Colin

What has been suggested is that they want to more fully automate the current process. It's currently too labor intensive. Changing small things can create huge ripples when you're talking about an assembly line. I recall that the 2007 RDX was delayed 1 month because they found that a change in the order of assembly would increase efficiency. This change didn't require any tooling, just install "A before B" vs. "B before A". But doing so required reprogramming the computers, test running the line etc. Ended up being a 1 month delay.

stagefoursurvivor

KL,

Interesting you mention the M37, I just drove the x version and found the ride a little harsh, very akin to our 2010 TL SH-AWD. Low miles, non-CPO, 2013 with all the bells and whistles. Cheaper that a 2012 RL.
Really considering a 1-2 year temp till the RLXh starts flying

KeithL

^^^^

That is similar to what I heard I just thought I heard it only impacted mating the SH-AWD somehow. That would explain why they are not building them yet and sitting on inventory to apply firmware once the fix is in.

mgalbr22

maybe they have stopped producing the rlx and have quarantined the cars at the plant and the port. if they haven't, they should due to suspension defect (see suspension rattle thread).

Tonyware

In the list "2015 Acura Pricing and EPA Data", published today, I don't see an RLX. Hmmmm.....

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/ar...spx?id=7673-en

(unless they'll updated it later, or "more news to come...")

neuronbob

Uh-oh. Looks like RLX is toast for 2015. Or will it be a 2016 model released next year?

A positive: now we know how much the TLX is.

Colin

Nah, we have 5 on order and slated for production this month.

neuronbob

Cool beans. One would have thought that the RLX would be on their yearly product/price matrix. Made me panic for a second.

hondamore

It could be that Acura hasn't decided on the pricing for the RLX 2015 and onwards (if earlier rumors of the reduced pricing for the SHAWD RLX are to be believed). It could also be that some of the changes holding up production could be changing the EPA figures. Just a wild guess at the cause of the omission from the list.

TSX69

Ameican Honda Reports July 2014 Sales

08/01/2014 - TORRANCE, Calif.

Honda Accord posts best July sales in 5 years
Honda CR-V mints all-time July record
Acura MDX posts best July sales in four years, setting a new monthly record

American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported July 2014 Honda and Acura vehicle sales of 135,908 units. The Honda division posted sales of 123,428 units in July while Acura sold 12,480 units in the same period. Year-to-date American Honda sales reached 875,344 units.

Honda
In a month of bests, Accord, the brand's top-selling model, finished its best July in 5 years, CR-V posted its best July sales ever and the all-new Fit had its best month of the year so far.

Accord had its 7th straight month above 30,000 sales with 35,073 July sales, up 11.3 percent.
CR-V, the nation's best-selling utility vehicle through June, broke a July record for the 2nd consecutive year, bringing its year-to-date sales to 28,522, up 4.8 percent.
With dealer supplies continuing to build, the all-new 2015 Fit posted its strongest monthly sales so far this year with 5,115 units, up 1.3 percent vs. July 2013 and up 38.3 percent over June 2014 sales.

"The CR-V continues to cement its place as America's favorite and best-selling SUV with yet another record month of sales," said Jeff Conrad, Honda division senior vice president and general manager. "Combined with Accord, which is on its way to become the most popular car in the U.S. for a 2nd straight year, Honda once again has the vehicles of choice in 2 of the biggest market classes."

Acura
Overall Acura sales reflect a virtual sell out of prior TL and TSX models as the company prepared for launch of the 2015 TLX line of luxury performance sedans, which is now underway nationwide. MDX, America's all-time best-selling 3-row luxury SUV, was the brand's best-selling model, besting a year-old July record.

All-new 2015 TLX is arriving at dealers now.
MDX July sales rose 13.2 percent on sales of 6,283 units, setting a new July record and combined with RDX, set a new July record for light trucks.

"Our July sales were definitely impacted by a lack of sedan availability as we sold out of TSX and TL," said Mike Accavitti, Acura division senior vice president and general manager. "We're confident that the all-new TLX luxury performance sedan, arriving at dealers now, will quickly remedy the situation and drive Acura sales growth through the 2nd half of the year."

Terry RL

Sales have taken a big tank for the RLX.

neuronbob

Wow. Acura sales down around 20%! That is massive, though I suppose it was expected given little to no product to sell on the sedan side.

Let's hope the TLX changes that.

CG's 3GTL

Things are really bad at my dealer, I put my car in a few weeks ago and they moved the entire rental fleet to the pre owned sales section, I ended up in a super shitty rental car from enterprise, Chrysler 200....

I really hope that they make a come back with the TLX, and lets hope they get the TLXS out sooner then later....

Terry RL

Acura is not doing to good.

neuronbob

I wouldn't say that. They can't sell cars they haven't produced. They halted production of the TSX late last year and the TL in January, IIRC, and who knows when they are going to produce RLXs again.

No cars, no marketing, no sales. The poster above you indicates that the rental fleet is now the used cars; this indicates that they sold/are selling all their loaners, they are so desperate for sales. And can you blame them? Better than having an excess that they can't get rid of, IMHO.

The SUVs, though, are doing fabulously.

Colin

Although not a big seller, the ILX also falls into this category. 2014s dropped off and no '15s to sell (also the stop sale for headlights didn't help). Sedans will be a 'self-healing' issue once the TLX arrives. BTW, '15 RLX production seems to be starting this month.

KeithL

They can hand build them at the rate of current sales....

TSX69

This is the inventory at my local dealership:

ILX (3)
MDX (3)
RDX (1)

I feel so bad for those sales people - the MDXs & RDXs are flying off the lots but anyone wanting a sedan is out of luck. Not saying that the RLX #s would be better if there were more inventory, but I will say that when dealerships around here trade for some RLXs, they sell almost immediately. If they are only now starting to build the 2015s, does that not mean it will be months until they show up?

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

What's the logic behind Honda suspending the RLX production, which then leads to poor monthly sales, and creates the appearance that the flagship Acura sedan is selling poorly and not popular among luxury sedan buyers ??

The RLX is not in a model transition period, like for the TSX and TL. So there is no reason to slow or stop the RLX production line.

Rocket_man

I drove by my dealer yesterday hoping to see a TLX but they don't have them yet. But they also didn't have a single new TL or TSX or RLX on the lot. They had 4 ILX's and some CPO TSX's that looked like they might have been loaners. They did have quite a few RDX's and MDX's.

KeithL

If they kept building them they would have to give them away for free to move them. They have to build them at a certain rate to keep the line viable so they built up enough and stopped. I also suspect Acura management is trying to figure out what to do next as clearly the RLX is not doing well and I doubt their marketing plan was to discount the car as much as they are.

mgalbr22

If it's true that production of the rlx has been suspended, that is the most responsible thing management could have done until the suspension defect is corrected. This is good news if confirmed.

Colin

They allowed a longer gap between '14 and '15 production than normal for a model year changeover. Naturally this affected some more than others. IMO, it was done to allow dealers time to sell through the '14s since they're clearly not selling as fast as they would like. BUT (again IMO), the reason some had so much inventory is because of the ridiculous amount of trim/color combinations offered. Keeping some selection (5 for example) of each trim means we'd need to keep around 25 cars and that still doesn't represent most of the color combinations. This leads to an unusually high amount of inventory for a slow selling car.

hondamore

Thanks as always for the info, Colin.
When you say that the '15 RLX production is set to begin this month, do you know if that includes the Hybrid SHAWD version? (the proverbial million dollar question).

tsxacura

I'm currently working over in Jackson, MS, and the local acura dealer here hasn't had an RLX in almost 2 months. For a flagship, that's crazy. I worked for Acura for about 7 months and was there when the RLX launched. Sales were slow after the first couple of weeks.

As much bang for the buck as I think Acura provides with the RLX, it just seems like the majority of people in this class want the usual luxury trappings (RWD/V8/Brand Cachet), the latter of which I think is why the VW Phaeton didn't work out. Or a few want a really good deal for the money (Genesis) where they can kind of get some things the big boys have.. It feels like the RLX got stuck in limbo between the two.

KeithL

I think it is pretty clear Acura botched the RLX launch and roll out. I like Acura and want to come back and plan on checking out the TLX eventually, but I think Acura has settled into just being a decemt value play. The announce a halo car that is no where to be found, then have the NSX coming, but really a really sport coupe and nothing in the line up that even sends a sporty message? The need to fire the entire marketing team, unless this is their goal.

pcloadletter

There are a few low mileage CPO RLXs for $37K. Very tempting. I foresee the price dropping even more as the TLX just arrived at dealers.

tsxacura

Some of theses price drops remind me of what happened to the resale of the ZDXs. When I was working for Acura, we had one black/parchment 2013 ZDX that we couldn't probably even give away. And, this lady came in wanting to trade a 2011 loaded zdx early last year with about 23k miles on it, and the depreciation was huge. She walked away very mad. I hope this doesn't happen to RLX buyers, and I really hope Acura doesn't just give up on this segment.

stagefoursurvivor

There is absolutely no question the new TLX will steal away many, many potential RLX(and RLXh) buyers.Point in fact, when we considered the RL vs the TL AWD back in 2010, it just wasn't prudent to spend north of $10K more for the RL.
Were it not for the TLX & MDX, Acura USA could end up like Volvo & Mitsubishi

Colin

Not really. It seems the first will be directly allocated (dealers get no choice) so there seems to be little reason to 'track it' in their minds. It almost seems like it will just 'show up' one day, although I'm sure there will be some form of press release.

Fabvsix

If you think 200 RLX Hybrids (if they ever arrive) is going to save the day......its not.....if they come they will be overpriced, extreme HMC limited BS and it will send a bad message to potential RLX buyers that will probably go with the TLX if not walk to competitors.....

Colin

I don't think it'll save the day, but I also don't think you've even driven it yet? Difficult to determine value if you haven't seen what you're getting for the money or even how much money it'll be.

Fabvsix

Colin I will wait for the NSX.....

Edward'TLS

It just occurs to me that maybe Acura is treating the upcoming RLX-hybrid just like all those limited-production-rate new-model Ferrari/Lamborghini/McLaren supercars.

Serious buyers need to put down a deposit as soon as the latter cars are publicly announced, in order to secure one, many years before the actual production date.

These committed buyers also don't know the final price, nor get to see/touch/drive the cars, because the cars only exist on papers.

hondamore

What you describe may have been the original plan for the 2014 RLX SH-SHAWD, but the delays and bad press they've gotten this past year probably will result in reasonable pricing for the limited 2014 run and then a larger 2015 production run just to get the cars on the road so they can get some word-of-mouth buzz going regarding the technology.
Just my guess.

mgalbr22

MY 2014 is over. I assume no cars have been built. That is indeed "limited".
At this point, they need to get it right before they build and sell any, so the mistakes of the fwd RLX are not repeated.

George Knighton

Saitama built them.

For reasons not known to us completely, they were not shipped when they were expected.

I've heard two different rumors, but nobody's ever come out and said why they were not shipped when expected.

TSX69

Cars.com is showing 122 2015s out there now. I checked the dealer sites & sure enough, they have 2015 RLX inventory. So did they ship the hybrid with these models - if the rumor of them waiting for the boat to fill is true ... ???

George Knighton

There were more rumors than that.

One rumor was about reprogramming to change how the valves opened. A well known Honda aficionado tested 0-60 in an RLX Advance at 5.7s and then tested his preproduction RLX SH-AWD at 5.4s, and supposedly this kind of thing was replicated among other testers.

This was not really suitable.

Another rumor is that even though the rear motors were dumbed down as far as aggressiveness goes, testing with other cars using electric motors did not go well and they went back to dumb it down even more so that people were not surprised when the car decided you meant business and vectored the rear.

Sometimes people are kind of dumb...and sometimes they say things that are even dumber. One tester slammed P-AWS as having a "radical transition to oversteer" [sic] which is of course entirely untrue, and similar things were said by less than supportive testers about the preproduction SH-AWD cars.

neuronbob

Autotrader shows 135 2015 RLXs out there. My preferred dealer has none in stock, which is odd given they are a moderate-high sales dealer. Likely just haven't gotten them in yet. No SH-AWD though, I looked.