Sport Hybrid issue with Catalytic Converter
09-22-2016, 01:58 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Sport Hybrid issue with Catalytic Converter
Gents,
Yesterday out of the blue several lights appeared on the dash display for no apparent reason. The parking and emissions warnings on the MID showed up, and the amber engine as well as the parking lights below the MID were on. The red parking light was also blinking when I was in motion but stopped when I was not. A huge thank you to pgeorg for his quick assurance that the car was likely to be ok for me to continue driving until I could get to the dealer today. I called the dealer and they set me up for an inspection first thing this morning. Well pgeorg and I thought it might be a battery issue, but in fact it was the front cat that was fouled. At first there was concern that it might be caused by bad gas or using 87 octane. Neither are true in this case, so they think it could have just malfunctioned somehow. Any ideas on what else could cause the situation? They ordered the part and I should be back in business next week. In the meantime I am driving a new TLX.
Oh and lest I forget to thank fsmith for his counsel too! I truly appreciate your guys on the board!
Yesterday out of the blue several lights appeared on the dash display for no apparent reason. The parking and emissions warnings on the MID showed up, and the amber engine as well as the parking lights below the MID were on. The red parking light was also blinking when I was in motion but stopped when I was not. A huge thank you to pgeorg for his quick assurance that the car was likely to be ok for me to continue driving until I could get to the dealer today. I called the dealer and they set me up for an inspection first thing this morning. Well pgeorg and I thought it might be a battery issue, but in fact it was the front cat that was fouled. At first there was concern that it might be caused by bad gas or using 87 octane. Neither are true in this case, so they think it could have just malfunctioned somehow. Any ideas on what else could cause the situation? They ordered the part and I should be back in business next week. In the meantime I am driving a new TLX.
Oh and lest I forget to thank fsmith for his counsel too! I truly appreciate your guys on the board!
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pgeorg (09-22-2016)
09-22-2016, 02:21 PM
#3
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
There are basically 3 categories of catalytic failure - thermal, contamination or physical damage.
Contamination is not limited to fuel (but most common in newer vehicles). Contamination may be introduced with additives, oil burning, silicates from gaskets and coolant, rich fuel burning or fouled plugs.
Thermal failure due to excessive heat introduced by exhaust leaks or rich fuel burning.
Physical may be a crushed cat from under-body damage resulting in back pressure build up.
Unless you damaged the exhaust, the most likely cause for a newer car is some form of contamination.
Contamination is not limited to fuel (but most common in newer vehicles). Contamination may be introduced with additives, oil burning, silicates from gaskets and coolant, rich fuel burning or fouled plugs.
Thermal failure due to excessive heat introduced by exhaust leaks or rich fuel burning.
Physical may be a crushed cat from under-body damage resulting in back pressure build up.
Unless you damaged the exhaust, the most likely cause for a newer car is some form of contamination.
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (09-22-2016)
09-22-2016, 02:23 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I'm a little OCD about things. I fill up at the same gas station and even use the same pump. Yes I know all of the pumps access the same tank, but that should give a little insight into my nonsense. I spoke to the owner of the gas station today and asked if there had been any water contamination or any other customers reporting issues of late. He was a little put off for my asking, but quickly realized I was just ruling out an issue. He said there were no issues with the gas, as it is a higher volume location so nothing is there long enough to become stagnant.
As far as idling, I don't. I turn it on, and away I go. If I had been driving it within 30-60 minutes previously, the EV mode is enough to get me backed out, and on my way down the street before the ICE kicks in.
As far as idling, I don't. I turn it on, and away I go. If I had been driving it within 30-60 minutes previously, the EV mode is enough to get me backed out, and on my way down the street before the ICE kicks in.
Last edited by RLX-Sport Hybrid; 09-22-2016 at 02:27 PM.
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09-22-2016, 02:25 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I did not ask about any physical damage, but I think the dealer would have stated it when they inspected the car this morning, so it is safe to rule that out in this case. BTW I m at about 35k on the OD right now.
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pgeorg (09-23-2016)
Trending Topics
09-22-2016, 02:56 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
100% under warranty
09-22-2016, 04:53 PM
#9
Senior Moderator
Interesting. I agree with justnspace. Must have been bad gas. Any more detail from the dealer about the cat?
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (09-22-2016)
09-22-2016, 05:55 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I don't have any additional information to provide at this point. However, I am very impressed with the mpg in the TLX. Same routes I normally drive and am averaging more than 29 mpg in semi-local driving.
09-22-2016, 07:32 PM
#11
Grandpa
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (09-22-2016)
09-23-2016, 07:20 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
I wonder if the idle stop on the SH has something to do with it, because the engine temp fall quickly when you are only running on EV.
And from your particular driving style (routes you take), you are on EV very often, and for longer periods of time......
I guess its better to be running rich than lean (detonation).....
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (09-23-2016)
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09-23-2016, 07:52 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
"I wonder why the 02 sensors didnt catch it"
I agree. That is why when RLX-Sport Hybrid told me it was the cat, i figured it was just a defective one.....
Very interested to find out if its either one connected to the headers, or the one under the floor.....
I agree. That is why when RLX-Sport Hybrid told me it was the cat, i figured it was just a defective one.....
Very interested to find out if its either one connected to the headers, or the one under the floor.....
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pgeorg (09-23-2016)
09-23-2016, 08:00 AM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
All good questions I will pose to the service advisor later this morning. Thanks guys.
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pgeorg (09-23-2016)
09-23-2016, 08:15 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
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09-23-2016, 08:17 AM
#20
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09-23-2016, 08:18 AM
#21
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09-23-2016, 08:22 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
09-23-2016, 08:23 AM
#23
removing it by itself gains 2-3hp and adds very little noise.
the better move would to replace the whole "Jpipe" with an aftermarket one with better bends for better air evacuation
also, the third cat is what makes the vehicle a "Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle" or an ULEV rating
FYI; Honda Civics are only rated as a LEV.
the better move would to replace the whole "Jpipe" with an aftermarket one with better bends for better air evacuation
also, the third cat is what makes the vehicle a "Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle" or an ULEV rating
FYI; Honda Civics are only rated as a LEV.
09-23-2016, 08:53 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
removing it by itself gains 2-3hp and adds very little noise.
the better move would to replace the whole "Jpipe" with an aftermarket one with better bends for better air evacuation
also, the third cat is what makes the vehicle a "Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle" or an ULEV rating
FYI; Honda Civics are only rated as a LEV.
the better move would to replace the whole "Jpipe" with an aftermarket one with better bends for better air evacuation
also, the third cat is what makes the vehicle a "Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle" or an ULEV rating
FYI; Honda Civics are only rated as a LEV.
09-23-2016, 09:00 AM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Service manager says it is the front cat by the radiator, and the computer did not indicate the O2 sensor as being bad. The engine is not running rich and is operating properly. He says it is just a failed part. I still think there is something that causes it to fail, but if it is truly just a bad part, then no other issues will surface later I assume.
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09-23-2016, 09:50 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
^^
Thank you for the update RLX-Sport Hybrid! At this point it is an isolated incident, so we should treat it as a bad part.
Lets hope this is the last we hear of this :-)
Thank you for the update RLX-Sport Hybrid! At this point it is an isolated incident, so we should treat it as a bad part.
Lets hope this is the last we hear of this :-)
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RLX-Sport Hybrid (09-23-2016)
09-23-2016, 04:53 PM
#28
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Repair is complete. The front cat and the sensors were replaced. Codes were cleared. The car is back good as new. What a huge difference between it and the TLX.
10-29-2016, 07:46 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Well today the same lights came on the dash as before. I am dropping the car off at the dealer on Tuesday morning to figure out what happened now. This will be round two.
10-29-2016, 07:51 PM
#30
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I wonder how much this might have to do with you fuel mileage question in the other thread.
10-29-2016, 07:52 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
I can't believe that's another cat, or O2 sensor....
It has to be something else......
It has to be something else......
10-29-2016, 07:53 PM
#32
Burning Brakes
10-29-2016, 07:59 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
You are probably right guys. My mpg has dropped to 24.7 for this tank with about 185 miles driven. Typically I see 30-31 mpg on the same routes, so this is a marked difference. My service manager thought it was peculiar so a factory rep will look at the car when it gets there on Tuesday. Seems aggressive to do that before even seeing the car. Don't you think? Or do they know something I don't.
10-29-2016, 08:25 PM
#34
Burning Brakes
^^
I think it just happened that the factory rep is there, so i am sure he will want to take a look at it.
Also, having another cat or O2 sensor failure, this close together is extremely unlikely.........unless they diagnosed it incorrectly the first time.....
Lets wait and see what they say....
I think it just happened that the factory rep is there, so i am sure he will want to take a look at it.
Also, having another cat or O2 sensor failure, this close together is extremely unlikely.........unless they diagnosed it incorrectly the first time.....
Lets wait and see what they say....
10-29-2016, 08:49 PM
#35
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Does seem very peculiar. I'm not worried, but a little irritated. You are probably right about the rep. The service manager said that if the check engine light was flashing, that was a critical thing to note and the car should be shut off immediately. That is not the case here.
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pgeorg (10-29-2016)
10-30-2016, 02:02 PM
#36
Torch & Pitchfork Posse
again, bad fuel. It would also explain the drop in mileage.
I know you said the fuel station manager was certain his fuel was good and you use that station almost exclusively And I am not saying he is hiding anything. But it is very possible there is damage to the underground tank and / or delivery system to the pump, causing contamination. It may not be human error (intentional or unintentional) but my geologist buddy's sole purpose is examining fuel stations in Florida. He says the instances of contamination are alarming, yet unchecked, mostly due to it being very difficult to prove bad gas. It also can be an intermittent situation if the contamination source is not in the delivered fuel or the storage tank, but introduced in the pumping components. I am told the usual means to expose and mitigate a damaged fuel storage system is revealed by environmental inspections and geologists.
I know it is a long shot, but so is two damaged cats in such a short time.
I know you said the fuel station manager was certain his fuel was good and you use that station almost exclusively And I am not saying he is hiding anything. But it is very possible there is damage to the underground tank and / or delivery system to the pump, causing contamination. It may not be human error (intentional or unintentional) but my geologist buddy's sole purpose is examining fuel stations in Florida. He says the instances of contamination are alarming, yet unchecked, mostly due to it being very difficult to prove bad gas. It also can be an intermittent situation if the contamination source is not in the delivered fuel or the storage tank, but introduced in the pumping components. I am told the usual means to expose and mitigate a damaged fuel storage system is revealed by environmental inspections and geologists.
I know it is a long shot, but so is two damaged cats in such a short time.
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10-30-2016, 08:31 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
The bad gas idea is definitely in play. Although I have no issues with my MDX that I fuel up at the same station, including today. We will see on Tuesday on the status.
10-31-2016, 08:02 PM
#38
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Ok now I am puzzled. The lights on the dash all went out and everything looks normal. Do I still go the dealer tomorrow morning as scheduled anyway?
10-31-2016, 08:08 PM
#39
Burning Brakes
IMHO Yes! Make sure the factory rep takes a look at it. It could be some kind of sensor that is causing this.....
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fsmith (11-01-2016)
10-31-2016, 08:09 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter