hondamore

Outstanding performance/handling from the AWD version, reasonable (there is a word that could cause a debate for weeks) price for the AWD version and in an ideal world lose that damn beak/shield in the grill/power plenum or whatever they want to call it. Bottom line: I'm not a huge fan of the styling, but I could look past it if the performance of the new SH-AWD system delivers and the price is right.

GoHawks

If I am going to spend $50K - $60K on a car, I better damn well love (or like A LOT) the looks, and as was said, it better have decent performance.

I don't doubt the performance of the RLX, and in true Acura form it will have decent tech, but from a pure emotional standpoint, the current styling doesn't move me.

The beak not withstanding, the side view and something about how the C pillar. I know that the jelly bean styling that was big when the 2nd gen RL came out is not in fashion today, but the current design cues just doesn't flow.

getakey

+10

037

I think as far as styling, a drop and new rims can have a huge impact on a car. I couldn't stand driving my 09 RL very long before I started tweaking it and in the end it did not look half bad.

GoHawks

I agree.

KeithL

Better styling. You put the exterior of the RLX along side any other car in its class and I can't imagine any other car that is more conservative or bland, I would say the Genesis while fresh in 2009 is as bland, other than that I am struggling. I do agree with others that if you want to have luxury and go un-noticed the RLX is your car. Other than the headlights nothing is eye catching, the tail lights remind me of the out going 2012 Avalon and while Acura thinks it is cool, I prefer to see the dual exhaust tips. Even Lexus is sporting up their look and leaving the bland look.

KeithL

Agreed.

hondamore

If we are trying to pinpoint particular areas of the exterior look that we don't like:
- the beak/shield I've never liked
- I agree with other posters and dislike the C-pillar/back of the rear door area
- I don't like the lower part of the front bumper/front spoiler area
I must qualify my comments by stating that my perception of the RLX styling is purely based upon pictures online as I have not yet seen the RLX in person. I'll also add that my motivation for this post is the misguided hope that Acura execs read these forums and will tweak the RLX design before the SH-AWD version comes out.

BDoggPrelude

It will have to provide everything my current RL gives me. Luxury, reliability, top notch build quality, enough performance that I can have some fun, enough features to satisfy my needs, comfort for my family (only 3 of us so far), enough performance to let me have some fun when I want to and styling that keeps me happy. I would assume it's going to meet all of those points except maybe the styling. I'm not going to even pretend like the 2nd gen RL is the best looking sedan on the road. It too has fairly basic, subtle styling...but it's not overly bland, the styling has aged well and there's nothing offensive about it. I don't know that I can say the same for the RLX.

Here's the thing though, I'm not the one that will be buying this car new. I don't have $60-$70k for a brand new RLX SH-SH-AWD. I am not Acura's target consumer. If I were the type of person that was going to spend that kind of money on a new car the RLX probably would not be on my list. Since I would be buying it secondhand with little to no warranty left the reliability factor is huge for me. If I had $70k to spend on a new car that aspect would probably be a much smaller piece to the puzzle, if it were a piece at all. I think that if I were buying a new car in this price range I would probably buy a BMW 5-series.

SSFTSX

I dont see how BMW has better styling. They are the blandest vehicles withotu sport kit. 3/5/7 all identical. and so many 3 that 5 does not look special.






here is another bland car on show floor.










It has unique rear and front lights. This car will stand out among the crowd.

BDoggPrelude

I like the rear, I'm just not fond of the front styling and side profile. I'm waiting to see one on real life though. I also don't understand why Acura has such a problem giving cars that hunkered down stance. Everything Acura makes just looks like it needs to be dropped. I don't know if it's too much gap in the fenders, rounded off bumpers and sideskirts or if the cars just ride higher than most luxury sedans but it seems like all of Acura's recent cars look way to high off the ground.

SSFTSX

Front profile has to take into consideration aerodynamic efficieny and safety. so there is not much tinkering that can be done. . Car is designed from ground up to handle 19 inch rims not just optional sport package rims.
we have to wait for other colors

There is sport button in the console. beside the shift knob.

hondamore

Looking at the pictures of the Bimmer and the Lexus supplied by SSFTSX, it is apparent that the aerodynamic shape/slope of the rear window has resulted in many sedans having the same C-pillar/D-pillar treatment that I dislike in the RLX. I'll no longer penalize the RLX for this feature but continue to be disappointed that Acura didn't come up with a clever, more attractive solution. Apparently fuel economy goals have resulted in luxury sedans having as much variety in design as Nascar.

037

currently 20 F in the North East, I can't push the go pedal past half without getting tire spin at any speed, I miss SH-AWD

jhr3uva90

For me, it comes down to price. I hope to hold on to my 2005 RL for a while longer (I got it March 2005). If I can get the RLX brand new at invoice, then I will greatly consider it. Back in 2005 I tested out the 5-Series BMW, Infiniti M, Lexus GS and Acura RL. I like BMW, but I don't like how they nickel and dime on every tech feature, so I eliminated them. Every time Lexus releases a new generation of GS, they claim it is sporty, but the GS at that time wasn't really, so I eliminated that one. It came down to the Infiniti M and the Acura RL. I got a lower price on the RL plus a better trade in deal on my Acura CL, so I went with the RL. Maybe history will repeat itself with the RLX.

Glashub

Okay, so the 4G TL is universally slammed as too much of an outlier. Too edgy, to radical. The new Lexus...much the same. The RLX too conservative.

After reading feedback on their designs, I'd bet Acura designers need meds or are tempted to commit hari-kari.

SSFTSX

when you consider price. dont consider acq price only but long term brakes/tires/suspension, engine maintainance and above all depreciation.

suppose u buy $60k RLX PAWS at $55k with $60k out the door price. what will be its value after 7 or 8 years. I bet it will hold better than previous RL due better fuel economic. for 8 years driving RLX will need one extra set of tires and one time brake job. I am on my 5th year without any brake work in TSX.
Now if you BMW 535 M sport package with B&O Audio, all around parking sensors, ventilated seats, Adoptive cruise etc etc. (Only sport package can match RLX PAWS handling) and loaded similary like RL advance. it is going to cost $72k before taxes. such configuration will not be available in lots so u to build to order so discount will not be that big.
you will get 4 year manitainance. let say you buy $2K 6 year maintainance package. you will still need to replace those RFT tires every 3 year the most. It willl end up costing $80k with taxes, long term maintainance package etc. so there is $20k price difference right out the door.
now that $80k car will be less than $10k after 7 years assuming you didnot spend another fortune after 6 year contracts are finsihed on BMW.. and after 7 years this RLX will still be upto $20k. RLX FWD will have long term premium over RL SH-AWD due to better fuel economic.

so the actual gap maybe as large as $35k between BMW 5 and RLX.

Now less do lease comparision. You will not get lease less than $800 after tax a month. with atleast $5k down payment for configuration of BMW. Just lease pmt and down pmt will equal to $35k after 3 years.
for 7 or 8 years. ur looking at blowing $80k on leasing two times a BMW.


This $540 lease per month 535 is before tax and with out such customized vehicle.
In my book RLX FWD is much faster car than BMW 535 (which is slower than Accord touring despite being on all season setup). Accord does not have RLX like best in class aerodynamics or DI engine and still it is faster than BMW 535.


In order to pull 0.87g BMW 535 has be equiped with 275/35/19 tires in rear. such tire is i doubt have more than 1 year of life span. so u will be replacing tires 8 times in 8 years.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...i-lt-final.pdf

There is huge technological and manufacturing gap between Honda and BMW for those who can understand it.

037

but in the end, he would be driving a BMW, a status symbol for many. He would buy a much less loaded BMW for the same price as RLX and only he would know that's he's missing all the goodies.

Everyone in the outside world will see him in a BMW. To some people that is the only thing that matters.

jhr3uva90

I agree. I believe BMW and Mercedes dominate this segment because they are status symbols. Why buy a $50,000 car if you can't let the whole world know it is a $50,000 car?

GoHawks

The beak is what was out there with the TL. I like the rest of the car.

GoHawks

Honda has already introduced Direct Injection in the Honda line-up so it is not exclusive to Acura or the RLX.

GoHawks

As for comparison about reliability, ther is no question that the Acura will have be cheaper to own in the long term. The issue is that most people who but BMWs and Mercs lease their cars.

I have an X5 and frequent the Bimmerfest forum. The discussion about reliability came up there. Even among BMW owners they will acknowledge that an Acura will be more reliable, but since most of those folks will lease, they typically will be dumping the car before the warranty and maintenance expires.

Last Sept I bought my first ever BMW. A CPO 2011 BMW X5. The free maintenance is pretty comprehensive and also covers brakes. BMW doesn't call for oil changes for 12k - 15k miles. I'm not sure i am comfortable waiting that long, I can pay for one in between at a cost of $125 that includes pure synthetic.

My point is that most of those customers really don't own those cars past warranty and maintenance windows, so out of pocket expense for repairs and maintenance isn't a big concern.

BDoggPrelude

Agreed. Kind of goes back to what I said about what the new car buyer is looking for compared to what the used car buyer is looking for. The person that buys the car brand new at $60k+ is not as worried about reliability and maintenance costs. First off, the car is going to be covered under a full bumper to bumper warranty for the majority of, if not the entire time they own or lease the vehicle. When it comes to buying things like brakes and tires, they also tend to have a lot more money in the wallet to cover those extra costs.

The secondhand buyer is typically the one that is more conscious about the reliability and overall ownership costs. If something breaks there is a good chance it will not be covered under a warranty and will be money out of their pocket. A $1,000 set of tires is also usually a much bigger expense to somebody that buys a used car for half to 2/3rds of the original purchase price of these vehicles. For the person that spends $60k+ to buy a higher end car brand new, $1,000 is probably nowhere near as much of a big ticket item.

Obviously, the secondhand RLX owner has nothing to do with how many of these vehicles are going to be sold. What the secondhand buyer, (most of us on this forum), have to say about this car is completely irrelevant. Acura is going to have to come up with a pretty good marketing scheme to convince people to buy this car over a 5-Series if you ask me. I think the BMW probably checks a lot more boxes on the list of the prospective buyer looking to spend between $60k and $70k on a new car. Honestly, a very large majority of people that spend that kind of money are going to be looking for the car that is the biggest status symbol and the RLX is going to be in last place in that group of cars.

SSFTSX

Most of advantageous leases are on standardized vehicles on lots. Not some thing exclusive like 19inch rims, M sport, adoptive crusie control, ventilated seats and B&O audio in one six cylinder car. This kind of loaded vehicles will likely be V8.
even with leases u still need to replace worn out RFT tires and has significant acq costs in down pmt for lease.

Just one BMW dealer in bayarea has 186 used BMW on the lot. These are as much used BMW at one dealer as all Acura dealers in bayarea.

http://www.peterpanbmw.com/used-cars.aspx


$70k but it is still missing $4.5k B&O music & active cruise control

http://mountainview.bmwofmountainvie...-Car/13702421/

Almost the same configuration at $70k but still no B&O system & active cruise control.
http://www.peterpanbmw.com/detail-20...w-9229711.html

so even these big dealerships carry only 1 vehicle in black or white and that is not loaded like RL advance.

SSFTSX

that engine is not with premium fuel. Acura will be the first to introduced DI with 6 cylinder premium fuel.

SSFTSX

M sport package tires are $1650 a tire rack. add taxes, installation and alignment cost. ur looking at $2400 for tire replacement once in 2 year if not every year.
BMW 5 series is such dog in handling that it is very doubtfull it can compete with RLX PAWS without this package.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...&filterType=oe

GoHawks

It's still a direct injected engine, it's just tuned to run on premium (timing, compression, etc.).

Also requiring premium fuel isn't always a selling point.

I have a Mustang that originally only required regular fuel. I've reflashed the ECU with a tune. The tune (firmware) alone added about 12hp without modifying hardware, although now it requires premium.

SSFTSX

535 has proven slower than Honda Accord. and handling even sport package is hardly 2% better. putting low profile and wide tires on Accord and it will handle better. Accord is quieter and is TSP+ safety rating. that none of BMW or Lexus can boost.



http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/5-series/...st-specs3.html

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/t...ma-3-5-sl.html

SSFTSX

Honda use of premium fuel make huge difference. Previous Accord EX has 190bhp engine and was 200lbs lighter than TSX with 201bhp engine.
5speed auto vs 5speed auto TSX feels alot faster. it is like a different engine.
I think RLX premiumfuel is advantage. The engine will be alot more efficient at higher speed. even 35+mpg on freeway possible.

BDoggPrelude

$750 for taxes, install and alignment? Any local tire shop will match TireRack's shipped price on the tires. Add $16/tire for install, a few bucks for disposal and environmental fees and a $70 alignment and you're still below $2k. But let's be fair here, that is for the staggered 19" wheel/tire setup. With the regular Sport package the tires are $200 cheaper. With the Base 18" package you can get them for $500 less. The 245/40R19 98W Michelin Primacy MXM4's that come on the RLX are on TireRack for $1316+taxes, shipping, install and alignment. That's only about $100 less than the 19" non-staggered runflats for the Bimmer.

You say it will take the M-Sport package for the 5-Series to outhandle the RLX with P-AWS? That's laughable. The BMW 5-Series is pretty well regarded as the best handling car in its class right now and as far back as I can remember. I don't think the FWD RLX is going to even come close, even with its fancy P-AWS system. I can find you tons of links to comparison tests over the years between the Acura RL SH-AWD and the BMW 5-Series. The 5-Series always comes out on top because of its driving dynamics. Of course, those links are all going to be from, "unreliable and unofficial" companies that know a lot less about the automotive world than you. There's absolutely no way the base RLX turning just the front wheels is going to even come close to competing in the handling department with even a base model 5-Series.

SSFTSX

5 series always come on top with Max summer performance tires and sport suspension. ur living in past. Current BMW is heavier vehicle and it eats tires. see C&D long term test.
Alginment at BMW dealer is $250. add taxes and shiping. and $100 for install ur well above $2K.and without these tires. there is no way BMW is going to handle better than RLX FWD.
see the Honda Accord comparision. which only 215 tire size and slolam run is so close to BMW 535 that has 275 tire in rear.

Michellen will give you 3 to 4 years of life as they are likely to be longer life all season tires.

you can put $780 Hankook with 280AAA. or $1200 Pilot Super Sport 300AAA. or cheaper $700 sumitomo HTR Z III.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSe...40&diameter=19

BMW has problem with weight and still it is not safe as Accord. RLX is designed for 19inch rims.

SSFTSX

ZDX does not have problem with 19inch.and simply no compromise on ride or its off road ability. Acura vehicles are designed for much higher quality and reliability standards. you to look skin deep and they always shine in long term test.

Rocketsfan

I think you have it backwards. I bet Acura designers think the people on this board need meds or to commit hari kari. Lol.

GoHawks

Since when do they charge shipping for a wheel alignment. LOL

You're clueless posts get more and more entertaining, and there you go with comparing apples and oranges again. The discussion is on the 5 series and the RLX, and now you bring the ZDX into the conversation.

I was going to put you on ignore, but your clueless posts are getting funnier and funnier.

SSFTSX

That $1658 price in tire rack is without shipping and tax charges. Add 250 for it. and ur at 1858 and than 250 for alignment and 100 for installation. it is $2250. you cannot put this thing below $2k price. and you have to do it every year.

ZDX showing the quality of implementation 19 inch rims and its ride.

BDoggPrelude

SSFTSX, it doesn't say anywhere on BMW's website that the 5-series has problems with tire wear so that must not be true. You keep pulling up quotes from "unreliable and unofficial" auto blogs that don't know anything about cars.

BTW, BMW's don't go through tires quickly because of their weight. It has to do with their aggressive factory alignment. Lots of negative camber and toe in creates great handling but is not so great for tires.

GoHawks

This guy cracks me up.

My wife's X5 has 19" wheels too. What's your point?

SSFTSX

No one stop vehicles from long term testing. Testing of vehicle is not the same thing like designing and manufacturing a vehicle.
you can see pix gallery in snow.
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews...ate/photos/#10



BMW handling?. where is that evidence except for extra wide 275 tires. Honda Accord achived 95% of BMW 535 handling with 215 size tire.

GoHawks

BTW.

Curb weights

2012 Acura RL 4,112 lbs
2012 BMW 535i 4,090 lbs

SSFTSX

It is not subjected to harsh track, snow and mud testing by multiple drivers like ZDX by automobile long term team.