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Is the RLX a failure?

 
Old 02-06-2013, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocket_man View Post

The tougher sale for Acura will come with the TLX. Assuming a feature set at least as good as the Accord Touring, and a higher level of fit and finish with the same warranty as the RLX, who is going to buy the RLX then? It will be hard enough for the TLX to compete with the Accord, so they can't price it at too much of a premium. That will leave a large gap up to the RLX. Only the SH-SH-AWD will offer a compelling feature on the RLX but that will be a premium price. And I bet that will find its way to the TLX eventually.

The RLX is a nice car, there is just no compelling reason to buy it at that price.
Fully agree on this. Assuming the TSX + TL = TLX they have a $15K price spread to fill and they need to better the Accord by a decent amount otherwise the warranty is the oly difference. I can't see them leaving out AWD of some type, I just hope they don't just put basic AWD like the RDX, the TLX needs to offer SH-AWD, if not the Sport Hybrid AWD. Problem is, if we assume the Sport Hybrid is more costly than standard SH-AWD and they don't want to overlap the RLX much then the TLX loaded needs to top out not far from where it is now, say $48K MAX. How do you differentiate the TLX from and Accord and not eat RLX sales, or decontent the car to turn off the TL loyalists? And you ahve all the competition in that class. I guess you can leave off Krell, assuming they use the newer ELS that would not be a big deal, but while I love the current ELS, they need to step it up a notch. Competition is great for us consumers, but Acura is at an interesting inflection point. With TSX and TL sales in the tank they need the TLX to be more than a home run, they need a grand slam and they need it soon with the new IS and Q50 coming in this summer, even the new MB CLA and ATS all will want to kill the TLX.

My issue will be that had Acura stuck to its normal routine the TLX would be shown in New York in April and released over the summer. With all the buzz that it is pushed until next January with a March 14 release means I am out of my lease by September, even if they let me extend I doubt they will let me extend 6 months. The RLX does not appeal to me in pics, the TLX is an unknown, so I can either opt for something else or jump on a 13 TL AWD which is being heavily discounted right now and drive it for 2 years then try and switch out to a TLX.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Rocket_man View Post
It is not about whether $50K is too much to spend on a car. I'm sure there are cars where the market supports that kind of price. I just don't think this RLX will be supported at that price in the market. If you gave $50K to everyone who walked into that autoshow and told them they could buy any car they wanted, after looking at what their money could buy, I doubt many if any would have picked the RLX. $50K can buy you a lot of car.
ur confusing $50k cash price with subsidized leases that BMW and Lexus gives.

If you want to compare the top of the line Accord to this RLX-Navi they honestly don't compare well. Just look at the two pictures you posted. Would a consumer get the impression that one was worth $16K more than the other? Probably not.
probably yes. The design is more impressive than Accord. music system is more upgraded. NVH levels will be far better as it has noise reduction rims and thicker glass.

They have similar interior space and similar features.
Lexus ES350 is no less quieter and less spacious than Lexus LS. and look no worse.
The RLX has PAWS but millions of cars are sold around the world every year that don't seem to need rear wheel steering so that is not going to be a compelling feature.
THere is millions of cars without DI V6 engine and LED lights standard. PAWS will greatly differentitate it from Accord in handling along with bigger brakes, wider tires handling. This is car designed for larger wheels. one test drive against Accord is enough.
Is the RLX a nicer car? Sure it is, but not by as much as the price is asking. In the end the market will decide. As for the two vehicles you picked, the 5-series outsells the RL 100 to 1 and the GS about 50 to 1 (the ES is about 100:1).
These are lower end fuel efficient models. Compare AWD vs AWD sales in V6.
Even the 7-series which is beyond the RLX's class outsells it 10 to 1. So even at discounted prices the market does not support the RL's price. I don't think the RLX will change that ratio by much. Sure there will be a few who will like the car enough to buy it. There might be some excitement early on for the car, but I bet that will die off quickly. If you shop around your $50K you'll find a lot of cars that offer a lot more value.
why ur comparing 8 years old RL with new BMW 7 that is constantly upgraded.
As for resale value... ask anyone with an RL about that. Or just ask KBB.com. After 2 years the RL only retained 50% of its value while the older 2012 Accord retained 59%. I suspect the new one will be at least as good if not better.
show me 2010 RL that sells for $25k anywhere unless it is accident or very high mileage. I will show you dozens of BMW. Accord V6 does not hold value as much as Acura. infact dealers rarely carry Accord touring V6.

The tougher sale for Acura will come with the TLX. Assuming a feature set at least as good as the Accord Touring, and a higher level of fit and finish with the same warranty as the RLX, who is going to buy the RLX then? It will be hard enough for the TLX to compete with the Accord, so they can't price it at too much of a premium. That will leave a large gap up to the RLX. Only the SH-SH-AWD will offer a compelling feature on the RLX but that will be a premium price. And I bet that will find its way to the TLX eventually.
TLX will be much smaller car and will come way later by that time RLX will be ready for MMC. and TLX will not be much cheaper. V6 models will be likely priced above $40k. much more than Accord.
The RLX is a nice car, there is just no compelling reason to buy it at that price.
It is the most compelling car for this price. where in world you can find 310bhp that give you 31mpg (real value will be higher) on standard 18inch rims with the best handling that does not need harsh ride of sport suspension or fuel penalty of AWD or extra wide rear tires. with standard ELS 14 speaker the very best in its price range. Only expensive B&O options will be better. not the standard that u get on BMW/Lexus.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
Fully agree on this. Assuming the TSX + TL = TLX they have a $15K price spread to fill and they need to better the Accord by a decent amount otherwise the warranty is the oly difference. I can't see them leaving out AWD of some type, I just hope they don't just put basic AWD like the RDX, the TLX needs to offer SH-AWD, if not the Sport Hybrid AWD. Problem is, if we assume the Sport Hybrid is more costly than standard SH-AWD and they don't want to overlap the RLX much then the TLX loaded needs to top out not far from where it is now, say $48K MAX. How do you differentiate the TLX from and Accord and not eat RLX sales, or decontent the car to turn off the TL loyalists? And you ahve all the competition in that class. I guess you can leave off Krell, assuming they use the newer ELS that would not be a big deal, but while I love the current ELS, they need to step it up a notch. Competition is great for us consumers, but Acura is at an interesting inflection point. With TSX and TL sales in the tank they need the TLX to be more than a home run, they need a grand slam and they need it soon with the new IS and Q50 coming in this summer, even the new MB CLA and ATS all will want to kill the TLX.

My issue will be that had Acura stuck to its normal routine the TLX would be shown in New York in April and released over the summer. With all the buzz that it is pushed until next January with a March 14 release means I am out of my lease by September, even if they let me extend I doubt they will let me extend 6 months. The RLX does not appeal to me in pics, the TLX is an unknown, so I can either opt for something else or jump on a 13 TL AWD which is being heavily discounted right now and drive it for 2 years then try and switch out to a TLX.
Honda has put themselves in a pickle, but in the end they will have to support the TLX over the RLX since of the two it will be the only one making money for Acura. But if they don't get this car out before next year it might be a hard year for the TL and TSX. Yes a good buying opportunity and you can wait out the early 1st year issues with the TLX.

I think the price on the SH-SH-AWD will be so high that it will sell very few. You aren't going to buy a $65K+ car for the gas mileage. And there are other AWD cars in that price range that will be more appealing. They will have to leave AWD in the TLX as an option. But it may be the simplified version like the RDX to reduce costs and increase FE. Here in TX I don't need it so no big deal for me. I'm just hoping they package the car with the features I want or Acura will not have anything in their line up for me.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocket_man View Post
They will have to leave AWD in the TLX as an option. But it may be the simplified version like the RDX to reduce costs and increase FE. Here in TX I don't need it so no big deal for me. I'm just hoping they package the car with the features I want or Acura will not have anything in their line up for me.
If they do the RDX path in the TLX and use basic AWD they will only sell AWD TLX in the north, there are people that want that car because of the handling, I loved the handling of the SH-AWD. If the TLX is just basic AWD then I think Acura days are over as you can get basic AWD from anyone. I am in Georgia and the SH-AWD TL when it came out was rare, but now you have dealers caring 5-6 of them.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:10 AM
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To follow up on the Super Bowl Ad miss, this is interesting:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/07/auto...html?iid=HP_LN

The CLA commercial made the CLA the most researched car on the web Monday. And they get slammed because car is not out until September! As I said, if Acura had a decent marketing firm and they pulled the car to a 2.15 launch they could have generated some buzz from a Super Bowl ad and generated traffic to the dealers.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
To follow up on the Super Bowl Ad miss, this is interesting:

http://money.cnn.com/2013/02/07/auto...html?iid=HP_LN

The CLA commercial made the CLA the most researched car on the web Monday. And they get slammed because car is not out until September! As I said, if Acura had a decent marketing firm and they pulled the car to a 2.15 launch they could have generated some buzz from a Super Bowl ad and generated traffic to the dealers.
It looks like RLX advertising will coincide with the availability of the car. Expect heavy rotation during NBA finals and March Madness
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:29 PM
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^^^
Yeah but more people watch the Super Bowl and some watch it for the commercials, not DVR skipping them.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:27 PM
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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
^^^
Yeah but more people watch the Super Bowl and some watch it for the commercials, not DVR skipping them.
There's no denying that, but in the end it's their money to spend or not spend. They probably decided that the Super Bowl isn't worth the money.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:52 PM
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Mainstream TV advertising isn't really worth as much as the cost anymore, especially with alternative, more focused methods of advertising. Oh well.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Colin View Post
There's no denying that, but in the end it's their money to spend or not spend. They probably decided that the Super Bowl isn't worth the money.
With a 30 sec Superbowl add this year costing about $3.8M that is a ton of money for a low volume car. Acura does need to advertise their brand but that is a lot of money.
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Old 02-08-2013, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Rocket_man View Post
With a 30 sec Superbowl add this year costing about $3.8M that is a ton of money for a low volume car. Acura does need to advertise their brand but that is a lot of money.
Well they felt it was worth the $3.5M they paid last year to show off a NSX that was still 2 years out.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:33 PM
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I seem to recall reading/hearing that at the time they felt the ad was important because the brand had been so quiet with the events of 2009-2011 and that since there hadn't been a significant introduction since 2008 and some excitement was necessary. So it is likely that A) they didn't get their money's worth or B) it accomplished what they wanted and it wasn't necessary again. Either way, in the entire company history it was the first ever so (IMO) it's not as if there was a tradition of ads and this year was the first without one.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by KeithL View Post
Well they felt it was worth the $3.5M they paid last year to show off a NSX that was still 2 years out.
That was also an unusual ad because Acura never advertises future cars. At least not that far in advance. Now if they spent $3.8M this year advertising a future TLX that might have been money better spent. Something to keep TL and TSX owners hanging on until that car comes out.
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