Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Why is Sept sales this slow, all across the Honda and Acura brands ?

TSX69

Toyota, Honda, Nissan Sales Fall in September
None of the automakers are expected to report big year-over-year gains for the month because September 2013 had 2 fewer selling days than last year and the big Labor Day weekend fell in August this year.

A lot of the brands are reporting declined sales this year vs last and those with gains so far are very minimal.

KeithL

I say the RLX is peaked, the first 6 months regardless of time of year should be the strongest 6 months. Let's look at Infiniti, the M is now 42 months on the market and even that sold 370 units with a 13 model year car as their 14 will not be out for another 3 months. True Acura may be fine with all this, but it surely does not send a good message to potential customers.

I find it interesting that the Q50 had very weak sales (2367) not good for a car that replaced a 7 year old model that was selling 3K units a month. I think this space is so competitive you haev to be on your game or you are done.

Edward'TLS

The Sept issue of the Road & Track magazine did a shootout on the IS350, 335i, ATS-V6, and the Q50; and the Q50 came in dead last.

Maybe luxury sedan buyers DO read the Road & Track magazines.

Rocket_man

Even worse than the Q50 coming in last is that they didn't even put an Acura in the shootout.

BDoggPrelude

Agreed x16342839403.

After 7 months of sales, the RLX is at 2,950 units. The 2G RL sold 10,681 units in its first 7 months of sales. That is nearly a 73% drop. I just don't see the hybrid-AWD model's release adding all that much to overall sales at this point in the game. At this rate, the RLX will sell just over 5k units in its first 12 months of production. The 2G RL sold 17,572 units in 2005, and its two biggest months for sales were actually the last two months of 2004 and are not counted into that tally. The RLX sales are a far cry from the 2G RL's sales when it first came out.

I'll say it again, Acura is relying so heavily on the RLX's savvy tech gadgets to lure buyers. The problem with that is an overwhelmingly large amount of those gadgets have already trickled down into cheaper mainstream vehicles. Have you been inside a new Ford Focus? It's pretty hard to justify dropping $60k on an RLX when you can get that much luxury and gadgets in a Focus for less than half of the buy-in.

BDoggPrelude

That's a good thing. The comparable Acura product would have likely been a TL coming into the competition with 5 year old technology and design language. It would have been decimated.

Rocket_man

My point exactly.

miner

I live in the 4th largest city in the US (maybe 3rd by now) and I have not seen another RLX yet.

neuronbob

Well then, you have a unique ride. Enjoy the exclusivity!

miner

neuronbob - you are right. I have had a number of people stop to ask me what car that is. Many thought it was a M-series Infinity. When I said Acura RLX some had a look of surprise on their face. A man I work with drives a BMW M6 and wanted to trade cars for the weekend since he is looking for a family sedan - a sort of extend test drive. He was not happy with the 5-series offerings. I know he pushes his M6 pretty hard so I do not think I will take him up on his offer but I will let him drive the RLX IF I am with him.

a35tl

Smart move. I wouldn't let someone drive my car for a whole weekend unsupervised either. I might consider a 20 - 30 minute supervised test drive but that would be about it.

BDoggPrelude

I don't know. I guess that depends. Do you get to drive the M6 for the weekend? After owning an M6, I can't imagine he will be very entertained with mashing the pedal on an RLX for very long. Two completely different kinds of cars. One is fun to flog the crap out of. The other one will put you to sleep with coziness.

George Knighton

I think it's a combination of the conservative looks and the economy.

The Accord's going decently, however. And when you account for pre-Fall drops that might have been predicted for September, the MDX looks good, too.

I'm not going to complain about their sales because it just makes for better deals for the rest of us.

I love my 2010 TL to pieces. It's incredible, not a hitch at all. Nothing done but regular maintenance after 82,000 miles.

And it was bought at a huge discount because in December 2009 they already knew that the 4G TL was a miss with its edgy looks.

Don't give a damn. :-) I can't see what the car looks like when I'm driving it.

holografique

I love all this pontificating and debating over a car that 99% of the people in the conversation don't even own the car in question...

JAB00

I think this is a problem with all Japanese luxury makers. Lexus took 8 years to update its IS. Acura took 7 or 8 years to refresh the RL to RLX. The TL is getting long in the tooth now. The other problem is the bizarre aesthetics that the Japanese implement with new model changes. BMW, Audi and to a lesser extent Mercedes are great at slight evolutions to the design language. The new Q50 looks nothing like the outgoing G. If the badge was covered the majority of people wouldn't know what the Q50 was. The same goes for Acura and Lexus. The 4G TL looks nothing like the 3G. While there is some similarity with the new IS compared to the outgoing generation, that fish-mouth grill is kind of polarizing. Maybe if I were in my 20s, the IS look would appeal to me. However, as a 30 something, the small size and racer-boy looks is just a turn off. This will be the lost generation for the Japanese luxury sedans.

The Germans will rule. The South Koreans will continue to make up ground at the expense of the Japanese

George Knighton

I don't, that's true.

But I might, depending....

We talked about the 4G TL quite a bit before we bought it, too.

Edward'TLS

If only RLX owners can participate in this sub-forum, then there will be virtually nothing to read about, given that Acura can only manage to sell a couple hundreds of them each month.

Nothing can be gained by Acura when only the handful of RLX owners keep praising the slow-selling sedan.

However, the majority others (non RLX owners) can provide insightful and valuable information (to Acura) on the reasons why these potential buyers all passed on or failed to pick the RLX; in order to help Acura to fix up all the shortcomings, implement more improvements, and eventually make the future RLX a better and more appealing premium sedan.

I had looked but passed on buying the 2005 RL eight years ago; and, with no AWD RLX in sight, I have once again passed on buying the RLX just early last month.

holografique

yea, and we get it, SH-AWD version. its been said a thousand times already on this forum. we get it. posting and posting and pontificating over how, when and where Acura will release is just more of the same endless babble. everything else is pure theory and opinion about what Acura is thinking and/or their strategy unless someone who actually works for ther product marketing and or product engineering team cares to speak up. And quite frankly they are being smart by not divulging any information because as soon as they do all the vultures will swoop in an hold them to every word, and completely bash them if its anything remotely less.

Acura could be going for a completely different demographic with the RLX than what they are going for with the TL/TLX. Acura has gotten this far and continues to e a successful car company. Let them do their thing, take their time and trust that they will get right, just as they have in the past.

Edward'TLS

Acura = successful car company selling < $50K sedans ==> YES.
Acura = successful premium car company selling $50+K sedans ==> NO.

Acura seriously needs to achieve a premium auto brand image, which it has failed so far "just as (it has) in the past".

Acura has blundered quite a few times as it runs it's course with little regard to what customers really want, such as the Vigor, 1G CL, SLX, 4G Power-Plenum TL, ZDX, and now the RL/RLX.

This is why inputs from customers and potential buyers are so important in shaping and improving desirable Acura products.

Complaints = improvement.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss...-is-it-enough/

GoHawks

So are saying we can only debate cars we own?

The forums would be a bit boring wouldn't you say?

holografique

It was more directed at all the negative "this sucks, and that sucks" about a car they don't even own or have yet to experience directly for themselves. The RLX is by far the best vehicle I've ever owned aside from my 06 TL. And IMO they did an amazing job in the redesign overall with the new RLX.

Yes, it's not "perfect", as is everything in life. And there are a number of things I'd like to see improved in the 2015 model of which I plan to post here at some point. I remember I wasn't sure initially on getting the RLX myself. But after having done tons of research against my other options in the same price range, test driving it, and spending some real time with the car, I realized it was a great choice in balance of design, features, technology, and cost. And I haven't looked back once.

The only other car that I was seriously considering was the Lexus GS450. The kicker for me was the interior design. I'm just not a fan of Lexus interior design. the IS is the only interior they have that I remotely like. The RLX interior is by far one of the best interiors I've ever had the opportunity of experiencing in a vehicle. And I've driven 7 series, 5-series, M3, Audi A3/4/5, etc etc. etc. And you just can't beat the RLX interior. It's gorgeous, lush, sexy, sophisticated and modern all at the same time. IMO the Seacoast interior is the one to experience. The black just doesn't do it justice. I think the moment I made my final decision was when I checked out a white Advanced model at a dealer in Tucson while visiting my fiance. That was the first time I got to see the Seacoast in person. I was blown away. I walked out of the dealer with my decision made.


Say's who!? Like I said before, maybe Acura has a different mindset, philosophy or value behind what they choose to design and create as a car company. Why is it that just because they don't compare to the other manufactures that you chose to compare them to, suddenly that means they HAVE to do anything about it? From my perspective, personally I like the fact that the RLX isn't selling in hotcakes. It makes the car unique, it provides an option for those of us who want to drive something different and not feel like another lemming with a BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc vehicle on the road. And what Acura has proven is that they can continue to make those "niche" vehicles at their liking because THEY CAN and they know that ultimately, there will be buyers for those of us who are looking for just that vehicle. Regardless of what the market, you, or anyone else has to say about it.

TheBigPill

That's fine. You liked the car enough to purchase it. I'm sure it will serve you well and you're right, we don't know what Acura is thinking but do you think they're satisfied with RLX sales as is?

Again, maybe Acura is content with present sales and wouldn't want another dollar to enter their coffers but I'm betting they'd love more sales.

From what I see most people on this forum want Acura to succeed. There's wisdom in rejection if mined correctly. As is, there's a very real chance that this car will be terminal at approx. 400/mth.

Pitbull11

Checked new lease offers by Acura. Very strange? RLX $449 per month $2700 down 36 months 10k miles per year, $53k MSRP. RDX $399 per month $1999 down 36 months 10k miles per year, $35k MSRP. So for $50 more per month Acura will lease you their flagship vehicle that has a $18k higher MSRP. I think I might see if the Acura dealer wants to flip me out of my current ILX lease which is $259 per month, I'd pick a new RLX for $190 more per month then a new RDX for $140 more per month!

GoHawks

From my perspective at least, a guy who has owned 3 Acuras spanning nearly 20 years, the RLX just didn't grab me the same way the 2nd gen RL did when it was introduced and my TL prior to that (I owned a Vigor before that).

Now the CTS coupe I currently own did but I was unsure of leaving the brand and going to the domestics. Once I saw the RLX it made my choice easier.

Not because I think the RLX is ugly, it just didn't "move" me like the CTS did and my prior Acuras. Don't get me wrong, there is a concern over long term reliability, but with 21K miles on the odometer of my CTS, it has actually had less issues that my '06 RL did during the same time frame (I am keeping track of visits and comparing against my old RL's service record).

Who would have thunk it?

Again, from my perspective, I don't think the RLX is a "bad" car. Quite the contrary. I think in true Honda/Acura fashion it is very well engineered with excellent fit and finish.

I just don't think that it will be "the" car for it to be considered in the same breath when people think of BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes.

I understand your point that "maybe Acura is trying to be different", but I personally am not buying into that. While it may be good for the prospective buyer, I can't imagine that Acura is happy with the relatively low sales of the RLX this early into it's introduction (I got a great deal on my '06 RL when sales begin to trail off), that can't be what Acura had planned. As others have pointed out, the 2nd gen RL sales were more than double of the RLX sales this early on. Even if they figured that he RLX would be a test bed for the technology that would trickle down to the rest of the line up, but even that argument doesn't hold water. The 1st NSX was that in the past, and when the NSX was discontinued the 2nd gen RL played that role, but now the 2nd gen NSX is coming out that is supposed to showcase and vet out the technology.

In the end as has been said here in the past, Acura has an identity crisis. I have read that in many publications so it's not just a bunch of us in Acurazine complaining.

Acura was the first of the Asian car companies to create a luxury marque, Lexus and Infiniti soon followed. Lexus did the best job of differentiating themselves from Toyota. Acura hasn't done that, much less elevate themselves to be considered a true luxury brand. If it wasn't for the sales of their SUVs, Acura would be in a world of hurt.

Again, that doesn't mean they don't engineer and build well made cars.

My $0.02.

rwhutch66

The wife is on her 4th RL, the new RLX. It is very nice, and that's compared with a 2003 BMW 745Li. Only disappointment is no AWD.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Acura mainly has not catered now or in the past to the "Look at me" crowd. Some equate "Look at me" features/image as the only path to luxury/premium status. I don't see Acura/Honda changing path from their course. They believe first in producing well-engineered vehicles in which everything works and that provide many, many miles of trouble-free driving. I find those to be premium or luxury attributes, but others obviously do not.

Edward'TLS

^^^^^

Acura DID try to cater to the "Look at me" crowd, with the "Power Plenum" signature grille on the 4G pre-MMC TL. It was trying to use the hideous-looking signature grille to stand out the 4G TL and all future Acura products, but fucked up big time.

Thank God, Acura realized it's mistake with drastically decreased TL sales, and thus dumped the "Power Plenum" design forever.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Oh yeah. You're talking about my car. I definitely don't count myself in that crowd.

Oswald Vater

I've noticed! They're now offering the Tech for $499/month with $2700 down. These offers are so attractive that even though I upped the lease on my 10 TL/Tech for 6 more months I may see if I can do a deal without the down money when I take it in for service next week as my TL is worth more than the residual.

cyph

As a previous RL owner (05), the new RLX drives much, much better even without the SH-AWD. Smooth and very responsive. The RL in contrast drove like a slow moving tank. We test drove BMW, Lexus, and the Acura. Yes, the BMW is nice and responsive, but it doesn't glide like the RLX. Then again, I don't drive like I'm qualifying for the Indy 500.

The one thing that sold my wife (it's her car) was the interior. Wow. After we test drove this car, we went to Lexus. She didn't even want to test drive the Lexus the moment she sat in it. The reviewers are doing a great injustice to the RLX. Oh well, at least we'll be driving a unique vehicle and won't be seeing many clones on the road.

holografique

Yup, that's what im getting at. All these complaints about lack of SH-AWD and I'm just like...what are you trying to drive...the Indy 500? All these people complaining about no SH-AWD, have you test driven the car extensively? The car drives amazing with P-AWS, and "glide" and "responsive" is exactly how to describe it. The car responds very well and it just has this "glide" that is incredible. Laser accurate.

Bingo! Exactly the reason I just didn't even bother with BMW, Audi, or Lexus. The GS450 is a nice car spec wise, but none of these cars can touch the interior of the RLX. Acura nailed it. And with the exception of the engine and handline, the interior is the "experience". That's where you the driver spends 99% of the time with the car....driving it.

miner

I agree 100%. No other car in this priced range can touch the Acuras interior - no cheap plastic trim in this car.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

I agree. I drove a few RLX's in a test drive event and the interior is very impressive. There were also MDX's for us to test drive, and the interior of the MDX was several steps below the interior of the RLX. I have friends who drive new Audi's such as Q5 and A4, and those don't even come close to the interior of the MDX, let alone the RLX.

homer626

I'd say the new RLX is selling way better then the 09-12 ones IMO. I've actually seen about 2-3 in my area along with a couple of new MDX's.

TSX69

Honda October Sales Rise on Record CR-V and Strong Civic Sales; Acura Posts over 17-Percent Increase on Record Sales of Truck of the Year Candidate MDX

11/01/2013 - TORRANCE, Calif.

CR-V boasts record October sales
Civic sales up 32.1 percent over October 2012
Acura light trucks post record October sales on strength of all-new MDX and RDX

American Honda Motor Co., Inc. today reported October 2013 U.S. total sales of 114,538 units, an increase of 7.1 percent compared with October 2012 (up 3.1 percent based on the Daily Selling Rate, or DSR*). Year-to-date sales reached 1,273,550, an increase of 8.5 percent. Honda Division October sales reached 100,242, an increase of 5.7 percent compared to last October. Acura Division posted sales of 14,296, an increase of 17.5 percent compared to October 2012.

Honda

CR-V surpasses the previous October record set in 2006, with sales of 22,554 up 11.6 percent from October 2012
Civic sales for October were the best since 2001 and up substantially over the previous year with an impressive 32.1 percent rise, posting sales of 27,328
Accord posted October sales of 25,162, with America’s best-selling retail model handily passing the 300,000-unit mark for year-to-date, up 11.2 percent versus 2012

“Despite consumer uneasiness early in the month, real demand remains strong across the Honda brand and we remain on track to achieve number one retail sales this year for our core models: Civic, Accord, CR-V and Odyssey,” said John Mendel, executive vice president of sales at American Honda. "With the all-new Accord Hybrid arriving at dealerships this week and a significantly updated Civic coming later in the year, we anticipate sales will continue to be hot even as the weather cools down heading into winter.”

Acura

Acura posted October sales of 14,296, an increase of 17.5 percent compared to last October with Acura light trucks recording their best October since 2007
MDX sales set an October monthly record with 5,608 units, up 48.7 percent compared to last October
RDX also set an October record with sales of 3,333, up 25.3 percent compared to last year
RLX posted its best sales month since its release in March

“The poise and power of Acura’s line of light trucks continues to win over an ever-increasing number of discerning SUV customers,” said Jeff Conrad, vice president and general manager of Acura sales. “With MDX recording its best October since 2004 and RDX continuing to set sales records month over month, Acura has the strongest one two punch in the industry.”

neuronbob

Great googly moogly! The RLX was on fi-ah in October! If it keeps this up, it'll pass the TL, which has been dropping like a rock for months!

hadokenuh

I guess those heavy incentives help a lot! Hope to see more RLXs on the road.

TSX69

I guess that the dealer incentives last month really helped sales. Here are the competitor #s:

Eclass 6,456 +22.6%
5series 5,020 +18.7%
XTS 2,750 +8.3%
A6 1,838 +13.5%
GS 1,293 -18.1%
MKS 919 +31.5%
RLX/RL 830 +3,706%
XF 611 +120%
M 374 -49.3%

Still amazed at how many E & 5s are sold compared to the rest. The XTS #s are kinda baffling too.

getakey

wow - with the release of the hybrid, it may break 1000