buzzmag

RLX with Advance Package $60,450!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! not including AWD. My wife's 2013 MB E350 4Matic with a similar package topped at $62,000. How is Acura going to sell this second generation RL look-a-like at something probably close to $65,000?

I'm a big RL fan but I don't see it competing with MB, BMW, Lexus or Infiniti at this price level. You can laugh but if Hyundai added AWD to the Genesis the RLX would die.

BDoggPrelude

This has been heavily discussed back and forth in this thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-rlx-2013-412/%2A%2Aofficial-rlx-thread%2A%2A-update-p-14-prod-car-debut-la-11-28-a-852173/

Ken1997TL

Have you driven the RLX? I'm guessing no.

KeithL

As discussed in other threads as well, but IMO if you really check ALL the same options and get the cars as identical as possible the MB as well as Audi and BMW will be $5K+ higher.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Uh...you're crazy. With the same options, the MB prices out at $67,855.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Yea if you actually go to MB website and price out a E350 4matic and have it equipped like the RLX Advance, you are looking at $70k.

MSRP (Standard Features)$51,000*
Exterior: Diamond White Metallic $1,515
18-inch split 5-spoke alloy wheels $0
Interior: Natural Beige / Black Leather $1,620
Trim: Burl Walnut Wood Trim $0$8,700
Sport Styling Package $0
Premium 2 Package $6,450
19-inch twin 5-spoke wheels $2,250
Premium 1 Package Included with package
Heated & Active Ventilated Front Seats $450
Power Tilt/Sliding Panorama Sunroof $1,090
KEYLESS GO Included
Driver Assistance Package $2,950
PARKTRONIC with Advanced Parking Guidance $970
Rear Side-Impact Airbags $420
Transportation Charge $905

4matic is an additional $2500, and all it is is a basic AWD system, nothing else. It's there to enhance traction.

The AWD system in the RLX however, is a lot more involved. It's an AWD system, it can do torque vectoring, it can provide negative torque to the inside wheel, it's a hybrid system that adds extra power while saving you fuel, it not only improves traction, but it also enhances handling. I don't think it's fair to simply compare the AWD RLX to a E350 AWD. You will need to be comparing the RLX AWD to at least the 329hp E400 hybrid, or even the 402hp E550 4matic. Those start at $56k and $60k respectively. Even then, those don't come close to the EPA ratings of the RLX AWD.

dzionny_dzionassi

But your wife did not get reliability. Probobly she will be stuck on higways shoulder in a year or two. For my family only Lexus-Toyota or Acura-Honda.
Last MB was build to last in 1993

buzzmag

And you all assume I paid sticker price for the MB. Get real. It did list for$66,500 but I got it for $62,000. Again, I'm an RL booster and driver but I think Acura's prices will scare away people who are not familiar with the car and only compare it to the high end guys.

buzzmag

Sorry, it's her third MB and never had a major problem with any of them.

weather

^^ But isn't possible that many RLX owner will also not pay sticker price?

buzzmag

Why guess? No I haven't. I haven't been able to find a local dealer with an RLX available. I'm ready to give up my 2006 RL for the RLX if the price is right.

Rocketsfan

But then this thread wouldn't work. God. Don't you know anything?!

Colin

How odd, as I understood it, every dealer has one or two. Where are you located?

Edward'TLS

One thing nice about buying German luxury vehicles is that buyers can custom order the various options they really want on their new luxury cars.

It is true that with the same options, an Audi/BMW/MB is $5K+ higher than the fully-loaded RLX. But the fact is that not many luxury car buyers arm their new cars to the teeth with options. Some want a base car with AWD, others want navi but not high-end sound system, and others want sport suspension but not AWD, etc., etc.

This is what Acura is losing out here : the lack of individual custom order options.

Vehicle options cost money, why force car buyers to pay extra money for some fancy options, that must be bundled together inside a package trim, they don't want/need in the 1st place ? It usually ends up with unhappy buyers, and also drives up the vehicle price tag unnecessarily.

In the end, a custom optioned Audi/BMW/MB will end up to be a couple thousand $ cheaper than the fully-loaded RLX, and as a result, the more expensive RLX will become less attractive to the luxury car buyers.

The reason I said this is because I had been through this vehicle option dilemma many years back. When the 2G RL first came out, it was available in one trim option, either fully-loaded or no car. I didn't want navi, sunroof, nor high-power sound system, but I wanted AWD, HID headlights, backup sensors, etc.

I bought a C6 A6 instead, because it ended up that my custom optioned A6 Quattro was almost $3K Cdn cheaper than the fully-loaded RL.

Thus, the lesson is that for apple to apple, the RLX may seems much cheaper. But in the reality, the RLX may actually cost more than those custom optioned A6/5/E's that are equipped with options buyers really need/want.

Shotgun

Good points Edward! I'm interested in the AWD Technology package version of the RLX and would like "some" of the options available from the Advanced version. Don't need the Krell system, Parking sensors (2 front/4 rear), Ventilated front seats, Heated rear seats, Rear seat foot light but do find the Adaptive Cruise Control (ACC) with Low-Speed Follow, Collision Mitigation Braking System (CMBS), Lane Keeping Assist System (LKAS), Auto-dimming side mirror, Expanded rear door sunshade, and Power operated rear window sunshade desirable - But most of all I want the "performance", whatever that'll be, of the SH-SH AWD RLX - but it better be very, very, good...

KeithL

True, those that don;t want many things will not like the Honda/Acura trim levels, but unless you want to order a car and wait a few months trying to ever find a MB/BMW optioned to your exact liking is usually tough. I looked several times and MB and BMW and every time I spent hours either on dealers web site or walking a lot and could never find a car equipped near what I want. Problem here is some basic things are single line items, Bluetooth, heated seats, HID lights, Sat Radio and on and on. Many people will "impulse" buy which is not to say they will not be rational, but to say when they want a car they want it, so they do not want to wait 2-4 months for an ordered car. Pretty much my issue right now. I was considering getting another M37 if I could find an M37 Sport with Technology, but they are rare and I do not want to order so I just postponed the purchase and will look at maybe an Audi or SH-AWD 4G (since they are such deals right now).

db22

Interesting. I maybe one of the few but I do not see buying a luxury car and have it optioned like a Ford Focus. A luxury car should have as many luxury items as price and technology can provide. I was attracted by the 05 RL because it had NO options and subsequent years cheapened the image by offering no Nav and plood etc.
As has been previously stated, there are plenty of BMW's out there without the luxury features that make it a luxury car but people drive it because it is perceived as one. If you really want a luxury car then get Advance, if you only want people to think that you have a luxury car then there are plenty of options.
I think that RL owners, in general, are enthusiasts who have done there homework and do not buy for the name but buy because of the car.
I think that the TL is for the group of people who want the features but do not appreciate the quality of the RL.
There are many who do not agree with my POV but that only helps make the RL a rarer car which is one of the reasons that I bought one. If there was one on every street corner then Acura would be happy but not one of them would be mine.

buzzmag

In Philadelphia suburbs and my dealer won't have one for two more weeks. The one they had was rear ended.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

This is also partly what drives up their costs as well. By limiting options to specific trim levels, you get greater efficiency from workers because they do not need to review an order sheet multiple times to confirm that they are installing only the ordered equipment on a particular vehicle as it goes down the assembly line. Instead, they will know that for a certain batch of vehicles, every vehicle is going to have exactly the same equipment installed.

While some may find the experience of ordering a car tailored to their specific tastes to be a luxury experience, I suspect that the majority of buyers, especially in our current culture of instant gratification, are looking for something that a dealer will have in inventory. Many buyers will use the lack of certain features or options or the presence of extraneous features or options as a bargaining chip when negotiating the price of the car. My guess is that there is a very limited number of mid-size or even full-size luxury car owner spending less that $100k on a car that are custom ordering their vehicles.

db22

So a base 5 series with no options is a German luxury vehicle? If yes then it must be the badge, if no then it must be the options.

g37guy01

Sorry, no matter how you twist it BMW is a manufacturer of near luxury to luxury vehicles.

So in your thinking the rlx with leatherette is a badge buy also?

Can you define a badge buyer without sounding condescending or jealous?

db22

Yes - an RLX without luxury amenities is not a luxury car nor is a BMW.

Yes - a badge buyer puts his ego before his brain and jealousy could only be considered if the RLX was for sale or if I even wanted a BMW.
Most people who bought an RL new, probably considered the BMW but moved in the Acura direction mainly because you get more luxury for less money and you can drive it instead of look at it in the shop. Initial cost is higher and reliability of a BMW is lower but the badge impresses. The only people who would buy a BMW are either buying it for the badge or (2%) buying it because of its driving attributes.

weather

While I agree with you and your post, I just want to add a small clarification. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think you meant "more luxury for less money" as in stating that there was more luxury items in the Acura than the BMW....but it was a matter os speech in that you get as much Luxury but for cheaper ... which I know many people the expression "getting more for less" when its rather "get as much for less" which is financially positive for the buyer as you have extra money for buying your own coffee and not have to visit the dealership to get their free coffee in their waiting room *lol*

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

Buzzmag, no I'm not assuming you paid sticker price for your 2013 MB E350. I'd surprised that you paid full price since the 2013 MB E Class is the pre-facelift model.

With that said, IMO, I don't really see the point of comparing prices after incentives. After all, depending on how well the RLX does, Acura dealers can also offer discounts.

I think Acura knows that, but as other mentioned, it's also difficult and costly to find the exact vehicle that you want with the right color combo and options. At least this time around, the RLX has quite a few trims

db22

Weather - You may be correct with your suggested semantics but I am not sure that the RLX Advance exceeds the 5 series or not in luxury but, as previously stated, it is getting very close in price.

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

I strongly agree with many of your points in this and other posts but totally disagree with the highlighted text. They're different cars, appealing to different demographics. And the 4G TL according to your previous posts was/is a better buy than the 2G RL.

Colin

Ouch! Well, I don't pretend to know the geography of your area, but these Pennsylvania dealers have a Tech Package on hand

MOTORWORLD ACURA (570)829-3500 KC1F5EKNW KA BV/SC
SMAIL ACURA (724)834-1160 KC1F5EKNW KA BV/SC
SUSSMAN ACURA (215)887-1800 KC1F5EKNW KA BV/SC
PIAZZA ACURA OF READING (610)796-1900 KC1F5EKNW KA BV/SC
SPITZER ACURA (724)941-9800 KC1F5EKNW KA BV/SC
BOBBY RAHAL ACURA (717)790-6000 KC1F5EKNW KA BX/GS
ACURA OF ERIE (814)868-8622 KC1F5EKNW KA BX/GS
APPLE ACURA (717)854-1800 KC1F5EKNW KA BX/GS
JONES ACURA (717)394-0711 KC1F5EKNW KA BX/GS
ACURA OF LIMERICK (610)495-5888 KC1F5EKNW KA SA/EN
LEHIGH VALLEY ACURA (610)967-6500 KC1F5EKNW KA SA/EN
PIAZZA ACURA OF READING (610)796-1900 KC1F5EKNW KA SA/EN
SPITZER ACURA (724)941-9800 KC1F5EKNW KA SB/GS
SMAIL ACURA (724)834-1160 KC1F5EKNW KA SB/GS
MOTORWORLD ACURA (570)829-3500 KC1F5EKNW KA SB/GS
SUSSMAN ACURA (215)887-1800 KC1F5EKNW KA SB/GS
JONES ACURA (717)394-0711 KC1F5EKNW KA WH/EN
MONTGOMERYVILLE ACURA (215)661-1880 KC1F5EKNW KA WH/EN
APPLE ACURA (717)854-1800 KC1F5EKNW KA WX/SC
ACURA OF ERIE (814)868-8622 KC1F5EKNW KA WX/SC

These dealers have Advance Package
MONTGOMERYVILLE ACURA (215)661-1880 KC1F9EKNW KA BV/SC
PIAZZA ACURA OF WEST CHESTER (610)399-9500 KC1F9EKNW KA SA/EN
PIAZZA ACURA OF ARDMORE (610)896-8600 KC1F9EKNW KA SA/EN
BAIERL ACURA (724)935-8100 KC1F9EKNW KA WX/SC
DAVIS ACURA (215)943-7000 KC1F9EKNW KA WX/SC

Hope this helps

g37guy01

So let's substitute RLX now that Acura is doing that same thing as BMW.

Someone who buys a stripper RLX rather than a loaded TL is feeding their ego because the badge impresses? The only people who would buy a stripper RLX is for the badge or the (2%) are buying it because of it's driving attributes.

Interesting thought process. I guess that is why BMW is doing extremely well. They have cornered the market on ego stroking buyers. Ok then. Maybe Acura needs to learn that fine art.

Edward'TLS

Not all luxury car buyers are loaded with cash. Most just want to hitch a ride into the luxury car arena, and pick a few of their favourite accessories and options. So they definitely won't mind waiting a couple of months with a custom ordered German car for thousands of $ less. Otherwise, they would have bought a fully-loaded German car directly off the dealer's storage lot.

I know a guy who's a manager in an Audi dealership. He has told me a dirty secret. He said Audi dealers tend to order nothing but fully-loaded new vehicles from the factory. This way, he would reap maximum profits from those "money no objective" buyers who must drive away an Audi the same day they came into the dealership.

However, he added, most smart buyers would do custom ordering and wait 2-3 months for their vehicles equipped with only the options they desire and for thousands of $ less.

So what will happen to all those leftover fully-loaded dealer-ordered vehicles ? They will be heavily discounted at the end of the model year. For those who are interest, this is the right time to buy bargain, fully-loaded German vehicles.

Just for the record. I placed my order for my Alabaster Silver 2012 TL back in March of 2011, and the car finally arrived in Sept of 2011. I waited a full six month for a standard-factory-trim car !!!

Edward'TLS

Not many luxury car buyers arm their custom-optioned vehicles to the teeth with options. Similarly, not many luxury car buyers buy bare-bone base vehicles either.

Most buyers will build their base vehicles up with accessories and options that they desire and that they don't mind paying for.

But whether it is the badge or the options that constitute a luxury vehicle, it doesn't matter. What matters is that the base-5-series-with-custom-options is a luxury-branded sedan with buyer-picked luxury options, that costs thousands of $ less than other fully-loaded competitors.

What matters is that luxury vehicle buyers aren't forced to have unnecessary/unwanted options being stuffed inside their mouths, and also aren't forced to pay extra and unnecessary money for them.


I fully understand Acura's standard-factory-trim product strategy. The point I want to make is that it doesn't seem fair when people start comparing the fully-loaded RLX with a custom-order equivalent-loaded German luxury sedan.

It is obvious that the fully-loaded RLX is cheaper that way. But most buyers don't custom-order their German luxury sedans in the same configuration as the fully-loaded RLX.

So when one starts comparing a custom-order German luxury sedan, that is built with more realistically picked options, with the fully-loaded RLX, the RLX will end up costing thousands of $ more.

NJ06RL

Don't want the RLX to die but I have heard that Hyundai is testing an AWD Genesis.

KeithL

Wish they were in Atlanta, there is not a single loaded A4 in Atlanta area, a few A4 S-line cars, but even those are missing an option or 2.

g37guy01

If it's decent it will steal sales. The question is how many. There is enough tech in the Genesis to satisfy most customers and it's gotten decent enough reviews. Although a loaded AWD Genesis for $45K might even make me give it a serious look.

jhr3uva90

The Genesis has the Hyundai name working against it. You have a generation of drivers that either: 1) doesn't trust Hyundai or 2) won't much money for a Hyundai brand name.

jhr3uva90

But don't Acura buyers buy Acuras precisely because they have lots of gadgets at a relatively cheaper price? I remember back in 2005 when I bought my current car. The 5-Series BMW charged extra for a sunroof, leather, etc. I was annoyed that BMW would dare charge extra for features that were standard in every Acura.

g37guy01

Every item that is standard you pay for. You pay for it in the base price.

weather

^^ I agree....That being said, there is also a premium for the "name". Before you pay for a single item in a car, there is already a cost for owning a BMW, a Rolls Royce or Mercedes (as there is for an Acura). The more prestige is associated with the name, the more the premium will be

jhr3uva90

True, which is probably the reason why the base price of an Acura is usually less than that of a similar German car.

037

picture the 2014 Genesis for 10k less than the RLX fully loaded with "base" 3.8 engine pushing 333hp and 291lb of torque and averaging give or take 18/28mpg. And AWD.



And....2016 might be the year of a 10 speed transmission and a V6 turbo...game on.

ichi d

^i like how they have the jewels eyes too like the rlx.