KeithL

OK, so I dropped by my Acura dealer and they had two RLX they just finished prepping. they had a white tech and silver advance, no secret which one I opted to drive. Because I have a good relationship with this dealer we took it on an extensive run for about 45 minutes then spent another 10-15 in the car.

First the looks, well I know I will get a ton of grief for this, but I don't dig the look. It is not bad, but the back reminds me of the outgoing Avalon. The front looks better in person than pictures, but very conservative. The interior is very well put together, fit and finish impeccable Acura. One weak spot, the legacy navigation look. Acura needs to step up their game with the navi, it looks dated and the screen resolution while good is not good enough for the bg screen, the lower touch screen is more pleasing to the eyes. The materials are very good, but wish the door materials had more padding. The wood inlays look like they could be real, but they also look like they could be fake. The seats are very comfortable and moderately supportive, but again the target here seems to be and older demo that wants a smoother softer ride. Again I may get grief for this, but while the interior is nice and materials top grade I feel my M37 feels more luxurious than the RLX. The cabin was huge, I almost thing the width is too wide, I am 6 foot and the front seats had tons of shoulder room, good leg room and head room.

How does it ride? Well it rides well, but I was disappointed in the ride, they clearly are following the BMW model of softening the bigger sedan rides. The car was very controlled and smooth as glad on most roads, but some bumps I expected to be soaked up more came right through into the cabin. Wind and road noise is as good or better than Lexus. 70MPH was lieke you were not even moving. The car rides very steady, but I would prefer the ride of the new Lexus GS over the RLX. I tried all the tech, the blind spot monitor was perfect, and the lane departure was good, but it only alerted whe I was virtually on or a tad over the lane marker. The adaptive cruise control was great, you set it and the gap and the car does the rest. I deliberately changed lanes to put a car right in front of me and the car flashed a warning sign in red saying BRAKE and you could feel the car control brake to widen the gap. Once the gap was ok the car would adjust speed smoothly up to your set speed (in 5MPH increments) and slow down as the gap got smaller.

What about the Krell? Well I am mixed. I brought several DVD-A/DVD music discs and none of them played. I know the DVD-A is not supported in the Krell, but I just left Audi and they played the MLP tracks fine on the A4 B&O. I find it confusing that ELS still supports DVD-A, but the $2K more Krell does not, seems a waste. So clearly a lot of my HD material will be useless. I did pop in a regular CD and have to say the Krell was crystal clear and powerful. I had been in a Lexus with M&L shortly before and I would say the Krell is better, but at least in my quick tests, not by a huge margin.

What do I think overall? Well for me, I don't see myself getting a RLX. Personally I would take a GS350 over the RLX, but I prefer Acura's build quality and tech. I can not stand Lexus mouse controller, really is too sensitive and jerky. Dealer did say there will be some incentive leases day one, but seems to be targeted to base car. I'd be curious to see what they do with the ride characteristics on the AWD when it comes it, but I can't see spending the $65-70K it will likely cost.

compewterbleu

Well, I didn't drive it so no comment on that so far. Looks, well it's much more attractive in real life then pictures. The field on what is luxury and what is a notch above is truly based on ones personal taste. I'm not an Infinit guy because I truly feel they pulled an Isuzu Impulse move by compromising on quality, reliability, and a few other areas for the wooo look at me affect with the M37. I actually don't even see many in my area or on the military post where I work. The new Lexus grille is polarizing and many are forgiving of the Predator look simply because it's a Toyota/Lexus product.

I see the lineup really being shaped a little differently then most. Smart vs all style, sort of like the San Antonio Spurs of the Luxury field. Is this good, time will tell. RLX, ILX, new MD coming and who knows what is in store for the TL and TSX.

KeithL

I think what we see now is the competitive landscape has gotten so tight that everyone is cutting costs. I remember when Lexus leather was to die for, still good, but I was recently in the new ES and GS and well you can feel the materials while good are not as fine as they used to be. They have to cram so much new tech in these cars to compete, yet make it affordable to the demo market. I can clearly see it in the M37, the weight/cost cutting, but I do not feel they compromised quality, the M has been super reliable other than some rattles early on. What annoys me about Infiniti is they cut costs in the quietness of the car. Wile not bad, at 50MPH the tire noise making it into the cabin is not acceptable in this class of car. I. Used to think it was the tires on the car, but I switch them out to different tires last year and just as bad. Also Infiniti tech is dated, I am curious to see how they step up the tech in the Q50.

JM2010 SH-AWD

You're right about cost-cutting. I rode in one of my partner's brand new Lexus today. Another partner has the identical car but several years older. The newer car rode well and was quiet, but the cheapening of the materials compared to the older Lexus was very, very obvious. No car maker is immune to it, but I think one of them could gain a competitive advantage by reversing this trend.

I'll have to say the RLX I saw at a recent autoshow had very nice materials in the interior. Leather was especially nice in feel and texture.

weather

KeithL....In an odd creepy way, I read your review and I felt that it described exactly what I expecting the car to be. I would really like to drive this car and fall in love with it but I think there are too many things at the moment that will prevent me from loving this car. Will I like it, most definitely.....Will I love it....most definitely not. I think this car is still too conservative and too big for me. I cannot get over the wood interior, and unlike most, I don't like the jewel eyes (better executed on the MDX prototype)...I also not a fan of the wheel pattern and can't see this car getting a bodykit. As others have said, I can not spend that much money on a car that I am not "gaga" over. I still park my TL and do a head turning as I walk away because I still love its styling (polarizing, but edgy and sporty).

So I think that the RLX will not be for me....I am starting to think that I will go with my recent idea of letting my TL and RDX go in 2 years, get an ILX as a daily driver and get the NSX as my "baby". I would also let go of my little Accent....so rather than having 3 cars and two of which stays in garage 75% of the time, I would leave the NSX for the nice sunny days and drive the hell out of the ILX. Hopefully by then, the rear suspension problem would be solved.

GoHawks

I guess my opinion is different. I can see how the new Lexus grille can be polarizing. It is in your face, kind of like when Audi came out with their open mouth grille, or even Cadillac, but with Acura the grille (beak) was just too gaudy. While they have subdued it a bit, I still am not a fan.

I have always thought that Lexus was a bit boring with their designs, but I like the aggressiveness of the n spindle grille.

KeithL

I agree, I love an aggressive look, that is why I keep going back to,try the new GS, hoping I will finally get into the mouse controller. I really wish there were a nice Ron Jon grill for the 12+ TL as I would find it easier getting a 13 TL SH-AWD for the next 1-2 years until we can see what Acura does with the TLX.

NJ06RL

OP:we may have driven the same car today. Silver Advance with Krell, Black interior ? At the dealership in Roswell on Alpharetta Hwy ? So here are my impressions ( though I did not take it on the hwy, just the back roads ).

Exterior looks: it does look better in person than in pics. I like the front but I don't really like the back end. I wish the rear would look sort of like the 2009-12 rear end which I like quite a lot. But I can see why someone who wants a nice ride would find this "inoffensive" styling. Best angle is the front 1/4 view I think with the jewel eyes in focus as well as the front fender line. I'm OK with the rims but I think they are a little too busy - just too many spokes. I would have preferred proper exhaust tips visible from the rear - no exhaust around the red reflectors near the bottom of the bumper at the back look a little weird - like something is missing. Trunk size looks to be materially larger than our 2006 and it has the hole into the main cabin for longer stuff like skis etc.. but it would have been nice to have a fold down back seat like some of the German competition.

Interior: pretty good. Nice leather, I like the two screens and I like the haptic response when I touch the center touchscreen. It's good that the center touchscreen controls a whole bunch of stuff using a tab like menu. The resolution of the main nav screen is decent but nowhere near the best I have seen in some of the current model top end Germans. But the main nav is now shrouded by being inset deeper into the dash with with a longer sun shade so that helps prevent the washed out look we get in our 2006 at certain angles. Visibility out of the cabin is pretty good. They did a good job with the rear leg room - materially better than my 2006 and it is comparable to our MDX. Feels like it would be very comfortable on a long road trip. Interesting touch that the rear seat occupants can control the rear sunshade. My 06 does not have that. And interesting that the rear window shades are in two separate pieces that deploy vertically and horizontally at the same time. Still a manual deployed shade like ours in the 2006 but the two separate pieces moving in different directions are pretty cool. I think being in the rear seat could be the best spot in the car.

Driving impressions: smooth, unflustered, almost like our non DI V6s in the KB4 design. Might have been a touch smoother than ours. I did not go WOT so I do not know what it would feel like when you push it hard but it just did not seem like the kind of car I wanted to push hard anyway. That is why I did not really experience the PAWS effect as well. The lane departure warning was quite effective and the BSI was OK but I guess anyone with an MDX Advance or TL advance would have the same BSI. Overall feeling is it was steady, smooth, no objections. I can see why an older person would like this as a daily driver. Or someone who is not necessarily concerned about the performance aspect of their vehicle and maybe they want something comfortable and nice to just get them to the country club or tennis lessons etc etc... You get the idea.

At an MSRP of 61 or 62k for the Krell/Advance, I would compare it with the Lexus GS350 RWD and possibly an LS460 RWD at the upper end. The problem I would have is the FWD architecture and I might prefer a GS350 F Sport RWD at about 60k despite the smaller back seat room in the GS. Vs an LS460 RWD without F sport package ( just comfort package) at about 76k, you can see why the RLX might look like good value as long as you do not mind FWD.

But would I give up my SH AWD 2006 which I have taken care of so well, pay 61k, get a larger vehicle with nicer and newer technology, a great back seat but only FWD ? Doubt so. I would gladly pay the MPG penalty of our older technology SH AWD differential to have a slightly smaller car that I can take to the mountains in winter anytime.

So the issue now is when the SH SH AWD RLX comes out in late summer, how will it stack up against my venerable old 2006, and the competition from the GS350 AWD or LS460 AWD.

There is a reason why I have two SH AWD cars in our garage. The PAWS RLX is nice for sure but it is probably not the right vehicle for me.

KeithL

Yup, Jackson Acura. I wish they have a silver on black TL AWD Advance I would scoop that up right now since they are almost $6K under MSRP.

NJ06RL

I'm sure they will be willing to find one for you. I would actually prefer a AWD Advance TL over the PAWS RLX after you factor in price just because I like SH AWD so much.

Glashub

KeithL as I read your review I thought that it could serve as a review for the Hyundai Genesis I own....based on 2009 architecture and tech. I'm not trying to provoke...the Genesis had all of tech you described in 2009 and has a Lexicon system instead of Krell...8 cyl, RWD...for under 40K.

As an aside going on 2 years and not one problem with the car.

Hoping TLX will bring me back to the Acura family but saw RLX in person...not a look I like.

terdonal

Nice honest reviews guys.

GoHawks

Guys, correct me if I am wrong, but I am not sure the initial reviews will bode very well for the RLX.

Usually if the followers of the brand (like people on this site who are Acura fans) are kind of.... meh about it, how is the the average customer going to view this car?

You know, the customers who don't care about SH-SH-AWD, or PAWS, or the fact that it has extensive use of aluminum (so did the RL along with a carbon fiber driveshaft) or a Krell audio system. The customers who really are only concerned with buying a premium brand and will only look at BMW, Mercedes and Lexus, regardless of the content.

These are customers who don't fully exploit the technology in cars. The ones who never pair their phone to the Bluetooth system and still drive around holding the phone to their ears, or are still carrying around their garage door openers because they don't know how to program their Homelink buttons. They don't care about Navtraffic.

Let's face it, people like us who truly get turned on to the details of a car are a minority. Most people are drawn by initial impressions and look (and brand image).

Given that, the RLX doesn't seem to elicit any of those things.

I'm afraid once again it will be relegated to a small cult following (like the previous RL) of people who appreciate the engineering and value.

We (wife and I) are an example. When we traded in my wife's 2004 Toyota Land Cruiser I was sure we would get an MDX. Went to the dealer and my wife just didn't like the styling. Specifically what turned her off was the wood trim and the dash layout. I was like, "Really? You're discounting the car completely because you don't like the wood trim?"

She fell in love with a 2010 Range Rover (because it was "pretty"), but that was WAY out of our budget. I also had nightmares when I considered the reliability implications.

We looked at A LOT of vehicles. She wasn't hung up on brand (maybe a little), but more on looks and style.

We landed on a BMW X5. Why? Because of the interior colors and layout of our particular car. We looked at other X5s with other color combinations and she wasn't interested. It had to be that color combination and I spent a week searching within a 300 mile radius looking for a white CPO model with Oyster interior and burlwood wood trim.

Ended up findng a 2011 with 31K miles last September (it technically went in service in June 2010).

It was purely an emotional thing for her. For others it will be the brand image, and for a few it will be about engineering and performance.

As an aside, the X5 is our first ever BMW and I will say I am impressed with it's handling. It handles better than some sports sedans I have driven. The Germans do beat to their own drummer with how they implement some of their features and technology, but so far I am impressed. She initially was non-committal about whether she liked it or not. She is usually not good with change and had become attached to her Land Cruiser after driving it for 9 years and 160K miles.

Well, not long ago she tells me she REALLY has grown to like the vehicle and could see getting another one when it comes time to replace this one.

It is fun to drive and I never thought I would say that about an SUV (BMW calls them Sports ACTIVITY Vehicles ). Bought the vehicle in September and have put on 7K miles and so far so good with no need to visit the dealer yet. Maintenance is free until 50K miles and it is warranted for another three years or 100K miles, so I haven't experienced BMW service costs yet, which could definitely affect my opinion. Then again, depending my experience I may dump it before the warranty expires if it acts up.

Back on topic. There should be a lot of buzz about the RLX, and I just don't see it outside of this forum.

Like you did when the NSX was introduced, or the Cadillac ATS. Heck, even the Accord seems to get more love

JonFo

Dang, I was just there on Thursday afternoon getting an oil change for my RL, and they were expecting the RLXs 'any minute'. So looks like I was a day early.

Oh well, plenty other visits to get to see it before the SH-SH-AWD arrives later in the year. That's the one I'm going for.

KeithL

They search nationally and none to be found, but I may have found one inbound to another dealer. Also I am struggling if I do the TL I always buy Silver, but something about Graphite Luster really highlights the chrome nicely on the car, I am pissed Acura cheaped out on the 1 refresh and ditched the chrome handles and the quad port exhaust, my gf's 11 TSX looks sharp when it is all cleaned up in Graphite Luster and the sharp chrome handles really pop.

KeithL

I came close to buying an 09 Genesis, I don't remember all that tech in the Genesis back then, the Lexicon was nice, but their Navi was DVD based. I am eager to see the 15 Genesis when they show in next January

KeithL

I believe those are the target demo because anyone that shops name plates is not going to even think about Acura. Acura has fallen from grace a long time ago. I honestly like Acura, but they have an identity crisis, they seem to have filled the value luxury niche as it takes more than one car to make them be considered in the same status of MB, BMW and Lexus. Infiniti is probably IMO the closest to competing with the big boys because they had true BMW competitors and to most had well styled cars. They kept a V8 and RWD in the lineup even though the M56 sells but a handful of cars. Acura will need to hit home runs with the RLX and TLX to even have a prayer at climbing back, otherwise they will be basically a value niche player that sells far more trucks than cars and even that they partially gave in and tossed SH-AWD on the RLX for basic AWD. They need something they stand for and are known for other than an ugly grille.

weather

^^^ As much as I like the look of the Genesis, if I am going to spend that kind of money, I want a brand name that is going to inspire luxury. I know Acura is not as good as Lexus and so on, but Acura still triggers more a "luxury" impression than a Hyundai. I am not trying to say that I am a brand snob but for me, it still means something. It is not everything because I am not prepared to spend 50K on a car that has poor reliability but when you combine a semi luxurious feel and great reliability, great handling and decent looks, that spells a winning combo for me. The reason why I love my 2012 TL so much. I am not going to lie though....I am worried about the 2014 TLX, in fact, I am very worried but time will tell. I am EAGER to see some spy pics and concepts because that will determine whether or not I stick with Acura or go Lexus GS or Infiniti Q50 (which at the moment, if I had to pick the one that gets me most interested, this is the one)

HeartTLs

iTrader: (5)

Keith did does the nav lock you out when the car is in motion and did you put the peddle to the floor? How did it feel?

Rocketsfan

They showed the new RLX on this week's Motorweek episode. It looked better on the show than it does in pics. It's still more than I want to spend on a car, so it didn't make much of a difference to me. lol. I'll still check it out at the local dealership, though.

Glashub

I have the Korean Genesis wings...can't tell you the number of people who think it's an Aston Martin sedan. People constantly turn and stare. It has all of the tech of the new TL and has the attributes Keith described. The only "luxury" Acura has over it is the dealerships but...as said...I haven't had to go back in nearly 2 years. Bought it, left and nver looked back. My 3 TL's all had extensive rattle problems. Good to have a good dealership then and Acura is. But prefer the pedestrian Genny and never having to go back.

New TL I hope is a heart throb cuz I miss the ride/handle mix.

Rocketsfan

The ATS got love because it's a good looking car with good performance - one where Cadillac basically said the BMW 3-series is our target and we're going for its throat. The automotive press said "oh, really? Bring it." Cadillac threw down a challenge to itself and in many circles beat the 3-series at its own game. Other said it's not quite a 3-series in performance, but it's damn close or the combination of its performance plus its interior plus the value beats the 3-series as an overall package. With Cadillac, the exterior was attractive enought to garner attention, then they backed it up with the performance.

Acura? Not sure sure what they're after or attempting to do. Seems more like "hey, here's another Acura. You think it looks like a Buick? OK. We're cool with that." But above all, the styling of the car has to be good to attract people in the first place, and I'm not sure the RLX does that. It's an "ok" design, but not a design that, at least to me, makes people say "wow. Ok, what else does it have?" Instead it's "funky headlights... but the rest is... meh". At least that was my initial impression.

KeithL

Honestly do not remember, but Acura nab traditionally has not locked you out. I did lean into the pedal a few times and the car did get up and go, but I did not feel like planted me in the seat, but that may be the design of the car or just tha I was so occupied with taking in everything in the car.

Colin

Nav locks out certain functions when in motion. I was able to use the "find nearest Acura dealer" voice command while underway. I took an order on one today. We've sold our next two months allocation (5-6 cars) of Tech package models.

NJ06RL

Maybe sacrilegious in this forum but I was just on the MBUSA website and optioned up a RWD E350 with most of the stuff in the Advance RLX except for Active Cruise Control ( which MB calls Distronic ). $62.7k. Then add in the possibility of a 7% discount for European Delivery if you're willing to make a European vacation out of buying the car. Hmmm, I think FWD PAWS RLX has a pricing problem ...

Also with the new design 2014 E class coming out about now, 2013 E350s will probably be available heavily discounted even without doing Euro Delivery ...

Not that I would buy an E class but the comps don't favor a FWD RLX at 61-62K, Krell or no Krell.

Colin

Not sacrilegious. With the added Distonic package it's ~65k and it still has 18" wheels. Whether this is enough of a gap is the critical question. IMO, there will be little cross shopping between Benz and Acura. (unless the real estate market collapses again, then all the realtors will come back...LOL)

KeithL

WOW Acura caved in to the rest, I liked not being locked out of nav while driving. Infiniti voice commands suck and they lock everything out once the car is rolling. Sorry to see Acura treat us like children.

KeithL

So what is Acura officially targeting as the demo and what do they expect to be cross shopped against if not MB, BMW and Lexus?

Colin

I'm not speaking for Acura (they did after all have a MB on hand for us to try), it's my opinion only. IMO, MB buyers haven't cross shopped us for years. I have friends there and generally, they come back car after car and just swap one lease for another. At least in our market.

Colin

This trend started with 2013 ILX and RDX. Unfortunately I don't know which EXACTLY are locked out, I simply can't remember.... sad

GoHawks

That's exactly my point. To be completely objective, CUE (Cadillac's answer to Ford's sync) has gotten some criticism and it will have to go through a few evolutions like BMW's iDrive, but overall Cadillac scored a winner with the ATS. They realized they don't have the street cred yet, so they set their sights on the benchmark in that class and went out and built a car that is as good or better. Not a lot of gimmicks. Good old fashioned techniques like putting the car on a diet, responsive engines (except for the base engine), top notch interior, interesting technology and a handsome exterior.

If they would have followed Acura's cue (no pun intended) they would have said, "yeah we know you all love the BMW, but that whole RWD thing is overrated. We're going to take this FWD Malibu, put some cool headlights on it, dress up the interior, add in a nice stereo and add some electric motors in the back. It might not handle quite like a 3 series, but we don't think you really need or want that".

I'm being overly cynical here, but I am trying to prove a point.

Again, go back to Cadillac when they introduced the second gen (current) CTS back in 2008. They knew they didn't have the street cred yet to go against BMW head to head, so what did they do? The CTS offered "near" 5 series size and content and depending on the engine size in the Beemer, near performance too for the price of a 3 series. That CTS generally got good reviews and still sold pretty well for 5 years until the ATS and XTS started cannibalizing it's sales.

Let's not even talk about the CTS-V that trounced an M5.

They gradually built up their credibility. The ATS was the next piece of the puzzle and now that it is considered a legitimate contender to the 3 series, the redesigned CTS due out later this year will unapologetically go after the 5 series.

Acura on the other hand gives me the impression that they feel that they know better and that they will show people what they should want. They may be right that people don't need RWD or a V8, but that's what people want, and in the end people buy what they want (or think they want), not what a manufacturer tells them what they should have.

Colin

^^ I'm certainly not as cynical as you are. I think that at some point we simply need to face facts. Acura (Honda) is not going to build a purpose built rear wheel drive chassis for this car. It simply doesn't fit in their business model. In some respects, Cadillac didn't even build the ATS chassis, isn't it borrowed from Opal? With a viable chassis in the corporate inventory, Cadillac was spared the expense of developing a low volume product From scratch.

Not having this luxury, and understanding how Honda works, it's easy to see why everything they've done revolves around an existing chassis. It's readily apparent that this car isn't going to be for everyone and I think Acura realizes that. It is my opinion that they are accepting of this and will take what ever sales they can get. I also believe that deep down they care more about the TLX then they do this vehicle. It simply makes more sense to focus on the American built TLX versus the Japan manufactured RLX. However, the RLX can serve as a technological showcase and "testbed" for other vehicles.

Colin

I would also like to add that (again IMO) Honda has a long history of "telling us what we want to own". For example, you could only buy an original Honda CRX in red, white and blue (later they added silver and black). Or, you can only buy and Integra GSR in a manual transmission or get an Accord with a four-cylinder engine (of course they later added a V6).

I would offer a hypothesis for discussion. Honda (and Acura) started a "downward spiral" when they started trying to please everybody. I remember at one point there were 23 versions of the Honda Accord. Each separated by a mere $200 for things like "with side airbags" and "without side airbags".

So here is the reason for my theory. When Honda "forced" people to buy the car a certain way it naturally excluded a lot of people. This left only the "true believers" in the brand. These people understood the finer nuances of a double wishbone suspension, a five speed manual transmission coupled with a 8000 RPM redline Integra GSR. The rest of the "masses" simply bought a big Honda accord for the same money.

In some respects, this was what led us to where we are today. You now had people owning and driving Hondas without really realizing how special they truly were. These people added to the sales volume and pushed Honda upwards through the late 90s, but they were no longer "true believers". They didn't "get" Honda-ness. They bought a Honda S2000s and then complained that there wasn't enough torque or that the racing inspired gearbox was "notchey".

Now, I'm not saying there is an answer for this, you cannot take a public company and say "let's go back to selling 200,000 cars a year to only 'true believers'". Maybe this "forced" front wheel drive RLX is a way of going back to "Honda-ness" without impacting volume?

jhr3uva90

How are we defining "downward spiral?" Acura's U.S. sales increased substantially in 2012 (up 27.2%). This is the largest increase of any premium/luxury brand in the USA. They outsell the more "prestigious" brands like Cadillac (whose sales decreased 9.2%) and Audi. Here is a link for details:

http://247wallst.com/2012/12/26/the-...rs-in-america/

That being said, I did drive the RLX today. I really liked it and it will be a top contender to replace the 2005 RL that I've had for 8 years. However, I don't think the RLX will be a major seller. It has nothing to do with FWD vs RWD because most car drivers don't know or care. It has little to do with the understated styling. It has EVERYTHING to do with brand perception. And at this point, I don't think there is any more room in the top tier. No super car will catapult Acura, Infiniti, Lincoln or any other second-tier brand into the ranks of BMW, Mercedes or Lexus.

jhr3uva90

Oh, and one more thing. They call the sticker price Manufacturer's SUGGESTED Retail Price for a reason. There's no way the RLX will sell at sticker. I humbly predict that by fall of 2014, you will be able to get a new RLX for about the same price as a used Lexus GS.

Colin

LOL, I don't need numbers. In fact, I've cited that there has been sales growth. I guess I'm referring to a downward spiral in "journalist love and enthusiast perception". Difficult to define/express I guess.

It's just my irritation that it seems like "everyone" hates Acura for being .... Well Acura ie. making FWD cars that work like RWD, repurposing Honda chassis' to save costs, and "dictating" what we should want. It's what they've always done but suddenly it's not "ok".

Pens Fan

I test drove an Advance model yesterday and agree it is an excellent vehicle-very quiet and luxurious. The only aspect it lacks is the snob appeal of an MB, BMW, or Lexus emblem on the grill.

KeithL

Well they sure are not showing that. The TL was their bread and butter car with the MDX and the 4G tanked and the 12 refresh fixed the major flaws, but they cheapened it by taking away any details that highlighted the AWD or higher packages, no more chrome handles, quad exhaust tips, etc. they relied on wheels to show the differences. I don't know what the take rate was on the 3G Type-S, but they car made a statement. I still enjoy looking at 4year old Type-S on the road. The current 4G sales are slipping into pitiful territory as is the TSX so if they were going to concentrate on them they should get them out now, show them in New York in April and get them on sale by August so the can compete with the Q50 and such. The 3G TL used to out sell the G, now a 7 year old G far outsells the TL.

GoHawks

I think your hypothesis has merit and I actually agree with your point here. Honda did have a cult following and there are people who truly appreciated (myself included) the engineering that the company put in their cars. Remember I stayed with the brand for over 19 years and most recently owned a 2006 RL. I loved that car and recently got into a debate in the BMW forums defending it.

Me personally.... I don't care that it's a FWD based car. I think the tech is pretty cool. The styling does NOTHING for me and if I am going to spend that kind of money, I want to at least REALLY like how it looks. As I said before it kind of looks "old man-ish".

As for Acura as well. It would be fine if they just came out and said, "fine, we are different, we will continue be geeks when it comes to engineering our cars knowing that we won't be for everyone".

But they don't. THey still give the impression that they want to compete with Lexus and the Germans.

Many of you are too young but do you remember their original tagline?

Precision Crafted Performance

As a matter of fact I think I still have a T-Shirt laying around with that from when I bought my first Acura (a 1993 Vigor).

Those three words said it all, but then they shoot themselves in the foot and introduce barely disuised Honda Civics as Acuras, or dumb down the AWD systems in the RDX to cater to the masses and they dilute the brand and send mixed messages.


See my previous comment. This is my point exactly. If Acura wants to be in the top-tier they are going to have to develop un-Honda-like cars.

That's OK if they don't or can't go there. Just stop trying to pretend like you are. Again, the dumbing down of the RDX, and barely disguised Civics are case-in-point.

I don't entirely agree with the comment that it has nothing to do with the understated styling. I do think if they would introduce a car that would turn some heads, at least they would get some attention and get people to give the car a chance. This RLX will only attract people who appreciate Honda for what they were. It will not bring new people to the brand, and that's what they are saying they want.

Listen, I have moved on. I don't own Acuras anymore, so why am I still here?

Because I drove Acuras for a LONG time. At one point I thought I would never leave the brand, and some day I hope to return. I really made my decision last year when the first pictures of the RLX came out. When the 2nd gen RL came out I fell in love with it. I had to have it.

No such emotion with the RLX and Cadillac got me to take a chance on them with the styling of the CTS coupe. See my point?

I'm just hoping Honda figures out what they want to be and sticks with it. Either be a brand that defines Precision Crafted Performance and be OK that it won't appeal to everyone, or make the leap and make a run to compete with the top tier, but this in-between stuff is killing the Acura brand. They have had a few recent sales successes with the MDX and TL (sales successes), but the TL has fallen out of favor due to their horrendous styling approach. as once a beautiful car and gave it that abortion of a beak. Yeah they've softened it a bit, but the damage was done.

I think in the end Acura has become a platform to introduce technology that will some day trickle down to the rest of the brand.

Maybe that's OK too.

NJ06RL

I think it is fair to say I am a pretty loyal Honda/Acura buyer. Prior to my current two Acuras ( both SH AWD !!!), I had a 2001 Prelude ( Neutron Blue ) and before that, I had an 89 Prelude ( Navajo Red ). I know what I like about Honda/Acura and it has been mostly about reliability and value. One of the reasons I came back to Honda products in 2001 ( and have stuck with Honda/Acura) is because BMW disappointed me due to constant unpredictable breakdowns in both my E36 3 series as well as my E34 5 series.

But for a flagship model, I think you need a bit of a wow factor and I expect a little more from the RLX. When a Honda Motor investor relations manager told me the RLX would come out as FWD first before the SH SH AWD ( that was nearly a year ago), I told him please be careful not to get lumped in with the Avalon. I think that is sort of what is happening now. I wonder whether the SH SH AWD will be able to recover from the perception issue of following its FWD brother later in the year. I hope it does, I want Acura to do well.

There was no such issue when the 2005 RL came out because it was SH AWD from the start and it had flagship technology in a flagship model. And the silly buyers then who did not buy it because of the lower torque than competitors allowed loyal and knowledgeable buyers like us to get the 2006 RL at pretty solid discounts.

Here is a typical reaction from my wife ( not a car person ) who uses our 2006 RL as her daily driver, and who sings its praises for being a "great car" that she will happily drive for a very long time; when I told her the RLX was coming out as FWD only to start, she went, "Oh how silly". This is due to the assurance we have in taking out either the RL or MDX in all kinds of weather and we know we will be safe, even in 3 or 4 inches of snow accumulation.

Now with the SH AWD ZDX in demise, it falls to the RLX to be the top of the line flagship for the Acura brand that we really like and it is just hard for those of us who have gotten used to SH AWD performance to be willing to look at a highly priced Avalon competitor ( despite all the other techno goodies) and go, "Wow".

And this is coming from someone who is a true Honda/Acura believer over the years.

Once again, I don't think the PAWS RLX is an unattractive product. It's just that where we are in our relationship with Honda/Acura over the years makes it hard for us to see the PAWS RLX as a suitable replacement for anything we have right now.