R. White

Motor Week ( PBS) episode 3413 ended the show with a few comments about their long term test of the RLX PAWS. Most comments were positive, however, they noted that at 30,000 miles, the vehicle had developed noise in the rear suspension.

George Knighton

Can that show be seen anywhere?

George Knighton

Yes, it is. Here's the segment about the RLX:

acuranj18

That's a great long-term review, while sad at the same time that, as they point out, what is an overall great vehicle is not selling better.

Zoommer

Any more updates from those who had their RLX serviced for the suspension TSB(s)? Anyone on the Sports Hybrid get the suspension replaced? Just curious as to the ongoing experience with new parts now that there are some more miles on the car?

Thanks

Malibu Flyer

My suspension on the Sport Hybrid is fine. i don't recall any of us with them have expressed and suspension issues. The car is different enough that the suspension setup hasn't had the same problems as the PAWS.

neuronbob

^^^^

Correct. None of us who own hybrids has had any suspension issues.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I have noticed this thread for some time and ignored it until this morning. I have had the radio on every time I have been driving, and for the most part I have been on very smooth roads since I picked it up on New Year's Eve. After driving it on some choppy roads this morning I heard the noise! I then drove on a concrete road that is a mess. On every pavement seam, I heard the noise. I did not feel it in the steering wheel, but could definitely hear it. I will call the dealer tomorrow to set up an appointment for them to look at it. Since I have purchased 8 cars from them over the years, I hope they will not make this an issue. Details to follow.

Malibu Flyer

Will be interested in hearing what you learn. Look forward to your follow up posts on this.

neuronbob

Well. I spoke too soon.

holografique

Nothing new to report. The "rattle" issue has not come back and appears to be permanently resolved.

The overall suspension feel is slightly improved with slightly better recovery from bumps, potholes, and other road conditions. But overall, my stance still remains that suspension for the PAWS was bad execution and design. Prior posts from George indicating the suspension was originally designed for the heavier Hybrid further supports my stance.

No other Acura in the current lineup (which I've driven them all) and past models (3G TL, 4G TL, TSX) exhibit the jitteriness, harshness, and overall poor response and lack of "absorbtion" that the PAWS RLX exhibits.

Agree or disagree, after 30k miles and coming up on two years in July with the car, and plenty of others commenting on similar experiences, I think I'm speaking from facts, not opinion.

R. White

Six weeks since the suspension repair. No rattles. Seems that they fixed the issue.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

So here is the update: I spoke to the dealer and he said that this TSB does not apply to the RLX Sport Hybrid. It applies to the regular RLX. He said that the suspension pieces are completely different than the "decaf" RLX. As a result they would have to examine the car to see what they can find out. That was not what I wanted to hear. Now in all honesty the rattle noise is slight and I have to be nit-picking, boarder line a pain in the ass to truly claim it is a problem. Most normal people would likely not hear it. So we will see what happens when I take it in. It is otherwise shockingly quiet.

On a side note, in both trips today I achieved 38.6 mpg and 39.7 mpg respectively. I drove as if my grandmother were in the car, but I discovered how to drive more in EV mode than the combo gas-EV. It paid immediate dividends on the gas mileage. Slight rattle and all I am like a kid in a candy store driving this car. Why Acura built the regular RLX at all is stupid. I think the only version they should have built is the Sport Hybrid in the two versions we have a choice to buy. I feel very lucky to have this car, and the exclusivity and rarity make it all that much better. I'm taking the first road trip tomorrow so we see how it does for a 300 mile trip.

Mike_TX

I admit I haven't plowed through all 7 pages of this thread (it makes my eyes hurt), but I wish someone could describe the sound better than just "rattle". To me a rattle is a repeating series of sounds (rattle-rattle-rattle), as opposed to a clunk or thunk or other one-time sound.

It strikes me that a rattle coming from outside and underneath the car would be pretty hard to hear, if it's like the rattle of sunglasses left in your sunglasses holder, or loose coins in your console. I'm not denying it exists, since it's now the subject of a TSB, I'm just curious about it.

I have a one-time "click" sound on the passenger side if I hit a sharp pavement break, railroad crossing, etc., while turning, but I wouldn't call it a rattle. Is that something like what people are reporting?

.
.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

It looks like you have the non-Sport Hybrid. If that is correct the rattle in the front end is different than that of the Sport Hybrid as I was told the suspensions are different. I am not an engineer, nor am I speaking from a highly educated position so if I am wrong I apologize in advance. My rattle again is faint and I feel almost stupid saying anything about it because it is very slight. I will lower my tire psi before my trip tomorrow to see if that helps. I will be traveling on the same roads in which I heard the noise so we will see. The sound is metallic in nature, almost what I would imagine to be two thick or dense pieces of metal bumping into each other in a confined space. It does not sound like a lose tie rod end banging around, or a worn out sway bar bushing giving the sway bar space to move around within the housing space. I'm sure it can't be heard by someone outside, and it is only faintly heard inside, even in EV mode with the radio off. I can hear it, but I have to listen for it. Today a friend of mine pulled up in a Lexus LS600 and now that I think about it I should have taken some shots of the two cars together. He gave me a ride and I have to say that is a very nice car too. For comparison the RLX Sport Hybrid is significantly quieter even when the engine is running. Now if I never had the Sport Hybrid and then had a ride in the Lexus, I would be complimenting the Lexus for its near silent running. However, after getting out of the Sport Hybrid, the Lexus is not as quiet. A true compliment to the RLX SH. The pick up seemed to be similar in both cars, but with a nod to the RLX-SH. I think that is because the LS is 700+ lbs heavier. The interior space looked to be about the same, as was the trunk. The wheelbase looked longer and the over all length was longer in the LS. The width looked to be about the same as well as the height. When he told me he paid more than $120k, I suddenly felt like a genius having paid less than half of that for my car.

holografique

Mike - the "rattle" sounded like large components within the frame of the car "juggling" and "tumbling" around in the background when you hit a bump. It was obviously somewhat muted since you are inside the cabin when it happens and as we know the cabin is very sound-proof, but you could definitely hear it.

Think of it this way:

1. there is a single bump in the road.

2. usually you'd expect to hear and feel two distinct "thuds". Once for the front axle and once for the rear axle.

3. with the RLX "suspension" issue, you'd hear more than just that. You'd hear several additional "rattles" and "thuds" following the initial impact of the bumps. Again, making you sense as though there is clearly something wrong with the car and it's having to do alot more than it should have to to try and fully recover and stabilize itself from a simple bump in the road.

As a result, when you combined the sound with how bad the faulty suspension was at recovering from bumps, it made you feel like the car was simply not put together properly, or that it was cheap and made of plastic and there was something loose inside the body-frame. It made the car feel very fragile and as if something was going to break if you went over any bumps at any speed higher than 30+ mph. That's the best that I can describe it.

The TSB paperwork I received indicated "faulty dampers". I don't know anything more than that around the specific mechanics of how and why the faulty dampers were causing soo much noise.

Mike_TX

Thanks, Holo. Your first sentence described it perfectly for me to visualize it.

I always have the radio going, so I guess I need to turn things off and listen to see if I have the issue now that I know what I'm listening for.



.
.

Zoommer

Thx! Let's see how the rest of us make out over time.

George Knighton

And at that point, you'll realize you want to start talking about wind noise.

:-)

George Knighton

Thank you for that description.

I've wondered before if I'm hearing what you and other had heard, but I could ignore it.

From your description, I do not have the same noise.

What I hear is a single hard thump as the valving comes into play, I suppose. It must be hard to hide with sound deadening when there are so many hard connections between the body and the suspension.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Dropping the air pressure to 35/34 F/R psi, made a difference. I got 30.1 mpg with most of the driving around 70 mph and almost no local EV only driving. What an awesome car! I really enjoyed stopping and restarting at the toll, just to feel the jet like torque getting back up to speed. Passing is fantastic! I drove 272 miles and I am exactly on the 1/2 tank mark now. Front end rattle is not significant enough to do anything about. I feel like I am nitpicking and looking for something to complain about such a fantastic machine. The sound system is unbelievable. Even the SR71 leaked like a sieve until it got up to altitude and heated up, then it took off like a bat out of hell.

mgalbr22

Had my car in at the dealer for continued front and rear suspension clunk and rattle after shock replacement (now on third set in front, second in rear), hvac whistle and moan, false alarms from front collision warning system and headlamp recall. My car was there for 10 days. Although I directed their attention to the hvac tsb for the expansion valve replacement, the dealer stated they could not hear the noise and did nothing. (This is the second time I have complained of this.)
computer found no faults in fcws. So, no action there.
Headlamps on order. No promise date.
After 60 miles of test driving and evaluation by dealer tech, acura district mgr and others, I assume, they stated only that "the suspension has the latest countermeasure parts". No denial that the clunk and rattle don't exist and continue to come from the front and rear.
Very disappointing.

George Knighton

If the service bulletin exists, and you're complaining about that exact issue, and the dealer will not execute the service bulletin, then you should probably write to acr@ahm.acura.com, and CC the service manager of your dealership.

Include the VIN of your vehicle and the service bulletin number, and the exact symptoms associated with your complaint.

You might also want to consider visiting another dealer who might be more likely to just take your word for it.

Regarding the suspension noise, did they have any idea why the same fix with the same part numbers has worked to stop the noise on other cars? Did you notice the part numbers on your invoice?

One more thing. You referred to both a clunk and a rattle. Both noises are present after the fix, or just the clunk? A clunk when hitting a bump is something that I don't think we're going to be able to avoid with this suspension design + reactive dampers. The rattle...that should not be happening.



.

mgalbr22

i certainly agree that the hvac tsb repair should have been done. given that one's perception of and irritation by the noise are subjective, if the dealer could not perceive what the customer perceives (which i don't understand since the noise is not subtle), they should give the customer the benefit of the doubt and make the tsb repair.
i agree that normally an appeal to the service mgr or client relations should be the next step. however, the service mgr has merely been sympathetic and acura client relations of no help whatsoever.
to my knowledge the service tickets do not indicate the part numbers of parts replaced under warranty at no cost. not saying this info could not be obtained from the deale, but i don't know what value it would have to me without access to the detailed engineering drawings and specifications of the old and new parts, respectively, so i could determine what has changed.
i disagree that any new car should exhibit the type and magnitude of the clunk that i have experienced since day one. also, any rattle is clearly annoying.
my view of this is reconfirmed every time i get out of my RLX and get into any one of my other cars. Furthermore, i never experienced this with any of my other hondas and acuras, which is about 10 and counting.

neuronbob

What was the result of your hearing? I may have missed it. You obviously got a lemon. It's spent so much time in the shop that any reasonable person would want to be rid of it.

mgalbr22

As with anything involving the law and the courts, it is a long, time-consuming and frustrating process. The initial session was delayed for over 2 months by the court. It is now scheduled to take place next month. How quickly it will move forward is difficult to predict, but my understanding is that these cases rarely go to trial and instead end in some form of settlement sooner or later. That is not my hope since they should cancel the lease and take the car back.
the meter is running and everyday behind the wheel just reminds me how unfortunate my desicion was to move "up" from my TL SHAWD 6 speed to the RLX. The three TLs that we had, the s2000 and the many preludes and accords were all flawless.

neuronbob

Solution seems obvious to me. But obvious is not how our legal system works.

mgalbr22

See this new post under mdx suspension noise. I knew it was the same issue after driving a loaner for 10 days while my RLX was in. Same amplitude reactive damper design, I assume, from features listed on website. Interesting that his description of the defect is almost exactly wha thine was from day one. Reminded me of riding in an old Plymouth taxi in D.C. Or N. Y. with 200k miles on it.
"Thumbs down ACURA MDX 2015 Suspension Noise
I am truly dissappointed with the lousy rear suspension on my 2015 MDX. This SUV is supposed to stand next to the Q7, X5 & RX350 but its far from it. I returned an RX350 lease to get into this third row seater but only to be discontent with the rattling sounds going on in the rear. I only have 2000k and it sounds like a city cab whose suspension is shot. I've taken it to Acura but they say nothing is wrong. I took a test drive on a new one and it also sounds horrible. I was too excited to notice when I test drove it. Now I'm stuck with a 3yr lease. I hope they figure out what is causing all that racket back there."

weather

^^ It appears that the MDX reactive dampers have the same problem as the RDX and the ILX. Are these being used across the entire lineup?

R. White

I thought I was done with the suspension subject, however, this morning (2 F) the rear suspension was clunky over the usual bumpy areas. The front was OK.

mgalbr22

I don't find the problem to be temperature related. Sorry to hear you have the same problem. Only surprise is that you don't still have it in the front.

mgalbr22

See this entry-and others-under mdx "thumping noise". Sound familiar? "Characteristic" "result of design":
Just to add another data point here, my '15 Base has the same annoying thunk at low speeds over small irregularities in the pavement. I just got it out of the shop (where they had it for 31 days fixing a "pop" sound, which turned out to be the hatch hinge) and the loaner also thunked, just not as loudly.

There is clearly something wackadoo with the suspension or shock design, but Acura seems to be ignoring it. In fact, the explanation I got from the dealer was "It's normal because the suspension was designed to carry a lot of weight, so it makes noise when lightly loaded.". Umm... Yeah. OK.

At any rate, I've decided to buy a package of Dynamat and try to curb some of the noise myself, since it seems unlikely Acura will ever give us a fix.

This is my first Acura product, and I'm not impressed.

Chris

George Knighton

I can't help continuing to wonder whether people who describe the clunk are noticing something that Honda people might not complain about because it's always been there in some form from Civic --> Integra --> Accord --> TL --> RLX.

?

Just a thought. I don't necessarily know what I'm talking about.

I think that some of the "clunk" complaint is entirely unrelated to the "rattle" complaint, and to some extent the "clunk" might be unresolvable.

holografique

I dont think thats the case George. Ive stated many times before that none of the other Acura's in the current lineup have the same general issues as the RLX. I dont know about the MDX, but the two loaners I had, one which was for a week raod trip I took to Chattanooga didnt exhibit the issues Chris pointed out above. Ive had every other car in the lineup as a loaner, ILX, RDX, TLX, TL, TSX, and none of them exhibit the same behaviors of the RLX. Not to mention my wife's ILX which ive driven many times doesnt have the same issues. The chassis in these other vehicles dont exhibit the same amount of energy transfer as the RLX does when you hit bad road conditions.

My 3rd Gen 06 TL was by far the smoothest riding vehicle Ive ever owned and driven and I had it for 6 years.

So I dont think it has anything to do with whether someone has or hasnt been a past Honda/Acura customer. You're just going to get some people who are more sensitive to things like the ride suspension than most others. Also keep in mind that we dont have any records of how many other customers have complained that dont use the internet/forums to express their issues. They just go right to the dealer.m

R. White

I had the front repair done. Seems to be a success. I guess Acura needs to come up with a rear repair TSB.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

I am bringing my car in on Wednesday to have them check my suspension because once you hear "something", it then becomes the only thing you hear, and although my sound is very slight, it is not present in my MDX which I drove last night on a very choppy and bumpy dirt road. It was about 2 miles of very challenging pothole and rut filled nasty stuff that definitely put the MDX suspension through its paces. No clunks, pings or rattles other than my kids complaining as they were bouncing around in the back seat. I will report back about what if anything they find. One other item, I spoke to Acura client relations on Friday and reported both the good and the "needs attention" stuff. The person on the other end of the phone was very nice and listened to what I had to say. He said that he drove the SH too (don't know if that means he owns one), and he affirmed that there have been some reported complaints about the suspension rattle/clunking. He said that I should take the car to the dealer and if I am not satisfied with their findings, that I should call him back directly for assistance. I told him that I was not looking to make an issue over nothing, but it is there very faintly. He assured me that if there was something to address, it would be promptly. He said, "you are driving our flagship, so we want it to be right for you". We will see.

holografique

Very promising input there from your conversations with Client Relations. Great to see further confirmation that THIS IS AN ISSUE. Even with my recent post on improvements I'm seeing, this is still a general issue and not one of perception. This car simply shouldnt drive this way, and its great to see confirmation that it shoudnt.

It's also great to see them caring about the fact that their flagship vehicle and the quality of the product should represent that it is.......a FLAGSHIP! We pay more to gain a better experience. Otherwise there is no point in paying more of our money if we are going to get a lsser experience when compared to their other cars in the lineup. And anyone who argues that very simple equation is out of touch on the whole premise of selling goods to a consumer.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Considering dealerships of any brand are not generally business entities that people rant and rave about very often (positive things), but my dealer seems to be fairly good from my past dealings with them over the years. Lexus has built a great reputation for high levels of service and Acura still seems to be behind them in many areas in my opinion. I like their product better than any Lexus model (LFA and ISF as the exceptions). MB and Audi seem to have very high levels of service too. I have never been drawn to any of the MB models and the same for Audi with the exception of the RS6 and the R8V10. Where I am going with this thesis is that if Acura is attempting to be a similar step up from Honda as Lexus is from Toyota, or Infiniti over Nissan, then they have to be vigilant and aggressive about addressing any technical or mechanical issues that arise while using their product, much less their flagship model. I am not taking anything away from the decaf RLX model owners, but the SH in Tech or Adv models are the flagships of the brand and Acura is betting that we are the target market who will pony up for the NSX too. I doubt a Ferrari 458 buyer will look at the NSX, order one and then by an ILX. I would think they would "step back" into an RLX-SH regardless of the year (2014 or potentially 2016 if that materializes). Also one could argue that the NSX will attract a one off buyer and not cross shop for an MDX or an RLX-SH. I am not trying to propose that I am right, but simply offering another perspective.

One other item, I have noticed that the discussions within the RLX forum are notably more adult and intelligent as there clearly is a different "feel" elsewhere on the Zine. Thank you everyone.

woropallo

RLX SH - I am not taking anything away from the decaf RLX model owners, but the SH in Tech or Adv models are the flagships of the brand and Acura is betting that we are the target market who will pony up for the NSX too.

Not sure I agree with you, the RLX is the Acura flagship and the SH-AWD as well as the PAWS are just version of the flagship IMHO.

RLX-Sport Hybrid

Point well taken. Again I am just making a guess/argument on what a potential buyer might consider. Personally I can't imagine donating a kidney to buy an NSX, as my wife would never go for that. Actually it isn't my dream sports car anyway so I would not be responsive to the cross marketing. I would welcome a drive or a ride, but would likely never buy one if given the opportunity.