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Gents, I now know what Wernher von Braun intended way back when regarding creating thrust with an engine. WOW! What a marvelous piece of engineering! Meticulous attention to detail inside and out, magnificent body controls and steering, and then there are the brakes. Did I mention that little detail of 605 hp and 553 ft/lbs of tq? Just endless levels of performance, and impossible to drive under 100mph. It is as if wind resistance and mass do not exist in that car. It just leaps 20-30 mph at a time, from any speed. I have never seen a speedometer climb that fast or be planted in my seat like that before. Now lets be honest, $125,000 for the car is steep, but that is simply super car performance that would cost $50,000 to $100,000 if it were a Lambo or Ferrari, and you can seat 4 very wealthy people in extreme comfort at the same time you are scaring the crap out of them. The German's got this one dead on.
Now how does this relate to being on our forum you might ask? Well here is how. Taking price into consideration, the RLX Sport Hybrid in my estimation is about 70% of the performance (sans brakes), 50% of the attention to detail and quality, 100% of interior space, 75% on interior comfort, for 50% or less of the cost. To me the value prop still holds true. If one can get more than 50% of the creature comforts and performance, but pay 50% or less, that works for me. I hope my math example makes sense. When I compare the Audi S8 to my business partner's MB S550, the Audi takes the cake all day long, depending on your expectations. It is a very subjective thing I am saying here, but I really enjoy my drive time in the SH, and if I were to own the Audi S8, I would need my attorney to live at the court house as I would be in jail before I could get home.
Last edited by RLX-Sport Hybrid; 12-02-2016 at 09:07 AM.
I despise the feeling of getting ripped off. After seeing your numbers, you have reaffirmed that 'yes, somebody somewhere is getting rimmed... but not us... we've made a great choice'
I despise the feeling of getting ripped off. After seeing your numbers, you have reaffirmed that 'yes, somebody somewhere is getting rimmed... but not us... we've made a great choice'
psheu, I appreciate your thought, but how about this take: Maybe for those in a position to purchase such cars, they provide a purpose for them that spending several thousand dollars per month for an automobile serves. For my business partner, he just enjoys that kind of stately luxury and is willing to pay for it. I on the other hand feel differently, even though we are in the same economic position. It is hard for me to appreciate how a difference of a couple of hundred dollars per month can mean yes to one model and no to another for a given buyer. If things are that close financially, then neither car should be purchased, but yet may people do that kind of thing. Just my 2 cents. However, when looking at the value proposition, the RLX-SH presents a very strong argument relative to the extreme luxury offerings at 2X or 3X the price. When I look at the "what do I get for my dollar" ratio relative to the actual achievable experience one can have without going to jail, the differential above a certain point is large, but only for fractions of a second in which you can enjoy that difference. Does that make any sense? I'm not sure I am getting my point across the way I want to.
psheu, I appreciate your thought, but how about this take: Maybe for those in a position to purchase such cars, they provide a purpose for them that spending several thousand dollars per month for an automobile serves. For my business partner, he just enjoys that kind of stately luxury and is willing to pay for it. I on the other hand feel a differently, even though we are in the same economic position. It is hard for me to appreciate how a difference of a couple of hundred dollars per month can mean yes to one model and a no to another for a given buyer. If things are that close financially, then neither car should be purchased, but yet may people do that kind of thing. Just my 2 cents. However, when looking at the value proposition, the RLX-SH presents a very strong argument relative to the extreme luxury offerings at 2X or 3X the price. When I look at the "what do I get for my dollar" ratio relative to the actual achievable experience one can have without going to jail, the differential above a certain point is large, but only for fractions of a second in which you can enjoy that difference. Does that make any sense? I'm not sure I am getting my point across the way I want to.
Put succinctly, "Different strokes for different folks"?
Would love to hear how the S8 Plus compares with the Tesla Model S P100D. Both are around $120k. I'd imagine the S8 is more luxurious and has a better ride, while the P100D initial thrust is truly amazing.
I test drove the P85D and reviewed it for the forum. It was a rocket too, but for the same money I would choose the Audi S8 all day long over it. The exhaust sound alone is intoxicating with the burbles and muted pops both on the acceleration and deceleration portions. It's like a hairy chest kind of thing in the Audi. The Tesla is just thrust. The Audi is thrust, audible engine music, and just a bad ass luxurious ride. I think 0-60 in the low 3's is likely conservative. No tire spin, just four big, fat tires clawing for traction and 60,80,100 mph is gone before the end of the block. Should be illegal, but I am glad it isn't. Like I said, the RLX-SH is about 70% of the experience for half the price. If the SH could have more of a rear bias to the throttle delivery, I would guess both cars would be close up to about 30 mph, then it would be over from there. The traction limitation on the front end of the RLX-SH makes a difference. That is NOT present in the S8. It is just unadulterated traction with ferocious thrust available.
Wow, you think the SH can be that close up to 30mph? Good to know! On the other hand, it would be nice if the RLX has a turbocharged V6 with its SH system for little bit more money. 90% of S8 experience for 60% of the price or something.
I used to also be a huge dogmatic champion of "NEVER buy new!" But although I wouldn't likely consider such a purchase myself, even if I were in a feasible financial situation, I read someone's thoughts on luxury purchases and I think it is spot on:
"A high-end luxury car is so highly discretionary (i.e. unnecessary) that it should not just be affordable, but easily affordable. In my mind a $100,000+ car becomes a reasonable purchase if there is virtually no opportunity cost in buying it. If the difference in paying for a Camry XLE and an S550 has absolutely no effect on your other expenditures, then it's a reasonable purchase.
Like with other luxury goods, I think far too many people look at their budget and think "I can pay for this and still have money left over, therefore I can afford it."
So if one were to be in a position to afford a 100k+ luxury good...and I mean TRULY be able to afford it (as in it wouldn't seriously affect other aspects of their life and they need to cut back on no other expense to afford that item) then I think you can do whatever as you please.
While I think it is no surprise that such a level of car is truly amazing as noted by OP I wonder how the competitors would fare: LS460, S63 AMG (or equivalent), top end 7-series.
In addition to TRUE affordability, one must consider the perception that buying a very high-end vehicle brings with it. While some buyers covet the adoration and envy such a purchase brings, the other potential reaction is contempt and bitterness. For example, if you are a business owner and buy a very high-end vehicle, your employees might just wonder why they aren't getting a big raise in pay if the company is so obviously prospering. If you are in a retail business, are your employees just a bit more likely to help themselves to product or cash if they think the boss is "rolling in dough"??
Don't get me wrong...we work hard for our money and we need to reward ourselves for that hard work with nice things that we can truly afford. What I'm saying is that those nice things sometimes can define us in the eyes of others and we should keep that in mind.
In my opinion, the RLX Sport Hybrid may very well be the nicest car that doesn't seem to broadcast prosperity or affluence. That very quality may be the cause of it's slow sales.
I've been treated like shit since I bought my Cadillac. So I know for a fact you're onto something there.
Interesting perspective on being able to afford something, Nist. Honestly...I'm getting used to a car payment...but I can't lie...I miss the days where I didn't have one. Now...does the car give me pleasure? Sure...does it give me no car payment to a car payment over what I had before...that's debatable which is probably why I've considered selling it and buying something cash again.
To me, there's something almost socially irresponsible about cars like the S8.
First off, they're just a little...well...obvious is the word, I guess. They just stand out a little. A little too much.
A little too much noise, a little too much performance, a little too much money.
Just a little too grand for me. It's hard to explain logically.
And an EPA overall MPG of 18? In 2016? I don't know how I'd be able to face people.
Equipped the way that you'd have to equip it to equal the Advance version of our cars, you're looking at 131.5. With a very deep discount, you're still well over 120.
But having said that, for some odd reason, I find the LS460 more palatable. The MSRP is still going to cross 120 is you equip it like the Advance Package, and the MPG still sucks.
But it's less obvious. More invisible. While also being so cleverly put together and so clearly of a very high quality manufacture that I am comfortable saying you'd have to spend a quarter million to find a car better put together...and even then it wouldn't be as reliable, by far.
I drive a lot. Even if I'm driving to the point I'd take the helicopter or the train the rest of the way, it's still over 100 miles/day total.
So I want a car that I can live with for extended periods. I don't want to pretend I don't see the attraction of the S8, but it's just a little too much and would draw just a little too much attention.
Even with the Legend, there's a slight stigma attached to driving a car built in Saiyama...among a certain crowd who have to get along with even bigger crowds. But the Legend makes up for that with a lifetime average of 31.5 mpg or so, and you can make a viable argument for being a part of the hybrid performance experiment. LOL....
A big plus for Audi is how very reliable they've become (although the "S" models are exempt from reliability standards). That's hard to combat. Lexus can certainly combat it, but Acura has lost its footing as far as reliability goes.
Same with Mercedes. Have you looked at the complaints surrounding all of the current iteration of the S550? Oh, my goodness. It's awful. Much worse than Honda. (By the way, the "RLX" at Consumer Reports, which covers both KC1 and KC2 models, is now rated Above Average for predicted reliability. I think that's the only Acura that's above average.)
There's two things I'm watching for a predicted 2018 or 2019 purchase:
Cadillac: Are they going to be able to get better with reliability? The CT6 looks like a good gamble for them, but are they going to be able to extend the mentality to the XTS replacement, and whatever comes after that?
Acura: So what's after the 5G Legend? My two complaints would be a clearly hinky infotainment and dual screen interface that I think we'd all agree needed improvement, and the suspension's overall performance, steady state.
I don't want to start any fights about the suspension, necessarily.
It's okay. It's just not great, and with both the KC1 and KC2, there's a sort of unsettled feeling when there's no pressure on the car's handling.
Let's see what they do in 2018. Maybe another kind of RLX or Legend is in the future.
This stream of consciousness post has been brought to you by Kellogg's of Battle Creek. You know, since they're not spending money at Breitbart and such.
: runs for cover :
Last edited by George Knighton; 12-03-2016 at 08:03 AM.
Have you driven the 2016 SH with the revised suspension, George.
I would live to get your take on it, because I think they have softened it a bit too much.....especially when it comes to body roll......
I like how compliant the 2016 suspension is on bad roads, but I don't like the initial body roll......but after that it settles nicely....
I've never even seen a 2016 KC2!! :-)
As far as high pressure handling goes, I don't have any particular complaints about my car. Fast switchbacks are a problem, but I think it's more the size of the car and not really the suspension design.
You also have to appreciate how the car can take road vagaries, bumps and gaters without going off the line you've chosen.
What I'll notice every once in a while is that the car just doesn't seem to be settled at moderate speeds in a straight line.
You get used to it, as someone who otherwise appreciates the vehicle. I don't think people like Consumer Reports would like it, though.
I have a slight suspicion, that it might be because of the OEM tires......
That's a glaring error for a finalization committee to make, though, don't you think.
They have enough buying power for a range of tyres to be produced for a specific vehicle. That's why I'll shop for OEM instead of going to Tire Rack for what is supposedly the same tyre.
Sometimes the exact same badges at Tire Rack are not the exact same tyre, insofar as OEM American Honda tyres go!
With that kind of power, it's hard to believe that they would configure a compound that'd make people uncomfortable. They'd rather work on a compound that made people feel more secure.
I don't want to exaggerate what I'm talking about, either. It's something that everybody would be able to adapt to.
But I've perused some reviews since I last posted, and what I'm saying has been mentioned by people more knowledgeable than I am.
Do we have hope for the soon to be released Lincoln Continental Black Label Edition?
Or do we think it'll be plagued with typical recent Ford reliability issues?
The 4.0T is pretty much my favorite engine at this point. Even stock it has gobs of torque everywhere. I've had the chance to drive a few tuned versions and even install APR cast downpipes, mate them to Akrapovic, AWE and Milltek exhausts and drive the setup and oh my goodness does it move.
12-02-2016, 09:04 AM
