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Old 04-07-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by g37guy01 View Post
It's not like the BMW has a hypnotic quality on people. IMO what the perception is about is a car company that delivers the goods. (You of course have to decide if what the car company is delivering is what you are looking for in a car)

Having driven both a 750 and 460. I prefer the 750. The 550 is so intoxicating, the 535 is pretty darn good also.

As far as the mission the 335 is at the top of heap, imo. While I chose the the G this time around, it has some nuances the 335 does not exhibit and at times although I'm happy with the G, I do have buyers remorse on occasion. I do think BMW delivers the goods in such a way, it draws people into the showroom to get them to drive the car. The car closes the deal.

So I disagree about what Gohawks is saying. When people put themselves into a BMW, there is something about that vehicle that sells itself. (Assuming the aforementioned idiot actually test drove the thing before he signed the lease agreement) I do agree there seems to be some common knowledge amongst car buyers that BMW makes "nice" cars. (Also Lexus)
We must have crossed posted and I missed this.

I agree with everything you said. You can't deny the performance aspect of BMWs if you have driven them. I will use our X5 as an example, that is a damn fun car to drive. We needed a replacement for our 2004 Toyota Landcruiser. The X5 was never on our radar and I thought we would end up with an MDX. My wife didn't like the interior of the MDX and to be honest she liked the X5 because of the particular color combination and features and looks of the particular X5 we bought. The performance aspect of it was the bonus. I have to say that it is a damn fun vehicle to drive which is especially notable that it is an SUV (or Sports Activity Vehicle as BMW calls it). It is more gratifying than many sports sedans I have driven.

Now is it more expensive than an MDX? Yep. Is it going to be as reliable as an MDX? Probably not. Is it going to be more expensive to maintain than an MDX? Most likely once the free maintenance expires at 50K miles and my warranty expires at 100K miles (I bought it as a CPO), but so far so good.

Is it more fun to drive than an MDX? You betcha!

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Old 04-07-2013, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
I understand what you are saying, but there is absolutely NO cross pollinating of FIAT and Ferrari product. The relationship is in ownership only. There is nothing shared.

There is Honda DNA all over Acura products and the engineering trickles down (sometimes up), and yes with Lexus the references are different (your ownership comment), but there is still Toyota DNA in Lexus products (even though the masses don't always know that.
You are right and I agree on both points.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Thrillington View Post
And I wouldn't waste my time hanging out on the BMW boards whining about they didn't make a car for me.
I agree. These threads are turning into an echo chamber. The same few people reiterating the same points and their disappointment over the RLX repeatedly.

I've seen the RLX and had the chance to test out all the electronics. I didn't want to drive it b/c I need an AWD car and P-AWS doesn't matter to me. It's a very nice car with great technology and seems like it could be a good replacement for my 06 RL, once AWD is available. Apparently it's not for everyone....and they're going to let us know that ad nauseum.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dwboston View Post
I agree. These threads are turning into an echo chamber. The same few people reiterating the same points and their disappointment over the RLX repeatedly.

Apparently it's not for everyone....and they're going to let us know that ad nauseum.
I think most of these "people" genuinely what Acura and the RLX to be successful. Lets face it, the last couple generations have been pretty lack luster. Acura is one of my favorite car brands. What's disappointing is that Acura seemingly continues to ignore what others are delivering to this segment while experiencing more success than Acura. With this latest version, if it is priced at $70K, there is no value component anymore. Personally, I hope they sell a ton and I'd like to see the hybrid SHAWD in the MDX soon. If they do that, I will probably buy another one.

For all of you that say, RWD, HP, brand or whatever else doesn't matter and the others that say they do, how about a little survey?

I don't mean to be offend anyone with these questions, but here goes:

1. Anyone that has bought or owned a flagship luxury sports sedan (Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8, jaguar XJ, Lexus LS460, Porsche Panamera, etc). Would you seriously consider replacing your ride with a RLX?

2. Those that say all the stuff doesn't matter, brand, HP, perception, or whatever, and love the new RLX how many have bought (not just driven) a flagship luxury sports sedan before?

It would be interesting to see if the RLX inspires more first time adopters in the segment (those in question 2) or crossover buyers of existing luxury sedans ( those in question 1)
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by noobie View Post
I think most of these "people" genuinely what Acura and the RLX to be successful. Lets face it, the last couple generations have been pretty lack luster. Acura is one of my favorite car brands. What's disappointing is that Acura seemingly continues to ignore what others are delivering to this segment while experiencing more success than Acura. With this latest version, if it is priced at $70K, there is no value component anymore. Personally, I hope they sell a ton and I'd like to see the hybrid SHAWD in the MDX soon. If they do that, I will probably buy another one.

For all of you that say, RWD, HP, brand or whatever else doesn't matter and the others that say they do, how about a little survey?

I don't mean to be offend anyone with these questions, but here goes:

1. Anyone that has bought or owned a flagship luxury sports sedan (Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8, jaguar XJ, Lexus LS460, Porsche Panamera, etc). Would you seriously consider replacing your ride with a RLX?

2. Those that say all the stuff doesn't matter, brand, HP, perception, or whatever, and love the new RLX how many have bought (not just driven) a flagship luxury sports sedan before?

It would be interesting to see if the RLX inspires more first time adopters in the segment (those in question 2) or crossover buyers of existing luxury sedans ( those in question 1)
Agree with everything you said!
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Old 04-07-2013, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Thrillington View Post
And I wouldn't waste my time hanging out on the BMW boards whining about they didn't make a car for me.
Originally Posted by dwboston View Post
I agree. These threads are turning into an echo chamber. The same few people reiterating the same points and their disappointment over the RLX repeatedly
Yes, it seems like threads have a 'one page limit' of constructive conversation before the echos begin. LOL.

IMO, part of the difficulty is that there is a tendency to distill opinions into 'black and white' statements where there is only grey. For example, someone might say "RLX sucks, Acura has lost it" How do you discuss such a declarative statement? It's only arguing from there on.

Definition of terms is another difficulty. For example, take discussions of 'enthusiasts' Is an 'enthusiast' someone who:
  1. loves cars, reads all the mags, but only buys a Civic
  2. adds springs, sway bars, body kits and slams it within in inch of it's life but never races
  3. keeps the car totally stock so he can autocross in the "A Stock" SCCA class so he'll never 'mod' it
  4. buys a high end M3 but gets an automatic and doesn't know FWD from RWD
  5. buys any manual because, that's what drivers, DRIVE even if it's not a high end sports car but it's the best manual he can afford

A similar list could be made for other points here: Flagship, Value, Reliability. The are all variables that rely on the owners POV for context. My ILX may be noisy to some, but it's quiet compared to our old S2000.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:14 PM
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At the risk of sounding like an echo (apologies to dwboston ), you are right on point, noobie.

Originally Posted by noobie View Post
I think most of these "people" genuinely what Acura and the RLX to be successful. Lets face it, the last couple generations have been pretty lack luster. Acura is one of my favorite car brands. What's disappointing is that Acura seemingly continues to ignore what others are delivering to this segment while experiencing more success than Acura. With this latest version, if it is priced at $70K, there is no value component anymore. Personally, I hope they sell a ton and I'd like to see the hybrid SHAWD in the MDX soon. If they do that, I will probably buy another one.

For all of you that say, RWD, HP, brand or whatever else doesn't matter and the others that say they do, how about a little survey?

I don't mean to be offend anyone with these questions, but here goes:

1. Anyone that has bought or owned a flagship luxury sports sedan (Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8, jaguar XJ, Lexus LS460, Porsche Panamera, etc). Would you seriously consider replacing your ride with a RLX?

2. Those that say all the stuff doesn't matter, brand, HP, perception, or whatever, and love the new RLX how many have bought (not just driven) a flagship luxury sports sedan before?

It would be interesting to see if the RLX inspires more first time adopters in the segment (those in question 2) or crossover buyers of existing luxury sedans ( those in question 1)
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Yes, it seems like threads have a 'one page limit' of constructive conversation before the echos begin. LOL.

IMO, part of the difficulty is that there is a tendency to distill opinions into 'black and white' statements where there is only grey. For example, someone might say "RLX sucks, Acura has lost it" How do you discuss such a declarative statement? It's only arguing from there on.

Definition of terms is another difficulty. For example, take discussions of 'enthusiasts' Is an 'enthusiast' someone who:
  1. loves cars, reads all the mags, but only buys a Civic
  2. adds springs, sway bars, body kits and slams it within in inch of it's life but never races
  3. keeps the car totally stock so he can autocross in the "A Stock" SCCA class so he'll never 'mod' it
  4. buys a high end M3 but gets an automatic and doesn't know FWD from RWD
  5. buys any manual because, that's what drivers, DRIVE even if it's not a high end sports car but it's the best manual he can afford

A similar list could be made for other points here: Flagship, Value, Reliability. The are all variables that rely on the owners POV for context. My ILX may be noisy to some, but it's quiet compared to our old S2000.
Well said Colin/DWboston/Thrillington!!

Automotive forums are a bit like sports forums - eg Yankees vs Red Sox, Packers vs Bears, Heat vs Lakers, Leafs vs Canadiens. There is no shortage of absolute opinions on subjects with no right answer and no shortage of conflict. Fortunately, in amongst all of the Coke vs Pepsi style nattering is some really good information for someone like me who is actually interested in researching/purchasing an Acura vehicle.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:08 AM
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What do you think April sales will be?

Anyone care to guess what April sales of the RLX will be? How about a friendly little pool to see who comes closet?

I'll guess 1,276 (I'll go out on a limb and be positive!)
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:21 AM
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Way too high IMO I am going to guess around 800 max maybe less. I would be impressed if they break 1,000. I don't see a lot in inventory and what I see is usually still sitting on the dealer lots. Problem is we don't how good supply is yet.
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by noobie View Post
Anyone care to guess what April sales of the RLX will be? How about a friendly little pool to see who comes closet?

I'll guess 1,276 (I'll go out on a limb and be positive!)
Sale numbers will be meaningless until the dealers have the supply to meet the demand. If a dealer has 2 and neither is Advance then inventory would be the culprit of a reduction in sales because, I for one, would only buy Advance. If a dealer has invested a million dollars in high end inventory then he will want a return fairly soon and will be a lot more eager to "make a deal". My dealer did say that he has a lot more coming in the near future, in fact, he showed me the colors but none of them were pommegranite which would be my choice. Dealers with only 2 cars will let you drive one and buy the other one at a markup until they have more to sell.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:02 PM
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Cool Inventory

My local dealerships all have 5 now instead of 2 (most of them tech packages but 1 with just navi) & Cars.com now reports 700 nationwide. No black/black advance in my area tho (the 1 combo I would consider) but they do have a Gilded Pewter Metallic that I am curious to see (not buy).

Last edited by TSX69; 04-11-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:47 PM
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^^my dealer now has 10 in stock. 4 navi, 3 tech, 1 krell, 2 advance
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JM2010 SH-AWD View Post
^^ I made a point of doing that at our auto show in January. I have to agree, especially with the Audi. Nothing special in the interiors at all (except the price). They used to be very nice, but the decontenting is obvious. BMW interiors have never been special, in my opinion. They look like an American luxo cruiser from the late 70s.
I disagree. The lower end Audi's aren't anything special but the higher ends definitely are and IMO are top of the class.

I sat in many cars at the local car show and to me the best interiors by far were the Audi A7 and the Porsche Panamera.

We checked out the new MDX (h my wife currently drives one) and we're disappointed by the cost cutting so brazenly evident in the materials.

And you're right about BMW interiors they've never been extremely plush but they've always been function over form and I kinda like that (I must admit I love the 1M coupe's interior).
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by noobie View Post



1. Anyone that has bought or owned a flagship luxury sports sedan (Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8, jaguar XJ, Lexus LS460, Porsche Panamera, etc). Would you seriously consider replacing your ride with a RLX?

I don't think that's a fair question simply because the RLX isn't aiming at that end of the market. A flagship means different things to different companies and Acura is not targeting those cars.

IMO for that question and the subsequent answers to have merit you need to focus on the segment where Acura wants to compete and that's the midsize (5, GS, A6, CTS, XF) market.



2. Those that say all the stuff doesn't matter, brand, HP, perception, or whatever, and love the new RLX how many have bought (not just driven) a flagship luxury sports sedan before?
Personally, the RLX is not my cup of tea. I'd gladly pay more for an A7 than the 60k that a decked out non AWD RLX would cost.

IMO, Acura can set this straight by either hiring a new design head or by letting design do their job without interference form the suits and bean counters.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dwboston View Post
The same few people reiterating the same points and their disappointment over the RLX repeatedly.
Being that this is an Acura forum I'd say most here would like to see the company do well.

Perhaps Acura should listen to the criticisms. It might help them in the future.

I realize all this is moot until we see what type of sales the car will garner but my money is on the under.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBigPill View Post
Perhaps Acura should listen to the criticisms. It might help them in the future.
Or perhaps not. Listening too much could result in bland cars designed by "committee" where the entire internet is the board room. One might argue that the current proliferation of trims within models hasn't increased sales nor resulted in any 'happier' customers than before when you had to take your '04 TL either with or without Navi as the only choices or your '05 RL in only one trim.

Last edited by Colin; 04-14-2013 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Or perhaps not. Listening too much could result in bland cars designed by "committee" ...
That's definitely a possibility but the present cars IMO are pretty bland. I'm not looking for Acura to crowd source a car but to take valid criticism to heart.

I don't know the dynamics within Acura corporate but I'd be surprised that the current cars where the design studios best effort and perplexed if the designers themselves considered this to be their best work. To me, and again this is just my opinion, the cars look like a room full of executives all had a say on what the car should be or they just said take an Accord and make it worth 60k.

Certain companies have built up goodwill. With all the bumbling, hand wringing and missteps that were endemic to Blackberry for the past few years customers still returned when they finally released a competitive product.

IMO Acura is a design away from that moment. They have credibility. They're built well. They have good tech. Put a design out there that stoles peoples passions and the customers will come.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:56 PM
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^^ I agree....a good design with passion and excitement will bring back many buyers to the brand as they know they are GREAT cars, just uninspiring at the moment. I can live without some tech provide I get excited about the car....As much as I don't like the interior design of the Audi S3 (2015 model), their exterior design almost elicit a physical reaction *lol*
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:19 PM
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I agree, Acura needs to take a leap of faith and change their exterior design direction (their interiors are top notch). A good start might be losing the grill shield/power plenum. Yes, the shield makes every Acura instantly recognizable as being an Acura, but not in a good way. I equate it to a peanut butter producer putting broccoli in their peanut butter to differentiate themselves from the other peanut butters.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by hondamore View Post
I equate it to a peanut butter producer putting broccoli in their peanut butter to differentiate themselves from the other peanut butters.
That made me laugh!! So true!!
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by hondamore View Post
I agree, Acura needs to take a leap of faith and change their exterior design direction (their interiors are top notch). A good start might be losing the grill shield/power plenum. Yes, the shield makes every Acura instantly recognizable as being an Acura, but not in a good way. I equate it to a peanut butter producer putting broccoli in their peanut butter to differentiate themselves from the other peanut butters.
IMO, in the current iteration the grill is fine. Heck, it's been already been 5-6 years with this motif. Like 20% of the brands existence on the market. For as long as I've been with the brand, people have complained about the styling. (Again) IMO, listening to this criticism was what led to the '09 TL.

Acura, go back to making (somewhat) boring cars, ignore the comments. Price and equip them right and we'll be selling 200K easy.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBigPill View Post
That's definitely a possibility but the present cars IMO are pretty bland. I'm not looking for Acura to crowd source a car but to take valid criticism to heart.

I don't know the dynamics within Acura corporate but I'd be surprised that the current cars where the design studios best effort and perplexed if the designers themselves considered this to be their best work. To me, and again this is just my opinion, the cars look like a room full of executives all had a say on what the car should be or they just said take an Accord and make it worth 60k.

Certain companies have built up goodwill. With all the bumbling, hand wringing and missteps that were endemic to Blackberry for the past few years customers still returned when they finally released a competitive product.

IMO Acura is a design away from that moment. They have credibility. They're built well. They have good tech. Put a design out there that stoles peoples passions and the customers will come.
You're absolutely right. Acura/Honda has great engineers, but what they need is some guys in the studio who have passion for beautiful cars. Hire some Italian designers, heck even some domestic designers. Look at the new Lincoln MKZ, it may not be comparable to Acura from an engineering perspective, but I think that car is beautiful and it makes a statement. The Audis are beautiful. Even GM let the designers at Cadillac let them design something like the CTS coupe.

Again, I am not saying that those are better cars, they are just more daring from a design perspective. Hire some true car guys to work with the gear head engineers.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
IMO, in the current iteration the grill is fine. Heck, it's been already been 5-6 years with this motif. Like 20% of the brands existence on the market. For as long as I've been with the brand, people have complained about the styling. (Again) IMO, listening to this criticism was what led to the '09 TL.

.
Because it looked like they had a bunch of tech heads design a car that reminded them of the Transformer TV shows they watched growing up. It was a technical versus a passionate design statement.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:15 PM
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I like the RLX's grill much better than the 2009-2011 TL's. And I actually like the RLX's grill better than what Lexus is cooking up nowadays.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90 View Post
I like the RLX's grill much better than the 2009-2011 TL's. And I actually like the RLX's grill better than what Lexus is cooking up nowadays.
The toned down shield is better.

I might be in the minority, but I like the Lexus spindle (a.k.a. the Predator) grille.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:29 AM
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^^ Or in Germany, the "Diablo Grill."
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Old 04-15-2013, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
The toned down shield is better.

I might be in the minority, but I like the Lexus spindle (a.k.a. the Predator) grille.
I like it too.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by TheBigPill View Post
1. Anyone that has bought or owned a flagship luxury sports sedan (Mercedes S, BMW 7, Audi A8, jaguar XJ, Lexus LS460, Porsche Panamera, etc). Would you seriously consider replacing your ride with a RLX?

I don't think that's a fair question simply because the RLX isn't aiming at that end of the market. A flagship means different things to different companies and Acura is not targeting those cars.

IMO for that question and the subsequent answers to have merit you need to focus on the segment where Acura wants to compete and that's the midsize (5, GS, A6, CTS, XF) market.

Personally, the RLX is not my cup of tea. I'd gladly pay more for an A7 than the 60k that a decked out non AWD RLX would cost.

Yes I would agree that the RLX is more geared for the GS, E, 5, A6 buyers. However, the price of a loaded SHAWD version was speculated being around the $70K, which is well above a very well appointed versions of the benchmark class. Anyone willing to spend $70K is going to look hard at Lexus LS460 and A7s and A8s. S550s and & series may be a bit of a stretch. An AWD Jag XJ can also be had for mid 70s.

It was really more about what people want in a luxury sport sedan. There are many in this thread that say RWD/AWD, V8 power and sexy styling don't matter in a flagship. PAWS is just as good, V6, and so on and so on. I say it does and from personal experience, I would not trade my flagship sedan for the RLX, even if they gave me $20K back or whatever. Acura did not build anything that would stir the emotions of this crowd.

That means they need to to target move up TL drivers or GS, E, A6 cross shoppers, and not only have they not given these buyers RWD/AWD, passion inducing style, but now have removed value with the ridiculous high relative price.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GoHawks View Post
The toned down shield is better.

I might be in the minority, but I like the Lexus spindle (a.k.a. the Predator) grille.
I like it too, but I find some colors in the f Sport a bit too much.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:25 PM
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What if the RLX hybrid costs the same as the Lexus GS hybrid?
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90 View Post
What if the RLX hybrid costs the same as the Lexus GS hybrid?
It will sell as many of them as Lexus does
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Old 04-15-2013, 08:02 PM
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^^^
Yup I rarely see one on a dealer inventory same with M35h, I think they are a bit of a gimmick. I think M35h was way to vet the tech and now they will offer it on the Q50 Hybrid, but still think few will take it.
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:10 PM
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I don't think hybrid is a gimmick if you want more horsepower out of the Lexus GS or Acura RLX.
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Old 04-16-2013, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jhr3uva90 View Post
I don't think hybrid is a gimmick if you want more horsepower out of the Lexus GS or Acura RLX.
True, but I think the take rate on those either way is low. Most people the 330 of an M or the 310 of a RLX is more than enough. The thing that is nice about hybrids is the immediate torque that is available.
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Old 04-16-2013, 07:33 AM
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Lightbulb Hybrid

The sales of the GS & M hybrid are ~50/month (that is ~3% of GS sales last month) if that tells you anything about the market. At ~$70k I doubt that the RLX will sell many.

Much like the Power Plenum, I like the spindle grill on some vehicles, like the GS, on the others ... not so much.

2 of my local dealers still have all 5 RLXs but 1 (which is in the more affluent town) has sold 3 of their 5 in the past week or so.
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by noobie View Post
I like it too, but I find some colors in the f Sport a bit too much.

I really like the new IS line up also, beautiful car IMHO.
Here's a link to the new 2014 model, Acura has a lot of catching up to do.
This is what I was hoping for with the new RLX, a sporty design that inspires some passion.
Never a big Lexus fan until now...

Last edited by Sonor Kid 2; 04-18-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonor Kid 2 View Post
I really like the new IS line up also, beautiful car IMHO.
Here's a link to the new 2014 model, Acura has a lot of catching up to do.
This is what I was hoping for with the new RLX, a sporty design that inspires some passion.
Never a big Lexus fan until now...
I too think the IS is pretty sharp.
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:05 PM
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I've been monitoring inventory at a couple dealers in my area. Closest Dealer had the 2 demos and then got 2 more a few days after the go on sale date (March 15)
In a few days inventory was back down to 2.
Another Dealer that seemed to have the most right after 3/15 had 7. Few days and down to 5.

Both Dealers are still on that inventory count of 2 and 5 a month later.

There are more than 10 dealers in my area, but I've only closely monitored these 2. That said, random checks at the others don't show dwindling inventory and it does not seem that they got more arrivals yet
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Old 04-18-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by getakey View Post
I've been monitoring inventory at a couple dealers in my area. Closest Dealer had the 2 demos and then got 2 more a few days after the go on sale date (March 15)
In a few days inventory was back down to 2.
Another Dealer that seemed to have the most right after 3/15 had 7. Few days and down to 5.

Both Dealers are still on that inventory count of 2 and 5 a month later.

There are more than 10 dealers in my area, but I've only closely monitored these 2. That said, random checks at the others don't show dwindling inventory and it does not seem that they got more arrivals yet
We got our 2nd batch. 4 base and one base + Navi. Not expecting lots of movement on these right now. Early adopters tend to like the higher trim levels.
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