hondamore

I couldn't disagree more. The 2G RL was a heavy beast but had amazing handling for it's size and I'm expecting even more from the hybrid version. With the SHAWD sending the extra torque of the electric motors to the outside rear wheels in a turn and all four wheels being fed by 370HP, I don't think it is a stretch to say that the handling will surpass the RLX FWD version which I was very impressed with during my test drive.

No it won't be Corvette or Porsche sporty, but it should be a lot of fun to drive 3 friends to the golf course in or to take my wife and another couple for a trip to our place in mountains.

weather

I am not holding much hope that the TLX will save Acura and their sedan and my main reason for saying so is the following:

They want to make their car too much to look alike now! I understand they want to gave it the corporate look but you have to have some distinct styling in order to get people excited about the car. The Civic and the Accord look drastically different, so why are we are expecing the TLX to be a shrunken version of the RLX? If the RLX is received in a somewhat lukewarm fashion, how can we expect to be blown away by the TLX? We know they are not going to come out with a design that is radical and will stun the world as the 3G did when it came out.....They attempted to do the same with the 4G but it failed (different but not well received) and now, they will go with a very similar styling.

The interior of the Acura lineup is now also very similar and I don't expect a huge difference between the MDX, RLX and TLX...so if the exterior styling and interior styling are somewhat predictable, then why are we holding our breath in anticipation thinking that we'll be blown away. I think the only we might be blown away is how many people will now appreciate the 4G design language when the neutered 5G comes out *lol*

I want to be blown away but I think I can predict that I'll be underwhelmed....My only surprise will be the body kit and the rims, which I hope they won't do the rear piece as badly as they did on the 4G.

Rocket_man

A respectable number but it looks like the RLX is not going to break much above the 500-600 level. I can't see them selling many of the Hybrids.

Maybe if you bundle trucks with SUVs it gets close, but not if you look at just Cars and SUVs. (From GoodCarBadCar)

- YTD (through Jul) Cars sales in the US is 4.669M
- YTD (through Jul) SUV sales in the US is 2.718M
- YTD (through Jul) Truck sales in the US is 1.249M

SUV sales seem to be increasing lately but cars still rule. While it is great that Acura's RDX and MDX are at or near the top of their individual segments, their sedans and lagging in every segment. And of course the two biggest selling vehicles consistently are the F-150 and Silverado. Maybe Acura should build a Pickup truck next.

Personally I'm trying to keep my expectations realistic. I'm looking for:

- competent
- fills my squares
- luxury-like
- reliable
- cost effective
- doesn't make me go 'ick' when I see it

Anything above that is gravy.

jhr3uva90

Actually building a luxury pickup truck based on the MDX might be a decent idea. It probably won't sell any worse than the current RLX.

KeithL

I agree with most of what you say, except if you look an Lexus and MB and BMW, and Audi you can have common family resemblance, but still have individual personality. I do think Acura needs to bring back the Type-S and add some subtle aggressive styling such as modified fascia and bumper and maybe even put real quad exhaust tips on a Type-S. I am a bit concerned about the interior, while the new interiors is not bad, I find it too conservative. I really wanted to come back to Acura, but just feel they are just getting lost in the sea of competition. It is s shame they don't have the TLX now, with all the surge in car sales they really could have cashed in right now.

TSX69

Lincoln tried to luxury-fy the F150 and that did not go to well so not sure how an Acura-fied RidgeLine would do - altho I am curious. A luxury mini-van would be nice considering how popular the Odyssey is - altho the MB Rclass did not sell well.

Now that I have been seriously car shopping these past few months I definitely see the large difference in options available from the Germans & the Japanese, especially Acura. Granted, trying to configure a BMW 3series can get quite overwhelming (and nickle & dimed to death) but hopefully Acura will offer a little more options - a TLX coupe is a step in the right direction.

Back to the RLX: this is selling about how I had predicted and I doubt that the hybrid will add more than a few sales per month. Hopefully they can maintain the ~500/month for a while. National inventory keeps creeping up & people are averaging now ~$3,000 off so I guess it is a good sign that they have not had to do deep discounts yet - altho I am sure that they are coming.

Back to the sport hybrid, I really hope that they emphasize the sport by not only more aggressive styling but can we get red/black interior, please? That would definitely make me consider purchasing 1 a lot more.

db22

The RLX will soon have 2 distinctly different versions and the TLX is below them both so I do not expect it to be anywhere near as classy or feature filled. Their only hope is to make it "apparently" more sporty but the engine options will probably be the same as for the RLX so the RLX and the TLX may be in competition with each other again. Maybe the TLX will be a 2 door sport coupe only? That would make it sporty, distinctive and a niche that Acura needs to fill.

I do hold a lot of hope for the hybrid RLX. DCT, AWD and 30MPG blows away Infiniti and the Lexus GS hybrid etc so it could be a winner in its segment.

BTW - if they put a Red/Black interior in the RLX I think that TSX69 might be their only customer. A classy looking luxury performance sedan with a gaudy interior from a boy racer rice rocket would kill the whole concept. You might get away with a red/black interior in a CTS-V but only because you can blow every other sedan out of the water.

TheBigPill

I disagree. IMO Acura's sedan problems can be traced back to design. People didn't like the beak and they don't like the anodyne styling of the RLX.

If the RLX looked like the Model S there would be a significant sales increase. IMO Acura has a lot of built up good will. Honda/Acura vehicles last BUT the luxury market is different which is why you'll hear comments such as "it's a big Accord" thrown around as a pejorative.

If Acura incorporated some emotional, look good, CFM styling into the RLX the ending comments would be "and you can expect it to be reliable, just like an Accord" or something to that effect.

Colin

It's all opinion anyway. IMO, its all about price. The 'beak' has been a non-issue since TL MMC and (logically) the MDX and RDX share the feature and are selling well.

TLtrigirl

iTrader: (1)

While I agree with some of what you are saying. No one seems to complain too much about Lexus, BMW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan, having a family resemblance. BMW...to the masses...a 3 series and 5 series...inconspicuously look alike except their size. Even I sometimes have hard time seeing the difference. Camrys and avalons same thing. Honestly I believe us enthusiasts are hyper critical of the styling and performance of cars while the masses could care less. I read an article about the corolla as the best selling small car. It's about as boring, and slow as can be, but it sells to the masses because its reliable and inexpensive.

A friend of mine bought a new CRV...she hates it, thinking it would be like her 1G. And cloth seats were a must have with a navi. The combo does not come this way from Honda. Example of what non car people want in a car. Same types complain about having a sunroof in the car that they didn't want...but you want a few modern tech goodies, you get the sunroof whether you want it or not. These same people will also question why cars can't be made without it and get the navi. My point...Acura is tying to appeal to the masses. I, too, want to be blown away by the TLX...but based on recent updates (Mdx, rlx, rdx)...it will be a nice car...but...most likely underwhelming to us enthusiasts. All the more reason to love my 3G TL that much more.

Back on topic....it will be interesting to see sales numbers when the AWD version comes out...or interest for that matter.

KeithL

I agree with this. Look at Audi, my new A6 and an A8 are easily mistaken by the average non car enthusiast person, and the A4 is very similar as well, but is smaller enough that most will not mix it up too much. There is nothing wrong with family resemblance it is the over all style they need to get right and then features that people want. I think that is what got Acura in this place is the fact that the TSX, TL and RL looks nothing alike. The crass bar then beak were it, you could put that beak on anything and call it an Acura because there was nothing else to say it was an Acura. The problem is they need a design language tat extends past the beak. Love or hate Infiniti styling you see they have gone the same way. I have had my M37 called a G on numerous occasions, but int he end they knew it was an Infiniti. When I had my Acuras people would ask if it ws an Acura, not which one.

weather

...and not to get too off topic but I agree fully with TLtrigirl and Keith that Acura is not alone in going that route and BMW and Audi are good example of brands where their line up is hard to tell apart unless you have a measuring tape with you. The point I was trying to make (and maybe my French is hindering my ability to do a good job at explaining it) is that I doubt we will be ecstatic about the TLX because judging by the current Acura language, it seems that the enthusiasts about cars (like us) will be underwhelmed.

As TLtrigirl stated, the TLX will be an nice car and will be a great car, but it will now have the effect that the 3G did when it took the car industry by storm when it came out. We may be surprised but I can't see how will be, unless the body kit really sets the car apart...Just a few more months and we'll be able to look back at these posts and see how accurate we were.

BTW...the reason it works for Audi and BMW is that Audi has a gorgeous design signature and BMW appeals to the brand snobs....Acura has neither at the moment.

Colin

I do not under estimate the importance of the TLX for the Acura brand. But I think it's going to have a tough road ahead. The ILX could sell more with a better engine in the base model and the RLX could sell more once the all wheel drive version gets here. However, the reality is that both of these cars are on the edges of the curve (so to speak). People never seem to remember that the Integra sedan rarely (if ever) sold more than 20,000 units per year and the ILX will do that. And, although the RLX seems to be steady, it's well off the pace of the last all new RL from 2005. The TLX is going to have to bear the brunt of Acuras sedan thrust. To me, the key to its success will be an opening price under $35,000, preferably with a V-6 engine. And, this might still be too expensive to capture ex-TSX owners.

Edward'TLS

Because of the demise of the TSX, the price range for the upcoming TLX can be stretched much wider than it is now. Such as a 200hp blown 4-cylinder base car (like the Audi's) starting at ~$30K, a couple mid-level trims, and finally a 300+hp top trim up to ~$45K.

When the AWD RLX eventually comes out, the RLX prices will even cover a much wider range than that.

Rocket_man

If they make a version with the I4 they can meet this mark for ex-TSX owners and hopefully not dumb it down because it is an I4.

miner

When I bought my RLX Advance on Aug 10 (752 miles ago) my dealer had 38 on the lot then. Since that day the GM told me they have sold 18 RLXs and now have 48 on the lot. This dealer is #2 in volume in the Region. Their bread 'n butter is the MDX and RDX at this dealer.

GoHawks

But the 2nd gen RL sales tanked after the first two years.

GoHawks

I disagree that familiarity is bad. Mercedes, BMW and Lexus all share similar design cues and it doesn't hurt them.

Look at the BMW interiors. Whether you are looking at a 3 series, 5 series, X3 or X5, they all look similar.

Rocket_man

The MDX this month along sold more than all of Acura's sedans combined. And when you add in the RDX they sell almost twice as many SUVs as sedans. Acura really needs to straighten out their sedan line up. While their SUVs are at or near the top of their markets, their sedans as 'also ran's.'

I think MB and BMW and Audi have a certain brand style that people like and they stick to that same style like a painter sticks to his style. Acura's style is just sort of bland. Their last attempt to mix it up was bad, and now I think they are gun shy to try anything risky. Unfortunately.

Edward'TLS

Agree.

When you see the "double kidney" grille, you know it's a BMW. The "drop jaw" grille, an Audi. The "spindle" grille, a Lexus.

This is called brand recognition, and is particularly effective in building up the public recognition level of a premium auto brand, which Acura is seriously lacking right now.

Before Acura has finally nailed down it's signature grille just recently, it's hard to associate all Acura vehicles with the Acura brand, due to the various differently looking front end and grille designs; especially that some look more like a Honda than an Acura.

jhr3uva90

Basically, Acura is an SUV company. I don't even see the point of their sedans right now with so many viable alternatives in the market. Without Sport Hybrid All Wheel Drive, Acura's sedans are just "there."

neuronbob

I'll qualify this. They tanked after selling a hell of a lot better than the RLX has so far. The first few months they were selling like gangbusters, 1000 copies a month or more for two years. That first month of sales was 1941!

http://hondanews.com/channels/acura-...ll-new-2005-rl


Even the 1G RL sold over 1800 in its best month. The RLX is barely 1/4 of that. It's too bad.

Again, we'll see how much the sport hybrid adds to RLX sales.

GoHawks

Well this is one of those "I told you so" (not really at you Bob) moments.

I along with many others predicted that it wouldn't be a strong seller. About the only thing the RLX offers over the 2nd gen RL is more room. Yes it has more technology, but so does everyone else.

P-AWS is an attempt to mask the FWD dynamics that are present because you no longer have SH-AWD (because they refuse to build a true BMW competitor).

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the strongest selling numbers for any car are at introduction when excitement and interest is at it's strongest. As many have said, they should have led with the SH-SH-AWD version. As the saying goes, "you don't get a second chance to make a first impression". No matter how good the hybrid version will be, it'll be too little too late.

Now keep in mind that I am not saying that the RLX is not a good car. I am saying that Acura failed to build a car that would generate the excitement that a flagship should.

Look at the buzz Cadillac just created with the Elmirage concept. That car is gorgeous, RWD, TTV8. Cadillac has stated that it hints at the new flagship car although not a preproduction version of an actual model (like the CTS coupe was in 2008).

I suppose the 2nd gen NSX might be that, although that is really more of a halo car, like the LFA was for Lexus.

I will say though that Acura should turn the NSX designers loose on the sedans.


I think someone made a comment that Acura may be gunshy given the criticism given the 4th gen TL, and they may be onto something, although I will contend that there was nothing wrong with the profile and rear of that car, just that horrendous beak.

jhr3uva90

I'm so disappointed with RLX that I might end up buying an MDX when the time comes (hopefully not soon). Acura seems to excel at SUVs, but not sedans and definitely not coupes. In fact, they even seem to mess up when they try to make an otherwise decent SUV into a coupe.

hondamore

I drove both the new MDX and RLX at the local track event and I felt the RLX was an definite step up in class from the MDX (mostly based on the interior design and "feel"). The MDX is a great SUV, fun to drive and I'll be buying my wife another one at some point (when they add SH SHAWD in the future???) but if you drive both, the choice will be clear. Also, with demand for the MDX very high and demand for the RLX, well, not so much, you might be able to get a better deal on a loaded RLX than a loaded MDX. Just my two cents.

jhr3uva90

The MDX and RLX seemed to have very similar interiors to me. Perhaps you have to get the Advance version of the MDX for it to be almost as luxurious as the RLX, but close enough. Also, the MDX has SH-AWD right now. Does anyone know when the RLX with Sport Hybrid AWD will be out, or how reliable that system will be?

GoHawks

If there is one thing I wouldn't worry too much about with Acura, is reliability. Yeah they had a couple missteps in the past (5-speed transmission in the early 2000s & the Acura RL door handles), but overall they tend not to introduce something until it's ready, unlike some other manufacturers. Could be why the SH-SH-AWD hasn't been introduced yet. Working the final bugs out of it.

Look at SH-AWD. When it came out it was pretty advanced and time has shown that it is pretty rock solid. I don't think I recall anyone saying they had an out and out failure. Not even a fluke one. I think the only issue I can recall on the RL is the bearing that holds the carbon fiber driveshaft in cold weather would whine until it warmed up.

Edward'TLS

Did you try out the FWD MDX or the SH-AWD MDX at that local track event ?

KeithL

At the end of the day I think we all realize Acura builds great products from an engineering and reliability perspective, but they don't know how to market any of them. I find it hard to believe Acura internally thinks the RLX is a success, unless lackluster test mule for future tech is what they were shooting for. Sure many argue they are the value brand and conservative, but there are numerous of people that when they spend the amount the RLX is commanding want more than that, they usually want something that pulls at them emotionally even a bit. They also made serious flaws with the RLX, as clearly stated by many, the SH-SH-AWD (say that 3 times fast) should have been there day one, or at least an SH-AWD. They need to do 2 things, first hire some designers that can design a car that inspires people to want it, then hire a marketing/branding team that can put a vision together so people will know what Acura stands for and want one.

I don't think Acura is in serious trouble, but they will never be mentioned in the same group as MB, BMW, Audi and Lexus. You may not like Infiniti styling, but they at least now have a plan to try and crack into that group. With Hyundai and Kia coming up from the bottom Acura is going to get squeezed.

hondamore

I not sure they even offer the FWD MDX in Canada - I drove the SHAWD version. Sorry, I should have clarified my location as our option packages are very different here.

dwest1023

Acura had some good designers and marketers in 2006. I owned a 06 RL, TL and TSX. They must have fired them all when the beak arrived.

KeithL

Or tied their hands to the point that they are impotent.

saturno_v

I have seen maybe only one RLX on the road here in Seattle...yes one.....

The car design language is so bland that it almost hurts your eyes, copying design cues from everyone...heck even the first generation Hyundai Genesis managed to be a bit more original.

Acura has cemented its destiny and reputation of being the Japanese Buick...but Buick survives only because they love the brand in China so GM has decided to keep them around.

To call Acura design language of the last few years schizophrenic, directionless is a huge understatement...the 3G TL was already a very "cute" car then they tried to be bolder and original with a stand out style (I love my 4G TL and people still compliment my car at gas station and parking lots after 3 years...not bad for a supposedly "ugly" design with the infamous beak) then they chickened out.....with the RLX the company seems almost to "apologize" to the public and withdraw to a soulless bland styling just when Infiniti and Lexus are actually getting visually bolder and more assertive at every new generation of cars....the RLX seems almost the typical non-Acura Japanese luxury car of 15 years ago....


If they keep going in this way, Acura may cease to exists in few years.

jhr3uva90

I think the RL/RLX and the TL/TLX are designed by two totally different sets of people. The former is designed in Japan while the latter is designed in California.

victorber

Having just come off a 7000+ mile trip in my RLX, the one thing that was said to me at my mil reunion in Branson..." Was That You" that went by me like a stealth eagle? The "beak" is evidently representative of an Eagle...and anyway, when your inside looking out, you don't even notice it... But They Do!
For a 3900+lb vehicle and being as agile as it is, the designers have made their mark....

The one noticeable difference I saw between my previous 09TL Tech and the RLX was that the TL seemed a little sportier and quicker in the curves but not by much, because the P-AWS makes up the difference.
Just my observations...

Oh I forgot to mention, I didn't see another RLX on the whole trip...

getakey

Bets on Sept numbers?

TSX69

Since September is historically a slow month & sales in my area have been stagnant as opposed to the slow & steady it has been .... I am guessing 300-400.

BTW, I saw a ZDX this morning. That makes, I think, the 4th ever that I have seen in the wild.

KeithL

I'll go along with the 300-400 number. I honestly thinks sales have peaked already for the RLX and the Hybrid will barely add anything to the numbers.

TSX69

Stylish Honda Accord and Civic Lead Honda September Sales; Acura’s Newest Products Continue to Advance Brand Growth

American Honda today reported September 2013 U.S. sales of 105,563 units, a decrease of 9.9 percent compared with September 2012 (a decrease of 2.1 percent based on the Daily Selling Rate (DSR*)), while year-to-date sales remain up 7.9 percent over 2012. Reflecting Honda's consistent focus on retail sales, the Honda brand posted September 2013 sales of 93,915 units, a decrease of 8.7 percent compared with September 2012 (a decrease of 0.7 percent based on the DSR). Acura U.S. September sales of 11,648 units decreased 18.9 percent compared with September 2012 (a decrease of 11.9 percent based on the DSR).

Honda

Strong sales of the Accord continue, up 13.8 percent year to date, on sales of 25,176 units in September
Honda light truck sales are up 7.8 percent year to date compared to 2012 helped by the Ridgeline, which tallied a 7th straight month of sales gains in September, up 9.9 percent compared to 2012
Solid September sales of 22,983 units keep Civic up 8.3 percent year to date and 6.7 percent compared with last September

"Even as we catch our breath from all-time record August sales and with 2 fewer selling days this month, the Honda brand continues on a strong pace for the year," said John Mendel, executive vice president of sales at American Honda. "The already strong appeal of the Accord lineup will grow even greater with the launch late this month of the 2014 Accord Hybrid, which delivers 50 mpg1 city EPA-rated fuel economy."

Acura

Acura light truck sales including the all-new 2014 MDX and 2014 RDX are up 16.2 percent year to date compared to this point in 2012
RDX sets 17th successive monthly record, with sales of 3,022 units
MDX remained the top selling Acura model in September, with sales of 4,539 units

neuronbob

You may be right, Keith, but I sure hope you aren't. As an Acuraphile, I'd love to see this car succeed.

311 this month is what I'd expect for typically slow September.