GoHawks

Really stop, you're killing me

We are debating the RLX and 5 series and now you are bringing in the ZDX and the Accord. You're all over the place.

SSFTSX

2012 Acura RL is basically 2004 design with AWD setup and even than it has better handling on all season setup.
New RLX have interior space of BMW 7 series (larger internal volume requires even more robust and strong materials). and safety rating is expected to be equal or better than Honda Accord. which is already better than all BMWs. and this with weight of 3900lbs.

GoHawks

These pictures are not from Acura's website therefore they are not reliable.

GoHawks

Really?

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articl...ld-test-center

A scant 35 miles south of the Artic Circle rests the small Swedish town of Arjeplog, where hundreds of test engineers from dozens of the world’s automakers converge to test whether their vehicles can withstand the rigors of this artic Mecca. After spending more than 30 years testing its vehicles in four different locations in this regions of the world, German luxury carmaker BMW has selected Arjeplog as the locale for its new cold weather testing facility, marking a consolidation of cold weather testing for future BMW, MINI and Rolls-Royce vehicles into one facility. “We have been conducting cold weather tests at facilities that were as much as 435 miles apart from one another and that has created a number of challenges, not the least of which was the logistics of moving vehicles and personnel from one location to another,” said Dieter Stolt, head of vehicle testing for BMW Group. “Starting in March [2006], we have consolidated that down to one facility where we can have up to 200 engineers working together.” BMW made the decision to build its $19-million complex in June 2004 and within 10 months the construction of the three test buildings and multiple tracks was completed. The tracks include a number of overland circuits—some of which are heated and cooled via underground hot- and cold-water delivery systems—complete with uphill gradients, dynamic driving areas and a special “chessboard” course with asphalt and ice at alternating intervals to test all-wheel drive and braking systems in any number of stop and launch scenarios.

Stolt said BMW selected Arjeplog because of its consistent weather patterns. Temperatures average -10°C from November until the end of April, with nightly low temperatures falling to as much as -40°C. Additionally, the vast number of lakes in the area provide ideal for testing handling in low grip situations. BMW’s facility is located directly adjacent to Kakel Lake, where engineers set up numerous courses to run vehicles directly on the iced surface. To assure the quality of the iced surface, BMW even hires helicopters to fly at low altitudes over the lake to remove any snow from the surface, allowing the ice to achieve a thicker density while preventing the snow from forming an insulating layer above the ice. As if that isn’t bizarre enough, there are five “icemakers” on staff at the facility whose sole responsibility is to assure that the ice is groomed just right for the various tests conducted on the lake. Another key factor used in selecting Arjeplog is the low number of full-time inhabitants, where just 3,300 people reside in an area the size of the entire country of Belgium. The sparseness of the population helps to reduce the potential of spy photographers descending onto the town without getting noticed.

The Arjeplog facility will play a crucial role in BMW’s plans to develop next-generation all-wheel-drive systems, along with assuring the automaker’s Integrated Chassis Management (ICM) initiative takes root. Under the guise of ICM, BMW engineers focus on making sure vehicle stability and safety systems work in concert with one another seamlessly. As BMW introduces a number of advanced safety systems on its vehicles, including Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) and xDrive all-wheel-drive, engineers will be tasked with making sure the systems improve the responsiveness and handling of vehicles, as opposed to becoming an intrusive nanny trying to spoil the experience. That doesn’t mean BMW plans to give up on its treasured standard rear-drive configuration, it just wants to make its vehicles more enjoyable for drivers at all levels.

SSFTSX

Is there any mention of tires or sport package?. or what happened to car after testing is done. and do they manufacturing capability to implement those changes?


Germans do test there engines but not like Honda thats why they are declared the worst. These are not comparing 6 cylinder but 4 cylinder engines as Honda hardly sell V6 in UK.



http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/news/german...130500660.html
German cars 'among worst for engine failures'

GoHawks

You are all over the place on your arguments. You are also a hippocrite. You discount websites when they contradict you opinion and then use them again to try and support your arguments.



Thanks for the laughs.

getakey

why don't you guys get a room

037

I can't believe nobody had any issues with that TL eating dirty water...car seems clean otherwise...

037

I think car and driver will compare 5 series and RLX soon enough, and TL SH-AWD was already quoted running laps faster than a 335 BMW...so we know SH-AWD works.

But...let's stay on topic, whatever that topic might be. Something about RLX I think...

BDoggPrelude

Pretty sure it's an RDX.

SSFTSX

I am at the same place. I read what you provided. but it has nothing to do with any reliability or maintainance of suspension/tires.
Offcourse every manufacturer worth a 4WD system will test there vehicles during development in snow and desert.

hondamore

Amen to that brother!!

Further to the comment about SH-AWD, as a resident of the frozen north in Canada, I can tell you all that SH-AWD not only rules on the track, but totally rocks in the snow. It is the weirdest feeling - sometimes on really icy roads or snow covered ice, I swear when I start to feel my '05 RL slip off line in a turn, it feels like the car magically rotates around a fixed point in the center of the car and I'm back on line without any steering input or drama whatsoever. That stability and sensation is the reason that I am considering the SH-AWD version of the RLX despite not really being in love with the exterior design.

037

I guess that happens when you leave the club and get careless...

Andy74

I think it's a mistake to release an RLX with no SH-AWD. This new front wheel drive RL is not special in any way; I'm confused why this car is priced almost 20K higher than a V6 Accord.

dwboston

Better materials, better build quality, more technology, many more standard features, etc. If you don't see the value then just get an Accord.

And I agree it is a mistake to release the P-AWS RLX first. The SH-SH-AWD RLX should have been first. Probably a clue that Acura doesn't plan on making or selling many, especially with a $60k+ price tag.

KeithL

I wonder if they plan on moving the RLX sport hybrid down to the TLX, seems if they don't still many RLX Hybrid AWD then it is harder for them to recoup the costs. With SH-AWD they moved it into the TL, RDX, ZDX and MDX. Of course they have back tracked now on the RDX, such a shame.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Agree. The good news is that the test mule for SH SHAWD was a last generation Accord, whose platform is used by the TL. The possible bad news is that the new AWD system will require its own unique powerplant, the hybrid/gasoline setup, so I wonder if it will be compatible with a lot of Acura models. It wouldn't surprise me if the new AWD system is used only on MDX and RLX, and the TLX retains the current AWD system (which still causes me to marvel every time I take a turn/curve at speed).

BTW, you gotta love the title and tenet of this thread. No one has ever driven the car, seen a road test of one, most have not even seen the RLX in person and not one has been offered for sale, yet we have all variety of opinions as to whether it is "a failure." LOL.

01luigi

I agree. Though I have to add that everyone who has driven the prototype of this car (P-AWS, SH-SH AWD) speak only of how great it drives. Many people who have seen it in person also comment that it looks a lot better in person and that it does have a presence. If the car doesn't sell well then its not because it isn't a great car or that it is overpriced, it is priced similar to Infiniti's M and Lexus' GS with more features. I'd agree that they probably couldn't put the hybrid system in the TLX but itd still be great if the original SH-AWD lived on.

hondamore

I can definitely see the new hybrid SHAWD technology filtering down to the MDX. It's Acura's real sales king and the technology would help it stay that way. Who wouldn't get excited about a "large" SUV that gets great gas mileage driving the kids around town and is really fun to drive?

Rocket_man

I've sat in the new RLX and it does not feel like a $50K car. Does it have better materials than an Accord? Marginally yes. Better build quality. Not so sure, the RLX I saw had a gap in the lower console. I think it might have been from someone hitting it, but I was loose and I could see the trim tabs in the gap. Many more standard features? Like PAWS? Ok, what else?

You say "If you don't like it get an Accord" You could have said, "You can get two Accords for the price of this car" then I'd say there is no doubt which is better.

In Jan Acura sold 13 RL's and 24,000 Accords. Almost 2,000 to 1. I don't think they will sell many more RLX's when it is released.

I hope they do better with the TLX.

JM2010 SH-AWD

I have to disagree with your thougths about the RLX's interior. I thought it was especially nice. The leather was very smooth and soft. Everything was positioned right where you'd want it. No gaps, flaws, etc. Lots of the expected features at this price range. Additionally, as I posted elsewhere on the forum, I was able to move straight from sitting in an A6 to the RLX, as they were located close to one another at the auto show. In my opinion, the RLX more than holds its own against the A6, outside and inside. (Because we do not have access to a drive or to any reviews yet, I have no opinion about how it will drive, but those who drove the mules reported that P-AWS and especially the new eSH-AWD system work very well).

dwboston

Congratulations - you sat in an auto show car that gets beat up by everyone sitting in it. If you don't think the RLX interior is nicer than an Accord, then stick with Accords. Acura sold 13 RL's in January because the car was never refreshed for 2013, not marketed, and they didn't build any. If your goal is touting Accords, you're probably in the wrong forum.

BDoggPrelude

It's been said many time before, a big part of the RLX's success or failure is going to come down to Acura's marketing strategy. The 2nd gen RL had no marketing campaign whatsoever. IMO, we will see how serious Acura is about the RLX in a few hours. The RLX will be arriving at dealerships within the next couple of weeks. If there is no RLX commercial during the Super Bowl I think we can assume Acura is not serious about this car. There was a commercial for the new NSX last year and that car is still in the development stages and won't be released for quite some time.

Colin

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. I'm of the opinion that a Timex and Rolex both tell me the same time. They both sell well and each person has a reason why they choose one or the other.

Colin

And I would add that each person is 100% sure that they made the "right choice" and that the other guy is an idiot.

KeithL

Even with heavy marketing the car has an uphill battle. I give Acura credit for trying, but they need something that catches the eye, sure then LED headlights are nice, but the styling is not going to make people do a double take or say wow what is that... At least that is my opinion.

Rocket_man

Apparently DW you can't read. I did say the interior was better, but not worthy of a $50K car. BTW, have you seen it in person? At least my opinion is based on first hand experience. I look forward to your first post with your new RLX. You can help add to the '13' number. The point I was making, is that while the RLX is a very nice car, it is not worth 2 Accords. I still stand by my opinion. When you buy your RLX you will of course have another opinion.

dwboston

Keep hanging your hat on the "13" RL's sold. A leftover 2012 model car with no marketing. Your opinion means nothing to me, so stand by it all you want. Enjoy your Accord. Buy two of them. I'll let you know if I end up with the RLX or the A6.

BDoggPrelude

No RLX Super Bowl commercial. Pretty huge missed opportunity if you ask me. Makes me doubt Acura's marketing plans for this car.

pumafide

well put!!

pumafide

i would!!! LoL

pumafide

true that!!

jhr3uva90

Super Bowl ads are ridiculously expensive, especially for a car that is niche product. I would not recommend Acura advertise the RLX at the Super Bowl.

Rocket_man

Well at least we can agree on one thing. Good luck. I suspect between the two the A6 will win.

SSFTSX

$50k is not alot of money for this size and power of car.
$50k only get you 528I with 17inch rims or GS350. Most of Accords sold are not V6 touring. You saw $50k car with 18inch rims. Accord touring is $34k. so it is $16k difference. that give you longer warranty, better resale values, (higher trime Accord dont hold value as well), larger quieter rim and tires combo. (that alone is $2k), more advanced navigation system, powerfull engine. 310 vs 278 bhp. unique LED lights, more comfortable ride due longer wheel base, , upgraded music system,

KeithL

But MB showed the CLA and that is not out until summer and the ad was actually good, True the ad time is expensive, but if done well you can grab some attention and get noticed and with the car hitting dealerships in 2 weeks I also agree it was a missed opportunity. As previously mentioned they showed the NSX last year and the damn car is still a year away!

jhr3uva90

Again, is it worth the cost? Maybe Acura discovered that last year's Super Bowl ad was not a very prudent use of their money.

BDoggPrelude

I would 100% agree that Acura found that particular Super Bowl ad to be a complete waste of their money. Why on earth would you waste millions of dollars with an ad for a car that is not even going to be on the market for 2-3 years? By the time the NSX comes out the average consumer will not even be able to remember who played in Super Bowl XLVI, much less the car in that commercial. But spending millions on an ad that is going to reach the 3rd largest viewing audience in the history of television to promote a car that is coming out in a few weeks seemed like an obvious first step in marketing to me. I think everybody here can agree that the marketing campaign for the 2G RL was nonexistent, to say the least, and was one of the major contributing factors to its failure. Acura, in general, needs to do a better job with their marketing. I stand by my statement, not having an RLX ad during the Super Bowl was a huge mistake. I hope it is not a glimpse into the future of Acura's marketing of the RLX.

Rocket_man

It is not about whether $50K is too much to spend on a car. I'm sure there are cars where the market supports that kind of price. I just don't think this RLX will be supported at that price in the market. If you gave $50K to everyone who walked into that autoshow and told them they could buy any car they wanted, after looking at what their money could buy, I doubt many if any would have picked the RLX. $50K can buy you a lot of car.

If you want to compare the top of the line Accord to this RLX-Navi they honestly don't compare well. Just look at the two pictures you posted. Would a consumer get the impression that one was worth $16K more than the other? Probably not. They have similar interior space and similar features. The RLX has PAWS but millions of cars are sold around the world every year that don't seem to need rear wheel steering so that is not going to be a compelling feature. Is the RLX a nicer car? Sure it is, but not by as much as the price is asking. In the end the market will decide. As for the two vehicles you picked, the 5-series outsells the RL 100 to 1 and the GS about 50 to 1 (the ES is about 100:1). Even the 7-series which is beyond the RLX's class outsells it 10 to 1. So even at discounted prices the market does not support the RL's price. I don't think the RLX will change that ratio by much. Sure there will be a few who will like the car enough to buy it. There might be some excitement early on for the car, but I bet that will die off quickly. If you shop around your $50K you'll find a lot of cars that offer a lot more value.

As for resale value... ask anyone with an RL about that. Or just ask KBB.com. After 2 years the RL only retained 50% of its value while the older 2012 Accord retained 59%. I suspect the new one will be at least as good if not better.

The tougher sale for Acura will come with the TLX. Assuming a feature set at least as good as the Accord Touring, and a higher level of fit and finish with the same warranty as the RLX, who is going to buy the RLX then? It will be hard enough for the TLX to compete with the Accord, so they can't price it at too much of a premium. That will leave a large gap up to the RLX. Only the SH-SH-AWD will offer a compelling feature on the RLX but that will be a premium price. And I bet that will find its way to the TLX eventually.

The RLX is a nice car, there is just no compelling reason to buy it at that price.

KeithL

Sure with American attention span I agree for a car at that time 2 years away, but think about this. They could have released the car with a 2/15 on sale date and had a great marketing launch during the Super Bowl, my guess is price of ad per viewer reached is a good value and remember there are tons of people that watch the Super Bowl just for the ads, how many shows can say that in this age of DVR skim everything viewing.