While the real risk is low relative to other forms of transportation, or even to driving in a car with fewer safety features than the '14 TL, this Takata airbag problem is particularly troubling because it is exactly when you need the safety features of the car that it hits you in the face with shrapnel. So I feel that it warrants some further examination. But my conclusion is that the risk of encountering a bad Takata explosion decreases significantly in a newer car in a dry climate (for instance, at minus 7 deggrees on a brisk Boston morning!).
We know that the deaths per million cars from all Takata airbags (likely including some of the PSDI-5 inflators) stand at 9 per 25+ million, but it appears that when you limit the numbers to newer cars in northern climates they go way down. In any case, I do agree with your conclusion that we should continue to drive the TL until the fix is available. Unless, of course, the available loaner happens to be a new, unsold RLX Sport Hybrid, in which case, grab it!
My wife's '08 RL is included in the latest Takata recall. I spoke to my service manager yesterday, and he tells me the best information he has is that the parts will not be available until summer.
I called Acura Client Service yesterday and expressed my concern about driving my 2009 TL until its airbag is replaced. I was assigned a case number and today a lady from Acura called me and informed me that Acura can rent a car for me free of charge until the airbag is replaced. But my TL has to be parked in a Acura dealership while I am driving a rental car. I told her that I had to think about, and the lady said that I could call her any time if I take up the offer. Meanwhile, I will just drive my 2016 RLX a little more frequently :-).
Hope the above information is useful to those who are affected by the airbag recall.
We got the same sort of story on our '13 TL. "Months" to get parts. Dealer had to take four loaners out of service and several used cars were given stop sale.
There seems to be another issue with the air bag computer coming along as well.
When reading the CD report on the Takata affected vehicles, I noticed under Acura: Acura: 2002–2003, 2009–2014 TL; 2003 CL; 2003–2006 MDX; 2005–2012 Acura RL; 2007–2016 RDX; 2010–2013 ZDX; 2013–2016 ILX The RL is listed as 2007-2016 is this include the RLX???
The recalls are not only model years, but VIN ranges. The RL and RLX are different VIN groups, so not a continuous range from 2007 - 2016.
The RL is JHK4B1
The RLX is JH4KC1 for PAWS and JH4KC2 for Sport Hybrid
Further, that range C&D published excludes the 2005-2006 RLs, which ARE included the recall. The only 2016 models are early build RDX and ILX......so far.
We were planning to buy the '13 TL at lease end in April. Dealer suggested that we extend the lease for six months so that Acura continues to own the vehicle until the recall is fixed.
I didn't know that lease extension was an option. Acura Leasing was OK with it.
Random question for any lawyers present: Does continuing to drive your car after receiving notice of a recall in any way relieve Acura or Takata of their liability for damages if the airbag inflator explodes and hurts you?
Possibly. When I had my TL in for service recently, the invoice said they advised me of the recall and the availability of a rental/loaner and that I declined. That's almost right, but I assume Acura would argue that a customer was informed of the recall, the availability of a loaner/rental and decided against taking advantage. In legal talk, it's called "assumption of the risk."
Random question for any lawyers present: Does continuing to drive your car after receiving notice of a recall in any way relieve Acura or Takata of their liability for damages if the airbag inflator explodes and hurts you?
Not a lawyer, but you do have the responsibility to mitigate damages, so once notified you should follow through with things like calling the dealership and making an appt, requesting a comparable loaner and so forth.
The manufacturer still bears the brunt of the responsibility, but...
Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD
Possibly. When I had my TL in for service recently, the invoice said they advised me of the recall and the availability of a rental/loaner and that I declined. That's almost right, but I assume Acura would argue that a customer was informed of the recall, the availability of a loaner/rental and decided against taking advantage. In legal talk, it's called "assumption of the risk."
...in this case Acura's lawyers could argue that they went out of their way to offer you a loaner, a free cup of coffee while waiting on your loaner and the opportunity for you to try out new cleaning supplies on the filthy windshield of your Enterprise Kia Rio. You declined and so it ain't their fault that the airbag did some plastic surgery on your face.
The manufacturer is never absolved of responsibility but this may well reduce the amount of damages you might get.
I'm not a lawyer, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night but I do work in the industry.
One thing to not is that they should be offering you a comparable loaner. If you have a TL tech (or whatever the top of the line TL is) then they need to give you the SuperDuper EX with the extra special widget package instead of the SuperDuper Lowline stripper version.
Some dealers are putting caps on their loaner costs (I've heard from $30-50) but a wise consumer should just say "It isn't my problem what the loaner costs, put me into a comparable car. If I wanted to drive a Kia Rio for a half year then I would have bought one."
Did Acura use a different company for the tsx airbags ?
Not sure who makes the airbags for the TSX - but - remember that the TSX is made in Japan so it would have an airbag coming from a different plant even if it were Takata.
Remember that not all Takata airbags are bad - just the ones made in certain plants and using a certain design.
Not sure who makes the airbags for the TSX - but - remember that the TSX is made in Japan so it would have an airbag coming from a different plant even if it were Takata.
Remember that not all Takata airbags are bad - just the ones made in certain plants and using a certain design.
A friend with a fairly good sized dealership in Baltimore says that at open this morning he has 120 people in rental cars...and it's going to get a lot worse.
A friend with a fairly good sized dealership in Baltimore says that at open this morning he has 120 people in rental cars...and it's going to get a lot worse.
Glad I got mine yesterday. Mazda CX-5. Very nice. Was told I'd have it until September most likely.
I'm not intending to convince anyone about anything, but I would note by way of context that this was a 2002 Civic. I believe that all the bad inflator mishaps have been in cars no newer than 2008 models (I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong about that date). So I see a big difference in probability in newer vs. older cars and in southern vs. northern climates. Just a thought if you are trying to make up your mind about driving a recalled car. We are still driving our recalled 2014 TL because it is likely safer overall than the minimally maintained and less well-outfitted rental I would get from Enterprise, and because the car has never left New England. But that's just me and my car's specifics; others' decisions may rightfully be different.
I'm not intending to convince anyone about anything, but I would note by way of context that this was a 2002 Civic. I believe that all the bad inflator mishaps have been in cars no newer than 2008 models (I hope someone will correct me if I am wrong about that date). So I see a big difference in probability in newer vs. older cars and in southern vs. northern climates. Just a thought if you are trying to make up your mind about driving a recalled car. We are still driving our recalled 2014 TL because it is likely safer overall than the minimally maintained and less well-outfitted rental I would get from Enterprise, and because the car has never left New England. But that's just me and my car's specifics; others' decisions may rightfully be different.
Excuse me, but I am totally amazed how so many people are ignoring the recall until the parts come in. The company is giving you a friggin' free car rental. Not only that, but it's a 2016 car. You can get another car later if you don't like the one they have on hand. I seriously can't believe it.
Due respect, lbotez, but I am not ignoring the recall, nor am I suggesting anyone else do that. I am simply saying that it's complicated and everyone has to figure it out for themselves. Age of car? History of humidity? Safety features of car vs. those of rental? I am not suggesting that anyone else should make the same decision I did, only that it is not a simple decision, and it is not a no-brainer unless you have a pre-2008 car garaged in Florida for more than eight years. For a 2014 car garaged in New England, it is a more nuanced decision. That's all I'm saying.
Due respect, lbotez, but I am not ignoring the recall, nor am I suggesting anyone else do that. I am simply saying that it's complicated and everyone has to figure it out for themselves. Age of car? History of humidity? Safety features of car vs. those of rental? I am not suggesting that anyone else should make the same decision I did, only that it is not a simple decision, and it is not a no-brainer unless you have a pre-2008 car garaged in Florida for more than eight years. For a 2014 car garaged in New England, it is a more nuanced decision. That's all I'm saying.
Of course, but dealers are saying that they'll repair cars with loaners out first (just another reason for yet another claim) and you're at the bottom of the barrel for future compensation since you didn't seem inconvenienced by the recall - and heaven forbid if something did happen.
After the reported death last week, D2 said she would no longer drive the TL until it was repaired. The dealer set her up with a rental car with Enterprise.
02-13-2016, 01:40 PM
